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 Final Fantasy C2 is a rather interesting ROM hack, in that it's a ROM hack of Final Fantasy IV that serves as a pseudo-remake of Final Fantasy II. Created by Naka no Hito, it's not really accurate, as it uses FF4 maps, music, and enemies (though a later patch by Tsushiy adds FF2 enemy sprites to this hack), plus a few other creative liberties here and there and probably everywhere. This was a somewhat obscure Japanese-only hack, but then the wonderful Clyde "Tomato" Mandelin translated the entire hack and released it several days ago. Once I learned of its existence in the SA FF5 Four Job Fiesta Discord, I felt compelled to check it out myself, and why not do it with a blind Let's Play? Nothing too exciting here. This LP is blind, so no spoilers for the hack. Spoilers for FF2 and FF4 are fine, but if you don't know much about either I'll give a basic summary of FF2's plot and FF4's mechanics as I go. If you want to learn more about the FF2s, I did a LP of a rough draft translation of a potential English release of FF2 as well as an exhaustive look at FF4. And, you know, a whole bunch of other cool LP's. I post LP and stream updates on my Twitter. I don't really post much else either so don't worry about me clogging your feeds with my political opinions that would save the world if only everyone would listen to me. ----- Chapter 1 - Final Fantasy 2/2 Chapter 2 - Final Fantasy 2B Mega64 fucked around with this message at 22:05 on Jul 21, 2020 |
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Jul 19, 2020 22:30
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| # ? Apr 29, 2024 08:38 |
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Reserved for insanity.
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Jul 19, 2020 22:31
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Chapter 1 - Final Fantasy 2/2 There are two versions of this ROM hack. Version A is the original hack, using FF4 enemies to represent FF2 foes, while Version B adds enhanced enemy graphics from FF2 to better represent the game. For now, I'm gonna start with Version A, but I'll post a poll on whether you want me to do the LP in Version A or Version B. Won't make any difference otherwise. And here's the title screen! Basically the same as FF4's besides the logo. Always was kinda weird that FF2US used a different title screen than FF4, but I guess swords are cooler than crystals in the US, so what can you do.  This hack uses entirely FF4 music, as far as I know. I've only played a little bit so far, but it seems there's no custom tracks here. For instance, "The Long Road Ahead" (i.e. the music that plays when Cecil first talks to the Mysidian Elder after washing up near Mysidia) plays for this screen. I won't be linking the music to this one mostly due to sheer laziness. If the music choice seems interesting in particular for a scene, I'll point it out, but otherwise just assume an appropriate FF4 song plays for each scene.  Tomato, the professional translator behind the famed Legends of Localization site and creator of a few other fan translations (including a little ol' game called Mother 3) did the translation work for this one, using mostly the GBA scripts of 2 and 4. Since a lot of the dialogue is going to be similar to the GBA version of FF2, I'm gotta cut most of it and focus on stuff that's new, interesting, or otherwise summarizes the scene.  The intro of FF2 begins with soldiers chasing down our four protagonists. In the original, the game literally opens to a fight, while later releases add this short cutscene first to add a bit of context.  The custom spritework for the characters isn't half-bad, honestly. Maria kinda reminds me of The After Years Porom's sprite, while the others are alright.  This is an event battle, so everyone just auto-attacks. No command input like in the various official versions of FF2.  Otherwise, the battle goes as it always does, with your team getting annihilated.  The next scene is Princess Hilda and the White Mage Minwu reviving the fallen Firion before worrying about the ongoing war. They leave Firion right before he wakes up.  Firion wakes up, Maria and Guy are there to meet him in what looks like Mysidia (FF4 Mysidia, not FF2 Mysidia, because that's not going to get confusing), though Leon is missing.  We want to join the Rebels because our homes are destroyed and our families are dead, Hilda says no because we're punk kids, and now we have to prove ourselves by visiting Fynn.  The password system from the original exists here...sort of.   In that instead of picking from a list of words when prompted by certain NPCs, you're simply given a "Use Password?" prompt to execute instead. It makes the whole password system kinda pointless, but then again it was kinda pointless to begin with, so...   Lenora is a reference to Leonora, a character "added" in FF4's sequel The After Years. I say "added" because she was technically in FF4, as the unnamed little girl Palom bragged to in Troia during that game's ending. The FF Wiki decided that was enough to list Leonora as a Returning Character because why not. Anyway, it seems I will never be able to escape The After Years's grasp. Ah well, at least Leonora was one of the better characters from that game. If this were the Eblan Four I'd have already quit playing and we wouldn't have this LP. So carrying on!  