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Orcs and Ostriches
Aug 26, 2010


The Great Twist
I like having a subsection of content that's sequestered away that needs some prep and consumables. I liked having poisons and spell components (and ammo) in wow, and I like survival mechanics in some games for the same reason. Prep for the journey, plan item needs and quantities, and then make it happen.

Almost everything else is just drop in and play. Some cheap food in content if you're not a scrub, and a potion here and there for higher difficulty stuff, but that's about it. Don't need it everywhere but it's nice to see it somewhere.

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lines
Aug 18, 2013

She, laughing in mockery, changed herself into a wren and flew away.
I quite like it.

God Hole
Mar 2, 2016

can you even design a zone so that it's accessible for people starting out, but still fun to play once everyone has permanently 'unlocked' re-raiser, excellence, blood rage, etc? instead of having those actions be scarce in some way and thus actually consequential when you use them

Vitamean
May 31, 2012

Maybe making the buff potions permanent and the actions farmable? Could have them unlock over time and have optional objectives for the stronger/goofy ones (like gambler). Bozja removing the crafting failure from Eureka and adding the bag made it almost perfect for me but I think that'd be an improvement overall.

Mordiceius
Nov 10, 2007

If you think calling me names is gonna get a rise out me, think again. I like my life as an idiot!

Vitamean posted:

Maybe making the buff potions permanent and the actions farmable?

I would actually be 100% okay with that compromise. I'm not there to perfectly optimize myself for the content, I'm just there to get through it. I'm going to throw a buff on, do the content and move on. I have no interest in adding additional temporary abilities to my build.

Rand Brittain
Mar 25, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."
My request would have been to have a single consumable that fuels all the lost abilities with a relatively low cap, so that in between Delubrum runs you always have to do a bit of Bozja to recharge, but not an egregious amount.

FuturePastNow
May 19, 2014


I'd bet that if there are alliance raid style fights in the next battlezone they will probably have their own mini duty finder like the variant dungeons do. That seems to be the UI element du jour

Azubah
Jun 5, 2007

Can't you get permanent buffs in Bozja after you hit the max rank and complete the story?

Orcs and Ostriches
Aug 26, 2010


The Great Twist
You can get permanent damage/healing/health increases once you're max mettle and have completed Zadnor, yeah.

hexwren
Feb 27, 2008

my main thing is that i can't get anywhere in boz or eur because i generally play alone at three in the morning when i get home from work and the onboarding for both zones is extremely dogshit. they may well have gotten rebalances since their launch, but they're both zones that rely on you not trying to solo them with no idea what you're doing

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

Vitamean posted:

My most vivid memory of 3.1 Diadem was everyone in the zone piling in on the Brachiosaur FATE and a sudden realization hitting me when it started casting Meteor. I do think it's funny that you just never see those dinosaur models again unless you do deep dungeon or that one CE in Zadnor.

lmao

Hogama
Sep 3, 2011
https://twitter.com/strbrryseason/status/1765509910698029101
The whole article is in the follow-up tweets but for ease of access (and not needing Twitter)

1stGear
Jan 16, 2010

Here's to the new us.
That's a neat interview, but one of the things that jumps out to me is Yoshida saying one of his motivations for the graphical update was letting the artists and engineers work with newer pipelines and technology to better advance their careers. He's such an insanely good boss.

Chomposaur
Feb 28, 2010




It's a good tactical move too, because once the tech stack gets outdated enough it gets much harder to recruit people willing and able to work on it. And also it seems like Square has a lot of staff jumping between projects, so keeping people sharp and current on their skills helps out there. And just helps keep people sharp in general instead of fossilizing around one particular old way of doing things. As good as stability is, it's also exciting to work on new stuff, gotta have a balance.

lines
Aug 18, 2013

She, laughing in mockery, changed herself into a wren and flew away.
Also given that FF16 seems to use some version of the 14 engine somewhere under the hood, I gotta assume unifying the two approaches there was useful + necessary.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


Ignore my posts!
I'm aggressively wrong about everything!

1stGear posted:

That's a neat interview, but one of the things that jumps out to me is Yoshida saying one of his motivations for the graphical update was letting the artists and engineers work with newer pipelines and technology to better advance their careers. He's such an insanely good boss.

