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MagusofStars posted:>BUT what if A-H moves to Vienna to block, but Russia (anticipating that defense) attacks Budapest directly? Does that stop A-H's army from moving at all, so the end result is nobody moves at all? Or does the A-H army move into Vienna while Russia simultaneously claims Budapest, so the net result is A-H's army is in Vienna while Russia takes ownership of Budapest? Diplomacy doesn't really care that the nations are "hostile" or that there are two nations involved: no one is blocked so one army goes to Vienna and one army goes to Budapest no problem. It's an interesting set of moves. France is being belligerent to both England and Germany, which generally would not work out but in this case might with Russia's assistance. I'd read Germany supporting Russia in swe as Germany trying to assure the Tsar that they're totally on their side and absolutely not about to take all their stuff with all those eastern moves. The south is the most interesting right now. It'll be hard for Austria and Italy to actually get further into Turkey, they need to rotate fleets into Syria or Greece or convoy an army into Syria, and Turkey has enough fleet power to delay that for at least a year by supporting themselves into the eastern med or similar. Dislodging the Turks would take a lot of continued coordination and I would be extremely nervous about a stab were I Italy in this situation. [E: I guess if Italy intentionally abandons Greece for an Austrian fleet they can crack it pretty soon, but then Italy would need to intentionally abandon Greece.] Xerophyte fucked around with this message at 04:04 on Apr 1, 2020 |
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Apr 1, 2020 03:58
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MagusofStars posted:>If Russia attacks Vienna while A-H stays in Budapest, obviously Russia takes Vienna. Pretty straightforward.  MagusofStars posted:>If Russia decides to attack unoccupied Vienna while A-H moves into Vienna, the moves cancel each other out, no change in ownership. Also pretty straightforward.  MagusofStars posted:>BUT what if A-H moves to Vienna to block, but Russia (anticipating that defense) attacks Budapest directly? Does that stop A-H's army from moving at all, so the end result is nobody moves at all? Or does the A-H army move into Vienna while Russia simultaneously claims Budapest, so the net result is A-H's army is in Vienna while Russia takes ownership of Budapest?  The last one. It's like a game of musical chairs. But with foreign nations! It's a great way to gently caress with other players, whether they were enemies or allies who betrayed you. If you can, just putter around through openings they might leave in the event of an unorganized attack. It's petty, but hey, it's Diplomacy!
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Apr 1, 2020 05:14
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To be honest, the musical chairs aspect is incredibly frustrating. Sometimes, it makes it seem like this is a (repeated) game of chance. For 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, etc., it can be really clear how both sides can swap territory. Example is England+Germany vs Russia right now. - If England works with Germany, then Norway, Denmark, and BALTIC can work together to push back Sweden since Russia only has 2 defense (Sweden and BOT) - But this only works out if the attacking unit is Norway. If Norway supports, then St. Petersburg can cut the support. - As a result, the situation is either a stalemate (no change) or a dynamic stalemate (Russia gains Norway but loses Sweden). It gets really annoying for 3v2 and 4v3 scenarios. Despite the majority having the advantage, the minority can often create a local majority or make pushing into a guessing game.
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Apr 1, 2020 06:18
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Dr. Snark posted:
When I started talking with you and Austria I was figuring that we'd agree to a three way split. I was hopping to have an agreement that would put the three of us in relatively equal positions going into the second year, and see how the rest of the board looked. Obviously didn't happen, I'm not used to seeing Austria and Italy being friends, those adjacent supply centers and all... GuavaMoment posted:Turkey's gone full Turkey. Good luck! I'm just role playing the sick old man of Europe... 
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Apr 1, 2020 14:53
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Austria and Italy are both very commonly losing (out first, or second) powers, so they do ally a decent amount.
