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dogsicle
Oct 23, 2012



Nuebot posted:

So does anyone have any build advice for Keqing? I've looked up some builds but almost all of them seem to assume if you have a 5* character then you're just going to whale for top tier weapons too which I'm not really going to do so I don't know how to make my character do good damage using what I can get in-game.

either of the craftable swords can be good for her depending on how you play. Iron Sting is the safer choice since she naturally spams her skill/burst and also converts her damage to elec afterwards, but apparently you can build her for physical damage (Prototype Rancor) and somehow use her skill in a way that bypasses the elec conversion. the wording on the talents is not at all clear to me and i don't have her to test that, so

with her inherent ascension stat being crit dmg%, she would also fit well with the BP sword assuming you hit BP lv30 and buy into that (certainly more reliable than gacha pulls), since it'll boost her crit rate and gives her some durability.

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YoshiOfYellow
Aug 21, 2015

Voted #1 Babysitter in Mushroom Kingdom


Been pulling on standard banner to try to get someone, anyone to expand my roster.

I've pulled two Lisa dupes.

Archonex
May 2, 2012

MY OPINION IS SEERS OF THE THRONE PROPAGANDA IGNORE MY GNOSIS-IMPAIRED RAMBLINGS

YoshiOfYellow posted:

Been pulling on standard banner to try to get someone, anyone to expand my roster.

I've pulled two Lisa dupes.



To be fair, Lisa supposedly gets really good at a certain constellation unlock. Apparently she turns into an AOEing reaction monster due to all of her abilities causing lightning damage. I'd have to check it again to be sure.

gandlethorpe
Aug 16, 2008



I wanna use Lisa more, but her hold is just so excrutiatingly slow. If that was sped up a bit, she'd instantly be a regular on my team.

Constellation 2 does make it more reliable, though. Constellation 6 looks incredibly spicy.

Is her E with 3 stacks the highest scaling attack in the game?

Tabletops
Jan 27, 2014

anime

gandlethorpe posted:

I wanna use Lisa more, but her hold is just so excrutiatingly slow. If that was sped up a bit, she'd instantly be a regular on my team.

Constellation 2 does make it more reliable, though. Constellation 6 looks incredibly spicy.

Is her E with 3 stacks the highest scaling attack in the game?

if amber's ult counts, no. hers is higher.

dogsicle
Oct 23, 2012



she seems like an amber, good potential but needing more constellation investment and/or time to setup to get results other characters are churning out much more easily.

Tabletops
Jan 27, 2014

anime

dogsicle posted:

she seems like an amber, good potential but needing more constellation investment and/or time to setup to get results other characters are churning out much more easily.

not nearly as bad as amber. her ult alone even though difficult to charge, is pretty amazing for comboing.

TheFluff
Dec 13, 2006

FRIENDS, LISTEN TO ME
I AM A SEAGULL
OF WEALTH AND TASTE


Slippery Tilde

Archonex posted:

If my pity five was Mona should I bother trying to get Venti? It seems like the Gacha is kind of bullshit given the rate that pities kick in. 90 rolls for a character at a ridiculously low rate (and in the case of Venti will require like a thousand dollars worth of rolls to get to a decent constellation) is absolutely absurd.

Nah, don't bother IMO. Mona is very good, I got her on roll 80 and stopped rolling at that point. I was hoping for Venti or Jean and didn't know much about Mona at all but I'm very happy with her now that I've played her a bit. Her E is quite spammable and does a ton of damage all of its own, but in addition to that it also adds a +42% damage taken debuff to all enemies hit by it (at talent 0, increases with talent level). It only lasts for 4 seconds, but it's triggered on damage so you have time to do something like Mona E -> Fischl E -> Xiangling E all in one go and do a gazillion damage. Her Q is also a quite useful taunt that also does damage and helps a lot with managing chaff aggro in the abyss. She doesn't group up enemies in one place like Venti does but her E does immobilize weaker enemies and the damage debuff is definitely nothing to sneeze at.

