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Dixville
Nov 4, 2008

Your Best Paw Forward

Ham Wrangler

PET FOODS!

It's a huge industry with over 30 billion dollars in sales in the US annually and rising year by year. We got pets and we gotta feed 'em!

As you can imagine, there are many different companies and even more different products out there, from specialized prescription foods that actually treat illnesses, to Old Roy.

So, what food should you buy? Who should you ask? Are veterinarians just bought off by the food companies so you can't trust them? Does a pet store sales person have a degree in nutrition?

The simple answer is the best food is the one your personal pet does best on. You also need to be able to afford it. There are companies nowadays making individually shipped products that are made of only human grade ingredients that might be a better diet than what you yourself eat. Can everyone afford that kind of diet? Nope! Should you still own a pet if you can't feed them home cooked kangaroo every day? Yep!

The answer to what product to choose can be overwhelming.

There is an excellent guide to selecting a pet food written by Tufts Veterinary School:
https://vetnutrition.tufts.edu/2019/12/pet-food-decisions-how-do-you-pick-your-pets-food/

It's so good that I don't think I could say it any better, so I'll quote the majority of it here...

quote:

Common Mistakes in Selecting Pet Food

Do you do base your decision on any of the following?

The ingredient list. Many pet owners select diets based on ingredients in the ingredient list that sound good to them, rather than on the diets that are most nutritious and made with the best nutritional expertise and quality control. Remember that pets need nutrients, not ingredients. You can learn more about information in the ingredient list that is helpful and what can cause more confusion from our past Petfoodology posts.

The most persuasive labels. Most of the information on the pet food label is marketing, rather than factual information. Just because diets contain ancient grains or superfoods doesn’t make them the best options for your pet.

Ratings websites. Current ratings websites base their ratings on marketing information (or myths), not on which diet has the best nutrition or quality.

Recommendations from the pet supply store: Your veterinarian can help you select the best food for your pet. Pet supply store employees may be promoting the food that has the highest profit margin, the store’s private label brand, or the ones with the best marketing, rather than what is really the best food for your pet.
If any of these are part of your decision-making process, you might be falling victim to pet food myths and misinformation and not really selecting the optimal diet.

Making Good Decisions for your Best Friend

You love your pet, you’re passionate about her nutrition, and want to feed her the best diet possible. What can you do to ensure you’re buying what is really the best food for her?

Talk to your veterinarian. In our study, veterinarians were the most common primary source for nutrition information and were also rated as the most important source. Not every veterinarian likes discussing nutrition as much as we do, so if it’s not your veterinarian’s favorite topic, schedule an appointment with a Board Certified Veterinary Nutritionist® (some will even do remote consultations with owners) .

Ask important questions about your pet food – most of the important factual information you need is not on the label, such as whether they employ qualified nutritionists or use rigorous quality control practices, but this information should be available from the manufacturer. Some of the important criteria from the World Small Animal Veterinary Association have been compiled in a tool from the Pet Nutrition Alliance (updated annually).

Be a skeptic about nutrition on the internet. The internet can be a tremendous resource but also can be an unreliable source of myths, misinformation, or even completely false information. Learn to be a more objective user of the internet, especially for pet nutrition topics. Researching the site’s author and sources of information, as well as discussing the information with your veterinarian can help you to avoid common pitfalls with nutrition on the internet.

The jist of it is - don't get caught up in marketing hype. Do your research. I recommend sticking with major well established pet food brands vs exotic or boutique foods that haven't been around as long, in general. Don't buy the cheapest thing you can get either. But don't just buy the expensive stuff thinking it MUST be good!

What about grain free?
There have been FDA reports of heart disease connected to grain free diets. It is not generally recommended to feed these diets right now. There is just too much we don't know about why this is happening. Here is more info:
https://www.fda.gov/animal-veterina...etween-diet-and

What about raw feeding?
I don't recommend this. There's just too much risk of contamination with microbes and there isn't really good science to back up its claims.

