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Surveying uses a hierarchy of evidence which can vary from country to country. Even in places where a monument trumps documentation it's still undisturbed monuments. Natural boundaries might move naturally as well depending on the jurisdiction (e.g both are the case where I am, in NZ) How you decide which principles to use between countries gets a lot more complex
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May 6, 2021 01:31
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are there not timmy's in New York? we have them in Michigan
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May 6, 2021 02:14
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:are there not timmy's in New York? we have them in Michigan I've definitely been to one outside Buffalo
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May 6, 2021 02:42
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PittTheElder posted:While that's true, the actual drifts of the continents relative to WGS84 are extremely well understood and it's mathematically straightforward (the biggest problem normally is figuring out what datum various input positions were in to begin with) to convert from the global datum to a local plate fixed one. For real time applications that's normally resolved by using differential corrections from a base station nearby, but it can also be done without a local base. That one GIP story where we almost invaded Syria in ~2005 would tend toward GPS inaccuracy being entirely milhist.
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May 6, 2021 02:51
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Much of the border between Finland and Sweden is defined by the deepest course (thalweg) of the Tornio river. It is surveyed every 25 years and the border will move.quote:The border is agreed to be regularly inspected every 25 years. During the independence of Finland, inspections have been made in 1926–1927, 1956–1957, 1981 and 2006. These inspections include inspecting the course of the border, repairing the border signs if needed, and defining the location of the deepest parts of the river through aerial and terrestrial photography. Especially in the wide, sandbanked areas of the rivers, the deepest parts shift in location. If the deepest part has shifted, the border may be shifted accordingly. For example, in the 2006 inspection, the border was shifted in many places, usually by 10 to 20 metres, but in some places up to 100 metres. A similar total area was moved from one country to another in both directions.
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May 6, 2021 03:09
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Some quarter century or other they're gonna find that the river was inconsiderate enough to randomly shift its entire bed 200m to the disadvantage of one of the countries and that's gonna be the beginning of a millennium of both sides trying to (re)gain THEIR LAND by sneakily loving with the flow.
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May 6, 2021 03:23
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Here's an NPR story about the US-Mexico border, and the difficulties that can come when you designate the border between Texas and Mexico the Rio Grande (including a land dispute between the US and Mexico over the border that lasted for a century): https://www.npr.org/2014/09/25/350885341/50-years-ago-a-fluid-border-made-the-u-s-1-square-mile-smaller
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May 6, 2021 05:15
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Nenonen posted:Borders in the wilderness were defined very roughly, and presumably considered less important than the line across the Karelian Isthmus. Counterpoint: Borders in the wilderness are maybe okay, but gently caress navigating the Karelian Isthmus in the 1600s.
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May 6, 2021 06:26
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Hey, here's a silly pop culture history question. There's a scene in the original Call of Duty during the battle of Stalingrad where the player is disembarked from a transport craft, handed an ammo clip, and told to follow someone else handed a rifle and to scrounge for weapons from dead guys to fight. Company of Heroes 2 also has a similar scene. Did this ever actually happen at Stalingrad or elsewhere as far as we can determine, or was that artistic license based on Soviet stereotypes?
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May 6, 2021 10:16
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Tomn posted:Hey, here's a silly pop culture history question. Blame the garbage movie Enemy At The Gates http://battlefield.ru/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=206&Itemid=108&lang=en
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May 6, 2021 10:31
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Tomn posted:Hey, here's a silly pop culture history question. I'm not aware of any reliable sources that this happened. It seems plausible that in some desperate situations due to supply shortages soldiers might not have sufficient rifles, but in that case it's more likely for people to fight with improvised weaponry and entrenching tools etc
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May 6, 2021 12:09
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Call of Duty and Call of Duty 2 were significantly about putting ripping off war film scenes and putting them into games. The bit of the story that's true is that crossings were made under air attack and there was a point where the germans were close enough to the river to be putting the landing areas under fire.
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May 6, 2021 12:36
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Well if Soviets made something, it was rifles.