TheFluff fucked around with this message at 02:10 on Oct 18, 2020

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.


Hazdoc posted:

Negative. That's only true for Mondstadt's shop, Liyue's has no such restriction.



Just checked, it's locked.

_jink
Jan 13, 2006



TV Zombie posted:

Is Xingqui good?

i've used him as second team support up through abyss10 & he seems pretty good. his healing isn't particularly impressive, so it can be difficult to recover from mistakes, but he adds a shitload of damage. requires a bit of investment though. you want energy regen, hp for his healing, hydro damage for mitigation, all on top of the regular damage stats to scale his swords (as opposed to barbara who you can give a support tome/set, some hp, and call it a day).

Nuebot posted:

So does anyone have any build advice for Keqing? I've looked up some builds but almost all of them seem to assume if you have a 5* character then you're just going to whale for top tier weapons too which I'm not really going to do so I don't know how to make my character do good damage using what I can get in-game.

you can build her either phys or electro. for phys the battlepass sword or the free one from the story are fine, electro wants lion's roar (4* gatcha). phys gets the bloodstained artifact set, electro thundering, with mainstat atk/crit -- except on the goblet, which can roll phys/electro damage.

for party comp phys wants an ice support to apply superconductor, then you just machinegun charge attacks. both builds want fischl since she's a high dmg support & enables the electro resonance. otherwise bring along whatever: a water char, ameno to group mobs up, xiang (if you don't need her as second team dps), etc. avoid characters like chong who change your normal attack element, since that nullifies your damage bonuses.

dogsicle posted:

and somehow use her skill in a way that bypasses the elec conversion

using a charge attack when the dagger is out detonates it, preventing electro mode

Inzombiac
Mar 19, 2007

PARTY ALL NIGHT, EAT BRAINS ALL DAY



Doing the second area without the traveler in your party is kind of a pain. There are geo puzzles that are hard or impossible with Noelle.

My primary team is stellar but my only source of cryo is the free dude and fire puzzles are much easier with Amber than Xiangling.

Wish there was a hot key to swap teams.

Hazdoc
Nov 8, 2012

Muscovy Ducks are a large tropical breed, famous for their lean and extremely flavorful meat.

Hazduck!

~SMcD

Bruceski posted:



Just checked, it's locked.

ah they throw the ol' "you can select the option but not actually do anything once you've selected it" trick.

TheFluff
Dec 13, 2006

FRIENDS, LISTEN TO ME
I AM A SEAGULL
OF WEALTH AND TASTE


Slippery Tilde

Inzombiac posted:

Doing the second area without the traveler in your party is kind of a pain. There are geo puzzles that are hard or impossible with Noelle.

My primary team is stellar but my only source of cryo is the free dude and fire puzzles are much easier with Amber than Xiangling.

Wish there was a hot key to swap teams.

There's one particularly infuriating puzzle in Liyue that requires an anemo character and a geo character in your party at the same time, and in order to trigger the geo part with Noelle you basically also need a cryo user too because the geo altar is out in the water and you have a quite limited time window to get to it. Since I don't have any anemo characters other than MC, that one took me a lot of fiddling and changing the MC's element before I got it.

frajaq
Jan 30, 2009

#acolyte GM of 2014




they really need to pay extra for Paimon's English VA, the way she said this

Archonex
May 2, 2012

MY OPINION IS SEERS OF THE THRONE PROPAGANDA IGNORE MY GNOSIS-IMPAIRED RAMBLINGS

TheFluff posted:

Nah, don't bother IMO. Mona is very good, I got her on roll 80 and stopped rolling at that point. I was hoping for Venti or Jean and didn't know much about Mona at all but I'm very happy with her now that I've played her a bit. Her E is quite spammable and does a ton of damage all of its own, but in addition to that it also adds a +42% damage taken debuff to all enemies hit by it (at talent 0, increases with talent level). It only lasts for 4 seconds, but it's triggered on damage so you have time to do something like Mona E -> Fischl E -> Xiangling E all in one go and do a gazillion damage. Her Q is also a quite useful taunt that also does damage and helps a lot with managing chaff aggro in the abyss. She doesn't group up enemies in one place like Venti does but her E does immobilize weaker enemies and the damage debuff is definitely nothing to sneeze at.

