Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

The Lone Badger posted:

I think the US replaced it at some point, then decided the replacement was poo poo and went back to the M2.

The M2 has been joined by other weapons serving in the same role (or in similar roles, Mk19, GAU-19, etc,) but has been in continual US service since the thirties. There have been a few attempts at replacing it, particularly in the tripod-mounted role, but none have gotten past initial trials.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

Cyrano4747 posted:

The H&K G11 was a dead-end, but it's an interesting look at an attempt to fundamentally change how rifles work.

It’s my understanding that the G11 was extremely close to production and issuance, and was only stopped by the financial requirements and change of priorities brought on by reunification. It’s a super-interesting what-if. Would W. Germany have stood alone with their space-magic rifle, or would it have influenced other NATO designs?

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

Edgar Allen Ho posted:

This happened to me somewhere around 2014 when I was visiting my grandparents. Tbh it was badass to just randomly see a B-17 flying around when I didn't expect it. It's like if you were driving on the highway and a running King Tiger plowed past you.

fake e: well, it's a King Tiger, so it's prolly pulled over suffering mechanical problems

My parents house is less than two miles from the departure end of the runway at FXE, and growing up warbirds were a pretty common thing, both touring history groups and the restoration shops at the field, and aircraft being imported and exported. Dad would frequently hear round engines, throw me in the car, and drive over to the airport to see if we could go see whatever just showed up.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

MRC48B posted:

Post wwi warbirds typically stopped using total loss lube systems, so an engine designed in the 30s or later won't be a total mess.

It’s right here. Many (not all) WWI engines were rotary radial, in which the back of the crankshaft is bolted to the airframe, and the entire engine spins around the crankshaft with the propeller solidly bolted to the front. This essentially requires a total-loss lubrication system, which used castor oil.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

Cessna posted:

Some high performance engines just - leak. They're designed to be sealed when the engine is running hot; heat leads to expansion which closes gaps - but when they're cool they drip.

See also: Literally anything with a Pratt & Whitney logo on it.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

heated shot is for fires not explosions, usually with the explosion being a secondary result of the fire you have set

heating shot on board a ship or boat in the appropriate era is difficult for all the obvious reasons. well, heating the shot is comparatively easy. not setting your own ship on fire is the hard part.

We tried to use heated shot, and ended up with fire ships.

:ohdear:

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

A very early muzzleloading artillery piece.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parrott_rifle

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

It's an early rifled muzzle loading artillery piece, I think you meant to say.

Fair point.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...


I had typed something out to this effect, but in walks Cyrano with something several orders of magnitude more eloquent than my own fumblings.

:tipshat:

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

bewbies posted:

You can argue that Lee was culturally or socially American or whatever, but if we're using "American" as synonymous for "United States" then depending on your views of the legality of secession before the war, he was either:

1) a former US Army colonel that illegally resisted the lawful actions of the US federal government, or

2) He was a general officer in a foreign military.

He was not ever a general officer in the United States Army/military, period.

This is one of the most pedantic arguments in a forum full of horrible pedants.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

TerraCat posted:

Not sure I'm buying the line that the newest American medium bomber can outrun most pursuit fighters.


This is a pretty common thing you see in pre-war sales material and propaganda on both sides. It might even be true when you look at overall fleets of pursuit planes. For every fast, modern fighter in service, there’s still a ton of near-obsolete biplane fighters.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

Randarkman posted:

To add to things, I do think I've seen too much has often been made of the "elite nature" of the Kwantung army in some of the arguments I've seen that the atomic bombings were irrelevant next to the Soviet declaration of war and invasion. As far as I'm aware the Kwantung army was never elite. It was unruly, troublesome and autonomous and supplemented with locally recruited forces, towards the end of the war it was intact and had largely not been involved in large-scale combat, but I've never seen anything to suggest it had equipment or personnel priority over the forces actually engaged in combat in China, South-East Asia and the Pacific.

