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Vavrek
Mar 2, 2013

I like your style hombre, but this is no laughing matter. Assault on a police officer. Theft of police property. Illegal possession of a firearm. FIVE counts of attempted murder. That comes to... 29 dollars and 40 cents. Cash, cheque, or credit card?

TheAardvark posted:

Holy gently caress S1E6!!! let me make sure I get this straight
[...]
I'm going to ignore the transparent 3d CG model of him post transcendence because lmao


From the main Babylon 5 thread, my favorite take on that:
He literally turns into the galaxy brain meme.

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Vavrek
Mar 2, 2013

I like your style hombre, but this is no laughing matter. Assault on a police officer. Theft of police property. Illegal possession of a firearm. FIVE counts of attempted murder. That comes to... 29 dollars and 40 cents. Cash, cheque, or credit card?

TheAardvark posted:

S1E9
This episode is absolutely all over the place but there's so much good poo poo here.

First off the obvious: "Understanding is a three edged sword." The Kosh and Abbut scenes here were great. The Vorlons implying they are immortal.

Hell yeah our first assembly! Finally this politics tag feels right.

Also Lennier is cool and my friend and I will not allow ill to be spoken of him. There are so many characters on this show that are so damned good and so well acted. I think part of it goes back to the cast fluctuating in and out.

And I assumed the serum was some kind of poison, I like the "cost" twist a lot more.

Talia's thing at the end. He's a recorder? So he was recording her thought patterns and Kosh was.. what, using varying nonsense sentences until they triggered a terrible memory?

drat there was a lot going on in this episode.


:suspense:

Please, continue.

Vavrek
Mar 2, 2013

I like your style hombre, but this is no laughing matter. Assault on a police officer. Theft of police property. Illegal possession of a firearm. FIVE counts of attempted murder. That comes to... 29 dollars and 40 cents. Cash, cheque, or credit card?

The Lurker's Guide is great for subsequent watches. It's full of incredibly refined speculation and, even without actually using info from later episodes, will spoil you on things if you read it during a first watch.

It also has comments J. Michael Straczynski made online at the time, and I forget if it arranges those by when he said them or by what episode he said them about. (for instance, if during S4 he made some comment about an S2 episode that referenced things which happened in S3, is that on the page for the S2 episode? I don't remember.)

Vavrek
Mar 2, 2013

I like your style hombre, but this is no laughing matter. Assault on a police officer. Theft of police property. Illegal possession of a firearm. FIVE counts of attempted murder. That comes to... 29 dollars and 40 cents. Cash, cheque, or credit card?

I think those are from a rebroadcast in 2003.

Here's the modified order:

code:
    Midnight on the Firing Line
    Soul Hunter
    Born to the Purple
    Infection
    The Parliament of Dreams
    Mind War
    The War Prayer
    And The Sky Full Of Stars
    Deathwalker
    Believers
    Survivors
    By Any Means Necessary
    Signs and Portents
    Grail
    Eyes
    A Voice in the Wilderness part 1
    A Voice in the Wilderness part 2
    Babylon Squared
    The Quality of Mercy
    TKO
    Legacies
    Chrysalis
It's pretty much entirely little changes based on things JMS said, like "Oh, the show was going on hiatus for a few weeks here and we didn't want to come back on a downer episode" or "Yes, this episode was supposed to happen then, but it took so long to render the CGI that we bumped it back." It makes a lot of subtle little character details flow much better, but they're not big enough deals to worry about.

Vavrek
Mar 2, 2013

I like your style hombre, but this is no laughing matter. Assault on a police officer. Theft of police property. Illegal possession of a firearm. FIVE counts of attempted murder. That comes to... 29 dollars and 40 cents. Cash, cheque, or credit card?

It's also the order they're in on the DVDs.

Vavrek
Mar 2, 2013

I like your style hombre, but this is no laughing matter. Assault on a police officer. Theft of police property. Illegal possession of a firearm. FIVE counts of attempted murder. That comes to... 29 dollars and 40 cents. Cash, cheque, or credit card?

