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In my defense, I literally did not remember who Regula was.
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Dec 5, 2020 05:46
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lol Regula definitely read as "the enemy of our enemy" situation, begrudging battlefield alliance at bestWaffleman_ posted:In my defense, I literally did not remember who Regula was. Regula is the one whose combat data was programmed into Sapphire, no?
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Dec 5, 2020 05:47
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I've never done Bahamut so I don't know who ANY of the fuckers in these robots are
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Dec 5, 2020 05:49
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Regulus is from heavensward, in Azys Lla, and in the Warring Triad quests. He dies fighting Zurvan.
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Dec 5, 2020 05:50
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Waffleman_ posted:I've never done Bahamut so I don't know who ANY of the fuckers in these robots are DEFINITELY go solo the coils or try and drag a few friends to help you with the unsoloable ones. There's a ton of really really important story in there, especially in the second and last tiers.
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Dec 5, 2020 05:53
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:Regula is the one whose combat data was programmed into Sapphire, no? Regula is indeed the one in Sapphire Weapon. It's kinda understandable that someone might've missed that, since unlike Nael, he doesn't get a big spotlight cutscene, he just appears and gets lines partway through the fight where you're mostly preoccupied with piloting a straight-up Gundam.
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Dec 5, 2020 05:54
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I said it before and I said it again, everyone who cares at all about lore should at least do the raid, trial, and alliance series of each expansion because that's where the next MSQ thing always comes from
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Dec 5, 2020 06:01
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Cleretic posted:Regula is indeed the one in Sapphire Weapon. It's kinda understandable that someone might've missed that, since unlike Nael, he doesn't get a big spotlight cutscene, he just appears and gets lines partway through the fight where you're mostly preoccupied with piloting a straight-up Gundam. Yeah I'd guess whatever system they're using to try and make their artificial jobstones to power the Weapons probably picked up on the nutso poo poo that happened to Nael due to being Tempered and nobody knew it.
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Dec 5, 2020 06:10
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Hunter Noventa posted:Yeah I'd guess whatever system they're using to try and make their artificial jobstones to power the Weapons probably picked up on the nutso poo poo that happened to Nael due to being Tempered and nobody knew it. Although it's hard to say because I don't really recall anybody on the Garlean end commenting on how activating the Oversoul system caused the Ruby Weapon to summon loving Dalamud. Multiple times! At least, it looked like it did? It's not really all that clear what "really" happens when a primal takes you into their magical battlefield.
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Dec 5, 2020 06:11
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Jetrauben posted:Gaius is arguably in the inverse position, really - he's a genuine true believer in Nietzchean will-to-power and wants to actually help people. He's almost like a negafascist; he had no personal animus and seemingly refused to engage in genocide or the persecution of specific marginalized groups and wanted them all to flock to his banner...of authoritarian strongman pseudo-enlightened despot politics. gaius seems to be someone who should have been a genuinely good person but who had their moral core put through a woodchipper of fascist propaganda due to being a Garlean the end result is someone who isn't irredeemable, as the remnants of the good person he should have been lead him to avoid committing and even oppose the atrocities that his country normally commits against others even as he continued working to conquer and govern territory for it but he also isn't redeemed just because he's no longer working for the empire: he clearly hasn't actually rejected the actual tenets of imperialism and fascism that he was raised on, as it stands he very much still believes that conquering and forcibly assimilating people into an authoritarian state is good for them, actually, and that the issue with Garlemald is purely that it's been influenced by Ascians. As long as he continues believing this, he isn't redeemed. narratively he can't continue with both of these aspects, his arc has to lead to him either rejecting these fascist ideals entirely and becoming redeemed, or embracing them and becoming irredeemable. There is also the third option(which is EXTREMELY common for the "Honourable and Just Person Who Nevertheless Fully Believes In Evil Empire" character because it's way easier to write this one than either of the other two) which is that he dies heroically in order to prevent some kind of atrocity that he can't stomach without ever acknowledging that the ethos of the country he fought for directly lead to that atrocity happening. The way things look to me, though, is the Werlyt stuff, with people he cares about having their souls literally burned for fuel for the Garlean war effort, in a way that really has gently caress all to do with Ascian influence on Garlemald, is a great setup for him to come to terms with the fact that his ideology is inherently hosed up and not compatible with being a good person.
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Dec 5, 2020 06:51
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Mister Olympus posted:I said it before and I said it again, everyone who cares at all about lore should at least do the raid, trial, and alliance series of each expansion because that's where the next MSQ thing always comes from I thought it was interesting how they just nonchalantly dropped a new side story subcategory in the preliminary patch notes. Subcategories currently there include relic weapon lines, Hilidbrand, tribe capstones, and reconstruction lines. Interested to see if void quests go anywhere in the future.