The Kwantung army was at one point a veteran force, if not maybe “elite.” However, large parts of it were parceled out as reinforcements or as garrison units for the pacific theater. By mid 1945, it was no longer capable of providing more than token resistance against the Soviets. Though to be fair, the Red Army of mid-late 1945 may have been the most experienced, thoroughly trained, equipped, and led land army in the history of the world. It was an enormous overmatch.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

Oberndorf posted:

In a live fire situation, how reliable would SMS messages be? I can’t imagine the cell network would survive more than trivial shelling. What was the alternative means of distributing coordinates?

Plenty reliable. Ask the Ukrainians how well using their cell phones worked out for them though.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

Nenonen posted:

How about Apache Longbows against Napoleonic army?

Can the armor on an Apache stop a 9lb cannonball?

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

IIRC the Panther specifically suffered from an engineering freeze on the drivetrain happening before an overall project design freeze. The drivetrain was designed for a thirty ton tank using the same engine as the Tiger, but additional (hitler-mandated) equipment and armor meant that it ended up weighing an additional ~fifteen tons above design weight. Combined with decisions made in the final drive unit to simplify production (it legitimately was cheaper to build than late model Panzer IVs,) you have a recipe for a draftee to blow the final drive out of the tank when he beats on it while being shot at.

An interesting what-if would be how an as-designed (or at least closer to as-designed) Panther would fare in the same war situation. Lighter, faster, even cheaper to build, significantly more reliable, and with less of a logistical tail. Basically a German T-34.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

Panzeh posted:

The Pacific tried to be a little bit else, though it was also much more boring.

The writers, producers, director, cast, and production crew that made The Pacific were not the right people to try to sell the horror-and-hopelessness-of-war commentary that it was trying to be. It’s not awful, but it can’t help itself from continually looping back to :911:.

Joseph Mazzello as Eugene Sledge particularly fails to really seem to be impacted by his experience through the war. He just kinda seems to need to take a poo poo the whole time. (And I think he’s a decent to above-average actor, just that this performance is not good at all.) I’ve not read Helmet for my Pillow, so I can’t comment as much on the tone of the Guadalcanal and Cape Gloucester segments, but I don’t think anyone involved really got With the Old Breed. It’s like they read the words, and recreated scenes from Sledge’s memories, but completely missed the gist of what Sledge was trying to convey. (That modern war as an infantryman is a never ending pit of degradation and horror that tends to end rather abruptly and permanently.) Every time the story heads off in that direction, something happens to pull it right back to cheerleading the USMC.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

Cyrano4747 posted:

Note that the reverse also happens in smaller, peace time militaries without much room to move up. You can find some old as gently caress NCOs in the US Army and Marines in the interwar years, for example.

Eisenhower spent 12 years as a Major, 4 and a half as a Lieutenant Colonel, and then went from Colonel to General of the Army in 3 years, 9 and a half months.

The WWI/interwar/WWII Regular Army/Army of the United States rank system was weird.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

IIRC, DoD hasn’t minted Purple Hearts since 1945, because the huge stockpile they ordered during the war still hasn’t run out.

So ya, the planning wasn’t done, but it was moving along, and large portions of the military saw it as the next step towards victory over Japan. My grandfather, an assault glider pilot, was on a troop train to California when the war ended. He got his orders in July, well after the end of combat operations on Okinawa.

The invasion of Kyushu almost certainly would have happened without the nuclear strikes.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

Mazz posted:

Considering the effort required, I wonder how much that first grapefruit of Plutonium was actually worth. Like in both actual cost and sunk manpower/material for it at that point (specific to that plutonium not all of Manhattan)


Also imagine if that dude lost it somehow

As an example, during bomb development, they were testing the neutron absorption of different materials, and tested a ~10in hemisphere of gold, among many, many other materials.

At some point that 10” hemisphere of solid gold became a doorstop, because the value of the plutonium also stored in the room made the gold little more than a rounding error.

