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Nessus posted:I think the only fully motorized army was the USA. They had some horses but not, like, for hauling supplies as a primary mover. The UK as well. If anything, they hopped on the "all motorized/no horses" bandwagon a bit earlier than the USA.
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Dec 10, 2020 23:52
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This is a pretty old book but I still see it on recommended reading lists from time to time: https://mcoepublic.blob.core.usgovcloudapi.net/library/ebooks/Soldier%27s%20Load_dated%201980.pdf. It's SLA Marshall, so take that as you will, but its on the weight load carried by soldiers. Also not an infantryman but my perspective from time as a FO; carrying as much as possible. Minimize luxuries, like Cessna said, so you can carry more radios, batteries, and ammo (which includes for weapon systems you aren't even using, to help out the machine gunners and mortar men). Two mindsets: we have a long way to go so we have to carry a lot since we're far from resupply / we don't have a long way to go so we can carry more.
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Dec 10, 2020 23:57
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How effective are border walls generally? Like I know mostly what the deal is with walls around towns and cities or forts, but I was thinking about the Great Wall of China, and how it developed out of the fact that previously disunited chinese states had walls between eachother, and I don't think I've ever heard of something like that in European history.
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Dec 11, 2020 00:07
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razak posted:Gasmask container.
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Dec 11, 2020 00:20
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zoux posted:How does WWII reenacting work? I can gather how musket-era military reenactments go, bunch of dudes
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Dec 11, 2020 00:23
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Fish of hemp posted:Were those the bombs that look like this?
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Dec 11, 2020 00:26
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Cessna posted:A modern soldier is MUCH better equipped. Admittedly my personal experience is outdated, I got out in the 90s. And I was an armor guy, so I wasn't working under the constraints of an infantry soldier. (Weight wasn't a consideration, so we'd carry all kinds of crap, see below.) That was true when you got out, but the war in Iraq was basically 15 straight years of equipment getting loaded onto infantry to solve all their problems. Personal protection was a big one because the body armour you take for IEDs is the heaviest of all. But there's also little stuff like the acceptable amount of water to keep on you going up and up. We're now in the bit of the cycle where there serious arguments over how much of that gear can be permanently chucked and home much has enduring necessity.
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Dec 11, 2020 00:37
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In between having your gear issued and when you give it back, how much enforcement is there of the theoretical loadout? Will NCOs try to catch soldiers who've ditched or modified some of their equipment?
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Dec 11, 2020 00:41
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When did over engineering become a problem for the Germans? Was it the Nazi's fault, or did it happen earlier?
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Dec 11, 2020 01:27
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White Coke posted:When did over engineering become a problem for the Germans? Was it the Nazi's fault, or did it happen earlier?
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Dec 11, 2020 01:30
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SlothfulCobra posted:How effective are border walls generally? Like I know mostly what the deal is with walls around towns and cities or forts, but I was thinking about the Great Wall of China, and how it developed out of the fact that previously disunited chinese states had walls between eachother, and I don't think I've ever heard of something like that in European history. As far as I know, there's no "general" border walls. I can only speak to the Great Wall (and even then not a lot) but they're a really rare phenomena - there's like, Hadrian's Wall and the Atlantic Wall and maybe a few others over basically all of human history. To even start to talk about the Great Wall means having two things to clear up: first, unless you're narrowly talking about the specific building that exists today, you're probably talking about a series of different fortification paradigms (not always a particularly singular wall!) across 2000+ years that had several discontinuities. Second, China's north border situation and the politics implied. The first part you probably have heard before and it's not really that interesting, so in short - the modern Great Wall was built during the Ming dynasty, which started in 1368 but didn't really start the deliberate building of a linear defensive system right away, instead using what we'd probably consider more normal "series of forts and watchtowers with garrisons." Before then, going back to the Warring States era, there were occassional forays into building big-rear end rammed earth walls to forestall raiding. Speaking of raiding, China's northern border. Throughout its imperial period (So, 221BCE-1912CE) China typically had a stance of "we are the empire on earth with no equals," and this was generally a shaky claim. In addition to losing occassional wars to various kingdoms in Korea and Vietnam and Tibet, not to mention total state collapses, to the north of nearly every dynasty was at least one genuinely threatening political group. The Mongols are by far the most famous, but there was always threats from, going backwards in history: Russians, Jurchens, Uyghurs, Gokturks, Rouran, Xianbei, or Xiongnu. Jumping all the way back to the Han-Xiongnu conflicts, the core of the issue is that the Xiongnu just...really could get away with riding into the periphery of China and wiping out a few villages and going home. The best diplomatic solution was a bunch of back and forth marital alliances, but this was theologically and politically contradictory with claims the Chinese state was making and so could not persist to some minds. Chao Cuo wrote a