A note for other series veterans that has nothing really to do with the content of my post aside from that I'm using spoiler tags and am a series veteran: My intent is to offer only per-episode analysis and stuff based on previous episodes, not future (from The_Doctor's position) episodes. I think this should be fine for a blind watch thread but if y'all think any series veteran posting stuff in spoiler tags is a problem I'll go from watching my words to just biting my tongue and staying silent.

(A note for The_Doctor: what I wrote below is fine, really, there've just been some discussions in the main thread about how much this thread should be left alone and I try to err on the side of caution and respect.)

The_Doctor posted:

S1ep10 - Beliebers

“The avalanche has already started, it is too late for the pebbles to vote.”

Ah, we’re doing a religious thing here. Isn’t it Jehovah’s Witnesses that have something like this about blood transfusions? And no puncturing the skin at all? Jeez, I slice one of my fingers open at least once a year while cooking.

Interestingly, this is 4 years before the anti-vax movement started, and this is a good encapsulation of that daftness.

I honestly think Kosh said something mysterious and vague just to get them to go away.

“You are refusing because of your beliefs?!” Yeah ironic, huh?

The only message I’m getting here is ‘religion is really, really dumb’, which honestly feels at odds with ‘Parliament of Dreams’ where we saw the other worlds’ religions, and it all came across as very deferential.

And Ivanova did a thing too, I guess? The parallel ‘breaking orders’ thing feels very weak, and honestly the whole episode is poor. I honestly kept pausing and wandering off during this ep I was so disengaged.


Specifically on the first point, I believe JMS clarified on usenet that it's more about the abdominal cavity or some kind of organ sac that species has, not just the skin.

On the fifth point, I think that's a difference in focal characters. Sinclair was the focus in Parliament, and is much more tolerant of religious beliefs in Believers than Franklin is. The episode's following Franklin's reaction of "Well that's just insane.", not Sinclair's "I respect that you are doing what you feel you must."

Vavrek
Mar 2, 2013

I like your style hombre, but this is no laughing matter. Assault on a police officer. Theft of police property. Illegal possession of a firearm. FIVE counts of attempted murder. That comes to... 29 dollars and 40 cents. Cash, cheque, or credit card?

TheAardvark posted:


Proud of Delenn's actress for demanding less makeup.


I believe they said her S2 appearance was actually a lot harder to deal with, though maybe I'm remembering people saying it was harder to make look right, since it has to have her hair pass through. I know Bill Mumy (Lennier) has said he absolutely hated the standard Minbari makeup. But then, he joined the show saying "This looks great, I love the premise, I will play anything but an alien keep me out of prosthetics." :v:



Zaroff posted:

Regarding the first point:
This is an error on the US DVDs - the episodes as broadcast had Delenn in her S1 Minbari makeup up until her reveal.
Thankfully the UK DVDs had this error corrected.


Oh cool. I didn't realize there was a non-VHS version of the correct S2 intros out there.

Vavrek
Mar 2, 2013

I like your style hombre, but this is no laughing matter. Assault on a police officer. Theft of police property. Illegal possession of a firearm. FIVE counts of attempted murder. That comes to... 29 dollars and 40 cents. Cash, cheque, or credit card?

The_Doctor posted:

S1Ep20 - Babylon Squared


This is really good, and bombs along at a proper clip! I love a good time travel plot,


I'm shocked, shocked I say.

Vavrek
Mar 2, 2013

I like your style hombre, but this is no laughing matter. Assault on a police officer. Theft of police property. Illegal possession of a firearm. FIVE counts of attempted murder. That comes to... 29 dollars and 40 cents. Cash, cheque, or credit card?

Neo Rasa posted:

This is correct. Not really a spoiler just general observation, I always liked that it was a relatively small number compared to lot of large cities irl because the amount of people actually for real living on the station or assigned to it for a length of time is pretty small compared to how much of it is the infrastructure that keeps it going and communal spaces/food production/etc. type of stuff. There's a few amusingly dated calls about how certain stuff things work in the future but at the same time it's very real in a lot of ways a lot of the other 90s sci-fi shows never really went for.