What about home cooking?
The truth is home cooking usually isn't worth the time or expense, but if you feel strongly that you want to do it, I recommend using balanceit.com or similar nutritional supplements. BalanceIt gives you recipes to add their supplement powders to. They should be well nutritionally balanced this way. Our nutritionist at school recommended it. You can always also consult with a Veterinary Nutritionist but this is pretty pricey so not that many people do it. It is the best, though, if your animal has multiple health issues that affect their diet (such as kidney disease and skin allergies).

I hope this thread is helpful and I would love to hear any brands that people stand behind or that you feel like your pet does so much better on this particular food.

Edit: for those who are interested in home cooking, or want to talk to someone with the most expertise possible about their pets diet, there are veterinary nutrition services out there. Most of them will work through your gp and you can get a referral to consult with them via phone and or email.

Some examples:
https://vetmed.tennessee.edu/vmc/SmallAnimalHospital/Nutrition/Pages/default.aspx
https://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/hospital/small-animal/nutrition

There's also this search tool on the American College of Veterinary Nutrition website
https://acvn.org/directory/

Dixville fucked around with this message at 19:50 on May 5, 2020

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Dixville
Nov 4, 2008

Your Best Paw Forward

Ham Wrangler

Stealing this from the old thread...


Transition Slowly - If your pet eats the same thing every day and you suddenly feed him something new, he's probably going to get diarrhea or barf everywhere. You need to make a gradual change. Decrease the amount of old food and increase the amount of new food (mix them together) over a period of at least a week. If your pet starts having softer stool, you're probably going too fast.

Don't feed "exotic" protein sourcesunless you have a good reason - A lot of brands offer "fancy" flavors of food like bison, venison, rabbit, duck, etc. Unless your pet has a food allergy or won't eat anything else, pick a normal flavor of food like chicken, turkey, beef, etc. Food allergies can develop at any time in a pet's life for no reason, and the best way to manage them is to feed a protein source that the pet has NEVER eaten before (a "novel protein"). If you feed your pet a bunch of weird protein sources like bison and kangaroo and rabbit, and then he develops food allergies a few years down the line, you're not going to have any good options for a novel protein.

mind the walrus
Sep 22, 2006



My roommate has been a veterinary technician for about half a decade and she swears by Hill's Science Diet. I can confirm that once I made the switch from your now-standard Blue Buffalo Wilderness Canine Dry Food I saw a marked increase in my pet's coat. She's remarkably more soft and plush, for a thirteen year-old no less. I can't speak to the wider nutrition, but it's still a step up from your average Pedigree/Purina One stuff.

I feed her the Small Paws Adult 11+. The cocker on the cover is a coincidence, I'm sure.





Ballz
Dec 16, 2003

it's mario time



Are we completely throwing out the "wet food vs. dry food" for cats debate that was in the old OP?

Boogalo
Jul 8, 2012

Meep Meep






Wet food is better for your cat (mostly due to moisture) but is also expensive so you're not a bad person if you feed high quality dry food that your cat likes. If you feed dry, try to have a fountain since that'll help your idiot drink more.

My delicate princess with IBS needs prescription selective protein no fish at all food and wet for a month would be $300 so she gets dry and its only $60/mo.

Boogalo fucked around with this message at 01:21 on Apr 21, 2020

Main Paineframe
Oct 27, 2010

( ḕ ω ḗ )✧

To throw my anecdotal experience into the mix, my dog used to be on a grain-free food, Acana Limited Ingredients.

Now he's on a prescription cardiac diet, after he went into congestive heart failure before age 5 due to severe DCM, which the cardiologist said is almost certainly caused by the grain-free food because it's extremely rare for this to happen this badly to a dog that's this young and doesn't have any particular aggravating factors.

Obviously this is just one anecdote, the FDA still says that the number of cases is still very small and that only a tiny percentage of dogs are likely affected, the link is neither clear nor conclusive, and so on. But even if the overall risk is low, the prognosis can be pretty lovely if your dog is one of the unlucky ones, so think twice about taking that bet unless your dog really needs to have specifically grain-free food.