It's such a good angle, because I sometimes think about what I once saw mentioned as a problem that people who worked on Duke Nukem Forever had back when that was vaporware. They left the project that was obviously going nowhere, only to be left with outdated skills from a game that was stuck in development hell for years, and a big portfolio gap for that game they worked on for years with nothing to show for it.

Kheldarn
Feb 17, 2011



Based on data mining of the 6.58 patch, if Dawntrail's release date isn't announced at PAX East this weekend, it probably won't be too long after...

Don't read the following spoiler if you don't want to know what was datamined:
The Pre-Order XP Boost Earrings are Azeyma's Earrings, with the standard +30% XP for Jobs 90 or below, and the Minion is Wind-Up Zidane.

Mordiceius
Nov 10, 2007

If you think calling me names is gonna get a rise out me, think again. I like my life as an idiot!

Kheldarn posted:

Based on data mining of the 6.58 patch, if Dawntrail's release date isn't announced at PAX East this weekend, it probably won't be too long after...

Don't read the following spoiler if you don't want to know what was datamined:
The Pre-Order XP Boost Earrings are Azeyma's Earrings, with the standard +30% XP for Jobs 90 or below, and the Minion is Wind-Up Zidane.

At mention of the minion, imagine me doing the Jack Nicholson nodding gif

Galaga Galaxian
Apr 23, 2009

What a childish tactic!
Don't you think you should put more thought into your battleplan?!


Kheldarn posted:


The Pre-Order XP Boost Earrings are Azeyma's Earrings

If this is true then I’m gonna need a mod that puts Menphina’s earring on one ear and Azeyma’s earring on the other ear. I want to rep both sisters!

Kheldarn
Feb 17, 2011



Galaga Galaxian posted:

If this is true then I’m gonna need a mod that puts Menphina’s earring on one ear and Azeyma’s earring on the other ear. I want to rep both sisters!

It is. You can already access it, and the FF16 crossover stuff via Anamnesis.

PlasticAutomaton
Nov 12, 2016

Artoria Pendonut


Can someone remind me what the cure for tempering was and why there were porxies involved? I've got a blind spot in my end of SHB memories.

Zeruel
Mar 27, 2010

Alert: bad post spotted.
something about aether imbalance?

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


Ignore my posts!
I'm aggressively wrong about everything!

PlasticAutomaton posted:

Can someone remind me what the cure for tempering was and why there were porxies involved? I've got a blind spot in my end of SHB memories.

Basically, the way tempering works is both an overaspecting of a certain element, and towards umbral/light; therefore, it wasn't dissimilar to sin eater corruption. Because of that, the porxie strategy that Beq Lugg came up with, to use a familiar to really juice up some aether stimulating magics, could be adapted for it.

I don't think it's specifically a porxie for any special reason. It could be any familiar.

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

Yep. Tempering is overwhelming a person's aether with that aspected toward the Primal. The same as what happened to people on the First who got hit by light aether and turned into Sin Eaters. As a side effect of the research needed to get the Scions home, they figured out how to cleanse the aether of people who had been affected but hadn't become Sin Eaters yet. Then once home they adapted that to tempered who hadn't yet fully turned.

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

Cleretic posted:

I don't think it's specifically a porxie for any special reason. It could be any familiar.

This. Beqq Luqq taught Alisaie how to make a porxie familiar, so that's the template she used when making the Mother Porxie in Matoya's Relict.

Veev
Oct 21, 2010

K is for kid.
A guy or gal just like you.
Dont be in such a hurry to grow up, since there's nothin' a kid can't do.
They turned a pig into a vacuum and sucked the aether out of you.

girl dick energy
Sep 30, 2009

You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

Veev posted:

They turned a pig into a vacuum and sucked the aether out of you.
This is also how actual porxies work according to the Pixie tribe quest.

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!



It's one tremendous radiant humble thingamajig of a familiar.