I figured. Mona hits like a truck with her E. When I get her final talent she'll also get a massive damage boost due to her stats increasing energy recharge as she levels up, Favonius Codex, and the fact that her last talent increases her hydro damage by like 20% of her energy recharge percentage.

That being said, didn't people say that her E only increases damage for her? There was a bit of a controversy over that.


Edit: Also, just an FYI for people but luxurious and precious chests respawn. I've personally had the luxurious chest on top of the Favonius Knights HQ respawn and give me primogems. One of those chests is in the northland bank and gives like 200k Mora. So check back every week or so (No one knows the rate these things respawn. It seems to be on some sort of randomized chanced based system or a time based interval system.) and you have a chance to kiss your money woes goodbye.

Archonex fucked around with this message at 02:35 on Oct 18, 2020

Tae
Oct 24, 2010

Hello? Can you hear me? ...Perhaps if I shout? AAAAAAAAAH!


Keqing's other main thing is that it takes the mostly useless Crit stat and makes it work because her natural crit base is like 60+ percent.

Archonex
May 2, 2012

MY OPINION IS SEERS OF THE THRONE PROPAGANDA IGNORE MY GNOSIS-IMPAIRED RAMBLINGS

Tae posted:

Keqing's other main thing is that it takes the mostly useless Crit stat and makes it work because her natural crit base is like 60+ percent.

Crit is definitely not useless. It's one of the things responsible for those insane 10-40K damage moves that keep going up on Youtube and their asian equivalents.

Archonex fucked around with this message at 02:36 on Oct 18, 2020

TheFluff
Dec 13, 2006

FRIENDS, LISTEN TO ME
I AM A SEAGULL
OF WEALTH AND TASTE


Slippery Tilde

Archonex posted:

I figured. Mona hits like a truck with her E. When I get her final talent she'll also get a massive damage boost due to her stats increasing energy recharge as she levels up, Favonius Codex, and the fact that her last talent increases her hydro damage by like 20% of her energy recharge percentage.

That being said, didn't people say that her E only increases damage for her? There was a bit of a controversy over that.

Yeah part of the reason her Q is so spammable is that you naturally want to build her for energy recharge because of that passive.

I've heard that thing too but if it ever worked like that then it was bugged because the description now just says "increases damage taken by enemies" with no mention of which character has to do the damage. I've tested it myself just earlier tonight and it definitely works with other characters, so it's not bugged now.

e: I'm dumb, I meant her Q when I wrote E earlier. I'm talking about her ult, that one is the one that definitely increases damage for everyone.

Archonex posted:

Crit is definitely not useless.

Compared to +%ATK it kinda is until very late in the game. Building crit instead of ATK is just a DPS loss and not worth it until you have a full set of 5* artifacts, but at that point it becomes good when built in the correct proportions. The guy with the spreadsheet guide has mathed it out with graphs and everything.

TheFluff fucked around with this message at 02:37 on Oct 18, 2020

berenzen
Jan 23, 2012

Wings Out



Archonex posted:

I figured. Mona hits like a truck with her E. When I get her final talent she'll also get a massive damage boost due to her stats increasing energy recharge as she levels up, Favonius Codex, and the fact that her last talent increases her hydro damage by like 20% of her energy recharge percentage.

That being said, didn't people say that her E only increases damage for her? There was a bit of a controversy over that.

Her Q increases damage for everyone, and just does a stupid amount of damage in it's own right as well- I'm hitting for about 6-7k on just her Q burst at level 55 with a level 60 Favonian Codex at the moment. I'm super pumped right now to hit AR35 and get the boost. I have ~250% Energy recharge right now, so that's about a 50% damage boost to her damage. I'm using the exile and scholar 2 sets to get her recharge up, and I rolled a Hydro% exile, Recharge% and Attack% for her artifacts.