Dixville
Nov 4, 2008

Your Best Paw Forward

Ham Wrangler

Boogalo posted:

Wet food is better for your cat (mostly due to moisture) but is also expensive so you're not a bad person if you feed high quality dry food that your cat likes. If you feed dry, try to have a fountain since that'll help your idiot drink more.

My delicate princess with IBS needs prescription selective protein no fish at all food and wet for a month would be $300 so she gets dry and its only $60/mo.

Yeah this is how I feel about it. Mix of wet and dry might be a good compromise too. I need to replace the fountain that broke it really did make a difference for water intake for my cat.

Yeah there are obviously some pretty big differences from the old thread. I'm open to any discussion on that and anything I may have left out. I decided not to do a list of "good and bad" brands just because that can change over time, companies buy each other out and whatnot so I felt it would be longer lasting advice to just say how to choose a diet in general vs listing certain brand names.

I know the old thread was really big on ingredients and recommended more meat vs corn soy etc, I stand by the advice from Tufts on that, some of these diets with corn and whatnot are from companies that thoroughly test their foods and have shown that they are good through scientific testing. The nutrient profiles are good even though you wouldn't necessarily feed your dog a plate of corn. It's not the same as that. I have no problem with people looking for meat based foods as long as they are still well tested and the ingredients are high in quality. Keep in mind that meat, if it's included in ingredients, will contain a proportionately higher amount of water than more processed ingredients so it will show up sooner on the ingredients list due to weight of the water as well. So labels can be a little misleading in that way.

Dixville
Nov 4, 2008

Your Best Paw Forward

Ham Wrangler

Main Paineframe posted:

To throw my anecdotal experience into the mix, my dog used to be on a grain-free food, Acana Limited Ingredients.

Now he's on a prescription cardiac diet, after he went into congestive heart failure before age 5 due to severe DCM, which the cardiologist said is almost certainly caused by the grain-free food because it's extremely rare for this to happen this badly to a dog that's this young and doesn't have any particular aggravating factors.

Obviously this is just one anecdote, the FDA still says that the number of cases is still very small and that only a tiny percentage of dogs are likely affected, the link is neither clear nor conclusive, and so on. But even if the overall risk is low, the prognosis can be pretty lovely if your dog is one of the unlucky ones, so think twice about taking that bet unless your dog really needs to have specifically grain-free food.
This is my feeling on it too. The other concern is how many dogs may be out there with subclinical heart disease that hasn't been diagnosed because the only way to see it would be xrays or echo.

Charles
May 9, 2004

zoom-zoom


Toilet Rascal

Asking someone where they live might be a good idea, if we have enough people in that area to recommend pet shops that carry good food. Here in Seattle it's pretty easy, but could be harder in Small Town, Iowa.

Boogalo
Jul 8, 2012

Meep Meep






Charles posted:

Asking someone where they live might be a good idea, if we have enough people in that area to recommend pet shops that carry good food. Here in Seattle it's pretty easy, but could be harder in Small Town, Iowa.

For anyone in the US, chewy.com is the champion. Orders over $50 ship free and they will fill prescription foods if you email them a picture of the script. They save me $20 a bag on my cats food and I just autoship it every 5 weeks for another couple% or so discount along with a refill of litter. You can also add whatever items you want to your next autoship as a one-time thing.

Charles
May 9, 2004

zoom-zoom


Toilet Rascal

Boogalo posted:

For anyone in the US, chewy.com is the champion. Orders over $50 ship free and they will fill prescription foods if you email them a picture of the script. They save me $20 a bag on my cats food and I just autoship it every 5 weeks for another couple% or so discount along with a refill of litter. You can also add whatever items you want to your next autoship as a one-time thing.