whole memorandum on this in 169BCE, and the war plan was basically: forcibly settle the border regions with small walled cities. This of course fucks up the Xiongnu food supply by turning nice grazing land into wheat farms, which is really an act of war from a migratory perspective. It's a surprisingly detailed plan down to the size of walls (2 walls spaced 209 meters) and housing arrangements and who will man these cities (slaves) and how to keep people from just running off (sex slaves). A lot of this was motivated by the logistical difficulties of fighting on the steppe: according to calcuations in 14 CE, the Han army could not spend more than 100 days on campaign in Xiongnu lands. The Han do eventually win (about 100 years before the Han collapse), but it's insanely expensive, the Xianbei pretty much took up the same role almost immediately, and realistically the issue is border raiding. And that's ultimately what most versions of the Great Wall have been about - not about defending against a concerted effort, but about inconveniencing raiding parties to reduce how often they happen. The Ming Great Wall has some additional stuff going on though. The first thing to remember is that the Ming dynasty was a famously xenophobic era, up to and including stuff like "bricking their own docks" and "if you travel, your neighbors must all know your itinerary and you must keep a pass on you at all times." So that's the weirdest of the functions of the wall: keep Chinese people in China. The other part that's not as often thought about is as a form of labor management. Labor in the Ming dynasty had significant seasonal qualities to it, and there tended to be massive surpluses of labor during the summer, so pulling a bunch of people into a megaproject was a useful way of keeping them busy aka not plotting to overthrow the government. It also was used for early warnings (it's not unfair to describe it as a series of towers first, a road second, and a wall third). And of course it was intended for stopping actual outside military threats - the Ming has the rare distinction of being a dynasty that went south-north in its campaign, and that was because it was an anti-Yuan (Mongol) revolt, and so the rump Yuan/Mongol state to the north was percieved as a real threat to legitimacy. And I guess that's where we get to the question of "how effective was it?" On the one hand, the Ming dynasty did fall and were replaced by a Jurchen dynasty who crossed the Great Wall. On the other hand, the Ming didn't fall to Mongols, and the Great Wall was a huge problem for the Qing who only really broke through into central China after the Ming dynasty had completely fallen apart due to internal rebellion. So, y'know, I'd say not really a bad performance.
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Dec 11, 2020 01:56
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HEY GUNS posted:Earlier. You will never be as happy or as profoundly at peace as a german contemplating a Mechanism Someone, please post pictures of over engineered sharpened sticks.
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Dec 11, 2020 02:22
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Xiahou Dun posted:Cessna, this is important : do you own a pair of jodhpurs. Why are you dodging this question, Cessna. Do you own too many jodhpurs or too few.
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Dec 11, 2020 02:39
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White Coke posted:Someone, please post pictures of over engineered sharpened sticks.  German.
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Dec 11, 2020 02:45
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Chamale posted:
No wonder the Romans lost at Teutoburg.
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Dec 11, 2020 02:49
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Since we're talking about gear.
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Dec 11, 2020 04:02
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Xiahou Dun posted:Why are you dodging this question, Cessna. Too few!!
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Dec 11, 2020 06:00
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So this movie is happening in 3 years or so Now, if you wanted to take a historical air battle and put it in space...which one do you do? Midway's the most obvious one (though is just had a badly reviewed movie come out). Battle of Britain is a campaign. F4's trying to blow up some dams in not-Vietnam using a mostly new and untested weapons? Dambuster's already has a movie in development-hell (and has already been done once!), though Hollywood likes doing twins of movies. Top Gun's coming out shortly too. The raid on Taranto didn't have any enemy plane action so that would be out. The Flying Tiger's I don't think would work..more of a campaign again. Same with Malta, and Operational Pedestal is more interesting if you focus on the Ohio. I could see doing the Cactus airforce at Guadalcanal - shoestring collection of random planes vs the might of an Empire who is at the end of their logistical tether. Comedy Option - Pearl Harbour and the point of view is the rebel's bombing the evil Imperial Fleet at anchor. The sinking of Force Z would work too. Comstar fucked around with this message at 06:31 on Dec 11, 2020 |
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Dec 11, 2020 06:10
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Battle off Samar, no question for me. It's not quite an "air battle" but it could be recast that way by adding some TIE fighters.
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Dec 11, 2020 07:14
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wdarkk posted:Battle off Samar, no question for me. It's not quite an "air battle" but it could be recast that way by adding some TIE fighters. Planes played a big role in the battle. There were Wildcats making dry strafing runs on Japanese ships after running out of ammo, that's some poo poo that could be in a Star Wars movie.
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Dec 11, 2020 07:42
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Beardless posted:Planes played a big role in the battle. There were Wildcats making dry strafing runs on Japanese ships after running out of ammo, that's some poo poo that could be in a Star Wars movie. Yeah but there were zilch enemy planes.
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Dec 11, 2020 07:45
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wdarkk posted:Yeah but there were zilch enemy planes. Yeah that's true, you would need to throw in some TIEs in that case.