Akett
Aug 6, 2012

It's a porxie because tempering was only cured when pigs fly.

lines
Aug 18, 2013

She, laughing in mockery, changed herself into a wren and flew away.
Porxies are specifically good at sucking up bad stuff too so I guess that helps.

orcane
Jun 13, 2012

Fun Shoe
they're also very tasty according to that amaro

iPodschun
Dec 29, 2004

Sherlock House

Bruceski posted:

Yep. Tempering is overwhelming a person's aether with that aspected toward the Primal. The same as what happened to people on the First who got hit by light aether and turned into Sin Eaters. As a side effect of the research needed to get the Scions home, they figured out how to cleanse the aether of people who had been affected but hadn't become Sin Eaters yet. Then once home they adapted that to tempered who hadn't yet fully turned.
We also had a field trip to Azys Lla because an Allagan researcher had some info on tempering, which gave us the cutscene where Alisaie thinks the password to the node might be “password” and the node calls her an idiot for it.

We also get a Nero cameo when they get Cid and friends to extract the anti-tempering spell from the node, and then test the spell on Ga Bu who is cured of his tempering successfully.

Shogeton
Apr 26, 2007

"Little by little the old world crumbled, and not once did the king imagine that some of the pieces might fall on him"

You know, a thought I had is how few of the Ascians are team players
Lahabrea seems to be having his personal goals, very possibly related to the heart of Sabiq
Igeyorhm doesn't really say anything, but Lahabrea was pretty casual about soul merging with her, so she's likely along with any schemes he has
Nabriales definitely was up to some solo stuff. Not necessarily opposed to Zodiark and all.
Emet-Selch was still trying, but on the other hand, was so tired he invited the heroes to come and end him
Mitron after some time as Eden didn't give one gently caress about the plan anymore and just wanted to be with Loghrif forever
Loghrif, in her current incarnation, might not count as an Ascian, but she's definitely not on the team anymore
Fandaniel is Fandaniel

Only one seems to be our Emmisary, ironically the one who is the first to reach out to us to make friends.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


Ignore my posts!
I'm aggressively wrong about everything!

Shogeton posted:

You know, a thought I had is how few of the Ascians are team players
Lahabrea seems to be having his personal goals, very possibly related to the heart of Sabiq
Igeyorhm doesn't really say anything, but Lahabrea was pretty casual about soul merging with her, so she's likely along with any schemes he has
Nabriales definitely was up to some solo stuff. Not necessarily opposed to Zodiark and all.
Emet-Selch was still trying, but on the other hand, was so tired he invited the heroes to come and end him
Mitron after some time as Eden didn't give one gently caress about the plan anymore and just wanted to be with Loghrif forever
Loghrif, in her current incarnation, might not count as an Ascian, but she's definitely not on the team anymore
Fandaniel is Fandaniel

Only one seems to be our Emmisary, ironically the one who is the first to reach out to us to make friends.

Yeah it turns out giving a little under a dozen people immense power and the memories of an ancient world that you promise is totally real you guys doesn't actually foster teamwork and collaboration, it just fosters a bunch of loose cannons that you can vaguely aim but will go off on their own if you leave them unsupervised.

the_steve
Nov 9, 2005

We're always hiring!

Shogeton posted:

You know, a thought I had is how few of the Ascians are team players
Lahabrea seems to be having his personal goals, very possibly related to the heart of Sabiq
Igeyorhm doesn't really say anything, but Lahabrea was pretty casual about soul merging with her, so she's likely along with any schemes he has
Nabriales definitely was up to some solo stuff. Not necessarily opposed to Zodiark and all.
Emet-Selch was still trying, but on the other hand, was so tired he invited the heroes to come and end him
Mitron after some time as Eden didn't give one gently caress about the plan anymore and just wanted to be with Loghrif forever
Loghrif, in her current incarnation, might not count as an Ascian, but she's definitely not on the team anymore
Fandaniel is Fandaniel

Only one seems to be our Emmisary, ironically the one who is the first to reach out to us to make friends.

I thought the point was that they were supposed to work on their own shards. Like, Lohgrif and Mitron were supposed to take care of the First and cause the Rejoining of Light, so on and so forth, and then Emet or whoever was up on the docket worked on the Source to get it ready to receive the calamity.

FuturePastNow
May 19, 2014


It seems to me the three unsundered were the only ones who could actually carry out the plan, and hell even two of them had their brains half-melted so really all the actual planning per se was done by Emet, and then Elidibus steered all the other "bringers of chaos" into whatever direction needed chaos at that moment

Lord_Magmar
Feb 24, 2015

"Welcome to pound town, Slifer slacker!"


