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Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

General Battuta posted:

You should read my OFFICIALLY CANON star wars story "The Final Order" which is all about the fascism of the Empire and how there's no 'clean Starfleet' (to echo the noxious 'clean Wehrmacht' myth). Except we're not allowed to call it the Imperial Starfleet, despite that being the term from the Empire Strikes Back opening crawl, because it's too Star Trek.

so what are the rules? i assume its "dont mention old poo poo unless we give you thumbs up and nothing that doesnt sound star warsy"


Cessna posted:

Any good books on the rise of the First Order?

(Don't hate me for asking this.)


mandalorian and it sounds like other tv shows will touch on it.


surf rock posted:

I do remember liking that part of it. I think he also had the power of energy absorption? Like when Vader just hand-waved Han's blaster bolt at their Cloud City dinner. Honestly, make Jedi more like X-Men imo.


i always assumed the vader hand deflect was mixed of him being a robotman and force powers.

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Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

Chairman Capone posted:

For a long time, the debate over whether Vergere was dark or not was one of the big controversies on the Jedi Council Forums and other places where the books were discussed. Probably only second to the Traviss shitshow around the same time.

i always assumed she left the jedi because they were way to narrow and than spent too much time with the vong and the "big picture of the force"/force navel gazing and Vong politics and forgot perspective or something.


Gripweed posted:

At least it's a quick read.

how was it? i always liked dooku as a character concept for various reasons.

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

Gripweed posted:

its not that quick, it's over 400 pages. But I'm more than a quarter through it already. I am somewhat at a handicap here because my understanding is that Count Dooku is in Star Wars 2 and 3, and I only saw Star Wars 2 once, on television, and I don't think I saw all of it. And I'm not sure if I've ever seen Star Wars 3, I might've just watched the Plinkett review. And even that was quite a long time ago, so basically I have no idea who this dude is.

I did kinda enjoy the detail that apparently a ton of people have left the Jedi Order over the years for all sorts of reasons, but this has never made the Order reconsider any of their very stupid rules.

i think its more that i liked christopher lee and the old canon books including the weirdly very good episode 3 novel, paints him as upper class sociopath who hides behind vague idealism and upper class decorum but is basically just a space racist with money who thought that palpatine would put him in some giant place of power after he surrendered and would blame the gleep glops and grievous for the crimes. one of the few things that i agreed with Lucas about that he ended up cutting was dooku begging for his life when he got dehanded. which honestly fits the picture they paint of him.


Chairman Capone posted:


It's been years so I forget a lot of this but I remember a big problem with Vergere and her true motivations is that a lot of authors wrote a lot of contradictory stuff about her. Like it was never clear whether she knew about the Potentium before going to Zonama Sekot, or whether she was a Sith apprentice secretly or whether she went with the Vong because she tried and failed to assassinate Palpatine and wanted to GTFO, or whether the Potentium was canonically a secret dark side plot or not or whether Qui-Gon was even a Potentium advocate....

I think it was a mix of a lot of people at Lucasfilm having strong opinions and trying to write them into canon, while also not reading (and/or caring) what other authors interpreted about it.


sounds about right. honestly i feel like it would work better if they wrote he the way i said. some one he basicaly saw that both sides were poo poo so why bother and basicaly is fine working with space mutalators because she cares more about the flowing of the force or some yoda type navel gazing and finding oneself/etc no matter the cost.

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

Baron Fuzzlewhack posted:

Did Dooku ever get more than a mononym? Or is he just... Dooku?


It’s always dooku. Honestly it’s one of the few that works with no mononym. Dudes a inbred lord or someshit. It’s like those British lords where they all go by familly/house name.

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

Gripweed posted:

At one point in Dooku: Jedi Lost, a sound is described as rising "like the Beatles A Day in the Life". That's in a Star Wars book. They literally didn't edit the script at all before printing it as a book and selling it in actual book stores for MSRP $25.

Those self-published Amazon ebooks that try to piggyback off popular searches by being called like "The Star: Wars: Hammer of the 40,000 Space Marines Episode 9: Babylon Lexx" Are more professionally produced than this.

wait seriously? can you like take a picture or something. id like to send it to my friend if real.