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Apr 1, 2020 17:39
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Fall 1902 Things are getting weird, folks!  We'll start with the Balkans, since that's where things first started getting real steamy.  Most of Austra-Hungary's moves are blocked. Notably, Turkey succeeds in backing up A-H's fleets from advancing up the Mediterranean despite Italy's support. Importantly for A-H, though, they hold onto Bulgaria and secure a new SC. Well done, A-H! Italy, meanwhile, holds onto Greece and also grabs the last minor nation on the board. Sorry, Tunis, you had to know your independence wouldn't last. A-H F Adr - Ion (failed) A Bud S Rum A Bul S Rum (support cut) F Ion - Aeg (failed) A Rum S Bul (support cut) Italy A Apu - Ven F Eas S Ion - Aeg A Gre S Bul F Tyn - Tun Ottoman Empire F Aeg S Con - Bul (support cut) A Con - Bul (failed) F Smy S Aeg Meanwhile, there's a whole bunch of weird stuff going on up north.  As I predicted, France and Britain continued to bounce of each other in the English Channel. Only it was 2 versus 2, instead of 1 versus 1. France's invasion of Germany is also stalled, as Germany blocks their entry into Munich stopped all following army movements, as Marseilles attempted to advance north as well. It looks as though France miscommunicated an order to Belgium though, as it supported a move that did not happen (Bur - Ruh). If Germany had attacked Belgium this turn, they would have taken it--though they would have also lost Munich and been facing down a more securely positioned France. UK F Lon - Eng (failed) F Nth S Lon - Eng F Nwy - Stp (nc) (failed--unit forced to retreat) A Wal - Yor France A Bel - S Bur - Ruh (could not comply with order) F Bre - Eng (failed) A Bur - Mun (failed) A Mar - Bur (failed) F Mid S Bre - Eng A Spa - Gas  Elsewhere, Russia finally realizes the dream of a conquered Scandinavia. But Germany is making moves directly into Russian territory. A German move into Warsaw is thwarted, but the Denmark army is convoyed into Livonia. Not sure what to make of it. Germany F Bal C Den - Lvn A Den - Lvn (via convoy) F Hol H A Ruh - Mun (failed) A Sil - War (failed) Russia F Bot S Swe A Gal - War (failed) F Sev - Rum (failed) A Stp - Nwy A Swe S Stp - Nwy  After reconciling the turns, you can see we had a lot of bounces in northern Europe. No gains for France or Germany, Russia retains Warsaw for the moment, and Britain loses its grip on Norway. I'll focus on that since we haven't seen a successful retreat move yet. The app highlights the force that must retreat and uses the Summer and Winter turns for that.  Like so! The Summer and Winter turns are also used for disbanding.  Like so! Lacking the supplies to support four discrete forces, Britain disbands their army in York. 
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Apr 2, 2020 05:21
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Wow, I really thought England and Germany would've worked together better. Belgium was a goner. England and Germany should have worked together to get rid of it since France has been threatening both of them. Temporarily losing the English Channel would've been acceptable since it isn't a supply center, and France would be forced to lose a unit. If necessary, with Germany's fleet, they would be able to 3v2 to get the English Channel back in 1903. I also thought they would've worked together vs Russia, but apparently, Germany wanted to attack alone. Livonia is a very threatening place to be in normally, but that move was mostly negated by Russia's new build. Well done to Turkey and Russia for their teamwork, and kudos to Italy for also gaining a supply center. For Italy + Austria to take out Turkey, they have to sail into syr. A 4v3 would guarantee Turkey's defeat, but the endeavor that could take quite some time to achieve. They could conga-line their ships in or cooperatively transport an army there instead. NeoRonTheNeuron fucked around with this message at 23:58 on Apr 2, 2020 |
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Apr 2, 2020 05:53
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So funny thing, I fried my laptop's keyboard. I have another device but looks like the next update is delayed. Hold tight! Things are still moving forward.
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Apr 3, 2020 15:38
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The LP Curse strikes yet again.
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Apr 3, 2020 18:20
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Maybe it's all a ruse. 
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Apr 3, 2020 20:34
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Lying? In Diplomacy?!
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Apr 3, 2020 20:47
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HisMajestyBOB posted:Maybe it's all a ruse. Truly the full Diplomacy experience.
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Apr 3, 2020 20:55
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I haven't played diplomacy in years but this is entertaining to watch.
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Apr 3, 2020 22:46
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Oh my god. Another turn has gone by. This is getting good. If all goes well I will have a work around to get at least one of the updates up tonight!
