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That’s either one hell of a coincidence, or someone decided to be naughty and spoil us ahead of time.
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Jul 9, 2020 06:05
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Araxxor posted:That’s either one hell of a coincidence, or someone decided to be naughty and spoil us ahead of time. Yeah that's the feeling I had. Whole lot of discussion about the Monty Hall problem, followed by a tonne of votes for it when, frankly, the Transporter room is way more interesting/revealing IMO for info we don't have. Since Control is fairly self-explanatory while Transporter is "What the gently caress does it mean by Transporter?"
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Jul 9, 2020 06:09
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Blueberry Pancakes posted:Also, Carlos is surprised Junpei knows about the Matrix? It's kind of a well known movie, my dude. You couldn't get away from the slow-motion parodies for the longest time! Eh, this takes place in 2028. That movie would have come out several years before Junpei was born. Though I hear they're making a fourth one somehow? Rabbi Raccoon posted:Who call is "cola"? I've seen maps on this. Different states have different names for it in the US, all over the place. Soda, cola, pop, tonic, coke (yes for all soft drinks). It's changed a lot over time, too. Kind of an interesting linguistic history, actually.
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Jul 9, 2020 06:10
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Blueberry Pancakes posted:Everyone talking about the Monty Hall problem made me believe I'd missed the update where we actually did the Monty Hall problem. But I guess we wound up talking about it in advance! Sure, but it's 2029. In nine years there will be plenty of people for whom The Matrix is "that bad cgi that grandpa loves". Also,  C-team.jpg
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Jul 9, 2020 06:11
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DKII posted:I've seen maps on this. Different states have different names for it in the US, all over the place. Soda, cola, pop, tonic, coke (yes for all soft drinks). It's changed a lot over time, too. Kind of an interesting linguistic history, actually. I grew up in Coke country, about half and half with soda. As for Monty Hall discussion I believe that arose organically, at least that's how I was engaging with it. Voted for this room afterward though.
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Jul 9, 2020 06:17
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I'm pretty sure that the Monty Hall discussion started organically, especially since we were discussing Sleeping Beauty and arguing over whether we should do Decontamination/Executions or Transporter next. I do believe, however, that the sidelining of Sleeping Beauty in favor of Monty Hall, and the transition to Control instead of Transporter, was driven mostly, if not entirely, by those 'in the know'. EDIT: Incidentally, I'm in favor of Sticking with our choice. Show all those mathematicians and statistics what's what! OddHaberdasher fucked around with this message at 06:58 on Jul 9, 2020 |
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Jul 9, 2020 06:40
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DKII posted:Eh, this takes place in 2028. That movie would have come out several years before Junpei was born. Though I hear they're making a fourth one somehow? wologar posted:Sure, but it's 2029. In nine years there will be plenty of people for whom The Matrix is "that bad cgi that grandpa loves". Good point!
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Jul 9, 2020 07:04
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I can honestly say that as far as I go, it was definitely no intention on my part. My memories of the game are so indistinct I didn't even remember that Control was the Monty Hall problem. I will say that it is one of the most classic game theory problems so it gets brought up a lot, along with the Prisoner's Dilemma. Any time you bring up some other similar area of it (Cooperation Game, Nash Equilibrium, etc.) chances are one of the two will come up. Heck, Monty Hall even got reference in Brooklyn 99, it's decently widespread. Sleeping Beauty is also both more uncommon, and much harder to wrap your brain around (it took me reading some really good papers to really get a handle of why some people think it's a 1 in 3 solution), so I'm not surprised discussion on it drops off much faster.
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Jul 9, 2020 07:22
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I played the game ages ago so I had actually forgotten that Monty Hall was in Control. I kinda wanted to see Transporter Room personally, that's where my crazy-man notes happened on my playthrough. Wish I could find them again, it was pretty wild.
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Jul 9, 2020 07:52
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BlazeEmblem posted:I'd just like to point out that there is still a one in ten probability that the first door we picked was correct. That got a bit awkward when I tried to get the ending for not getting it correct, because I didn't switch, yet still got the "survival" answer. I've played through the game before but I completely forgot that the Monty Hall problem was in the game or I wouldn't have brought it up. I've known about it for years and all the probability talk in the thread made me think of it.
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Jul 9, 2020 13:35
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Also: Nice tracing work, Mr./Miss Shakyhands. 
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Jul 9, 2020 13:38
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I'm wondering if this is a real chance or if it's quietly rigged so your first choice is always wrong because the SHIFT  require an explanation of Monty Hall. (If you think this might influence people's choices, feel free to not answer this until after the vote)wologar posted:
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Jul 9, 2020 13:48
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It's a true replication of the problem. There are only a few times where the Decision Game is rigged, such as the opening coin toss and the dice roll (where it's rigged in the player's favour if they fail twice).