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

thanks for that. like i get why. its describing audio sound effects and i guess describing something like. "a bith orgasming" wouldnt explain the sound right but still lol.

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.
Well, I just had to laugh
I saw the holograph
He blew his mind out in a speeder
He didn't notice that the lights had changed
A crowd of people stood and stared
They'd seen his face before
Nobody was really sure if he was from the House of Motti

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

Drone posted:

I'm about 75% of the way finished with it and I feel pretty much the exact same way. Star Wars authors (at least, newer ones?) tend to have a weird perception of time and what things qualify as "ancient". Pretty sure I read something recently (maybe on Wookieepedia?) that described something about the High Republic timeline as being "ancient" when... no? Like, you wouldn't call something from the 1820's "ancient" in our world -- in Star Wars it's multiplied given how static the entire universe is over most of its 25,000 year history. 200-odd years before OT shouldn't feel ancient, it should feel like, idk, the mid 20th century feels to us.

Like, I legit had to look up whether or not they were retconning the Old Republic timeline stuff from ca. 3000 BBY out of canon (no, they aren't, it turns out) because it seems like they're sort of trying to sell this period as its replacement. Shoulda set these books immediately after the Ruusan Reformations imo. Way far enough away from the prequel trilogy to make poo poo feel really and truly old, it fits well into Palpatines "this Republic which has stood for 1000 years" line, and gives more than enough time to intimate that the corruption of the Republic is an arc that spanned nearly a millennium and not... you know, within the space of like 2 generations from its zenith.

I have a lot of other problems with Light of the Jedi beyond the setting. Overall I'm having an okay enough time reading it I guess but it just feels like a poorly-written, poorly-conceived waste of potential that was designed by committee. Much like Star Wars has been for the last while heyoooooo

Edit: oh and the Nihil are just loving awful as villains.

i assume they are keeping the poo poo that far back in the past vague since they are still milking Old republic/kotor money and while its not "canon" its still sorta treated like it. so when lucasfilm game remakes the game and makes it canon, than they have the "space".

so what else is wrong with it? is it just not different enough or is it too different?

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

Drone posted:

Alright, I finished Light of the Jedi last night. Here are some thoughts, I'll try to keep actual spoilers marked. But either way, don't read if you don't want to know absolutely anything about the High Republic stuff so far. Note: I haven't read any of the High Republic comics or YA stuff released so far, and likely won't, so this book is happening for me (and I assume for most readers) in a vacuum.