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Apr 4, 2020 01:28
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Spring 1903 Central Europe is where most of the action takes place this turn, so I will focus my attention there for this update.  The stalemate on the Western Front is broken--both ways. France sneaks into Ruhr, getting their foot into the door to potentially crack open Germany. However, Germany has occupied Belgium. Meanwhile, Germany and Austria-Hungary are now well positioned to take Warsaw from Russia. Hard to say which way things will go here, but it does not look good for Russia. Austria-Hungary F Adr - Alb A Bud S Rum A Bul H F Ion S Eas A Rum S Bud (support cut) A Vie - Gal Though stalled in the Balkans, A-H continues to maintain a relatively strong position. The continue to be peaceful with Italy, but are now making more aggressive moves towards Russia. UK F Lon - Eng F Nrg - Nat F Nth S Lon - Eng Still trapped, but some changes are happening here. Britain has managed to take the English Channel from France, but only because France has made a move up to the Irish Sea. Fortunately for England, they just moved their Norwegian Sea fleet to the North Atlantic. Liverpool may have at risk in the fall, but Britain can now easily block it. With France having lost their hold of Belgium, they stand to lose a unit. This could be Britain's opportunity to get a toe-hold in the continent. France A Bel - Ruh F Bre - Eng (failed) A Bur S Bel - Ruh A Gas H A Mar H F Mid - Iri As mentioned, France's move to the Irish Sea lost them the Channel this round. That said, they've broken through Germany's lines. Germany F Bal - Den F Hol - Bel A Lvn - Pru A Ruh - Mun A Sil S Vie - Gal Germany and A-H are now working together to close in on Russia in Warsaw. Germany's in a strong position to defend Russia's attacks, but France has broken through. They're in a precarious position here. Italy F Eas S Ion A Gre S Bul F Nap H F Tun S Ion A Ven H Italy is stalled, for the moment. Russia F Bot - Lvn A Gal - War A Mos S Bot - Lvn A Nwy H F Sev - Rum (failed) A Swe S Nwy Russia is secure in Scandinavia, but is set to lose an SC next turn if Germany and Austria-Hungary continue pursuing their attack. Russia's defenses are too currently too spread out to defend Warsaw. Ottoman Empire F Aeg S Con - Bul A Con - Bul (failed) F Smy S Aeg The Ottoman Empire, diminished to its starting territory, continues to stymie the combined efforts of Austria-Hungary and Italy, drawing out the stalemate. Still, they live to fight another day!  (The global chat is dead).
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Apr 4, 2020 05:58
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this season:  next season: 
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Apr 4, 2020 06:17
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oldskool posted:this season:
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Apr 4, 2020 06:22
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I'll try and have the latest update posted by tomorrow morning. On'screen keyboard is a nightmare. I have been doing the write-ups on my phone then sending them to myself to post on my laptop, hahaha.
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Apr 4, 2020 06:24
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The Triple Alliance is doing well! Italy and Austria did well to back off each other and are working well together. Even better, Germany is involved and the three of those powers are on the verge of something great. Turkey and England are going full defense, France loses a unit, and Russia's about to be split in half.
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Apr 4, 2020 06:42
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France have a lot of chances to get an SC back in the fall, depending on how they use Ruhr. I'd guess that the Germans probably wont support Munich in order to guarantee Warsaw, personally. I'd also not be super surprised to see Italy go for Trieste and Serbia, either as an actual stab if they think the Austrian fleet was one step too far or as a pre-arranged fakeout to get rid of the Austrian fleets if they're feeling very mutually trusting. There's still a lot of ways that nothing really shifts in the fall.