This is FF4's engine, so we still have five character slots and our rows are still 3/2 or 2/3.   Firion has Incant, which from what I understand is similar to Edge's Ninjutsu, while Maria has access to White, Black, and Summon magic. "Gatli" is the Needle attack from the Swordrat/Gatling Rat enemy. Her other spells are the standard Cure/Fire/Blizzard/Thunder. Guy has no spells, because they make his brain hurt.  First off, this is FF4's engine, so no individual stat gains. We're using levels, which is a shame but whatever. Otherwise, each character also has a bio. Spoilers, we join the rebel army. Firion is a Swordmage, which is why he has Ninjutsu, but also it allows him to equip Rods and Staves, which is nice. I liked Dissidia's idea of having Firion represented as a master of weapons myself, but when you're putting characters with free reign to develop weapon and magic skills however they want into a game engine where each character has strict skills and magic lists, you're gonna have to make compromises somewhere.  Guy's all about power. He's the only one of the three who can equip axes. He's also got the least to work with, only getting the Focus attack of Charge (i.e. the "wait a turn to do more damage the next turn" attack that's rarely that useful).  Maria is the mage of the group, which is ironic since in all other versions she's usually the best frontline fighter due to her high starting agility in a game where Agility affects Evasion, arguably the most important stat in FF2.  At least my favorite NPC returns to berate us some more.   This goes into detail but I posted the summary here. Go to Hilda to advance the plot, grind You know, your usual Final Fantasy thing.  The Hovercraft replaces the Canoe for this game, because FF4 has a Hovercraft sprite but not a Canoe sprite. It'll make life easier though so I'm not complaining.  While the top room resembles FF4 Mysidia's Hall of  The two entrances don't actually have shops, though, but are the towers of Fabul. At least they net us some loot, though.  I'm guessing this is a throwing weapon, as nobody can equip it, it doesn't have a weapon symbol, and Firion has a Throw command.  Yang's Wife Sheila, i.e. the best NPC in FF4, resided in this room in the original to brag about bashing monsters with frying pans before encouraging you to domestically abuse her husband. Here, this is where Hilda sleeps.   The right tower has two hyper kids and an exhausted mother for no particular reason. I'm not complaining, I find it charming myself.  The former King of Fynn is wounded and incapacitated, which is why Hilda is running the show.  Once you leave the home base of Altair, you're out in the city, which just happens to be Mysidia (again, FF4 Mysidia, not FF2 Mysidia).  Paul the thief is represented by a purple-haired Edge.  While Gordon is straight-up Edward. Which, to be fair, is such a perfect fit and all...   Yeah, I can't even say anything here. The game itself does a good enough job of that.  The not-Serpent Trench gives free healing now.  Tobul still exists, and he'll still be relevant later on once we actually join the rebel army.  All three of our party members can equip bows. Guy can also equip swords and axes. Firion can equip swords, rods, and staves. Maria is just rods and staves. I give Maria a Rod because Rods are very potent weapons in the early game when used as an item.  The gear is pretty simple. The men can wear the heavy stuff, while only Maria can wear the Iron Bangle.  Items are pretty simple as well. At least revival is a lot simpler in this game.  The inn is Baron Inn, but otherwise, yeah, that's pretty much everything of note in Altair.  From what I understand, the overworld is still a giant interconnected land mass like in the original, so if you feel compelled to travel to areas with enemies that will annihilate you, that's an option! That said, I don't know how well I can sequence break in this hack, and it'll be better served until later anyway, as you'll see.  Nothing but standard FF4 foes in these starting areas, including Goblins and Swordrats.  Firion gets a bit of flexibility, though for the start he doesn't really have good options besides to Fight.  Maria, of course, has a large variety of magic to use, or at least will have a large variety once she gains levels. You still gotta find Summon magic I assume, but White and Black give spells on level up.  Guy is dead-simple. Fight, Fight But Harder, and Item. Also, Rod easily outdamages the men.  Chocobo Forests exist, but right now they only hold White and Fat Chocobos so you can't sequence break as easily (and so you don't screw yourself by riding to a high-level area and dismount with no hope of making it back alive).  Maria only learns one spell this whole update, which is Libra at L2.  If you remember, there's a completely forgettable town between Altair and Fynn.  