Richard Feynman posted:

The man standing next to me said, "What's that?"
I said, "That was the Bomb."
The man was William Laurence. He was there to write an article describing the
whole situation. I had been the one who was supposed to have taken him around. Then it was found that it was too technical for him, and so later H. D. Smyth came and I showed him around. One thing we did, we went into a room and there on the end of a narrow pedestal was a small silver­plated ball. You could put your hand on it. It was warm. It

was radioactive. It was plutonium. And we stood at the door of this room, talking about it. This was a new element that was made by man, that had never existed on the earth before, except for a very short period possibly at the very beginning. And here it was all isolated and radioactive and had these properties. And we had made it. And so it was tremendously valuable.
Meanwhile, you know how people do when they talk ­­ you kind of jiggle around and so forth. He was kicking the doorstop, you see, and I said, "Yes, the doorstop certainly is appropriate for this door." The doorstop was a ten­inch hemisphere of yellowish metal­gold, as a matter of fact.
What had happened was that we needed to do an experiment to see how many neutrons were reflected by different materials, in order to save the neutrons so we didn't use so much material. We had tested many different materials. We had tested platinum, we had tested zinc, we had tested brass, we had tested gold. So, in making the tests with the gold, we had these pieces of gold and somebody had the clever idea of using that great ball of gold for a doorstop for the door of the room that contained the plutonium.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

zoux posted:

I thought this was made up for For All Mankind (which is insanely dope btw)

No, Tom Lehrer is just amazing.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

Tulip posted:

So I mean, I understand the stereotypes of American intelligence as being somewhat of an oxymoron, but I'm really looking for some more firm quotes to distinguish between American analysts being fully ignorant of the internal ideological divisions of the Comintern, or if denial was the rule of the day, because that is a substantial difference in understanding the actual capabilities and motives of American foreign policy.

I want you to imagine Congress or the executive branch of today making those distinctions.

Yesterday was no different. Tomorrow will be more of the same.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

Mycroft Holmes posted:

If you enlisted as a private soldier in the British military in 1914, how high could you rise by 1918? What if you were lower class?

Pretty far.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temporary_gentlemen

Surviving the entire war as an infantryman might be a big ask, though.

EFB:

Taerkar posted:

Statistically? -6 feet.

:arghfist:

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

hypnophant posted:

You can see sinister motives in american foreign policy if you want but you’re ascribing too much planning and coordination to an organization that is very much flying by the seat of its pants. American foreign policy seems inconsistent and hypocritical because it’s made up on the fly by political appointees, not because there’s some grand, malevolent, secretive intent behind it

Being inside the clown car at literally any level gives you incredible insight into how ridiculous the various federal apparatus are.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

Ataxerxes posted:

I bought an used sausage hat and a friend modified the cables so that I can use it as a headset for my computer. The speakers in the headphones are rear end and make all music sound like it's made by robots, but the throat mike works suprisingly well.

*Slav intensifies*

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

sullat posted:

There's also Iron Coffins written by a German submariner who survived the whole war. Speaking of lucky breaks...

Word of caution, there is also a novel called Iron Coffins which is also about a German submarine… (…and the captain’s love affair with a Cajun woman or something.)

:banjo:

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

SeanBeansShako posted:

Haha yeah, good fun :smith:

Pretty good game, in the “oh god please make it stop this is supposed to be fun and its really harshing my buzz” kinda way.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

MazelTovCocktail posted:

Also very interested in anything on Beria.

You really sure about that, myman?

I mean really, really sure?

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

feedmegin posted:

They'd need shaped charge tank ammo first, that's why smoothbore guns at all unless you're British. Not that that's impossible for the time ofc.

As mentioned, the Germans already had HEAT ammunition for (at least) their 75×714mmR, 88x571mmR, and 88×822mmR guns; It just wasn’t as good as their other AP ammo at absolute armor penetration. You can (and most countries did,) use HEAT and HEATFS with rifled guns. Smoothbore tank guns are a direct result of the desire to focus on firing APDSFS with no compromises.