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Apr 4, 2020 08:49
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Yeah, France is not in a bad position quite yet because Ruhr is an incredibly threatening position. To me, Germany looks pretty screwed. At best, I expect a +2/-2 or +1/-1 supply center exchange because France and Russia hate them, and England is neutral at best. We're probably 1 day behind the action, but I'm not sure if the players really care to see our speculation/advice. What I see: - Austria and Italy wasted their time, failing to accomplish anything against Turkey. They should have convoyed ven to syr to basically guarantee taking a supply center from Turkey. - Austria moved the ADR fleet to alb. This seems pretty useless to me. If anything, it makes it even harder for them to get anything into syr. It just seems like it's trying to attack Greece. - Germany's pru unit is the only one that can take war due to support cutting. If they do this, they are likely to lose a supply center to France because of ruh. - England is actually in a great position to ally with Russia. Russia never built a fleet on North St. Petersburg, so Russia vs England is very unlikely. England has failed to cooperate with Germany every single season, and essentially lost Norway and failed to gain Belgium due to their lack of coordination. With Germany in a very weak position, England should work against them. - Due to Russia being on the backfoot vs Germany, they may be willing to allow England to take Denmark. Denmark cannot be defended. It'd be a great show of goodwill since the reverse (England letting Russia take Denmark) is unlikely. - France is doing well vs England. If England fails to get a build, they are likely to get invaded via convoyed army units. I would recommend a MID + IRI convoy setup; this allows the gas unit to be useful. England should try to block MID, but it's risky since that could expose ENG.
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Apr 4, 2020 13:51
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The hardest part about doing this as an LP is that I am chomping at the bit to analyze turns more, but don't for fear it'll give away my strategy. And given I made this an anonymous game and half the players decided not to reveal their identities, I am sure most if not all are keeping their cards close to their chest. When I am knocked out (if I win, I suppose it'll be an epilogue post), I plan to do an entire post on how I wheeled and dealed behind the scenes. Most of the excitement of Diplomacy, for me, is closing deals and setting up plans with other nations. Crazy stuff is being planned behind the scenes. Hopefully the other players will be willing to dish on the things they got up to as well when they get eliminated.
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Apr 4, 2020 15:40
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Fall 1903 Woof. Okay, lots is happening!  First off, UK has a great turn, considering their position. They defend Liverpool and seem to have sorted things out with Germany, allowing them to take Belgium. France has the Channel, but England is now in a better position and has an extra unit coming their way.  It's a different story for Germany. They pull off a solid bounce to try and block moves into the centre of their territory. It keeps Russia out. But it does mean that Munich doesn't have the defenses to stop a French advance, if they so chose--which they did. This wouldn't be so disastrous for Germany, if they took Warsaw as expected. But the expected move did not happen. Austria-Hungary cuts support, denying Germany the SC!  Munich falls back.  And Silesia's army gets burnt. Things look grim for the Kaiser.  Beneath Switzerland, we see the first conflict between France and Italy. However, Italy's movements for their Tunis fleet raise the question of whether they see Austria-Hungary or France as a bigger threat.  Italy also appears to have traded Greece for Serbia. If this is an attack, it'll be temporary for Italy. If a planned trade, the Ottoman Empire is in trouble next turn. Austria-Hungary F Alb - Gre A Bud - Vie A Bul S Rum (support cut) A Gal - Sil (failed) F Ion S Alb - Gre A Rum S Bul United Kingdom F Eng - Bel F Nat - Lvp (failed) F Nth S Eng - Bel France F Bre - Eng A Bur - Mun A Gas - Bre F Iri - Lvp (failed) A Mar - Pie (failed) A Ruh S Bur - Mun Germany F Bel - Hol F Den - Kie (failed) A Mun - Kie (failled--and retreated) A Pru - War (Failed) A Sil S Pru - War (support cut) Italy F Eas - Aeg (failed) A Gre - Ser F Nap S Ion F Tun - Tyn A Ven - Pie (failed) Russia F Lvn - Bal A Mos - Sev A Nwy H F Sev - Bla A Swe - Den (failed) A War H Ottoman Empire F Aeg S Con - Bul (support cut) A Con - Bul (failed) F Smy S Aeg 
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Apr 4, 2020 18:00
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Ooh, do we have the game's first backstab?
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Apr 4, 2020 18:21
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NeoRonTheNeuron posted:We're probably 1 day behind the action, but I'm not sure if the players really care to see our speculation/advice. Speaking only for myself, I love to see it! anilEhilated posted:Ooh, do we have the game's first backstab? 
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Apr 4, 2020 19:43
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anilEhilated posted:Ooh, do we have the game's first backstab? Not even close!! The first really overt one maybe? Like I say it's rrally hard posting these updates knowing that most of the action is quiet subterfuge that can't be revealed until later, if it comes out at all.