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Jul 9, 2020 13:58
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Hello, your friendly moderation team chiming in for a second here. We've had quite a few reports from this thread now accusing some posters of posting spoilers as speculation. I should stress that I have absolutely no idea who here knows what, gently caress, I can barely remember parts of this game myself to check against what people are posting. I sure as poo poo am not going to go poking around everyone's post history looking for smoking gun posts where they discuss the ending. Frankly, even if I were certain that the reported posters were really guilty of this - and to be clear this post should not be read as speaking to any suspicion of any poster - there's still very little I can meaningfully do about it. So let me just reiterate my plea. to everybody: If you have finished this game, please do not participate in or attempt to guide speculation, even if you're being super careful, even if you've forgotten or think you've forgotten important details. Just please don't. (Except, of course, when it comes to particpating in anomymous votes)
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Jul 9, 2020 15:20
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This is the day the thread has been training for.
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Jul 9, 2020 15:22
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Another way I've heard the problem explained (if it turns out that I'm remembering this explanation from this game then I swear I'm gonna shoot myself) is to imagine instead that Monty gives you the choice before he opens a door rather than after he opens it. Keep in mind that he's deliberately opening a door that he knows has a gag prize behind it. Let's say you choose a door. Your odds are 1 out of 3, correct? Now let's say that -- without opening any door -- Monty then gives you the option of taking the door you originally chose or taking BOTH of the other doors. You'd switch in a heartbeat, right? Double the doors means double the chance of winning. So... after you've taken both of those doors, what difference would it make if he opens both doors simultaneously or if he opens one of them first and then opens the other one? None, right? Your odds of winning are 2 out of 3 regardless of how Monty chooses to open your two doors. There is zero practical difference between Monty opening a door before offering you a choice or opening that same door after offering you the choice. The fact that he deliberately opens a losing door before giving you the choice is pure showmanship on Monty's part. It changes nothing. It's entirely psychological. Thinking about the problem like that helps it "click" easier for a lot of people.
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Jul 9, 2020 15:39
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Fedule posted:Hello, your friendly moderation team chiming in for a second here. As I mentioned, it was entirely accidental on my part. I even posted earlier in the thread that I'm not going to try to steer people in any direction or manipulate votes. I hate when people do that. I apologize for forgetting this was in the game. Had I remembered, I wouldn't have brought it up.
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Jul 9, 2020 15:42
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I notice that computer lady repeatedly uses singular phrasing - "an oxygen mask", "a mask", and "the mask". Even if we pass Probability Theory 101, that still doesn't sound particularly promising for 2/3 of C-Team.
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Jul 9, 2020 16:38
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MagusofStars posted:I notice that computer lady repeatedly uses singular phrasing - "an oxygen mask", "a mask", and "the mask". If the only problem here is CO2 poisoning, they can take turn with a single mask. Just hold your breath in the interim.
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Jul 9, 2020 16:50
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Omobono posted:If the only problem here is CO2 poisoning, they can take turn with a single mask. Just hold your breath in the interim. I mean one of them, Akane, has already passed out. I don't think you can ask an unconscious person to hold their breath.
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Jul 9, 2020 17:00
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Onmi posted:I mean one of them, Akane, has already passed out. I don't think you can ask an unconscious person to hold their breath. You absolutely can ask an unconscious person to hold their breath. You just won't get a response.
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Jul 9, 2020 17:03
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Rabbi Raccoon posted:You absolutely can ask an unconscious person to hold their breath. You just won't get a response. 
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Jul 9, 2020 17:28
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DKII posted:Is The Matrix still cool? I kind of thought most people drifted away from it after the third movie. This is true, but I somehow would not be at all surprised to learn that Uchikoshi was a fan of the whole trilogy.
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Jul 9, 2020 18:59
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DKII posted:Is The Matrix still cool? I kind of thought most people drifted away from it after the third movie. Like the Sleeping Beauty problem it feels like there's something interesting there but it sure as heck isn't communicated clearly.
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Jul 9, 2020 19:32
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I blame the morphogenetic field for giving us advance notice to discuss the Monty Hall problem before it becomes relevant in the game  I'm inclined to believe it was a coincidence because we had just finished talking about the Sleeping Beauty paradox and it functions somewhat similarly, at least in a superficial sense.
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Jul 9, 2020 22:05
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Bruceski posted:Like the Sleeping Beauty problem it feels like there's something interesting there but it sure as heck isn't communicated clearly.