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Dec 5, 2020 07:05
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also regula has one of the best themes in the game https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=916CXkqbENw
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Dec 5, 2020 09:40
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I feel like we should have a Livia Oversoul simply because of how incredibly uncomfortable it would be for Gaius.
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Dec 5, 2020 11:48
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The idea of Ysayle being antifa is a bit... how do I put it? Generally the best way to fight authoritarianism is not to let genocidal dragons slaughter the populace
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Dec 5, 2020 12:30
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thetoughestbean posted:The idea of Ysayle being antifa is a bit... how do I put it? Generally the best way to fight authoritarianism is not to let genocidal dragons slaughter the populace I dunno, have you tried? Maybe you just didn't use enough genocidal dragons. I never said Ysayle is anti-fascist or anti-authoritarian, but... I mean, she kinda is, by dictionary definition of 'against those things'. Ysayle's methods were questionable, and her deep-rooted motivations were based on a lie, but she did have noble aims, even if they were also based on misconceptions (namely 'dragons are better than Ishgard', which... I mean it's not a straight 'yes' or 'no' to that at the time, it's pretty complicated). Most importantly, she went out trying to take out a fascist empire's airship. it's hard to say that isn't the right thing to do.
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Dec 5, 2020 12:56
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Darth Walrus posted:I feel like we should have a Livia Oversoul simply because of how incredibly uncomfortable it would be for Gaius. And the rest of us.
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Dec 5, 2020 13:13
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Darth Walrus posted:I feel like we should have a Livia Oversoul simply because of how incredibly uncomfortable it would be for Gaius. It was in the Estinian main story solo scenario versus Arch Ultima.
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Dec 5, 2020 14:51
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On board with hoping that there's one barely-alive kid of Gaius' with enough breath in them to tell him how much they all hated him and how glad they were to die at the chance to make him miserable, and then die on the spot out of sheer spite before he has a chance to say a single word. I'm really not on board with any attempts to make me sympathize with mister this-was-NOT-my-intention-(I-wanted-CLEAN-ORDERLY-genocide) and feel more for his kids who I have no reason for caring about than I ever will for him.
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Dec 5, 2020 18:50
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Ysayle is basically the fantasy version of those people who travel overseas to join ISIS.
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Dec 5, 2020 18:53
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Tin Can Hit Man posted:On board with hoping that there's one barely-alive kid of Gaius' with enough breath in them to tell him how much they all hated him and how glad they were to die at the chance to make him miserable, and then die on the spot out of sheer spite before he has a chance to say a single word. Yeah this post reminded me the exact line that makes me think Gaius is still a total piece of poo poo: When he's describing the function of Black Rose to Estinien the precise words he uses as to why he opposes its use is "it will leave no new subjects for the Empire". He doesn't wanna use the unspeakable, ghastly superweapon because there won't be anyone left to enslave lmao
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Dec 5, 2020 19:17
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Tin Can Hit Man posted:On board with hoping that there's one barely-alive kid of Gaius' with enough breath in them to tell him how much they all hated him and how glad they were to die at the chance to make him miserable, and then die on the spot out of sheer spite before he has a chance to say a single word. it would probably be genuinely more upsetting to him if he gets to witness his children all doing their best to emulate him and live up to the ideals that he instilled in them by dying horribly and pointlessly in service to an uncaring fascist monolith powered by human suffering it's also more likely because that's the kind of "holy poo poo, look how loving wrong you are, look at how bad the inevitable results of your own ideology are" that it takes to make someone like gaius, who definitely believes himself to be a good person despite being 2 rungs from the top of a nightmarish dystopian government, accept that they have actually been completely loving evil up to that point, and that seems to be the way the story is heading
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Dec 5, 2020 19:20
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cock hero flux posted:it would probably be genuinely more upsetting to him if he gets to witness his children all doing their best to emulate him and live up to the ideals that he instilled in them by dying horribly and pointlessly in service to an uncaring fascist monolith powered by human suffering Oh, I know. I still *want* that to happen, though. Redemption or acceptance of wrong doing by Gaius is not something I really *care* about honestly. I simply don't *want* him on our side.
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Dec 5, 2020 19:30
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waitasec who are gaius' children?
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Dec 5, 2020 19:57
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The pilots of the Weapons in the Sorrow of Werlyt quests
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Dec 5, 2020 19:58
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As well as Livia and Lucia, uncomfortably enough.
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Dec 5, 2020 20:01
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Eox posted:As well as Livia and Lucia, uncomfortably enough. Only Livia. Lucia went to a different foster family
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Dec 5, 2020 20:03
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Every aspect of that subplot is a nightmare.