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May 6, 2021 12:51
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Some of the early war Narodnoe Opolcheniye formations were really underequipped, but that mostly meant a smattering of older and poor condition M1891s, obsolete or personal sidearms for officers, improvised explosives instead of grenads, and no heavy weapons. These formations also were only raised outside Moscow and Leningrad early war and were either disbanded or converted to regular rifle formations once the situation stabilized a bit.
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May 6, 2021 12:55
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I’m trying to remember if that was even anywhere in the original book, where the sniper stuff is all of like two pages as part of the overall battle. I just quickly glanced through some pages from the index before I went to work and couldn’t find anything.
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May 6, 2021 13:05
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Was looking up August Storm and I was curious about two things: 1. Did the Kremlin bother ginning up any new casus belli to feed the population like 'revenge for Khalkin' or stage a false flag like the Shelling of Mainla or was it just "We're at war because we said we would and also gently caress them. " 2. Did the leadership have any concerns about the popular reaction to jumping right back into another war or do any assessments along those lines? Also, gently caress they moved fast. What, did they grab the Nazi's amphetamine stockpile? You can barely drive through Manchuria that quickly today. Arbite fucked around with this message at 14:09 on May 6, 2021 |
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May 6, 2021 14:07
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1945 RKKA OP pls nerf
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May 6, 2021 14:51
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:a smattering of older and poor condition M1891s, obsolete or personal sidearms for officers, improvised explosives The Ampulomet (Russian: 125-мм ампуломёт образца 1941 года, also rendered Ampulomyot, ampulla mortar, etc., lit. "ampule/vial thrower" cf. миномёт) was an expedient anti-tank weapon which launched a 125 mm incendiary projectile made of spherical glass.This weapon was introduced in 1941 and used (to a limited degree) by the Red Army in World War II, but by 1942 was largely obsolete. The ampules were filled with an incendiary mixture known as KS. KS was a mixture of 80% phosphorus and 20% sulfur which ignited when exposed to air. The burning mixture created a bright flame, thick white smoke and would burn for up to three minutes at temperatures between 800–1,000 °C 
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May 6, 2021 16:16
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That would be quite a thing to see
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May 6, 2021 16:39
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My entire memory is that thing was seeing it in Combat Mission Barbarossa to Berlin like 20~ years ago and it was a piece of poo poo that never did anything, so yay grog game historical accuracy?
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May 6, 2021 16:48
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Abongination posted:The Ampulomet (Russian: 125-мм ампуломёт образца 1941 года, also rendered Ampulomyot, ampulla mortar, etc., lit. "ampule/vial thrower" cf. миномёт) was an expedient anti-tank weapon which launched a 125 mm incendiary projectile made of spherical glass.This weapon was introduced in 1941 and used (to a limited degree) by the Red Army in World War II, but by 1942 was largely obsolete. That's very cool! What technical innovations caused it to fall off?
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May 6, 2021 17:08
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Tulip posted:That's very cool! What technical innovations caused it to fall off? It was a cheap to manufacture* stop gap weapon because USSR didn't have anti-tank rifles at the beginning of the war, but once the production of PTRD ramped up it was quickly ditched. While in theory a sound weapon, it had a relatively short effective range as hitting a tank sized target with a mortar like weapon is difficult, and tanks weren't all that vulnerable to Molotov cocktails as popular culture makes you believe. *the weapon itself was cheap to produce. The ampules, glass spheres, were more difficult to make as you might imagine (if you had a bit of quality control issues it might explode in the gun barrel), and early on there was a shortage of them.
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May 6, 2021 17:20
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Cyrano4747 posted:Which is all to say that borders are inherently arbitrary and exist only as a mutually agreed upon delineation of where one sovereign's (or government's in a post french revolution era) regulations end and another's' begin. The only reason upstate New York is New York and not Ontario or Quebec is because of a few centuries of history and culture that culminate in Tim Hortons only being in one place and not another. Tim Hortons exists in Michigan, I expect it's in upstate New York too 
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May 6, 2021 18:26
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Abongination posted:The Ampulomet (Russian: 125-мм ампуломёт образца 1941 года, also rendered Ampulomyot, ampulla mortar, etc., lit. "ampule/vial thrower" cf. миномёт) was an expedient anti-tank weapon which launched a 125 mm incendiary projectile made of spherical glass.This weapon was introduced in 1941 and used (to a limited degree) by the Red Army in World War II, but by 1942 was largely obsolete. Hang on those are VERY MUCH not Red Army helmets.
