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they probably need to throw about two additional crunch years at this, spending anywhere between $40m to $80m just to get things in a better state. that's probably going to be developed in parallel to their multiplayer expansion, where the real cash cow is. I'm expecting that would probably add an additional year past that (so three years total from launch), with a cost of about a hundred million to develop overall I dunno honestly if they will risk that -- they could seriously start on the Witcher 4 instead and bring in half a billion in presales alone in 36 months, even after the Cyberpunk launch there's a lot of risk with delivering DLCs -- owners of the base game only buy single player DLCs around 20% of the time, unless its packaged in with a GOTY edition. they're hoping for a huge base for their multiplayer project...and I can kinda see it? I think 60%+ of their sales were on PC, and the PC gaming community (especially non US gamers) really love the game, so they might be able to hook in enough people to start making several hundred million a year (or more) I don't have their internal metrics obviously, but it's kinda an interesting dilemma from a business perspective. there's also another thing to consider: the pandemic most likely ending in mid/late 2022. while that would increase productivity on development, that also means people are probably going to be drinking and loving and going out anywhere (please dear god, let me fuckin OUT) so that might drive total VG sales down. just some interesting things to think about
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Mar 5, 2021 20:37
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Yeah I'm wondering a bit about how durable their commitment to this game will be. This long without a patch to fix some basic poo poo does not bode particularly well
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Mar 5, 2021 20:50
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I'm wondering if they'll do multiplayer at all at this point, and I'm also wondering if they ever had a clear idea of how to do multiplayer and how to monetize it. Gonna take a wild guess and say it's no for everything.
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Mar 5, 2021 20:57
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TheAgent posted:they probably need to throw about two additional crunch years at this No. No more crunch. It didn't help here, it won't help in the future.
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Mar 5, 2021 20:59
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terrorist ambulance posted:Yeah I'm wondering a bit about how durable their commitment to this game will be. This long without a patch to fix some basic poo poo does not bode particularly well might be a good business strat to to get things polished up and super functional for a "new" release on next gen consoles this holiday season. whoopsie daisy, here's the real game you were promised, etc. and see how many new sales that generates. could be pretty big, but again, there's a lot of factors to look at and consider wouldn't surprise me to see if those 2021 holiday sales determine where CP2077 ends up. if sales are decent or matched expectations, I can see them plowing ahead with their multiplayer idea since they have some new (and better) baseline metrics to show shareholders. if not, they'll probably release whatever extra storyline DLC they have as a mea culpa and switch full steam on W4 development. itry posted:No. No more crunch. It didn't help here, it won't help in the future. that also depends on if they are still scrambling to find replacements for their engine programmers, or if they managed to hire enough people in 2020 and adequately trained them. the more time those new people spend with REDengine the faster productivity will go. however they are all still pretty "new," even the guys hired in 2018/19 to offset the loss of some core programmers TheAgent fucked around with this message at 21:08 on Mar 5, 2021 |
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Mar 5, 2021 21:00
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My problem with that crunch talk is that it assumes (contrary to evidence) that such long periods of crunch will provide better output, on top of it ruining people's lives.
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Mar 5, 2021 21:07
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They have one more shot at this. The official next gen console release. That's the real second premiere if they market it right as some sort of huge improved goty edition with a bunch of free content DLC included. They'd need to fix the obvious issues with the game before it hits though. AI, police, driving, being able to edit V's looks, transmogrify inventory. I don't expect them to change anything with the story reactivity or unfucking the skill trees or all builds being completely game-breaking by the early mid-game. That poo poo is a herculean task.
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Mar 5, 2021 21:10
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itry posted:My problem with that crunch talk is that it assumes (contrary to evidence) that such long periods of crunch will provide better output, on top of it ruining people's lives. and I know the head of CDPR came out and said "no more crunching!" but he double swore and crossed his heart about that like three loving times already and you absolutely know people are going to be working 60+ hour weeks
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Mar 5, 2021 21:10
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Well he also said that they'll release CP2077 "when it's ready" and regardless of your feelings on the game, it definitely Was Not Ready.
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Mar 5, 2021 21:12
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TheAgent posted:and I know the head of CDPR came out and said "no more crunching!" but he double swore and crossed his heart about that like three loving times already and you absolutely know people are going to be working 60+ hour weeks Yeah, I know they probably are/will. Never believe CEO's.
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Mar 5, 2021 21:12
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exquisite tea posted:Well he also said that they'll release CP2077 "when it's ready" and regardless of your feelings on the game, it definitely Was Not Ready.
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Mar 5, 2021 21:15
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Srsly dunno how a multiplayer for this might work / look.