DS9 was similar, it has a capacity 7,000 people but the actual for real there full time population is something crazy small for the size of the station like < 1000 people because its original purpose was that of an ore processing plant and most of the station is just storage space. I think the actual complement was only 300.

I worked out the numbers once and found that Babylon 5 has about the same population density as Hong Kong.

5 mile long centrifuge, 1 mile diameter, gives a 5 * π square miles interior: about 15.7 sq mi. A quarter million divided by 15.7 gives about 16k/sq mi. Hong Kong's population density is about 17.5k/sq mi.

When you factor in that B5 has something like 50 decks, it's like you've taken a very long, broad skyscraper with an elaborate rooftop garden, and rolled it into a tube.


†They always say the station is five miles long, but a production designer explained in an interview that it's the living section that's five miles, while the whole station was about eight miles long, according to how they'd designed and built the 3d model.

Vavrek
Mar 2, 2013

I like your style hombre, but this is no laughing matter. Assault on a police officer. Theft of police property. Illegal possession of a firearm. FIVE counts of attempted murder. That comes to... 29 dollars and 40 cents. Cash, cheque, or credit card?

Neo Rasa posted:

I never knew this, I too thought the entire station was five miles.

I only learned it reading an interview a few months ago, from a very spoiler-heavy website that I'll link in the main B5 thread.

edit: Also, this, very much:

Polaron posted:

I hope you guys keep these lists around so you can revisit them when you finish the show.

Vavrek fucked around with this message at 04:00 on Jun 12, 2020

Vavrek
Mar 2, 2013

I like your style hombre, but this is no laughing matter. Assault on a police officer. Theft of police property. Illegal possession of a firearm. FIVE counts of attempted murder. That comes to... 29 dollars and 40 cents. Cash, cheque, or credit card?

Awesome! Have a good time, let us know what you think.

Vavrek
Mar 2, 2013

I like your style hombre, but this is no laughing matter. Assault on a police officer. Theft of police property. Illegal possession of a firearm. FIVE counts of attempted murder. That comes to... 29 dollars and 40 cents. Cash, cheque, or credit card?

Discussing Believers:

Unkempt posted:


Yeah, I think that was what they were going for and I certainly don't think we're supposed to believe anyone there approved of their actions, but the implication here is that people on Bab 5 are allowed to murder, rape, torture or enslave anyone (of their own species) as long as they've got a religion that says it's OK. I'm going to be 'that guy' and suggest that actually that's a bit poo poo.

edit: I guess they could get kicked off the station? That's still a little bit poo poo.


From back in Born to the Purple:
Adira Tyree is a slave. Londo's shocked that she's a slave, but not that slavery exists, and his way to deal with it is to buy her freedom rather than bring the issue to any authorities.

Vavrek
Mar 2, 2013

I like your style hombre, but this is no laughing matter. Assault on a police officer. Theft of police property. Illegal possession of a firearm. FIVE counts of attempted murder. That comes to... 29 dollars and 40 cents. Cash, cheque, or credit card?

My assumption is there's some maximum words per screen and/or words per second limit they're operating under, intended so that people can read and keep up with the subtitles without struggling. If you get too long or complex a sentence, it's simplified so that it's quicker to read while maintaining the same overall meaning. And with the maximum set at 'general populace' reading speed, rather than 'anime fan, subs purist', you'd have to cut down a lot of Babylon 5's lines.

Vavrek
Mar 2, 2013

I like your style hombre, but this is no laughing matter. Assault on a police officer. Theft of police property. Illegal possession of a firearm. FIVE counts of attempted murder. That comes to... 29 dollars and 40 cents. Cash, cheque, or credit card?

Grand Fromage posted:

Yeah, they specifically told him not to do an accent then he showed up with that accent ready to go and would not stop doing it, so they gave up. Peter Jurasik rules.

He explained in an interview I listened to that he'd just previously been in a play set somewhere in the American south (A Streetcar Named Desire, maybe?) and had worked very hard on getting his accent exactly right and authentic, only for some critic to complain about it. When he got the chance to audition for an alien, he realized that no one could say his accent was wrong.