Shooting a finned dart from a rifled gun results in some wobble (and thus inaccuracy) unless you use a special sabot (I think the British do this) that allows the AT dart to (not)spin independently of the (spinning)sabot. You still get some spin, but nothing like what you’d get shooting a regular APDSFS round. The disadvantage to these special sabots is the loss of a bit of velocity, and the complexities in production of the ammo.

The Soviets also moved to smoothbore guns to allow them to more easily fire ATGMs down the gun tube. The US did this with the rifled 152mm M81 gun/launcher in the M60A2 and M551. To achieve this, in addition to the normal rifling required to fire “conventional” 152mm ammunition, a straight keyway was cut into the barrel which matched a key on the MGM-51 Shillelagh missile. Essentially, when firing missiles, the whole system just ignored the rifling altogether. Unfortunately, this lead to stress fractures in the gun tubes (along the keyway,) as well as all the other well-known issues with the M551 Sheridan. The entire M81 program was a bit of a clusterfuck, and it caused the US Army to step well clear of the entire idea in all future development. The Soviets designed and built a TON of gun-launched ATGMs though.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

FuturePastNow posted:

If you sent a working T56 back to Allison in 1939 would there be turboprop B-29s by '45?

Probably not. Gearbox development was a noted complete pain in the rear end. Look at the wiki page for basically any of the turboprop powered fighters or attack aircraft from the late forties through the fifties, and they almost always end with “project cancelled due to gearbox issues.”

Speaking more generally, turbine engines rely heavily on material science to work properly. If you sent 1939 Rolls Royce a 1950 Rolls Royce Avon, they would probably be able to replicate an engine of the same weight and power (maybe, probably, but not certainly,) but it would have a single-digit-hours service life. You just didn’t have the materials in 1939 to replicate the hot section, even if you lifted the internal aerodynamics wholesale.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

PeterCat posted:

So, how did the US blockade Cuba without a declaration of war?

The blockade of Cuba wasn’t one, legally. The US government got a two-thirds vote from members of the Organization of American States. Additionally, forces from numerous other countries participated in the totally-not-a-blockade, including Venezuela, Argentina, Colombia, and the Dominican Republic, so it wasn’t even unilateral.

It had just enough diplomatic cover to kinda make the fat gently caress fly. Also, we’re not touching you. See how we’re not touching you? This is totally legal.

There’s lots of reasons the whole affair is seen as such a dangerous example of brinksmanship.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

Cessna posted:

In 1962?

They didn't. They "quarantined" it.

Of course it was a blockade, but they didn't call it a blockade. This is one of those legal "words mean things" situations. The distinction seems terribly silly in retrospect, but was important at the time for the reason I said - calling what they did in "blockade" would have been de facto declaring war at a time when doing so would have been bad.

A blockade traditionally means that the blockading ships do not allow shipping to pass through to ports of the target country full stop, neutral or not. The US blockade of Cuba (while still hilariously illegal) was pretty laser-focused on Soviet war material, specifically nuclear weapons and delivery systems. The USN wasn’t turning around ships full of food, manufactured goods, or raw materials, which helped give the US position just the barest whiff of legitimacy. The USSR’s blockade of West Berlin fourteen years earlier helped the US position as well.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

Nessus posted:

I thought the focus on Georgia suffering under Sherman was because of Gone with the Wind making that famous; if Scarlett had lived in Charleston the story might not have been drastically different but the experience sure would be.

I also had the impression Georgia was a larger and more economically important state than South Carolina, whose main exports were rice and treason.

Sherman’s March to the sea is described entirely differently by someone who grew up in the south versus someone who grew up in the north. The perspective and emotion attached to it is diametrically opposed.