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Mar 5, 2021 21:16
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aphid_licker posted:Srsly dunno how a multiplayer for this might work / look. Probably something resembling GTA Online. The gigs are pretty disposable and work as a blueprint for randomized online missions.
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Mar 5, 2021 21:17
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Yeah, it's obvious they were going for the GTA online money and already implemented a lot of GTA game mechanics, too bad they half-assed or rather zero-assed like all of them and they look like last minute additions. GTA 5 sold 140 million units with 2020 being its highest sales year since release. The game is 7 years old. CDPR CEOs really thought they're next lol.
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Mar 5, 2021 21:22
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TheAgent posted:but they are very, very proud of it on PC! its just those dumb pesky console plebs holding everything back. please do not look at the "undetected while underwater" perk or any of the dozens of other broken things. those are the fault of disgruntled former employees. now I must go back to jerking off over 4k screenshots because any video I post of the game looks like complete poo poo I don't know if "happy with the game on PC" was just expectations setting but to me it's highly unlikely that any of the major story and game system problems will ever be addressed in a meaningful way. Maybe they'll add some DLC missions that feel super reactive and cool, but then it will just be That One Mission that's 100x better than anything else in the main game until you're unceremoniously dumped back into hearing Grimes not act.
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Mar 5, 2021 21:23
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Palpek posted:Yeah, it's obvious they were going for the GTA online money and already implemented a lot of GTA game mechanics, too bad they half-assed or rather zero-assed like all of them and they look like last minute additions. absolute fuckin unit of a game
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Mar 5, 2021 21:30
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Palpek posted:Yeah, it's obvious they were going for the GTA online money and already implemented a lot of GTA game mechanics, too bad they half-assed or rather zero-assed like all of them and they look like last minute additions. If they hadn't mismanaged the poo poo out of it from the get-go, they probably could have had a GTA-killer on their hands. A lot of people were ready for a fresh new take on the GTA Online style of game, and a lot of people clearly dig the cyberpunk aesthetic. But then the game was mismanaged and not actually given enough time for development, and those two things (along with a million other screwups) resulted in things like the character creator having genitals that you can't even see, unless the game glitches and you end up hanging dong while T-posing on a motorcycle after your trousers mysteriously vanish.
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Mar 5, 2021 21:34
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It's still pretty amazing to me that something like a GTA roleplay mod took off so hard and became a thing. It's an interesting direction different than the usual big spin-off mods.
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Mar 5, 2021 21:35
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It seems like the GTA angle for CP2077 came rather late into development, if it even was a focus at all. You look at all the early promotional materials for the game, and CDPR was hewing quite closely to a Deus Ex / Fallout RPG experience. Just feels like there were a whole bunch of shifting priorities over the course of this game's development.
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Mar 5, 2021 21:38
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exquisite tea posted:It seems like the GTA angle for CP2077 came rather late into development, if it even was a focus at all. You look at all the early promotional materials for the game, and CDPR was hewing quite closely to a Deus Ex / Fallout RPG experience. Just feels like there were a whole bunch of shifting priorities over the course of this game's development.
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Mar 5, 2021 21:39
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This guy is protected. Palpek posted:They have one more shot at this. The official next gen console release. That's the real second premiere if they market it right as some sort of huge improved goty edition with a bunch of free content DLC included. They'd need to fix the obvious issues with the game before it hits though. AI, police, driving, being able to edit V's looks, transmogrify inventory. I don't expect them to change anything with the story reactivity or unfucking the skill trees or all builds being completely game-breaking by the early mid-game. That poo poo is a herculean task. It's possible that they could do this, but between the hack and COVID, I doubt they could launch such a thing by year's end... How long was the turnaround on the big fix for Witcher 2 that completely reworked the voice acting and added a bunch of cinematics and a third act? I think it was 6-9 months after release, so something similar would probably be 12-15 months under current conditions. 
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Mar 5, 2021 21:40
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Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:This guy is protected.