When they said, "Hey, uh, we weren't really thinking of Londo as an accent character, so ..." he replied: "VHAT AKSENT?!"



The thing about the crest was a pair of people not getting that the other person was joking: Jurasik looked at the original, full-length wig that had been produced (designed to be cut down to the right length) and thought "Man, it'd be hilarious if Joe thought I loved this stupid wig just as it is." JMS ... did think so, I guess because Jurasik's a good actor. So that's what he's wearing in The Gathering, which they had to then work into the character design and try to make it look less terrible once they got into the show proper.

Vavrek
Mar 2, 2013

I like your style hombre, but this is no laughing matter. Assault on a police officer. Theft of police property. Illegal possession of a firearm. FIVE counts of attempted murder. That comes to... 29 dollars and 40 cents. Cash, cheque, or credit card?

RedSnapper posted:

re: coffee
Maybe it's the issue of actual grown vs highly-processed instant?


S2E8
I always figured that was it, since there's some line earlier about "You have coffee, real coffee?" Then there's just the plothole of a whole conspiracy to get it properly roasted without anyone noticing ...

Vavrek
Mar 2, 2013

I like your style hombre, but this is no laughing matter. Assault on a police officer. Theft of police property. Illegal possession of a firearm. FIVE counts of attempted murder. That comes to... 29 dollars and 40 cents. Cash, cheque, or credit card?

TheAardvark posted:

The show's quality and my interest in it have ramped up super hard over the last few episodes and I can't possibly stop watching now.

Welcome to Babylon 5.

Vavrek
Mar 2, 2013

I like your style hombre, but this is no laughing matter. Assault on a police officer. Theft of police property. Illegal possession of a firearm. FIVE counts of attempted murder. That comes to... 29 dollars and 40 cents. Cash, cheque, or credit card?

The_Doctor posted:

I’m 6’4 already, any taller and doors would become an issue.

You've hit on my favorite dumb thing about the Kosh costume: It doesn't fit through the doors on Babylon 5. This is why Kosh is always mysteriously already standing there in any scene he appears in.

Vavrek
Mar 2, 2013

I like your style hombre, but this is no laughing matter. Assault on a police officer. Theft of police property. Illegal possession of a firearm. FIVE counts of attempted murder. That comes to... 29 dollars and 40 cents. Cash, cheque, or credit card?

The_Doctor posted:

Don’t tell me how to watch TV, thanks. Unless it’s a better episode order like earlier this season or something. Then tell me how to watch it.

:hmmyes:

One point, not about how to watch TV, but related to your most recent episode summary (2x20) and a few earlier comments:
I've often seen B5 described as being very theatrical in its production style, and I never quite knew what was meant by that. Like, the dialogue style, the way the characters were portrayed, the scope of the story? ... it just wasn't clear to me what people were saying. Your reaction to the Centauri homeworld and imperial throne room made it clear to me in a way I'd overlooked before:

"Awesome, get to see an alien homeworld and it's ... a room with some curtains."

"You know this throne room is actually really small."

Given the confines of the station (and the limitations of doing composite shots) it's just always seemed natural to me that the whole story takes place indoors. So thanks for pointing out the curtains.

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Vavrek
Mar 2, 2013

I like your style hombre, but this is no laughing matter. Assault on a police officer. Theft of police property. Illegal possession of a firearm. FIVE counts of attempted murder. That comes to... 29 dollars and 40 cents. Cash, cheque, or credit card?

boo boo bear posted:

speaking of not having artificial gravity and how glorious that can be... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYBjIbs4bPc

the older the earth alliance ships get, the cooler they are. the mudshark-looking destroyers where the crew had to strap in are the best. real space cowboy vibes from that one.


I get that this is a fan render looking at a moment that happened offscreen in the show (inasmuch as anything actually happens in that video), but this is the blind watch thread and the video's description talks about plot details. It just makes me uncomfortable, because I'm overprotective of this thread.

Somebody fucked around with this message at 00:40 on Apr 18, 2021

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