They sell poo poo like Meow Mix and Kibbles and Bits though
edit: I mean in addition to the good stuff. I like one of the local chains here in Seattle, Mud Bay, because their staff goes to nutrition courses and they only carry stuff that's good, so I can just pick a few things at random off the shelf and my dog is happy to have new stuff.

effika
Jun 19, 2005
Birds do not want you to know any more than you already do.

Would love some more cat stuff in the OP; the cheap-wet-food vs good-dry-food bit was enlightening from the old thread.

Also don't forget feed and grain stores for specialty pet food. We have some local ones that are happy to order pet food since it is an agricultural product.

Fluffy Bunnies
Jan 9, 2009

FUCK





Dixville posted:

What about grain free?
There have been FDA reports of heart disease connected to grain free diets. It is not generally recommended to feed these diets right now. There is just too much we don't know about why this is happening. Here is more info:
https://www.fda.gov/animal-veterina...etween-diet-and


We literally know exactly what's causing this and it isn't just grain-free diets; there are plenty of legume-heavy (vegan, for instance) diets that are coming up in this, too. The uptake of taurine is being blocked by large amounts of legumes in carnivore pet foods. The percentage of pets it effects is almost 0. The DCM you're referencing but for some reason not getting into here is literally based around the lack of taurine available to the dog/cat/fox.

Homemade is amazing. Raw is great. Kibble is fantastic for lots of dogs, too.

If anyone wants to talk about pet food from someone who has spent years researching it, worked with several pet food companies, and has worked elbow to elbow with vet nutritionists in creating specialized food plans for animals in zoos, at home, and everywhere in between, feel free to PM me. I will talk animal food all day long.

E: If your pet's food is leaving much to be desired, speak to veterinary nutritionists who devote their lives to what goes into your pet not general practice vets. They aren't hard to find and almost all of them take phone calls for simple questions like "what value does pork kidney have for my dog?" and will work remotely with you. Your GP vet may be the one pulling the blood and sending information to the nutritionist, but your GP vet does not get the depth of education in this field that the specialist vet does. I'm also happy to direct people to them, so just hit me up if you need it.

Fluffy Bunnies fucked around with this message at 05:14 on Apr 22, 2020

Snowy
Oct 6, 2010

A man whose blood
Is very snow-broth;
One who never feels
The wanton stings and
Motions of the sense






effika posted:

Would love some more cat stuff in the OP; the cheap-wet-food vs good-dry-food bit was enlightening from the old thread.

Yeah I could use more of that 🐈

Dixville
Nov 4, 2008

Your Best Paw Forward

Ham Wrangler

Fluffy Bunnies posted:

We literally know exactly what's causing this and it isn't just grain-free diets; there are plenty of legume-heavy (vegan, for instance) diets that are coming up in this, too. The uptake of taurine is being blocked by large amounts of legumes in carnivore pet foods. The percentage of pets it effects is almost 0. The DCM you're referencing but for some reason not getting into here is literally based around the lack of taurine available to the dog/cat/fox.

Homemade is amazing. Raw is great. Kibble is fantastic for lots of dogs, too.

If anyone wants to talk about pet food from someone who has spent years researching it, worked with several pet food companies, and has worked elbow to elbow with vet nutritionists in creating specialized food plans for animals in zoos, at home, and everywhere in between, feel free to PM me. I will talk animal food all day long.

E: If your pet's food is leaving much to be desired, speak to veterinary nutritionists who devote their lives to what goes into your pet not general practice vets. They aren't hard to find and almost all of them take phone calls for simple questions like "what value does pork kidney have for my dog?" and will work remotely with you. Your GP vet may be the one pulling the blood and sending information to the nutritionist, but your GP vet does not get the depth of education in this field that the specialist vet does. I'm also happy to direct people to them, so just hit me up if you need it.