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Mar 5, 2021 21:53
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There are definitely some games where the community tolerates a certain level of jank and repetitiveness like Warframe, but CDPR has fallen far off from where Digital Extremes is still at and doing decently. Heck, Warframe is run on its own custom engine as well just like how CDPR has their own, but if the lead devs had left Warframe a few years ago it'd be completely sunk. If CDPR had approached retention and keeping churn low similar to how Digital Extremes does, we may have had a much better Cyberpunk even if it was a bit janky similar to how Witcher 3 is. I really think that CDPR needs to tighten up the gameplay loop and figure out how to balance gameplay for once for Cyberpunk to be able to get wider, deeper engagement to warrant a strong multiplayer title unless their objective is to have primarily fashion players, in which case they shouldn't bother with combat and should announce Cyberpunk Crossing. Freakin' Gwent is having problems even despite all the free stuff CDPR threw at the earlier players to try to keep them going while getting money off of newer players primarily that don't have hundreds or thousands of hours invested and resources that would take a year to up to grinding hard. Maybe that's all a learning experience of sorts for CDPR they won't repeat for Cyberpunk. Palpek posted:They'd need to fix the obvious issues with the game before it hits though. AI, police, driving, being able to edit V's looks, transmogrify inventory. The big danger to me is that in 2 years we'll have a lot more big games out with improved engines and stories to boot on stuff like Unreal Engine 5, so everyone else with better gameplay balance and mechanics will have caught up to Cyberpunk's position held now while CDPR will be stuck where they should have delivered in 2021 on its own engine, for better or worse. I really don't envy their position at all
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Mar 5, 2021 21:53
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exquisite tea posted:I don't know if "happy with the game on PC" was just expectations setting but to me it's highly unlikely that any of the major story and game system problems will ever be addressed in a meaningful way. Maybe they'll add some DLC missions that feel super reactive and cool, but then it will just be That One Mission that's 100x better than anything else in the main game until you're unceremoniously dumped back into hearing Grimes not act. This is my expectation as well. The Witcher 3 added dlc with new ideas and systems that feed back into the main game but are also oddly apart from it (you need to have a stupid amount of money to start enchanting for example, and mutation stuff requires story progression in a high level dlc area.) That's the level of new content we'll see, they aren't going to take another pass at the existing quests. We might see perks get fixed and we might see a difficulty pass, but I'm not holding my breath.
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Mar 5, 2021 21:55
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Sydney Bottocks posted:If they hadn't mismanaged the poo poo out of it from the get-go, they probably could have had a GTA-killer on their hands. A lot of people were ready for a fresh new take on the GTA Online style of game, and a lot of people clearly dig the cyberpunk aesthetic. But then the game was mismanaged and not actually given enough time for development, and those two things (along with a million other screwups) resulted in things like the character creator having genitals that you can't even see, unless the game glitches and you end up hanging dong while T-posing on a motorcycle after your trousers mysteriously vanish. I feel like having dong physics only in the menus is such as waste of effort. Like, let me beat someone unconscious with my schlong - don't half measure when you can full measure it.
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Mar 5, 2021 21:57
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just another threat from cancel culture first they took away the vast array of dildos everywhere, then it was my cyberdick, next thing you know they'll give panam a flat rear end where does it end??
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Mar 5, 2021 21:59
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TheAgent posted:the main game director left in 2018 along with a some other senior people, so yeah. definitely a huge internal tonal shift there People keep talking about this huge shift in game design but if that's true why is the game so similar to The Witcher 3?
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Mar 5, 2021 22:02
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Roshnak posted:People keep talking about this huge shift in game design but if that's true why is the game so similar to The Witcher 3? supposedly part of that was an internal spat about the release date, which management wanted by holiday 2019 and everyone went HAHAHAHAH WHAT
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Mar 5, 2021 22:07
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TheAgent posted:its more of a huge shift in internal resources and game direction around 2018, with several key players who worked on W2 and W3 up and left Open and honest communication, just as long as we get the answer we want.
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Mar 5, 2021 22:14
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They needed like another 2-3 years to get the game working. Clearly the game wasn't ready.
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Mar 5, 2021 22:35
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itry posted:My problem with that crunch talk is that it assumes (contrary to evidence) that such long periods of crunch will provide better output, on top of it ruining people's lives. Oh my yes. It's pissing in the wind to point this out with the way it's baked into the game industry, but I feel obligated to point it out every time I see it come up in a thread I'm in. Crunch is literally counter-productive. You will get less actual work done with insane crunch than a sensible working week. You can crunch moderately for a couple of weeks and get a little extra done. But past that in length or duration forget about it. Productivity falls through the floor and error rates soar. Henry Ford and his time/motion guys figured this poo poo out a 100 years ago people. And every study since confirms this. TLDR: It turns out people aren't Robots, but if you try and treat them like they are, what you will actually get is Zombies. Who *Spoiler Alert*, aren't very good at coding.
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Mar 5, 2021 22:51
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Deptfordx posted:Oh my yes. It's pissing in the wind to point this out with the way it's baked into the game industry, but I feel obligated to point it out every time I see it come up in a thread I'm in. Not just coding, like any kind of work that requires more than just repeating the same steps over and over. Crassly and a bit oversimplified: We are well on our way to automate most of the poo poo that you'd actually get any use for crunch out of. edit: I'm pretty sure the sentence above makes sense, pm me when I've sobered up otherwise (don't).