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Dec 11, 2020 07:47
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If you could somehow work in Xerxes watching his fleet get destroyed at Salamis that'd be pretty cool.
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Dec 11, 2020 08:00
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Something fitting Rogue Squadron might be the Flying Tiger's Defense of Rangoon. Or their actions over Thailand and Burma. Their support of the Chinese at the Salween River is perfect if you want to recreate that trench run feel since it's a in a mile deep gorge. It involves repeatedly attacking a pontoon bridge among other things.
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Dec 11, 2020 08:50
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Tulip posted:Labor in the Ming dynasty had significant seasonal qualities to it, and there tended to be massive surpluses of labor during the summer, so pulling a bunch of people into a megaproject was a useful way of keeping them busy aka not plotting to overthrow the government. How were people not plotting to overthrow the government while toiling on the wall?
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Dec 11, 2020 11:30
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Beardless posted:Planes played a big role in the battle. There were Wildcats making dry strafing runs on Japanese ships after running out of ammo, that's some poo poo that could be in a Star Wars movie. A guy I went to flight school with was awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross for doing something similar.' https://waronterrornews.typepad.com/home/2009/08/cw2-marcus-moore-distinguished-flying-cross.html Article posted:CW2 Marcus Moore Distinguished Flying Cross
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Dec 11, 2020 12:22
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Comstar posted:Dambuster's already has a movie in development-hell (and has already been done once!), though Hollywood likes doing twins of movies. The attack on the Death Star in A New Hope already did this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNdb03Hw18M
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Dec 11, 2020 13:37
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fartknocker posted:The attack on the Death Star in A New Hope already did this. Everytime I watch this i want to go buy a sheepskin flight jacket. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OZq-tlJTrU
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Dec 11, 2020 13:46
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HEY GUNS posted:there is an ernst juenger thing from ww1 where he had been putting sandwiches in his mask container and it worked great until the day he was actually gassed Were the sandwiches ruined? 
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Dec 11, 2020 14:03
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Platystemon posted:How were people not plotting to overthrow the government while toiling on the wall? too tired / it's part of your societal obligations corvee labor tends to not be a cause of revolt edit: also far more supervised by the government than if you are dickin around at home with the boys KYOON GRIFFEY JR fucked around with this message at 14:34 on Dec 11, 2020 |
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Dec 11, 2020 14:22
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Platystemon posted:How were people not plotting to overthrow the government while toiling on the wall? KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:too tired / it's part of your societal obligations This, and also they did eventually overthrow the government lol
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Dec 11, 2020 14:42
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I guess if you made a version of Pearl Harbor that was more sympathetic to the attackers than the defenders you could make it into a slapstick comedy.
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Dec 11, 2020 15:37
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Part III of How Finland became Finland delayed to tomorrow, I chipped a teeth.
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Dec 11, 2020 15:47
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SlothfulCobra posted:I guess if you made a version of Pearl Harbor that was more sympathetic to the attackers than the defenders you could make it into a slapstick comedy. Tora Tora Tora is already more sympathetic to the attackers than the defenders.
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Dec 11, 2020 16:49
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SlothfulCobra posted:I guess if you made a version of Pearl Harbor that was more sympathetic to the attackers than the defenders you could make it into a slapstick comedy. It's like I'm living in this crazy world where 1941 didn't win the Palme d'Or and Best Original Screenplay and have 63-week first-run stand? 
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Dec 11, 2020 16:52
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Still makes me laugh how horny that movie is.
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Dec 11, 2020 17:00
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Schadenboner posted:Were the sandwiches ruined? *slow camera pan across No Man's land past piles of mangled bodies to close up of muddy, trampled cheese sandwiches. Werner Herzog: Krieg ist die Hölle...
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Dec 11, 2020 18:56
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Elissimpark posted:*slow camera pan across No Man's land past piles of mangled bodies to close up of muddy, trampled cheese sandwiches. 
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Dec 11, 2020 19:06
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zoux posted:How does WWII reenacting work? I can gather how musket-era military reenactments go, bunch of dudes stand in lines and shoot black powder at one another, but how do you account for all the tanks and air support and MG emplacements and squad-sized maneuver and such I’m a bit late but in my experience you don’t actually point or shoot at each other in musket re-enactments. It’s a big no-no. You’re not going to kill anyone (unless you fired point blank into someone’s head like that actor in the 80s) but you’re still spewing blazing hot smoke and paper and sparks in a cone in front of you. I know of at least one little boy in Canada who was permanently blinded by being downrange of black powder blanks.
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Dec 11, 2020 19:46
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SlothfulCobra posted:How effective are border walls generally? Like I know mostly what the deal is with walls around towns and cities or forts, but I was thinking about the Great Wall of China, and how it developed out of the fact that previously disunited chinese states had walls between eachother, and I don't think I've ever heard of something like that in European history. They work poorly.
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Dec 11, 2020 20:02
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