The Bad
  • It hits you with it right from the very beginning: it's just not well-written. Maybe it's more the fault of the editing, I dunno, I don't know what the author was going through during the process. But from the reader's perspective, it hits you right from the very beginning (which also, consequently, is very weak in general). I mentioned before that the writing, particularly in the first few chapters, reminded me of David Weber orders a pizza: tons of empty, filler prose that tells rather than shows. Absolute tons of needless backstory exposition for characters that die in the same chapter they're introduced.
  • This is a very minor thing but it ties back into the thing being poorly-written: there are several moments where a character uses vernacular that just take you straight out of the story. A fair few modern (American) English words or turns-of-phrase that feel out of place in Star Wars. Like I said, very minor nitpick that doesn't go nearly as far as the Beatles reference someone mentioned awhile back, but it feels weird when a Star Wars character calls something "cool". Star Wars has a rich history of made-up and funny/bullshit slang words that you sort of expect -- they're totally absent here, replaced with modern real-world slang. It's just strange.
  • It seems like the author saw a sort of GRRM-style "cast of thousands" approach and decided it would be cool to play with, but the impact of exploring the story from multiple perspectives is strongly dampened by almost all of those perspectives being basically the same. And also by the fact that a good half of those perspectives don't survive the first third/half of the story. Nearly all of the main characters are Jedi -- there's only so much diversity of perspective that that will be able to give you. Sure, not all Jedi are the same, but they are all exploring the story from a very specific mindset. This kind of storytelling really only works if you have a strong diversity of viewpoints, and unfortunately that generally falls on its face.
  • I've read it elsewhere and it feels 100% true: they feel like they're just looking to see which one of these characters generates the most ~*social buzz*~ so that they know who to make a TV show about. It's very overt.
  • I mentioned it before, but the antagonist faction is just the loving worst. They are, with one exception that I can think of, actively unfun to read (especially given that three of them are viewpoint characters). Edgelord "rape and pillage characters just for the sake of raping and pillaging" bullshit that is absolutely not compelling. At least the Sith, played-out as they may be, are at least compelling because they are impelled by a concrete ideology and an ethos -- the Nihil are not, and that is apparently by design (iirc the writing team has explicitly said that they want the Nihil to be without any ideology, just lovely Firefly-style reavers). To be fair, this is also something that the final scene in the book with the main antagonist character seems to call into question, as something that may or may not be a Sith artifact or something is revealed, along with an ambiguous line about how the main antagonist character may not actually be who he is purported to be.
  • The device that they use to make the Nihil a threat to the Republic/Jedi is pretty drat dumb, but that's mostly a personal taste thing... I've seen people who think their whole take on hyperdrive is interesting. This is the most irrational gut feeling bad bit for me -- it just doesn't sit with me well, though other previous canon-breaking stuff like this in the old EU didn't really put me off as much. But it's also something I can get over.
  • This is mostly a general comment that doesn't apply to any one specific scene, rather to many: the novel has taken the already-simmering level of anime behind the Jedi and their power and turned it up to 11 over 9000. The sheer amount of "bullshit that I am able to do because I'm a space wizard" in this story is extreme. Jedi who falls out of a ship in low orbit and lands safely on a planet's surface after falling for kilometers, Jedi changing the trajectory of an object moving at near-lightspeed, Jedi creating a rainstorm by just thinking about it real hard, on and on and on. I get that this is the period when the Jedi are supposed to be at the apex of their power, but it goes way too far into Dragon Ball Z territory and just becomes ridiculous and removes any dramatic tension (which, together with not really caring about most of these one-dimensional characters, makes the entire thing boring).

The Good
  • While most of the characters or boring, there are a few that pop out as being more interesting and worthy of further exploration. Bell, Avar, and Elzar pop out immediately as the most interesting of the Jedi characters that are worthy of delving more into, and I assume that will be happening. Loden is fairly okay, and will definitely be appearing in upcoming material. There aren't really any non-Jedi characters that are interesting enough for me to want to see more of... maybe the dude who networked 50,000 droids together to solve a math problem, but I've forgotten his name (not a good sign!).
  • I mentioned the antagonist faction being bad and a chore to read -- there is one character that actually, eventually, became somewhat interesting Kassav, who becomes interesting right at the beginning of the book's final battle sequence, and then is promptly killed like ten pages later.
  • Though the writing starts out just straight-up bad, it does get slightly better as the book goes on. It never becomes great, but it definitely approaches a much more "average Star Wars book" standard about two-thirds of the way through.
  • The book is a very fast read. I only read for about a half hour before bed most nights, and got through it quite quickly in little chunks like that.
  • There are plenty of minor ideas that are actually cool and good, and some of them get at least a little touch of exploration, but they get buried in the other ideas that are just bad. Someone else mentioned that the explanation of how each Jedi perceives the Force differently was legit cool and I hope sticks around.
  • Despite its many flaws, I still kinda liked it? Can't really explain why, it was just empty calorie junk food, and sometimes that kind of thing is nice to have. It somehow remains enjoyable enough in the face of all of its issues. I wouldn't recommend the book to anyone, but I also wouldn't say "this thing is a trashfire that I hated reading" either. It was exactly as we all anticipated it would be: a bland, corporate, paint-by-numbers exploration of a new setting so that Disney can see if it's going to be a money-printer or not.

sucks. so Nihil are just space raiders but their leader might have another agenda or some poo poo. lol

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

Drone posted:

Yep, basically.

lol. star wars has never been original, which is kinda some of its charm at times though to obvious detriments but lol if they can't make an interesting factions. i have seen star wars writers do sorta original concepts even if they are overated ( i am looking at you KOTOR 2) but this shits just loving lazy of the the lazy.

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

Chairman Capone posted:

I think the Ruusan Reformation is still canonical. If not by name, then the fact there was a big war against the Sith leading to their "destruction" (but really Bane) a thousand years ago, the "Old" Republic was crippled, and then changed into the OT-era Republic by Valorum's ancestor. Luceno's Tarkin novel has a lot of that general backstory in it.