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Apr 4, 2020 20:05
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Do bear in mind that most backstabs involve not moving a unit to where you said they would go, or not going through with a different backstab that you totally promised that you'd do. Problem is that even now talking about some of that stuff could still tip off other people.
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Apr 4, 2020 20:55
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As a bare minimum, dash as england will have been talking to France, Russia and germany, on turn 1 he may have backstabbed Russia by making assurances of going for the channel instead of heading for scandinavia. A lot of betrayal won't be seen, and potentially never talked about here.
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Apr 4, 2020 21:20
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Pretty much. It is going against my LPer instinct to not post about every turn and plan I make so the thread can see my process. I AM keeping a record for later. I have also been mulling over ways to play future games where I don't have to worry about giving stuff away.
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Apr 4, 2020 21:21
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What happened: - Germany ended up going -1. Probably trusted Austria a bit too much. - Russia vs Austria is temporarily over. However, they will be competing over who takes Turkey, so there's still tension. - England made a pretty good move into Belgium. The lvp build gives them some options, but as expected losing the English Channel is going to make it rough for them this year. Things to consider: - France has great threat over bel and lon. Their fleet position sets them up ideally for convoy or aggressive retreats. That is, if their fleets get displaced, they can slide aggressively into wal and lon, which is just incredibly frustrating. They need to pacify Italy to get a good year, though I'm not sure what they have to offer. - Even if things look tough for England, they can return the favor by slipping into France's backline. Aiming for MID -> por could work well, especially if France's mar troop bounces with Italy. - Germany is set to lose den to Russia and needs to make some deals to hang on to this game. - Turkey is also super screwed now that Russia is positioned to slip into ank and Austria + Italy shuffled their troops into a 4v3 position. They also need to come up with a good story, fast. - Austria and Italy did an interesting troop shuffle. I'd say their trust is high if they managed to pull something so twisted off. Mixing your units together is one way to enforce trust; stabs are harder to pull off and would lead to an incredible amount of infighting. They're now pretty set to claim AEG and corner Turkey. - Italy as-is has a ton of spare troops. Now that France has overextended, it's a great time to make them pay. tun->TYN didn't really help with that, but Italy can freely sail into TYN and GOL this year while also supporting ven->pie.
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Apr 4, 2020 21:41
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I guess it really is hard to tell; still, I imagine the Warsaw situation will have some pretty harsh repercussions as the stab is out there for all to see. I really appreciate the explanations and speculations in the thread, by the way - having never played the game myself, just deciphering the moves and threats is complicated enough even without taking alliances and betrayals into account. anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 22:48 on Apr 4, 2020 |
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Apr 4, 2020 22:20
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Used to play this in high school, ~20 years ago, probably logged abt 100 games- we would name each game after a historical or news figure afterwards, and the one I remember most clearly is Linda Tripp, in which Russia won by hiding a tape recorder in a walk-in closet we used for conferences it's way too stressful for me to play these days, lol, I've had a copy of Diplomacy for a long time that's been used like once or twice- but it's rly fun to watch! e: in my old group, A-H lost the most, France won the most. We'd just almost always crush Austria regardless of who was running it
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Apr 4, 2020 22:45
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Peanut Butler posted:Used to play this in high school, ~20 years ago, probably logged abt 100 games- we would name each game after a historical or news figure afterwards, and the one I remember most clearly is Linda Tripp, in which Russia won by hiding a tape recorder in a walk-in closet we used for conferences Russia staying true to "lie to everyone but the gm"
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Apr 4, 2020 23:16
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Peanut Butler posted:Used to play this in high school, ~20 years ago, probably logged abt 100 games- we would name each game after a historical or news figure afterwards, and the one I remember most clearly is Linda Tripp, in which Russia won by hiding a tape recorder in a walk-in closet we used for conferences ahahahahaha what?! How did you guys find out about the recording? Or did they reveal it as part of their negotiations?