Gatrea is just as forgettable here as in the original. The only new item sold are those Kozduka Knives that Firion can throw, and the NPCs don't really have anything interesting to say besides "Go talk to the one not-guard NPC in Fynn".    At least there's good loot here! I actually give Firion the other Rod because he does more damage using it as an item than with his regular attacks. The other gear is also good upgrades for Maria.     Namingway still exists and will still change your names. I'm open to name changes, so let me know what you think! I'll remind you at the end of the update.  An uneventful trek and a few levels later, we reach Fynn.   We're not entering the castle, though.  Fynn is basically Baron.  Except since Mysidia (FF4) had Baron's Inn, Baron has Mysidia (FF4)'s Inn. Ah, the noble Y-Burn...  This is the Bartender we need to tell the password to in order to progress the plot. Before we do, there's some stuff to explore.  A lot of this is just standard FF4 fare, but there's a couple hack-specific comments as well.   You can run in towns and dungeons with B, which, hell yeah. You can also swap turns with X, which is always handy.  It seems the hidden item locations in the original maps are still around for FFC2's maps. Glad I've spent so much time on FF4 and Free Enterprise in particular! Tomato was kind enough to put a counter for how many treasures you've found, so that's a nice addition.  There's nothing else to do here so let's gain a bar and progress the plot.   Scott is Gordon's brother and proposed to Hilda, blah blah blah, he's going to die after this conversation and Borghan the twit betrayed Fynn, nothing too exciting.  We do get a dead man's ring at least.  On the way back, Firion learns his first Incant, Smoke Bomb. Gotta say, having someone with a guaranteed escape will be nice.  Oh yeah Scott said Gordon's not complete garbage which, uh, sorry Scott but you're clearly wrong.  The king's upset that his future son-in-law died and that Borghan betrayed them, but he can't do anything about it because he's stuck in bed.  Hilda's impressed that we did that stupid stunt and lets us get mythril for her.   Even better, Minwu joins and gives us a free Hovercraft!  Lenora's on the case!   Much like the original games, Minwu has much higher stats and starts with a large variety of White Magic. Since this is FF4, this means he has Slow and other spells that aren't Slow and thus not as good as Slow. He can only use Staves and light armor, though oddly he can also use Shields. Works for me!  Thanks for the support, my favorite NPC.  Apparently this is a clue to some little side thing that may or may not be doable according to Tomato's notes. We'll see how things go.  Next time, we take the Hovercraft and start our adventure proper and see just what the hell's going on here. But before we go, time for a couple of decisions!  First off, should we use Version A (FF4 sprites) or Version B (hacked-in FF2 sprites)? Vote here and I'll go with the winner! Second, any suggestions on what to rename Firion, Maria, Guy, and Minwu? Or should we just stick to defaults? I'm fine however, if one choice runs away I might go with it, but if there's several contenders I may run a poll for each character that sticks out. I'll probably update soonish so make your choices as soon as possible!
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Jul 19, 2020 22:31
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Keep the default names, your choice on version A or B.
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Jul 19, 2020 23:04
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Keep the default names; that will make it a lot less awkward/confusing when trying to compare with the original FF2. As for sprites, I don't have a strong opinion but I voted B because hell, let's make this as FF2-like as we can.
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Jul 19, 2020 23:11
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I just found out about this literally only a few minutes ago, checking the LoL site. Good timing! Guy's battle sprite looks the worst to me, while you can tell the bases for some of the others (Maria uses Rosa's sprite, Leon uses Cecil's I think, and Firion maybe uses Edge's?), his just looks kinda odd to me.
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Jul 19, 2020 23:25
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Keep the default names and mourn the fact that it looks like we cant rename the loser knight butthead
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Jul 19, 2020 23:34
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Commander Keene posted:Guy's battle sprite looks the worst to me, while you can tell the bases for some of the others (Maria uses Rosa's sprite, Leon uses Cecil's I think, and Firion maybe uses Edge's?), his just looks kinda odd to me. looks sort of like TaY's Palom. I was going to say that maybe he should be Yang, but then remembered that Ninja Shakespeare will be Yang certainly. Cid without a beard? is the world able to deal with that crime?