Speaking of, I was looking through my bookshelf the other day, and came across my old copy of the Phantom Menace novelization. I have a confession to make: I have a big soft spot for that book. I know everyone loves the ROTS novelization, but the TPM one will always have a spot in my heart. Lot of fond memories of avidly reading it before the movie itself came out, and loving that Coruscant was going to be in the movies. Not to mention it's one of those things where all my friends had a copy too, but I was the only one who had the one with Maul's face on the cover, which is still the best version.

i personally sorta count everything before ruusan as canon, i mean they are still making updates for that mmo so gently caress it why not. i can see reavan and co and all that stupid insane poo poo it turned into thanks to kotor 2 partly as canon because its still super far back in time that it "doesnt really matter" least until that remake comes out or whatever they are doing with kotor now that disney got sick of EA loving around.

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

Chairman Capone posted:

There actually have been a lot of references to KOTOR and The Old Republic in the new canon already, back from the very start of the reboot. Darth Bane's "Moraband" temple from the (original) ending of The Clone Wars was a direct use of the Sith Academy design from The Old Republic, for example. The TOR Jedi symbol has shown up a few times, too. And obviously Malachor has played a big role.

While not exactly the same I also liked the fact the krayt dragon episode of The Mandalorian was pretty clearly inspired by the krayt dragon side quest in KOTOR.

reading wookipeida. thats just one type of krayt dragon so yeah pretty much.

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.
hot take. Darksabers Durga the Hutt is basicaly trump in star wars. including the shoddy buildings and dumb rear end fascist poo poo

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

Chairman Capone posted:

Yeah, that conclusion was kind of hard to escape. Plus, I think killing Chewie was probably the best option if they were going to kill one of the core movie characters, in terms of difficulty of writing dialogue. Even R2 is a bit easier given he can be a hacker type character, use holograms, etc.

That being said, it is kind of weird how the EU completely pigeonholed Lando as "failed businessman" given that's not really how he is in any of the movies.

Of course, now in the Disneyverse we know he spends thirty years living in space-RV on that desert planet hoping his kidnapped daughter will show up. So that's kind of exciting and innovative, I guess.

i like the idea of lando not being a "failed" businessman but more the type of dude who gets bored and always tries weird risky ventures or innovative ideas and its rarely about the money because he probably has a ton of it and outside appearence and some cool poo poo, its not the biggest deal to him anymore. sometimes it works, some times it doesn't. thats more what i got from the old books.



Jazerus posted:

lando is always in a quantum state of using decommissioned imperial equipment to mine in some unbelievably impractical location. doesn't matter what you come up with, he's doing it - using star destroyer repulsor engines to elevate a city built entirely from recovered scrap of the death star which sends tie bombers equipped with mining torpedoes to extract chunks of the planet's core? lando has done it, is doing it, and will do it

i mean, the dude owned a loving theme park, he is just an eccentric rich adventurer who has good taste and diverse assets. he would be running star wars equivalent of shark tank but he would invest in like every idea. dude probably doesnt even demand payment back and probably works like Akiyama where he just makes them do weird tests to see what their character is and poo poo. i like my idea of lando drat it.

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

Arquinsiel posted:

He just gets drunk and goes "hey I bet you could, like, totally mine for flarknarg crystals on the moon of Hermpadermp with Palpatine's nerf-ivory backscratcher collection" and some dude at the bar goes "Lando that's a terrible idea" and then C-3PO is all "the odds of that working are-" and that's it, he's already on the phone to his space bookie.

yeah and of course he has like a bunch of connections with experts in all of that poo poo.

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

Chairman Capone posted:



I mean, this is from literally the original appearance of Soontir Fel and tied into his entire character arc and intention to defect to Rogue Squadron, I feel like it's not a huge groaner to the extent of like half of the Mos Eisley patrons being involved in stealing the Death Star plans.

do they ever actually like rescue his sister or whatever. because i had the comics and they never really go anywhere outside i think rescuing fel's sister and someone shoots some rear end in a top hat through the head while he is holding a kid MJ style over a balcony and the brawny butch coded lady pilot (who is a secret princess who killed her brother after he got brainwashed by vader) catches said kid.