Archonex
May 2, 2012

MY OPINION IS SEERS OF THE THRONE PROPAGANDA IGNORE MY GNOSIS-IMPAIRED RAMBLINGS

TheFluff posted:

Compared to +%ATK it kinda is until very late in the game. Building crit instead of ATK is just a DPS loss and not worth it until you have a full set of 5* artifacts, but at that point it becomes good when built in the correct proportions. The guy with the spreadsheet guide has mathed it out with graphs and everything.

That's true. Crit is at it's best via weapon skills and certain builds until late game. At which point you're going to have access to epics and legendaries. Which have a high chance of getting a crit or crit damage bonus. Which means you can do insane amounts of damage with the right artifact set up.

I mean, i've seen people post videos on Reddit of Barbara of all people just slapping the absolute poo poo out of elite bosses with consistent 10-40k hit attacks by abusing crit and how it scales with attack stat boosting. And that's a dedicated healer. Actual high damage single attack oriented characters seem able to potentially one shot some bosses.

Archonex fucked around with this message at 02:43 on Oct 18, 2020

Tabletops
Jan 27, 2014

anime

TheFluff posted:

Yeah part of the reason her Q is so spammable is that you naturally want to build her for energy recharge because of that passive.

I've heard that thing too but if it ever worked like that then it was bugged because the description now just says "increases damage taken by enemies" with no mention of which character has to do the damage. I've tested it myself just earlier tonight and it definitely works with other characters, so it's not bugged now.

e: I'm dumb, I meant her Q when I wrote E earlier. I'm talking about her ult, that one is the one that definitely increases damage for everyone.


Compared to +%ATK it kinda is until very late in the game. Building crit instead of ATK is just a DPS loss and not worth it until you have a full set of 5* artifacts, but at that point it becomes good when built in the correct proportions. The guy with the spreadsheet guide has mathed it out with graphs and everything.

if you can hit 50% crit chance then prioritizing crit (by that i mean, you get crit damage on your goblet since thats the only place you can) is worth, otherwise not really.

Hellioning
Jun 27, 2008



The Klee banner's four stars are Noelle, Sucrose, and Xingqiu, so at least I can safely skip that.

gandlethorpe
Aug 16, 2008



ATK% is not as strong as it sounds anyway. It only counts your base ATK (character and weapon). At level 70, my main DPS capped at 601 base ATK. So +25% ATK, from say running two pyro, would add ~150 to my total. It's respectable, but not quite doing 25% more damage, unless I had no other ATK heh.

Nuebot
Feb 18, 2013

The developer of Brigador is a secret chud, don't give him money

so what I'm getting is that Keqing is useless if you don't spend money?

Mistikman
Jan 21, 2001

I was born ready. I'm Ron Fucking Swanson.

Hellioning posted:

The Klee banner's four stars are Noelle, Sucrose, and Xingqiu, so at least I can safely skip that.

Kind of a bummer, since I actually want Klee, but none of the other 3.

Archonex
May 2, 2012

MY OPINION IS SEERS OF THE THRONE PROPAGANDA IGNORE MY GNOSIS-IMPAIRED RAMBLINGS

gandlethorpe posted:

ATK% is not as strong as it sounds anyway. It only counts your base ATK (character and weapon). At level 70, my main DPS capped at 601 base ATK. So +25% ATK, from say running two pyro, would add ~150 to my total. It's respectable, but not quite doing 25% more damage, unless I had no other ATK heh.

It helps if you can get % attack boosts. Past a certain point a %5-15 attack boost seems like it'd be more useful than an artifact that gives 20-40 attack via hard attack numbers.

This assumes that attack % boosts scale off of total attack and not artifact attack. Though I suppose that after a certain point that would still work out to where a percentage boost is better.