That's a good point and I'd be happy to add nutritionist info to the op. I'll add some of the nutrition services I'm familiar with.

jimmychoo
Sep 30, 2008

creepin n rollin



Has anyone tried one of these fancy new subscription meal services? my cat's eaten the same food his entire life (s/o to the pet nutrition thread 10 years ago) but these seem p drat convenient.
he still eats his food with gusto but i wonder if he'd like a change

Grantaire
Jul 16, 2009

oh what a world


I haven't been in this forum since it was PI, but I based my cat food choices on the pet food threads (Wellness Core Indoor dry) and now that one of my elderly kitties is starting to deal with some kidney disease I was hoping to mine your resources again. The vet is recommending Hill's or Royal Canin, which I'm not dismissing out of hand, but I remember vets explicitly saying Hill's at least pays clinics to promote them, so I want to get some other opinions before I pull the trigger on anything.

Basically just doing Food For Old Cat Kidneys research, but every website I go to seems to be based on ads and I'd appreciate insight. I know poo poo's changed over the years and I'm completely open to being corrected and pointed in the right direction.

Also here's Dixie because she's a supermodel and it's disgusting

MikeyTsi
Jan 10, 2009



Grantaire posted:

I haven't been in this forum since it was PI, but I based my cat food choices on the pet food threads (Wellness Core Indoor dry) and now that one of my elderly kitties is starting to deal with some kidney disease I was hoping to mine your resources again. The vet is recommending Hill's or Royal Canin, which I'm not dismissing out of hand, but I remember vets explicitly saying Hill's at least pays clinics to promote them, so I want to get some other opinions before I pull the trigger on anything.

Basically just doing Food For Old Cat Kidneys research, but every website I go to seems to be based on ads and I'd appreciate insight. I know poo poo's changed over the years and I'm completely open to being corrected and pointed in the right direction.

Also here's Dixie because she's a supermodel and it's disgusting



I fed my CKD cat Farmina Renal.

I. M. Gei
Jun 26, 2005
Probation
Can't post for 19 days!


Crossposting from the Foster/Rescue Megathread:

I. M. Gei posted:

I just fed them for the first time since todayís vet visit, and Kelly still doesnít want to eat much. It seems she isnít going for the Nutri-Cal.

Also now Kenan is doing the exact same poo poo. He was inhaling entire bottles of food at every feeding before. Now he wonít eat more than about 1 tablespoon, same as Kelly.

So it looks like whatever is wrong with Kelly is spreading.

I can think of two possibilities for whatís going on:
1. Both kittens ate some kitty litter and have an intestinal blockage (the litter in their box is unscented paper litter, though thereís a little bit of the clay stuff on the floor that spilled out from their previous box)
2. They have some sort of spreadable illness or parasite

Iím wondering if either of these things might mean I need to take both of them to the vet before Monday. Or if something else is going on.


EDIT: wait...... could this be a sign that I should start giving them food in bowls?

These kittens are right around 4.5 to 5 weeks old now.

I donít know how much yíall know about kittens, but could this refusal-to-eat business be a sign that my kittensí digestive systems are switching from Formula Mode to Meat Mode, so I need to start giving them less milk replacer and more wet food?

Slugworth
Feb 18, 2001

If two grown men can't make a pervert happy for a few minutes in order to watch a film about zombies, then maybe we should all just move to Iran!


Grantaire posted:

I haven't been in this forum since it was PI, but I based my cat food choices on the pet food threads (Wellness Core Indoor dry) and now that one of my elderly kitties is starting to deal with some kidney disease I was hoping to mine your resources again. The vet is recommending Hill's or Royal Canin, which I'm not dismissing out of hand, but I remember vets explicitly saying Hill's at least pays clinics to promote them
Just for reference, nobody is like, getting a check from Royal Canin for promoting them. It'd be fair to argue that Hills and Royal Canin have the ear of veterinarians more so than other companies, due to their sponsoring of Continuing Education, the occasional food rep stopping by with lunch for the clinic, etc, but your veterinarian isn't meeting in a shady alley and getting paid to shill food they don't believe in. Vet clinics recommend those brands because we are familiar with them, and we've seen them work well for our patients, and frequently for our own animals.