I think Sherman’s March is brought up so often for a couple reasons. Among them, all the sources are readily available, in English, and haven’t been destroyed or lost in wars since. Tracking down source material for say, the Franco-Prussian war requires picking through at least two languages, and much of it was lost in the wars that followed. If anything, the Franco-Prussian war was even more influential on military history than the US civil war, but linguistic and cultural chauvinism is a hell of a thing.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

Solaris 2.0 posted:

I would love a show that focused on a single naval ship and it's crew like the USS Enterprise. It would allow for a cohesive narrative that spans the entirety of the war years.

:hmmyes:

The progression from hanging on by the skin of your teeth in 1942 to Midway, to the Big Blue Blanket in 1945 would be a hell of a thing.

Solaris 2.0 posted:

Speaking of, wasn't there supposed to be a follow up WWII HBO miniseries called "The Mighty 8th"? For a few years there was all this news about it then suddenly nothing.

HBO backed out, Apple TV picked it up. There’s a cast list now, and it’s expected in 2022, under the title Masters of the Air.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

Cyrano4747 posted:

They’re both cavalry guidons. I forget why they’re forked but there’s a milhist reason.

Prussians.

It’s always Prussians.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

MrMojok posted:

I understand the FW190D9 was the finest fighter plane of the war, and it wasn't even close.

Source: IL-2 version 4.13.4

also Growling Sidewinder

Counterpoint: A loving cloud of P-51s and P-47s.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

Thomamelas posted:

Who ever was managing the problem couldn't keep scope creep from happening. This isn't a uniquely German problem, anyone who has worked on a big project has encountered this.

Literally any US DoD acquisition project since 1945.

(And most of the ones during the war as well.)

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

There are ways to shoehorn bigger guns into an existing turret ring size (oscillating turrets are a big one,) but they have their own significant pros and cons.

“A new tank” is generally when you’ve run out of ability to throw new gear, thicker armor, more power, or more gun on a platform, and you have engineering start from a clean sheet of paper.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

The Lone Badger posted:

Ultimately pressed is best isn't it? If you have a press big enough.

What you’re talking about is a forging press, not the kind of sheet steel press that is normally expected when someone describes a press in a production environment. This is indeed an optimum solution, but has nearly all of the production issues of both cast and welded products put together, with some new ones to make it spicy. It’s incredibly capital intensive, since for each final part you need several dies for the different stages of forming (something as large and complex as a tank turret is not a single-pass kinda thing,) and any changes mean you’re going to need new dies. The dies have a limited lifespan, so you’re going to need really skilled diemakers continually repairing dies/cranking out new ones. (With casting, the molds are 1:1 mock-ups, used to create the actual sand-casting molds. You need a new mold for a part change, but the molds don’t really wear out.) Even after forging, there is still really a lot of finishing machine work required to produce useable parts.

Oh, and the process takes up lots of time on your biggest forging presses, and the Germans were busy using pretty much all of their large forging presses in the aviation industry. A big part of the reason the USAF started the Heavy Press Program in the fifties was due to how innovative German use of large monolithic forging was in their aircraft designs.

Did anyone ever actually use a monolithic-forged tank turret?

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

Randarkman posted:

A bit late, and not that I think the claim is likely that G43s were commonly used by special ops teams, but Mauser 8mm was probably the most common type of small arms ammo in the world in the first half of 20th century, and a whole shitload of it was produced and used not just by Germans but by militaries all over the world. I'm pretty sure the Chinese had a lot of Mauser rifles for instance. Also pretty common for hunting rifles beyond the military use. I actually wouldn't be surprised if it was still easy to come by in Vietnam in the 50s and 60s.

Hell, it was reasonably easy to get various kinds of surplus 8mm Mauser on the civilian market in the US in the nineties. I shot a ton of that poo poo.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

1st MarDiv went ashore at Guadalcanal mostly armed with M1903s, but by the time 2nd MarDiv assaulted Tarawa, they pretty uniformly had M1s.

The USMC getting army seconds was and is a real thing in peacetime, but by mid 1943 or so, production was at a level that the USMC got nearly anything it wanted. Also, six divisions worth of rifles is a great big rounding error to what the army was buying in 1943/1944. Early 1942, not so much.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply