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didnt think the racial allegory was botched at all — the message seemed to be that anyone can be pushed into violent behavior if you torment, deceive and betray them enough. the inbred white racists tried to pretend they were “immune” but they flipped out when pushed into a corner too. the villain’s plan was to make the beastmen (read: oppressed lower classes) violently riot by revealing their religion is a lie. but they didnt succeed because even if the most recent representation of their savior was a lie, they still shared thousands of years of culture. theres a lot going on, and a lot to unpack, but i think the allegory only fails if you try to interpret the beastmen as a metaphor for a specific race, instead of all oppressed people everywhere
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Jul 5, 2020 18:32
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Xelkelvos posted:So wtf are humans then? explicitly inbred wealthy white people
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Jul 5, 2020 19:50
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Mokinokaro posted:Yeah this was a fairly middle of the road show. did you miss the scene on the train where they saw each others reflections and remembered how they used to be
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Jul 11, 2020 23:23
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Xelkelvos posted:I think the issue (and I felt the same too) is that it was just for a scene and there didn't seem to be any build up to Nazuna caring about Michiru again. human relationships dont have off/on switches, they wax and wane. nazuna and michiru never stopped caring about each other, and the moment on the train was them simultaneously deciding to get over their petty grievances in order to keep their friendship alive
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Jul 12, 2020 00:54
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i think thats missing the point. this show was pretty explicitly “about” not letting the wealthy and powerful trick the lower classes into killing each other. having an epic badass fight scene between two best friends would undermine that even if its resolved amicably. making their fight an emotional one that they reconcile through continued interaction is much healthier and sets them up as the characters that have the “cure” (love and personal connection) to “nirvasyl syndrome” (being driven insane by an actively antagonistic society)
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Jul 12, 2020 02:16
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Maxwell Adams posted:That seems like a real stretch to me. The action on-screen doesn't match with the themes you're talking about. Michiru and Nazuna didn't solve the syndrone together, they just got a blood sample for Michiru and took it to a lab. Also, the immediate solution was Ginro's soulful awoooo. yeah the message and themes are complicated, and there are multiple solutions to the conflict, which i think lends credence to the idea that its a metaphor for generational abuse from a ruling class. ginro is the spiritual core of the people and calmed their rage by reminding them of their perennial struggle and how they always overcome. michiru and nazuna are newcomers to the conflict so they arent truly affected by the machinations of the “humans” but they also arent really able to help the “beastmen” overcome their rage, other than by acting as an outlet for it, which harms both parties. theyre heralds of a new age, but change is slow.
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Jul 12, 2020 03:01
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Xelkelvos posted:I think I stand by the idea that BNA has no message or that any message that they tried to have more or less collapses as the series covers together at the end. i think thats absolutely incorrect and the message couldnt be more obvious, unless youre forcing yourself to read it as just a race allegory instead of a mix of race and class allegory
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Jul 12, 2020 18:20
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Pootybutt posted:I second this. If the beastmen started rioting out of anger for their opression at the system itself out of their own volition, I would've much preffered to see that happen then the evil humans' discriminatory fears against beastmen being actually based 100% in fact and they all just hulk out if you put them together for too long(which happened before they were being oppressed at all, which is why I don't buy the reading it's about being abused by the powerful. The show started out being about that before gradually overwriting itself into a big muddy hole) and Japanese Savior-kun's blood literally being the key to everything lol
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Jul 12, 2020 20:03
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based on the posts in this thread, if this show has a flaw its that it was somehow too subtle with its message, or that anime audiences are just completely unable to come to terms with a show that presents a narrative of unwinnable social imbalance, where the only victory that can be achieved is avoiding self-destruction. which is realistic and compelling. this isnt kill la kill or gurren lagann, where good must summon the strength to defeat an impossibly strong enemy outside of our traditional reality. this is a story where the enemy is ourself, and our need to classify our enemies as fundamentally different from ourselves. humans are just inbred beastmen. beastmen are just oppressed humans. the only difference is lived experience and superficialities.
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Jul 12, 2020 20:17
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Pootybutt posted:haha did you miss the part where that guy wasn't human at all it turned out? The opressed was the greatest opressor of all the whole time! yeah you completely missed the point. he was human. humans are just inbred beastmen. theyre generational wealth, so far detached from the poor rabble that they dont even perceive them as the same species. its not a liberal-minded superhero show where the day is saved through mutual understanding, its an honest and brutal look at how centuries of stratification based on class and race can lead to seemingly uncrossable societal divides, and it offers the barest glimpse of how to bridge those gaps, but it cant actually make the jump because, in real life, there is no clear solution. so it gives us the knowledge we need to find an answer, and leaves us searching. its powerful stuff. edit: and its not “everyone has the capacity for violence” as much as it is “those who provoke violence are far worse than those who commit it.” Oxxidation posted:I think that if your argument hinges on the idea that Studio Trigger knows how to do subtlety then you’ve lost before you’ve even begun its not subtle at all which is why im baffled so many people missed the point scary ghost dog fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Jul 12, 2020 |
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Jul 12, 2020 20:37
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ultimately i was really impressed with the narrative especially after kill la kill being about how uniforms are bad. it sounds like i really need to watch promare edit: ill agree that the social commentary and narrative arent totally fleshed out but i totally reject the idea that theyre contradictory, misguided, or harmful. this show flows with love and empathy, and utterly rejects violence and hatred of all kinds. scary ghost dog fucked around with this message at 22:34 on Jul 12, 2020 |
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Jul 12, 2020 21:20
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Xelkelvos posted:Any overarching commentary it has can't be contradictory or misguided if there isn't any. It definitely doesn't reject violence either so long as it's done by the heroes and doesn't involve killing. ok, sure, but “doesnt involve killing” is extremely important
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Jul 13, 2020 03:42
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Xelkelvos posted:In the same way Batman and Superman don't kill but still commit acts of violence when necessary more like how getting into fights and roughhousing, horseplay, is trivial and largely inconsequential, but to take a life is to cross the rubicon into a different world. you can compare it to batman and superman but i think its a pretty self-evident distinction
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Jul 13, 2020 15:14
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