I really hope the first patch adds in the ability to see what stats are on an item you want to use for enhancing. Because accidentally feeding a level 0 that has a fantastic stat set up into another artifact because it's impossible to differentiate between artifacts is bad game design.

Archonex fucked around with this message at 03:08 on Oct 18, 2020

dogsicle
Oct 23, 2012



Hellioning posted:

The Klee banner's four stars are Noelle, Sucrose, and Xingqiu, so at least I can safely skip that.

putting noelle on another banner so soon seems stupid to me, but i'll definitely roll on this some in hopes of sucrose constellations. only like 3 rolls from 4* pity assuming it carries over.

Nuebot posted:

so what I'm getting is that Keqing is useless if you don't spend money?

lmao no, she's a 5*. seriously just use one of the crafted swords on her, they aren't at all bad and most people are going to be limited to those anyway unless their gacha pity rolls turn out ridiculously well.

Asimo
Sep 23, 2007



Archonex posted:

I really hope the first patch adds in the ability to see what stats are on an item you want to use for enhancing. Because accidentally feeding a level 0 that has a fantastic stat set up into another artifact because it's impossible to differentiate between artifacts is bad game design.
A ghetto way to avoid this I guess is to use white/green artifacts to get anything you really want to keep to level 1 so you know not to feed them as fodder later. Kind of annoying to have to do any kind of kludges like that at all though.

The White Dragon
Nov 14, 2007

すご▞い!
君は働か░い
フ▙▓ズなんだね!


Nuebot posted:

so what I'm getting is that Keqing is useless if you don't spend money?

uh, what?

keqing is a fantastic character. if constellations make her even better, then holy poo poo. pair her with chongy and xiangling and melt giant hordes of enemies in seconds. if you set it up right, she can get like three or four elemental reactions per enemy in a single ult in addition to its base damage

The White Dragon fucked around with this message at 03:10 on Oct 18, 2020

Tae
Oct 24, 2010

Hello? Can you hear me? ...Perhaps if I shout? AAAAAAAAAH!


Nuebot posted:

so what I'm getting is that Keqing is useless if you don't spend money?

What? You're reaching weird conclusions.

Archonex posted:

I really hope the first patch adds in the ability to see what stats are on an item you want to use for enhancing. Because accidentally feeding a level 0 that has a fantastic stat set up into another artifact because it's impossible to differentiate between artifacts is bad game design.

You can lock artifacts in 1.1

Archonex
May 2, 2012

MY OPINION IS SEERS OF THE THRONE PROPAGANDA IGNORE MY GNOSIS-IMPAIRED RAMBLINGS

The White Dragon posted:

uh, what?

keqing is a fantastic character. if constellations make her even better, then holy poo poo. pair her with chongy and xiangling and melt giant hordes of enemies in seconds

Ironically, Venti seems like the only one with a lovely constellation setup so far. And even then apparently he just breaks the game over it's knee by ignoring defense entirely somehow if you can get him to constellation 6.


Asimo posted:

A ghetto way to avoid this I guess is to use white/green artifacts to get anything you really want to keep to level 1 so you know not to feed them as fodder later. Kind of annoying to have to do any kind of kludges like that at all though.

This works great if you go into AR 30 knowing that you can't see stats on items when enhancing.

Unfortunately, it's not really a fix at all given that enemies start regularly dropping blue artifacts over greens at that point. Meaning that you just add more confusion to the mess.


Tae posted:

You can lock artifacts in 1.1
Well there you go.

Where'd you get the patch notes? Eager to see what changes they've made and if the rumors of nerfs to some characters (and an improved gacha) are true.

Archonex fucked around with this message at 03:14 on Oct 18, 2020

Tarezax
Sep 12, 2009

MORT cancels dance: interrupted by MORT


After AR30 you should be looking at upgrading everything to purples anyways

Nuebot
Feb 18, 2013

The developer of Brigador is a secret chud, don't give him money

Tae posted:

What? You're reaching weird conclusions.