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May 6, 2021 18:28
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There's a handful of Tim Horton's in NYC run by a former Dunkin Donuts franchisee who got into some dispute with DD corporate.
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May 6, 2021 18:29
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feedmegin posted:Hang on those are VERY MUCH not Red Army helmets. It's actually Finnish grunts, but that doesn't explain why two of them wear German helmets. Maybe it's from Lapland where AOK Lappland was fighting alongside Finns and some dudes decided to stage a funny scene for a front reporter.
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May 6, 2021 18:32
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Nenonen posted:It was a cheap to manufacture* stop gap weapon because USSR didn't have anti-tank rifles at the beginning of the war, but once the production of PTRD ramped up it was quickly ditched. While in theory a sound weapon, it had a relatively short effective range as hitting a tank sized target with a mortar like weapon is difficult, and tanks weren't all that vulnerable to Molotov cocktails as popular culture makes you believe. Ah OK, it was superseded by a better weapon, I thought for a second you meant countermeasures had been developed and was wondering what those would look like. Having made a few ampules here and there...yeah I get why you'd want to avoid making them, especially with incendiaries.
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May 6, 2021 18:35
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the better weapons already existed they just couldn't be produced and brought in to service fast enough and required precision tooling. a tube that yeets christmas ornaments can be built in a shed.
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May 6, 2021 18:47
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So here's a fun topic: the Cambodian genocide My question is what did Kissinger/Nixon know? I have this memory that the CIA warned them that Operation Menu would likely cause the government to collapse, and the most likely people waiting in the wings were these Khmer Rouge dudes, who were bad, crazy hombres
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May 6, 2021 19:47
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Nebakenezzer posted:So here's a fun topic: the Cambodian genocide They saw the Khmer Rouge as a useful ally against Vietnam. As such, they didn't care. In November 1975, seven months after the start of the genocide, Kissinger said: "You should also tell the Cambodians that we will be friends with them. They are murderous thugs, but we won’t let that stand in our way. We are prepared to improve relations with them.” Source
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May 6, 2021 20:36
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To this day i’m still flabbergasted that Kissinger is still alive, not in jail, and revered as a statesman by some people.
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May 6, 2021 21:26
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When Kissinger won the Nobel peace prize, satire died. (Tom Lehrer)
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May 6, 2021 21:44
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https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/n66oiq/im_dr_robert_thompson_here_to_discuss_my_new_book/ Reddit AMA about the (largely unsuccessful) American/South Vietnamese pacification campaigns in Phú Yên, which is part of the south-central coast of Vietnam.
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May 6, 2021 22:10
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TK-42-1 posted:To this day i’m still flabbergasted that Kissinger is still alive, not in jail, and revered as a statesman by some people.
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May 6, 2021 22:14
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Nebakenezzer posted:So here's a fun topic: the Cambodian genocide According to Chamberlin's The Cold War's Killing Fields, Nixon and Kissinger might not have known about the Cambodian genocide until it was all over. While the CIA had agents in place, one of the first thing the Khmer Rogue did was evacuate Phnom Penh. Chamberlin quotes an anonymous CIA official in Saigon as saying that the evacuation had "left American espionage networks throughout the country broken and useless." One source, but Chamberlin is fairly critical of US Cold War policy. Kissinger/Nixon didn't give a flying gently caress about mass deaths. In 1971, when East Pakistan (now Bangladesh) went for independence after a disastrous typhoon, West Pakistan sent in troops are started killing people, starting with the university. US Consul-General Archer Blood cabled Washington "Here in Dacca we are mute and horrified witnesses to a reign of terror by the Pakistani military," and got back nothing, because Nixon liked the Pakistani's governments staunch anti-communism, and thought they should have a free reign to maintain order. There was a diplomatic furor with the Blood Telegram, which excoriated Nixon for doing nothing to stop the violence, and ultimately Bangladesh won independence, not that this did much for the dead. Returning to Cambodia, to my mind worse than failing to intervene (because it was done in secret and it's not like the American public would have accepted going back to Southeast Asia in 1975) is that after Vietnam invaded Cambodia, defeated the Khmer Rogue, and revealed the extent of the genocide for the world to see, the US and China refused to recognize the new Vietnamese backed government and maintained rump Khmer Rogue representatives in international organizations because how dare Vietnam defeat us in a war.