I've got a dog on RC's hypoallergenic diet and one on Urinary SO and the foods have been absolute life changers for both of them. My allergy dog was a patient of ours who for 9 years came to us over and over for horrible skin infections, thick, reddened skin, oozing sores, constant ear infections. We would treat the infection, and try to convince the owner to switch to a hypoallergenic diet, and she never did, despite occasionally buying some. The owner passed away, I ended up adopting her, treating her infections (ear and skin) and putting her on RC HP. 2 years in, and she hasn't had a single flare up. Skin and coat are beautiful, no ear infections, and her weight is perfect. So when I recommend RC, there's no nefarious motives, just good experience.

That being said, any vet who is resistant to you doing your own research and looking at other options is being close minded. Those diets aren't magical, and if you do your research and choose a science-based option for your pet that works, awesome! It just bums me out to see people suspicious of their vet's motives.

Boogalo
Jul 8, 2012

Meep Meep






My vet is definitely getting a check from royal canin considering they charge $20 more than chewy for the same bag of cat food. That said, getting on a proper prescription diet made a world of difference for my farty cat with IBS and a fish allergy.

Slugworth
Feb 18, 2001

If two grown men can't make a pervert happy for a few minutes in order to watch a film about zombies, then maybe we should all just move to Iran!


Boogalo posted:

My vet is definitely getting a check from royal canin considering they charge $20 more than chewy for the same bag of cat food. That said, getting on a proper prescription diet made a world of difference for my farty cat with IBS and a fish allergy.
Or, your vet doesn't buy in the same bulk as chewy and doesn't get the same discounts. Or your vet *does* overcharge on food and prescriptions in order to help with overhead costs, the same as any business might. (Your mechanic is not gonna be the cheapest place to buy parts, for example).

Grantaire
Jul 16, 2009

oh what a world


Whatever the case, I ended up going with RC and Dixie is obsessed with it, so it feels like the right call! I hope it helps her put on some weight.

TenementFunster
Feb 20, 2003

delinquent


is there a consensus about the best dry cat food that isn't a zillion dollars (say, under ~$30 for a 10lb bag) and available at kroger/target/etc? my tabby has had everything from meow mix to science diet, and seemed happiest/healthiest with Nutro's recently-discontinued Max Cat. i got some Iam's for the time being, which he seems to enjoy and doesn't make his shits smell too awful, but have no idea. it seems like all the internet reviews any cat food are either obviously Sponsored Content or will make my cat drop dead.

anyway, i don't want to spend $40 a bag or have to drive all the way to hang out with the freaks who work at petco unless it's going to be objectively better for a cat that will happily house a bowl of meow mix

Freakbox
Dec 22, 2009

Tasted Too Much Rainbow!!!


Hey there thread- I feel less scared asking questions in a shiny new place.

I'd like some advice on switching dry foods for my 50 pound, 3 year old pibble/greyhound mix. He's been eating a lesser known brand called meridian but it's grain free and I just learned about all this scary stuff. So I've been browsing.

Nutro "Ultra" is grain inclusive but wheat free and looks good? Here's a picture of what he's eating now (and their "statement" on DCM and grain free diets) compared to what I was looking at.

Current Food:




Contender:


Thank you so much for any Advice; there's lot of conflicting stuff out there!

Bonus- say hi to Bucky. He wants your food. All of it.