It was my assumption based on asking for f2p advice and being told to use gacha weapons or the battle pass weapon.

dogsicle posted:


lmao no, she's a 5*. seriously just use one of the crafted swords on her, they aren't at all bad and most people are going to be limited to those anyway unless their gacha pity rolls turn out ridiculously well.

That's the plan though, I got the iron sting or whatever and have most of the mats to upgrade it, I just need to hunt down a few more of those earth lizard guys. Hopefully that gives a much desired power boost.

TheFluff
Dec 13, 2006

FRIENDS, LISTEN TO ME
I AM A SEAGULL
OF WEALTH AND TASTE


Slippery Tilde

Nuebot posted:

It was my assumption based on asking for f2p advice and being told to use gacha weapons or the battle pass weapon.


That's the plan though, I got the iron sting or whatever and have most of the mats to upgrade it, I just need to hunt down a few more of those earth lizard guys. Hopefully that gives a much desired power boost.

If you don't use gacha weapons and no BP weapons either there's only the two craftable ones to choose from really and then you build Prototype Rancour if you want to go physical damage and Iron Sting if you want to go elemental damage, and the second one is sort of the natural choice because it's far easier to do it that way so there's not a whole lot of build anyone can recommend, is there? I think people sorta naturally reached for other alternatives because there's not much else to say beyond what dogsicle already mentioned at the top of this page.

dogsicle
Oct 23, 2012



yeah, i mainly brought up the BP weapon since it's a flat cost that guarantees you a good weapon vs how awful gacha'ing any other singular weapon could be. i think even putting it in the mix with the craftable weapons i'd rank Iron Sting first since it's just a nice straightforward pick, and you can refine it for greater effect.

John Lee
Mar 2, 2013

A time traveling adventure everyone can enjoy



Archonex posted:

Ironically, Venti seems like the only one with a lovely constellation setup so far. And even then apparently he just breaks the game over it's knee by ignoring defense entirely somehow if you can get him to constellation 6.


This works great if you go into AR 30 knowing that you can't see stats on items when enhancing.

Unfortunately, it's not really a fix at all given that enemies start regularly dropping blue artifacts over greens at that point. Meaning that you just add more confusion to the mess.

Well there you go.

Where'd you get the patch notes? Eager to see what changes they've made and if the rumors of nerfs to some characters (and an improved gacha) are true.

There's not patch notes yet, it's an interview. Interview also didn't mention anything about gacha changes, so it's likely those are faked - it's also more likely that instead of changing the systems are all, they'll just be more generous in the future. Their previous games ended up doing the semi-standard gacha thing where as time went on they started giving away more free stuff, generous events two to four times a year, tickets to get characters of your choice, etc.

Tabletops
Jan 27, 2014

anime

dogsicle posted:

yeah, i mainly brought up the BP weapon since it's a flat cost that guarantees you a good weapon vs how awful gacha'ing any other singular weapon could be. i think even putting it in the mix with the craftable weapons i'd rank Iron Sting first since it's just a nice straightforward pick, and you can refine it for greater effect.

my only question with the BP weapons is refining them.

like why do they have refining levels? I assume the next BP will have different weapons.

maybe after the BP they get added to the gacha loot pool or something?

AweStriker
Oct 6, 2014



Who's Xingqiu? What's he like?

dogsicle
Oct 23, 2012



Tabletops posted:

my only question with the BP weapons is refining them.

like why do they have refining levels? I assume the next BP will have different weapons.

maybe after the BP they get added to the gacha loot pool or something?

100% they hit the gacha at some point, main question is whether they have some way before then to get them refined via further passes or other events i guess? bonuses aside from the spear seem pretty good at base so i don't mind having r1, but with how hard refining even prototypes gets after r2 i can't imagine they'd make these BP ones much easier.

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gandlethorpe
Aug 16, 2008



AweStriker posted:

Who's Xingqiu? What's he like?

Legs. Fancy.

https://twitter.com/GenshinImpact/s...415291619713024

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