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Mar 5, 2021 23:14
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TheAgent posted:its more of a huge shift in internal resources and game direction around 2018, with several key players who worked on W2 and W3 up and left Sure, but what I'm saying is that I don't think the game was originally going to be more like Deus Ex or Fallout before some suit made the decision to chase GTA. Cyberpunk feels, to me, like what would happen if you tried to make The Witcher 3 in a futuristic city. And if the original direction was a third person game where you could choose one of three personalities to be in your head, I don't know if I like that more than what we got.
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Mar 5, 2021 23:53
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aphid_licker posted:Srsly dunno how a multiplayer for this might work / look. Cyberpunk 76
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Mar 6, 2021 00:08
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Roshnak posted:Sure, but what I'm saying is that I don't think the game was originally going to be more like Deus Ex or Fallout before some suit made the decision to chase GTA. Cyberpunk feels, to me, like what would happen if you tried to make The Witcher 3 in a futuristic city. and yeah, the three options did get cut, but we can't really argue if the game would've better or worse with it. I'm a fan of more roleplaying options and choice for the player, but seeing how they dealt with other issues and how time ran out for them with a pretty straightforward story, I think having more options would've stretched the game out to 2023/4 I'm really hoping for an enhanced edition, but as I talked about in my previous blabbing, it's going to take a lot of work, time and money. we'll just have to wait and see what 1.2 brings to get a better sense of where the trajectory of CP2077 is heading
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Mar 6, 2021 00:48
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The Panam quest line has been a lot of fun. Plenty of good fun shooting involved. That level scaling mod is still the best thing I've added to my game - it's made several of those fights fun where they would've been snooze fests at lvl 46. Still seeing lots of bugs though. Thought the Takemura questline was forever bugged from what I was seeing in my game and on the internet but 3rd tried broke through and have been able to move on. Can't imagine how frustrating these gently caress up your run quest bugs would've been in the first month, I at least have the luxury of 3 months of accumulated cargo culted knowledge to draw upon. Also amazing these play through destroying quest bugs exist 3 whole months after the game came out. Reddit threads adjacent to my Takemura/Wakako bugs have people restarting 20 and 50 hour playthroughs. This has been one of the slower bug fixing experiences I've had, not the we're on it experience they seemed to say would happen. Meanwhile, on the Nexus:  As good an epitaph for the game if they don't deliver on fixes as any. Games > Cyberpunk 2077 - The chronological passing of time doesn't ensure anything E: That's from the Almost Autoloot mod, which seems promising.
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Mar 6, 2021 04:08
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Earwicker posted:am i supposed to know who "laurie anderson" is and why her coroner's report is currently displayed on every third computer in the city? or is that revealed by the story at some point? It's always 4:20 thirty degrees longitude east of night city. 
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Mar 6, 2021 04:36
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Darth Walrus posted:As Takemura mentions, Hanako (the only one who promised you anything) had already forgotten you, and he and the station's medical staff had to give her a poke to get you onto the SYS program. Arasaka doesn't give the slightest of shits about you... That's actually another plot hole in the game. Guess who calls you in the credits, if you pick the Return to Earth ending....
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Mar 6, 2021 05:14
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Hammerstein posted:That's actually another plot hole in the game. Guess who calls you in the credits, if you pick the Return to Earth ending.... It's not really a plot hole though? She's written V off as useless, then gets informed by Takemura or someone she listens to that a highly capable asset is now available and will, even better, be dead in six months. Suddenly you're useful again so she calls you up.
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Mar 6, 2021 05:28
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Holy poo poo, the Oda fight was not something I was prepared for on Very Hard with the leveling mod active. Took 4-5 tries, but Psalm 11:6 and Sandevistan pulled through. He avoided some of the stronger parts of this build pretty well. Cold Blood is useless in that fight, no way to build up stacks. So the far-from-maxed armor and resists didn't get the usual boosts - could take one hit at max health and just barely survive to run away and heal. Couldn't use Smart weapons on him - I guess he's got Tyger Claws tech - so none of the fancy poison weapons and Stealth poison perks could be used since those are all on Smart weapons for me. Tried headshotting him with Pistol, but his Sandevistan lunges made that tough to aim though I got him down to a 3rd of his health on one try with it. Sandevistan with a 7.5s cooldown nullified much of his mobility. Didn't expect a tight fight in this game, that was cool all around. Shows what the combat in this game could be if it was tightened up. Glad I wasn't spoiled on the intro to that fight either, that was cool. v1ld fucked around with this message at 07:29 on Mar 6, 2021 |
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Mar 6, 2021 07:18
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