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Jul 19, 2020 23:49
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Man i'm conflicted On the one hand FF4 without Rydia is just unacceptable but on the other hand, it's also FF4 without Edge... Anyway it's an interesting hack and i look forward to seeing how it goes (although i'd have respected it more if it gave Maria axes and made Guy the party's caster). e: also i'm dying to know the story behind your avatar 
vilkacis fucked around with this message at 00:38 on Jul 20, 2020 |
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Jul 20, 2020 00:35
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Keep the default names and version b for the sprites.
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Jul 20, 2020 00:36
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vilkacis posted:e: also i'm dying to know the story behind your avatar I felt like making something dumb a few months ago and that's the result, honestly there's nothing more elaborate beyond wanting a FF4 avatar for whatever reason and figuring "Rydia whipping Edge in the junk while also finding a way to incorporate beard puddle" would suffice. I was going to change it to the FF6 final boss tower but right before I was gonna buy it the Lowtax stuff got out so I donated that money to charity instead. I'll probably change it later but by coincidence it works out for this LP I guess.
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Jul 20, 2020 00:39
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That is a story as good as any other. 
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Jul 20, 2020 00:51
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Mega64 posted:"Rydia whipping Edge in the junk while also finding a way to incorporate beard puddle" would suffice.
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Jul 20, 2020 01:11
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Commander Keene posted:Oh god I didn't even notice FuSoYa in the background. Same, also on another random FuSoYa tangent apparently he is a liquid filled beard puddle in the PSP version of the sprite.
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Jul 20, 2020 01:18
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Cool idea for a hack, I understand why a traditional level-up system is being used but I wish the hack author would've tried to tame the FF2 stat gain system. Hopefully there's still some character customization that is possible.
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Jul 20, 2020 01:41
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After free enterprise runs, I will stan Bersk forever. I mean, Guy is right there, waiting to get bersked.
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Jul 20, 2020 01:59
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Girl Drink Drunk posted:Cool idea for a hack, I understand why a traditional level-up system is being used but I wish the hack author would've tried to tame the FF2 stat gain system. Hopefully there's still some character customization that is possible.
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Jul 20, 2020 03:13
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Johnny for Firion, in honor of our faithful toilet companion, and sprites A for the full bizarro-world effect this romhack has.
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Jul 20, 2020 04:07
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Hooray for LPs, playing games so I don't have to. I was super curious when I heard about this, but not enough to actually play it. Thanks Mega. Also, Leon there is totally Sonic.
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Jul 20, 2020 04:23
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Keep the names and go with B!
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Jul 20, 2020 04:49
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FeyerbrandX posted:Same, also on another random FuSoYa tangent apparently he is a liquid filled beard puddle in the PSP version of the sprite. That made me curious so if anyone is wondering: 
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Jul 20, 2020 08:45
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Commander Keene posted:The traditional level-up system is being used because it's what was in place in FF4; implementing any form of FF2's level-up system would have involved re-writing a significant portion of FF4's code. In assembly. At that point, you're better off coding it yourself, or scripting in RPGMaker or something. You're not wrong, but in a world where the Link to the Past/Super Metroid randomizer mash-up exists I'm thinking big. (though that hack was the product of years of work, I'm sure)
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Jul 20, 2020 14:43
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Girl Drink Drunk posted:You're not wrong, but in a world where the Link to the Past/Super Metroid randomizer mash-up exists I'm thinking big. (though that hack was the product of years of work, I'm sure) Also a massive coincidence that they tend to touch completely different parts of memory.
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Jul 20, 2020 15:03
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Armitage posted:Keep the names and go with B! 
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Jul 20, 2020 16:15
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My vote was for the hacked-in FF2 sprites. Weird translation-related question: Does the translation use names from the GBA/PSP version of FF2, or does it use the names from the NES fan-translation? (And I think Firion's sprite is based on Paladin Cecil's??)
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Jul 20, 2020 19:01
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Snorb posted:My vote was for the hacked-in FF2 sprites. Weird translation-related question: Does the translation use names from the GBA/PSP version of FF2, or does it use the names from the NES fan-translation? I think the names are from the GBA version, as Tomato said that's the translation he used for the story stuff. e: And yeah, default names/Version B won in a landslide. That makes things easier, should have the next update out today or tomorrow then.