FuturePastNow posted:

It seems to me the three unsundered were the only ones who could actually carry out the plan, and hell even two of them had their brains half-melted so really all the actual planning per se was done by Emet, and then Elidibus steered all the other "bringers of chaos" into whatever direction needed chaos at that moment

Lahabrea was in charge of actually causing the Calamities on the Source it seems, and was the one primarily recruiting and empowering the Black Mask Ascians that you see early on. Emet was the one who made plans and rebuilt empires/worlds for Lahabrea to use in the future. Elidibus handled heroes and the opposition to their plans to keep things on track, as well as controlling the whole group via being the leader/voice of Zodiark.

If it wasn't for Lahabrea going rogue at precisely the moment he did, the Ascians might have been able to outplay the Scions over a longer period of time. But Lahabrea went rogue at precisely the time he did, and we now know he was pretending to cause a calamity whilst actually trying to empower the Heart of Sabik and revive Athena probably.

Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 05:01 on Apr 1, 2024

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


Ignore my posts!
I'm aggressively wrong about everything!

the_steve posted:

I thought the point was that they were supposed to work on their own shards. Like, Lohgrif and Mitron were supposed to take care of the First and cause the Rejoining of Light, so on and so forth, and then Emet or whoever was up on the docket worked on the Source to get it ready to receive the calamity.

This doesn't actually seem to be true; while Igeyorhm was the one that hosed up the Thirteenth and Loghrif and Mitron were doing their machinations on the First, it seems everyone else (including Igeyorhm over the course of the game) was focused on the Source. Even the assumption of us causing an emergency situation so people hosed with the Source on their off-hours doesn't actually track, because Emmerololth tried to trigger a Calamity with Eureka in the early 2.x range.

I'm pretty sure nobody ever said they were trying to divvy up the shards like this, but even if they did, they were failing at that division of labor from before we even knew that was the plan.

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

Lord_Magmar posted:

But Lahabrea went rogue at precisely the time he did, and we now know he was pretending to cause a calamity whilst actually trying to empower the Heart of Sabik and revive Athena probably.

My take on it is more that they got twisted up in his head rather than deception, but any interpretation is kinda reading between the lines of what was left unsaid. "He let himself get infected with the memetic virus he tore his soul in half to avoid because he felt every tool available was necessary for the task of the Unsundered" is kinda the last concrete bit of info we have. Whether that made him more obsessive and reckless in his task or actually changed his goals is more ambiguous.

As for the Sundered Ascians, I don't think they were given specific places of focus, but rather were recruited/aimed where needed. Mitron and Lohgrif, for example, were explicitly created from the shards of them that were on the First.

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Lord_Magmar
Feb 24, 2015

"Welcome to pound town, Slifer slacker!"


Bruceski posted:

My take on it is more that they got twisted up in his head rather than deception, but any interpretation is kinda reading between the lines of what was left unsaid. "He let himself get infected with the memetic virus he tore his soul in half to avoid because he felt every tool available was necessary for the task of the Unsundered" is kinda the last concrete bit of info we have. Whether that made him more obsessive and reckless in his task or actually changed his goals is more ambiguous.

As for the Sundered Ascians, I don't think they were given specific places of focus, but rather were recruited/aimed where needed. Mitron and Lohgrif, for example, were explicitly created from the shards of them that were on the First.

My assumption is more or less that Lahabrea never specifies Zodiark as the divinity he is trying to revive, and later stuff makes it clear Zodiark isn't dead and Elidibus outright says Lahabrea acted on his own during ARR. by HW he's back on the main plan, Thordan is a Light Calamity to match the First.

As far as the other shards Convocation/Red Mask Members. Yeah my guess is that they only recruit them when they want to prepare a shard for rejoining. So Mitron/Lohgrif were found when they needed to prepare the First for rejoining, and on another shard they'd awaken whatever red masks aren't currently filled on the Source for whatever reason. Part of said recruitment is probably promising to do the thing that we do with Ardbert in reverse. If you become a Red Mask you get to become the one in control of your rejoined self instead of the larger fragment on the source.

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