Freakbox fucked around with this message at 04:38 on May 29, 2020

Buff Hardback
Jun 11, 2019



TenementFunster posted:

is there a consensus about the best dry cat food that isn't a zillion dollars (say, under ~$30 for a 10lb bag) and available at kroger/target/etc? my tabby has had everything from meow mix to science diet, and seemed happiest/healthiest with Nutro's recently-discontinued Max Cat. i got some Iam's for the time being, which he seems to enjoy and doesn't make his shits smell too awful, but have no idea. it seems like all the internet reviews any cat food are either obviously Sponsored Content or will make my cat drop dead.

anyway, i don't want to spend $40 a bag or have to drive all the way to hang out with the freaks who work at petco unless it's going to be objectively better for a cat that will happily house a bowl of meow mix

so a couple things: Chewy is a goddamn miracle and i always laugh when i make petsmart employees price match against chewy

Two, there's nothing really that stands out from the pack in terms of pet food at grocery stores. I've been using Instinct by Nature's Variety for Artemis for about 9 months now (either their regular kibble in chicken, their raw boost [kibble plus freeze dried pieces] in chicken, and switching it up to salmon next month), and it's worked out very well for her. Her coat is super soft and silky, she's svelte and in her perfect weight.

Hutla
Jun 5, 2004

It's mechanical

I buy the Costco brand salmon ($30 for 18 lbs) and it's rebranded Taste of the Wild. Plus they deliver it for no extra money.

AnonymousNarcotics
Aug 6, 2012

we will go far into the sea
you will take me
onto your back
never look back
never look back


I applied to adopt a cat from this rescue, and they asked what kind of food I feed my current babies.

I free feed dry food (Blue Buffalo) and give wet food (Sheba) twice a day.

They told me that dry food is bad for cats and can lead to kidney problems and urinary blockages, and I'll need to transition my cats to only wet food before they will allow me to adopt.

Has anyone heard of this before?!

Charles
May 9, 2004

zoom-zoom


Toilet Rascal

I really hate preachy "rescues". It's people who repeat what they heard as a kid / once as fact forever without being open to any other ideas.

AnonymousNarcotics
Aug 6, 2012

we will go far into the sea
you will take me
onto your back
never look back
never look back


Here's the info they sent me.


Local Rescue posted:

Here is the nutrition information that will be a helpful starting point for education. I've attached a list of potential foods as well as and information sheet on the dangers of feeding an inappropriate diet of dry food. Please also note, fish flavored foods is not good for cats and should be avoided especially in male cats. If you have interest in raw, there are commercial brands available that are balanced, Stella & Chewy (Both raw and dehydrated options), Lotus, Small Batch, or you can purchase the raw meat from Home Page | Hare Today  and use proper and complete mixes from companies like Food Fur Life (Food Fur Life - EZ Homemade raw food for pets!) and Alnutrin (Know What You Feed - A Guide To A Balanced Homemade Cat Food)  to make it a complete and balanced diet for your cat.  These mixes are an important piece to making your own raw food.

Catfooddb.com rates the nutritional value of the brand and the foods they sell. Brands like Instinct, Nulo, Feline Natural and Ziwi peak have a higher rating compared to Wellness, blue buffalo and fancy feast

https://feline-nutrition.org/ - Explores the benefits of raw food

https://youtu.be/U4OIBGm5hHg - Goes into depth about the pet food company and the importance of a species appropriate diet. How vets and food companies make money off of cheap foods that cause harm to our pets.

https://catinfo.org/ - discusses a species appropriate diet and the dangers of dry food. *articles written by VETS*

Please also be cautious of over-vaccinating your pets. A strong suggestion to lower chances of Vaccine Associated Sarcoma caused by rabies vaccine is to request the Purevax rabies and only vaccinate every 3 years and do annual wellness exams each year. Please do thorough research.





Is this all ridiculous hype? I'm not sure what I should take from this.

Dogen
May 5, 2002

Bury my body down by the highwayside, so that my old evil spirit can get a Greyhound bus and ride


All I've ever heard from vets is that the 3 year rabies vaccine doesn't work well in cats

Also obviously dry food is fine. I think wet food gives an edge in providing moisture but like get a cat fountain or something.

These people sound insane.

Buff Hardback
Jun 11, 2019



IMO just say "sure Jan" and feed them a mix of high quality wet and dry.

Buff Hardback
Jun 11, 2019



What I will say though is free feeding depends on the cat. Some can handle it and not get fat as hell, some will eat everything they can see.


As far as Blue itself goes, I'd consider it one of the better ish grocery store brands, but middle tier as far as all available foods go.

AnonymousNarcotics
Aug 6, 2012

we will go far into the sea
you will take me
onto your back
never look back
never look back


What about not giving cats fish or fish-flavored food? Is there any truth to that? It's really hard to sort out what's true and what's bs

Buff Hardback
Jun 11, 2019



AnonymousNarcotics posted:

What about not giving cats fish or fish-flavored food? Is there any truth to that? It's really hard to sort out what's true and what's bs

As far as I can tell it's not a thing.

I've had nothing but great results from a mix of Nature's Variety Instinct Raw Boost kibble (so it's kibble plus freeze dried whole pieces of the given protein) as well as every other day replacing one of those meals with a can of Instinct wet food.

Buff Hardback
Jun 11, 2019



More than anything I'd just plan on rotating proteins every so often to keep a cat from getting too hung up on a single protein and refusing to eat any other protein.

As far as I can tell the fish issue is that there's not enough thiamine in fish straight so if a cat is just eating fish they'll suffer from thiamine deficiency after a while. But food manufacturers are aware of this so they add it in to make sure they're getting what they need.

Buff Hardback
Jun 11, 2019



Dogen posted:

All I've ever heard from vets is that the 3 year rabies vaccine doesn't work well in cats

Also obviously dry food is fine. I think wet food gives an edge in providing moisture but like get a cat fountain or something.

These people sound insane.

As far as rabies goes, my understanding is that there was a 1 year PureVax rabies (nonadjuvanted which allegedly is the thing that reduces the risk of injection site sarcomas) and a 3 year adjuvanted. The 3 year PureVax didn't pass testing until 2014 though (because someone hosed up the test and the control cats who were supposed to get sick with rabies didn't so they had to restart the entire 3 year trial).

If vets haven't kept up (or if you haven't explicitly asked about it recently), they're going to recommend the 1 year PureVax rabies since that reduces the risk of sarcomas, but now that the 3 year PureVax rabies exists, assuming your jurisdiction allows 3 years instead of 1 years, just get the 3 year.

Dogen
May 5, 2002

Bury my body down by the highwayside, so that my old evil spirit can get a Greyhound bus and ride


Good to know. I havenít asked recently, and they havenít offered us a 3 year.

Buff Hardback
Jun 11, 2019



Of course this made me realize that when I renewed Artemis's rabies last week, Vetco (because cheap) gave RabVac 3 year which is adjuvanted. Oh well, I'll deal with it on her next set of shots as well as her rabies when it's time again.

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Facebook Aunt
Oct 4, 2008

i like cats


AnonymousNarcotics posted:

Here's the info they sent me.






Is this all ridiculous hype? I'm not sure what I should take from this.

It's anecdotal, but growing up I had a male cat who lived to 19 on mostly the cheapest supermarket dry food. To be fair, he did supplement his diet with a lot of mice when he was young. When he got into his teens and I was old enough to make decisions about it I tried switching to better quality food and more canned food. Even once he'd lost half his teeth he wouldn't go completely to canned food, he'd cry if there wasn't a bowl of kibble somewhere for him to gum. The plural of anecdote is not data, but I wouldn't expect any cats to live for several years on an exclusively kibble diet if kibble was poison.

It's probably a thing where they take some facts and then extrapolate to absurdity. Like I wouldn't be surprised if some study found cats on an exclusive kibble diet don't live as long cats on an exclusive canned food diet, simply because people who can afford to feed canned food could also be more likely to afford regular vet care. Or fish might be bad because canned tuna can be high in mercury, and if humans should avoid eating canned tuna more than twice a week then maybe cats should avoid eating canned 'tuna' more than twice a week too. Stuff that starts going around in pet blogs as "just to be safe maybe avoid this thing" and after a few rounds of telephone becomes "you're a monster if you don't avoid this thing".

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