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Dec 5, 2020 20:05
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Gaius explicitly doesn't want genocide. It's the big thing I find questionable about calling him a straight fascist. He wants conquest, but he wants to induct the conquered into the Empire for their (in his eyes) and the Empire's benefit and is a big believer in meritocracy. Gaius is an imperialist, but he doesn't have the Nazi focus on wiping out the underclass.
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Dec 5, 2020 20:43
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Jetrauben posted:Gaius explicitly doesn't want genocide. It's the big thing I find questionable about calling him a straight fascist. He wants conquest, but he wants to induct the conquered into the Empire for their (in his eyes) and the Empire's benefit and is a big believer in meritocracy. Didn’t Gaius have leaflets demanding the slaughter of the beast tribes dropped over Eorzea in 1.0?
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Dec 5, 2020 20:47
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Jetrauben posted:Gaius explicitly doesn't want genocide. It's the big thing I find questionable about calling him a straight fascist. He wants conquest, but he wants to induct the conquered into the Empire for their (in his eyes) and the Empire's benefit and is a big believer in meritocracy. Slavery might not be extermination but one look at how the Empire treats its "auxiliaries" should show how much of a difference that makes.
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Dec 5, 2020 21:08
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Jetrauben posted:Gaius explicitly doesn't want genocide. It's the big thing I find questionable about calling him a straight fascist. He wants conquest, but he wants to induct the conquered into the Empire for their (in his eyes) and the Empire's benefit and is a big believer in meritocracy. Fascism doesn't always mean genocide though. And genocide doesn't always mean killing everyone of a particular group or race. Genocide can be suppression, oppression, assimilation and subjugation of said race until their unique identity and culture no longer exist or are remembered.
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Dec 5, 2020 22:00
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Tin Can Hit Man posted:Fascism doesn't always mean genocide though. And genocide doesn't always mean killing everyone of a particular group or race. Genocide can be suppression, oppression, assimilation and subjugation of said race until their unique identity and culture no longer exist or are remembered. This is an entirely valid point, though I personally think the pressure for total genocide and extermination of underclass groups is intrinsic to the core of fascism. I just feel like it's kind of a weird case where Gaius' authoritarian imperialism doesn't directly interact with a lot of what made real world fascists so much worse than other (still bad!) forms of imperialism. "Induct these other nations into your own" is like Standard Empire 101. Chillgamesh posted:Slavery might not be extermination but one look at how the Empire treats its "auxiliaries" should show how much of a difference that makes. True, although the game also tried to have Gaius be the big Roman style champion of induction and integration. The obvious problem is where we hit the Garlean aggressive hatred for other nations' religion and therefore culture. It's hard because I don't personally know how much I think you can directly apply the word fascist outside of the modern context. It's very much not my saying that Gaius was a good person or not an imperialist rear end in a top hat. thetoughestbean posted:Didn’t Gaius have leaflets demanding the slaughter of the beast tribes dropped over Eorzea in 1.0? I actually don't know, I didn't play 1.0. 
Jetrauben fucked around with this message at 22:20 on Dec 5, 2020 |
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Dec 5, 2020 22:14
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Yeah, Gaius thinks the genocide of anyone that summons primals is A-OK. At the time it was only beast tribes, but we know that's not the case. He'd prefer to subjugate and indoctrinate, but death is fine for the rest.
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Dec 5, 2020 22:42
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Were getting another weapon in 5.5, right? I wonder if the orphans might turn to primal summoning to augment diamond weapon out of desperation or something. Would be an interesting twist on that mindset
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Dec 5, 2020 22:47
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:Yeah, Gaius thinks the genocide of anyone that summons primals is A-OK. At the time it was only beast tribes, but we know that's not the case. I got the impression he didn't see any essential difference between Spoken and "beast tribes?" It was all just Garlean's Burden bullshit.
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Dec 5, 2020 23:14
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they made Gaius super hot so unfortunately he's definitely going to be shown to be sympathetic if not reformed
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Dec 5, 2020 23:32
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Countblanc posted:they made Gaius super hot 
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Dec 5, 2020 23:35
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Countblanc posted:they made Gaius super hot so unfortunately he's definitely going to be shown to be sympathetic if not reformed  
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Dec 5, 2020 23:36
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cheetah7071 posted:Were getting another weapon in 5.5, right? I wonder if the orphans might turn to primal summoning to augment diamond weapon out of desperation or something. Would be an interesting twist on that mindset If you talk to the warmachina fanatic the ones we've fought have likely already eaten a couple primals.
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Dec 5, 2020 23:43
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Countblanc posted:they made Gaius super hot so unfortunately he's definitely going to be shown to be sympathetic if not reformed We call "Evil but attractive" people 'Morally Grey' now
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Dec 6, 2020 01:34
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