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May 6, 2021 22:23
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Cessna posted:They saw the Khmer Rouge as a useful ally against Vietnam. As such, they didn't care.  Biffmotron posted:Kissinger/Nixon didn't give a flying gently caress about mass deaths. Indeed, friend. Maybe let me be more specific: were Kissinger/Nixon specifically warned that going from tactical air raids on Viet Cong supply depots to B-52 carpet bombing to invasion might trigger a genocide? So, I get why in 1975 mr. realpolitik is "genocide, smenocide". I also get that the Vietnamese and Cambodians were rivals, but were they also not working together? Wasn't the PRC funding the Khmer Rouge? Honestly I'm finding this "two civil wars in nations right next to each other" kinda hard to understand
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May 6, 2021 23:25
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Nebakenezzer posted:were Kissinger/Nixon specifically warned that going from tactical air raids on Viet Cong supply depots to B-52 carpet bombing to invasion might trigger a genocide? I don't think the full scope of the horror of the genocide was predicted, but the idea that the country would be destabilized and collapse into a bloodbath? Yes, that was easily forseeable. Even Ford predicted that things would go very badly in March 1975, a month before Saigon fell: Source. Nebakenezzer posted:I also get that the Vietnamese and Cambodians were rivals, but were they also not working together? Yes, but as the US started to pull out of Vietnam the Cambodians began to think that the Vietnamese were going to try to take over all of former Indochina with themselves in charge, so they started fighting them in 1975. They fought back and forth until 1978, when Vietnam DID invade Cambodia and set up a pro-Vietnam government which lasted until 1989. The UN continued to recognize the Khmer Rouge as the legit government while that was going on. Nebakenezzer posted:Wasn't the PRC funding the Khmer Rouge? Yes, and they invaded Vietnam after Vietnam invaded Cambodia.
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May 7, 2021 00:28
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[IK note: No modern politics in the Milhist thread, for gently caress's sake] (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) Somebody fucked around with this message at 02:55 on May 8, 2021 |
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May 7, 2021 00:40
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Some of the early war Narodnoe Opolcheniye formations were really underequipped, but that mostly meant a smattering of older and poor condition M1891s, obsolete or personal sidearms for officers, improvised explosives instead of grenads, and no heavy weapons. These formations also were only raised outside Moscow and Leningrad early war and were either disbanded or converted to regular rifle formations once the situation stabilized a bit. The People's Militia divisions were equipped with a patchwork of old and captured rifles. Pretty much everything that made its way into Russia between 1914 and 1941 gravitated towards armouries in Moscow. You had a huge variety of small arms and machine guns in enormous numbers. In the end the rifles were all Mosins, but you still see the odd photo of DNO troops with a Lewis gun. http://www.tankarchives.ca/2017/08/armoury-of-moscow-peoples-militia.html They even had organic armour support: http://www.tankarchives.ca/2015/10/militia-armour.html I don't have such documents for the Leningrad DNO, but Isayev seems to have a high opinion of them: http://www.tankarchives.ca/2019/12/leningrad-peoples-militia.html
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May 7, 2021 02:13
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feedmegin posted:Hang on those are VERY MUCH not Red Army helmets. Sorry, almost headed this off at the pass last night but it was very late when I posted. The picture is of Finnish troops testing the weapon, the Finns used a scattering of gear including the Stanhelm. The KS inside the glass orbs ignited on contact with the air so you can see why this weapon would be worrisome to manufacture, store and use in combat. As mentioned above it also had bad range and was a weird little stop gap anti tank weapon.
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May 7, 2021 02:17
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