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Jul 20, 2020 19:24
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It seems there's more differences between the two versions than just the enemy sprites. Here's a couple I've found. For one, Maria's starting summon besides Chocobo is either Gatling in Version A, or Cockatrice in Version B. The one time I tried Gatling it was underwhelming damage, so I'd assume Cockatrice is the superior option here.  Also Hilda's sprite is different. A is left, B is right. B doesn't even make any sense, as it doesn't really look like any of Hilda's sprites from the official games. There's probably several other differences too, but they all seem so minor that it's not really worth playing two different runs of it. Just a weird little thing. Mega64 fucked around with this message at 23:47 on Jul 20, 2020 |
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Jul 20, 2020 23:44
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FF2 in FF4's style, huh? Already an interesting concept on its own, definitely gonna be watching this one.
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Jul 21, 2020 00:09
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I might look into this. I've never beaten two. The encounters always fluctuated wildly between "impossible to lose" to "Jesus loving Christ please get my balls out of this vise" far too much for me, even in the same dungeon
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Jul 21, 2020 00:47
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That Hilda B sprite looks kinda like her sprite sheet from Final Fantasy Record Keeper, for what it's worth. But that said, FFRK is one of many dumb gacha games out there that's passed from the "decent gameplay" part of its lifecycle to the "overwrought bullshit" stage. I wouldn't blame you for not considering it official.
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Jul 21, 2020 02:31
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Surprised to see an LP of this come up so early, but not surprised at who started it. It does feel a little lame that outside of the overworld we're just getting the FF4 maps but I wonder if that's just because they didn't want to use the tilesets to re-make the FF2 maps. I recall the dungeons in that game being very bland.
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Jul 21, 2020 06:51
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I am definitely fine not having to deal with FF2's dungeon "design" again. At least FF4 is simple enough to explore and move around in.
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Jul 21, 2020 08:57
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Chapter 2 - "Final Fantasy 2B" By overwhelming demand, we're switching to Version B! This was an additional patch made by someone that's not the hack author, and though it seems the enemy sprites are supposed to be the only difference, I did notice a couple of small changes as well.  But first, here's those Black Knights in their FF2 glory. I'm not entirely sure which version this sprite is from, possibly Origins? It's not GBA, as I don't see any similar sprite in the sprite sheet for it.  One of those minor differences I mentioned is Hilda's sprite. Instead of being a recolor of a FF4 sprite, it's a lot simpler and seems to evoke a more retro feel, even though the NES sprite of Hilda doesn't really resemble this one. I prefer Version A myself, mostly due to the eyes and the hair having more color, but this one is fine enough.  The other difference I found is Maria's second starting summon. Instead of Gatling Rat, here it's Cockatrice. Considering Gatling Rat was underwhelming the one time I used it, I'll gladly have Cockatrice instead.     It seems most of the enemy sprites were ripped from the GBA version of FF2, which makes sense. I also want to say that Version B changes the encounters, as I didn't run into the FF4-only Float Eye out here in Version B like I did in Version A, but that could just be coincidence.  While encountering a four-pack of Goblins, I somehow lucked into a Soma Drop, which in FF4 and this hack raises Max MP by 10. Very great for Maria this early in the game. No clue if this is the rarest drop or what, but maybe after the LP I can take a dive into the data with FF4kster and if I'm lucky see what I can dig up.  I manage to pick up Aero, which is not a spell in either FF2 or FF4, so instead it's taking the FF3 route of Aero being a White Magic spell. Not sure how effective it is compared to the Black Magic spells, but more options can never hurt.   So you'd think with the Hovercraft you could navigate the world with ease, but the Hovercraft cannot cross forests. I wouldn't be surprised if this behavior was also in FF4 and just never came up there. Don't worry, though, we'll still do our sequence breaking in due time.  For now, let's visit Paloom.   Some new gear and weapon upgrades. I grab a Kunai for Firion, as the Battle Axe is a bit too expensive for now. Money's surprisingly tight in the early game, and I kind of like that change!  Oh yeah, Paloom uses the Troia town map.  These normally-random gil chests are actually useful for once! This alone is more than what we came in with!   Have your cake and eat it, too.   