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Apr 5, 2020 00:58
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Man, France looks like they're going pure gunboat. I'm surprised it's working out so well for them, but now they're at a local disadvantage versus everyone they're trying to fight except maybe the very fleet-heavy Germans which should be a little scary. Actively poking Italy in addition to England and Germany especially seems like it's tempting fate. I'm hoping that particular move was an arranged bounce, rather than a request to have Iberia and Marseilles eaten at Italy's earliest convenience. Of course, so far no one in the northern foursome seems to have managed to coordinate much, at least overtly, and if that continues I guess maximizing your opportunities for gain and rolling as many dice as you can is the best plan available. Turkey's neighbors can take 2 SCs guaranteed by next fall, unless I miss my guess. Turkey really need to convince [a neighbor] that [a neighbor] would clearly be much better off with Turkey alive as protection from the inevitable stab by [a different neighbor]. That is probably true for someone, and yet still a very difficult sell. Good luck!
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Apr 5, 2020 03:37
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oldskool posted:this season:
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Apr 5, 2020 16:28
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Bellmaker posted:ahahahahaha what?! How did you guys find out about the recording? Or did they reveal it as part of their negotiations? lol the latter, Turkey knew for half the game we debated and put to a vote if the tape recorder move should be legal or banned for our games; it was like a 5-2 for legal
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Apr 6, 2020 12:41
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Spring 1904  Up north, the conflict between France and England continues. England maintains its purchase on the continent and France gets to stay in the Channel. However, both countries have put a knife to each other's throat in another way. France is now in Wales and England is in the Mid Atlantic. Defense on the British Isles will be difficult for England, and France meanwhile has left Portugal undefended.  And in more bad news for France, Italy is making a move westward. Marseilles is at risk; if Italy wants it, they can take it next turn.  Germany is in dire straits. While they successfully held Kiel from France, Russia has swooped in behind and taken Denmark from them. Meanwhile, Austria-Hungary inches closer north. Germany is on its way to being eaten alive.  And lastly, the Brawl in the Balkans is really heating up! Russia has occupied Romania, the Ottoman Empire has occupied Bulgaria, Italy has occupied Smyrna, and Austria-Hungary has been forced to retreat and chose to fall back into Serbia. The game board has been set up for a lot of countries to change hands in the next fall turn. It remains to be seen who can hold onto what. Austria-Hungary A Bul - Con (failed--retreated to Serbia) A Gal S Rum (support cut) F Gre - Aeg F Ion S Gre - Aeg A Rum S Bul (failed, support cut--retreated to Ukraine) A Vie - Boh United Kingdom F Bel S Hol F Lvp - Iri F Nat - Mid F Nth - Lon France A Bre - Pic F Eng S Ruh - Bel F Iri - Wal A Mar H A Mun - Kie (failed) A Ruh - Bel (failed) Germany A Ber S Den - Kie F Den - Kie F Hol S Bel A Pru - Sil Italy F Eas - Smy F Nap - Tyn A Ser - Alb F Tyn - Gol A Ven - Pie Russia F Bal - Den F Bla S Sev - Rum A Nwy H A Sev - Rum A Swe S Bal - Den A War - Gal Ottoman Empire F Aeg - Bul (south coast) A Con S Aeg - Bul (south coast) F Smy - Syr 
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Apr 6, 2020 14:45
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I was really hoping for that beautiful F smy - syr, but I'm glad Turkey went for Bulgaria instead of do what I would've done and hunkered down with F AEG - con, A con - ank. Italy and Austria went really high-risk by both moving out of Greece and not having Serbia support something, and they're going to pay for it. The north and west remains an unpredictable shambles, and I'm guessing Russia wishes they didn't have so many armies there. Moving the fleet rather than the army makes me wonder if they plan to try to convoy from Norway to England next spring, which seems like dedicating a lot of stuff to opening a brand new front given their position on rest of the board.
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Apr 6, 2020 15:33
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I usually feel like moving to Syria as Italy is a mistake. Convoying an army even more so. It's because your units end up so far away from mainland Italy that Austria will be tempted to backstab you, and if they do there isn't much you can do about it. Italy has to remove a unit and I'd think real hard about disbanding the fleet in Syria to instead focus on the France feeding frenzy.
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Apr 6, 2020 15:53
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