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Jul 9, 2020 22:16
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I cannot believe I caught up to the thread arguing about Monty Hall directly before Monty Hall
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Jul 10, 2020 00:20
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Life is simply unfair. Don't you think?
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Jul 10, 2020 02:30
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curiousCat posted:I cannot believe I caught up to the thread arguing about Monty Hall directly before Monty Hall For me, that was the perfect time to find the thread. Nice to see another one of these.
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Jul 10, 2020 02:35
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ApplesandOranges posted:Life is simply unfair. Don't you think? Are you kidding me?? I'm with Cyouni, it's perfect lol
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Jul 10, 2020 03:22
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Sometimes life really do be fair
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Jul 10, 2020 03:23
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Part 63: Correct (2) Guess all that Monty Hall discussion earlier came in handy.  So I left the fragment to go do other stuff, and when I came back a different door was randomly left closed. I still picked "2" originally, so we're going to switch to "6" here.  You can see in the corner that locker "6" is lit up because I switched to it. Here's hoping math doesn't let us down! Music: Sinisterness Phase 1   Aw yeah, we did it! Yeah, but... You gotta be joking... One... Are you telling me there's only one?!   Just a shot of Akane gasping here.    Why?! The door doesn't open for twenty minutes...   Augh! What the hell! Heavy gasping from Junpei.  And from Carlos. Music: Morphogenetic Sorrow (Mix 3)   Hey Carlos... I have a favor to ask... I know...  A click.  Akane's gasping becomes a bit slower.   Hey. I'm glad...  Huh...? It brings back that time at the festival... Remember? We went together. You found this weird character mask, and bought two. You tried to make me wear one... Oh that's right, you were wearing a yukata then... You said it had been your mom's before she died. That's why it was so big on you... I want to go to that festival again... Hurry! Put the mask on... Akane looks to Carlos for support.  He just nods. What... And Junpei and Carlos fall.  A ring falls out, tumbling across the floor.   JUNPEI! Cut to the Lounge, where instead of the computer lady telling us what's happened, we just get to see the scoreboard. Or most of it, anyway. Carlos gets HERO for his X-Pass, which is self-explanatory. Junpei gets HATE, because he's a grumpy old man or something. We don't get to see the others, but there's only one timeline we've seen where all of Q-Team is dead, and only Phi is dead from D-Team. The Trash Disposal Room, when we don't shoot and Phi is lost to the incinerator.  That's six X-Passes, by the way. So Akane just gets the gently caress out of there. Screw Diana and Sigma, anyway.    She slowly walks through the door, broken. Later, the world will feel her wrath.  For us, though...  It's just another dead end. I kind of thought we'd have more explanation of the Monty Hall problem, but I guess we were too busy dying for that.  C-Team has three different fragments depending on the different results from the Trash Disposal room. From left to right, we have the Power Room coming down from the Shoot:Blank / Drink result, the Rec Room from the Shoot:Live result, and Control from the Don't Shoot result. Kind of interesting.  Nothing new unlocked. We did get the Quantum Computer Dome opened up a couple updates ago, though. Or we can replay that decision again. Or one of the other handful of options. Select the story fragment.
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Jul 10, 2020 04:15
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Man, how many times have we had a 'unhinged girl leaves through the door' scene? The only timeline where that hasn't happened so far, we released radical-6 onto the world or Diana runs back into the shelter. Okay, there's the one where Carlos stays behind and runs at the wall, but it's still unleashing Akane, so.
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Jul 10, 2020 04:20
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I've been silently voting for the Force Quit fragments since forever ago. Strangely, it seems I'm not the only one.
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Jul 10, 2020 05:14
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And there goes Akane, loving over D Team again. 
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Jul 10, 2020 05:16
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wologar posted:I've been silently voting for the Force Quit fragments since forever ago. Strangely, it seems I'm not the only one. Was it only you, or maybe it was just you, SHIFTing into multiple timelines to vote again?
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Jul 10, 2020 05:20
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I figure if there's alternate outcomes for a fragment and one of them is the clearly bad/wrong one you might as well just put it in the same update instead of a vote.
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Jul 10, 2020 05:38
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ApplesandOranges posted:Was it only you, or maybe it was just you, SHIFTing into multiple timelines to vote again? If you use a VPN, are you just SHIFTing through identities?
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Jul 10, 2020 06:03
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Blueberry Pancakes posted:And there goes Akane, loving over D Team again. ... Wait if Phi is dead this is the timeline where Phi burns. And now Sigma and Diana are trapped in the shelter. I'm having thoughts, but they're stupid, and don't make sense.
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Jul 10, 2020 07:27
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I hadn't thought about it, but it is weird that everyone hears the passwords and just...doesn't leave.
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Jul 10, 2020 14:44
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