In addition to White Magic, Minwu has the Regen command, which sacrifices Minwu's next few turns to restore 10HP a round. Honestly, for such a paltry amount, this is probably one of the very few situations this command would ever be useful, as Minwu is no physical powerhouse and doesn't always have much to do with his White Magic.   Once you get the Ring (or it could be the Hovercraft), regular Chocobos appear in the Chocobo Forests. And unlike the Hovercraft, they can pass through forests.  First stop, Kashuan Keep!  This is the Eblan map, and all the doors are sealed.  In fact, the only thing of interest is one trapped chest.   Fortunately, one of Minwu's Curagas is enough to wipe the entire encounter. I'm guessing you were intended to explore this area early!  In a weird twist, both Firion and Maria just happen to learn Sleep at the same time. Maria also obtains the Hold spell.   Our reward is the Light Helmet, which only Firion can wear and which boosts our defenses a good bit. It may also raise stats, FF4 doesn't communicate stat gains from gear like FF3 did and I forgot to check the status screen to compare. I'd probably rather just check FF4kster anyway if it's compatible.  Of course, it's not a proper sequence break without an early trip to Mysidia (FF2), which naturally is...Agart. Alright, then. I'm gonna skip over the dialogue and stuff for now, as all we care about is the loot.  Well, except to share that the cave where we get the Crystal Rod later on is the Magnetic Cave, complete with that wonderful gimmick. Hooray...  Here's the late-game consumables. Hi-Potions are surprisingly affordable, though I have Minwu so they're of no concern.   Sadly, I can't afford most of this stuff. The Force Shield is interesting in that only Maria and Minwu can use it. Minwu can use other shields, but this is the first shield Maria can use, and it's cheap, so I grab it for her. I also grab an Ice Rod for Firion, as rods are going to be stronger than physical attacks for the next while. This means Guy gets Firion's sword and thus can actually hit reliably. Then it turns out I could actually buy an Ice Rod in Salamand, so I really only came out here for the early Force Shield! And...that's kind of it as far as sequence breaking goes. It's not nearly as exciting when it's part of the hack's intended design!  So on to Poft.  Some new consumables for status effects. Fair enough.  This shopkeeper has some weird coloring, I guess partly due to this being the map for Mythril?  Flying on Cid's airship is handled with different NPCs giving a Yes/No prompt on going to certain locations.   There's also a couple of interesting NPCs upstairs in the actual Inn part of the building.  For example, this random NPC spouting random Final Fantasy nonsense...  ...and a callback to FF6's own Maria.  Next up, Salamand. Of note is that the snow becomes desert, since there is no snow in FF4. Which naturally means Salamand uses Kaipo's map.   Some nice gear here, though the claws are currently useless. That Power ring can be used by Firion and Guy though, so I might grab one later...  The Snow Cavern has been replaced with Mt. Ordeals.  Nothing else has really changed here, so let's get the next plot hook from Josef.   Josef, who is flat-out Yang (and thus flat-out an improvement over original Josef) refuses to work with us until we free the men of Salamand captured by the Empire being held in Semite Falls.  So next time, we go to rescue them!
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Jul 21, 2020 22:04
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I already miss Josef's moustache.
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Jul 21, 2020 22:49
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ooh, glad to see this LP go up. I was considering doing an LP of this once I finished my first run of this game, but I see it's already in better hands.
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Jul 22, 2020 02:48
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Blaze Dragon posted:I already miss Josef's moustache. Since there's After Years based sprites in this game, you may not miss it for long. 
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Jul 22, 2020 03:01
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Version B does seem to change the encounters a fair bit, probably since they don't have to simply make do with the FF4 sprites. That said, they're also still significantly different from FF2's in some respects, with Sergeants rather than Captains in Fynn, and the Big Horns I'm pretty sure didn't show up until waaaaaay later in FF2 proper.
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Jul 22, 2020 04:54
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Rename Guy to three axes and a hammer.
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Jul 22, 2020 09:11
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ddegenha posted:Rename Guy to three axes and a hammer. n'thing this because I want to use non-standard characters but don't know how else to do it
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Jul 22, 2020 19:20
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| # ? Apr 29, 2024 08:38 |
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How long until the emperor kills 60+% of the world population in one day?
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Jul 23, 2020 02:53
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