T___A posted:

Yeah, I do emphasize with him on Traviss' Mando wank but he should've handled that a lot better.

i will say i like the disney/clone wars ideas of the mandos, that they kinda have the whole Klingon warrior society poo poo but there are different levels of devotion and poo poo but you also see that they are all kinda assholes. i also like that the empire goes full ceasars legion on their asses and they either got subsumed into the empire OR they get slaughtered/driven underground.

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

Chairman Capone posted:



If I remember right, this was supposed to be shown in the comic but the series was canceled early (in what feels now like a kind of soft-reset that Dark Horse did in 1998/99 to pave the way for the prequel tie-ins). The idea was that going to be part of a tie-in miniseries to Zahn's later Thrawn books that would show how Baron Fel was recruited by Thrawn, but that also never came about.

yeah. i remember reading the essential guide and than scouring for the comics but yeah that makes sense.


Arcsquad12 posted:

I dont know if they actually did have their poo poo together. The New Essential Chronology has more than its share of errors in it but it mostly succeeded in the monumental task of charting the in-universe history of the galaxy in a way that made logical sense. But if you look at individual stories you have to wonder if anyone knew what the overall plan was.

galactic warfare also ties a bunch of poo poo together too. like they tie together the dumbass villian from crystal star and make him allies with fyra and dessann from outcast and their whole movement is called "empire reborn". poo poo like that.

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCHJwu7ozwo



ScottyJSno posted:

I could have sworn that one of the Thrawn books or in a comic, they explicitly said they cloned Fel for the TIE fighter corps. Or am misremembering books and comics I last read 10+ years ago?

idk. the fel stuff is weird because most of the poo poo never even ends up in books or anything. he just became this cool Imp mary sue who had some cool comic moments but than never did anything.

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

Chairman Capone posted:

Baron Fel himself is kind of odd in that outside of the last few volumes of the X-Wing comic, he doesn't really appear in any stories. He has a cameo in one of the Crispin Solo books, and I think one or two of the NJO books. So the character casts this long shadow that's basically bolstered by references and sourcebook stuff but his actual appearances are almost nil. Kind of like Thrawn in that way, actually, at least before the endless Thrawn prequel appearances.

Actually looking it up now on Wookieepedia, the 181st Squadron itself is not really in a lot of stories, which surprises me. I feel like I remembered them showing up everywhere in the old EU.

exactly. he is more meta made history than anything in canon. thrawn was at least in other books and comics and games and poo poo even if it was cameos.

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.
since the ps4/switch port got announced for republic commando. i am curious how the books are. i bought hard contact for cheap but how are the sequels?

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

jivjov posted:

Karen Traviss is one of my favorite Star Wars authors....when she stays off in her own little Mando themed corner. The RepCom books are all real solid, but you have to be willing to go with the fact that everyone who is a POV character REALLY HATES JEDI and is a ride or die Mando lover

Chairman Capone posted:

You already have her one good book, stay away from the rest.

Also, not sure if you know this or not, but just in case: there is very little overlap between the books and game. For the first book I think essentially none.

thanks for the replies. yeah, i'll probably stick with hard contact and if i enjoy it, i'll pick up the others too.

https://www.starwars.com/news/the-secrets-of-the-sith-exclusive-reveal

i guess this is coming out, how was secrets of the jedi compared to the old essential guides?

edit: oh its an out and outs kids book, ehh gently caress that.

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

thrawn527 posted:

That's certainly possible. But I think it's more likely that they didn't expect Mando to be so popular, so they figured why not have a tie in novel. But now Mando is going to be the centerpiece to, like, a dozen (hyperbole, I know who I'm talking to) new shows, and the fact is that the books are always going to be background and second class citizens in Star Wars, so the "adults in the room" are going to handle Mando moving forward. So any books will be figured out later, after they lay the groundwork with the new shows.

yeah. like why make a book when you can just push out a side mini series about a popular character.

Teek posted:

Yeah, I think it's the continuity being in a constant state of flux around the series and era. They don't want to constrain Favreau and Filoni. I would think they could do a one-off story about Mando tracking down a bounty before the first episode, but maybe they don't think that would be a draw.

yeah. they can also probably fix poo poo that was wrong with the sequel trilogy with tv shows and poo poo.


VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:

The problem was that the main guy pushing that message was the antagonist who was depicted throughout as confused, torn, and ultimately mistaken. Even within TLJ itself.

Like that was even Luke's arc, being pushed back towards not rejecting the wisdom of the past amidst all the failures.

this. i never understand the folks who legit think kylos "gently caress them all, burn it all down for not being like US" poo poo is some genuinly good faith statement. its toxic selfish statement from a dude who realizes every father figure he has had has failed him and such. so he just wants to light the village that rejected him on fire. the movie is pretty loving expclicit that he is in the wrong here even if he has a point. but twitter folks are morons. than they ruined it all with TRS

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

Chairman Capone posted:

The official site just announced that Droids is going to be added later this year, thankfully. Really looking forward to that. It's very goofy but I think it's high enough quality to watch if you don't mind watching old 80s kids cartoons. Plus it's interesting in that a lot of little bits of it kept showing up in the prequels.

Del Rey also announced that as part of the Lucasfilm 50th anniversary, they're releading new trade paperback editions of certain Legends books with new cover art. The first ones announced are Heir to the Empire, the first Darth Bane book (lol), and Shatterpoint, which is also going to get an unabridged audiobook for the first time.

yeah, i listened to the abridged version and it just kinda ended with a fart if i remember.

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

Robot Style posted:

I feel like that's on purpose. There's no way we're not going to see Episode X somewhere down the line (they'll trot out Lucas' old "12 Episodes" thing to justify it), and they're not going to want another canon reset, so Episode 9 is going to be the endpoint for the galaxy until the next trilogy.

It's the same reason we're never going to see Bothans again - they don't want to step on the toes of a hypothetical Rogue Two (not Zev).

this. they are gonna do bunch of tv shows and fill up the 20 or so years between 3 and 4 and also the 30 or so years between 6 and 7. then eventually they will probably do a new trilogy.


jivjov posted:

Yeah, especially with Episode IX telling us Palpatine is fundamentally immortal, and the war is continuing for another cycle, there's gonna be some Big Thing post 7-9 -- be it a Sequel-er trilogy, a big capstone episode X, something.

i think sheeve is dead. Ian McDiarmid isnt getting any younger(though him being dead don't mean poo poo as we have already seen) i think it will be some other dark side threat they start building up in the other shows and poo poo.

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

Robot Style posted:

That's actually two different endings John Knoll was thinking about when initially pitching the movie.

One with Coruscant:


And one with Carbonite:


Of course, John Knoll's a VFX guy and not a writer, so when Lucasfilm hired Gary Whitta to turn the pitch into an actual movie, they went with a different, but still happier, ending:


But they decided that if saving the characters was going to be this convoluted and require so many hoops to jump through, it's probably best for the story if they don't survive.

i dont actually hate that though. it explains why the rebels don't really have any capital ships to through against the death star plus them just escaping into the sunset kinda undercuts the "look how deeply hosed the rebellion is" theme.

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

thrawn527 posted:

I know the Jenkins reveal trailer has an old school X-Wing as well, which would hint to some time around the OT as well. If they've even decided on a timeframe yet.

i assume its after yavin/before hoth type timeline.

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

thrawn527 posted:

Assume away. My point is that we have no idea. The teaser trailer implies OT timeline, but they may not have actually decided anything at that point, and were just throwing a bone to OT Rogue Squadron fans. I mean, maybe.

We really don’t know yet. Which is fun! Enjoy this period of uncertainty!

yeah. true.


I will say republic commando game still holds up on consoles.

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

General Battuta posted:

The thing that's extremely clever about Republic Commando is that it's on paper just another narrow-corridor heavily scripted shooter, exactly like a zillion others from that time. But it lets the player cue all the scripted sequences. "Cover 62 while he blows up the droid dispenser" would be a boring set piece once, let alone repeated 150 times. But the choice to let the player tell 62 to blow up the droid dispenser makes it part of play and suddenly it goes from insufferable to really pretty fun. You can set up your guys where you like them and then tell 62 to do his thing, and maybe he'll fail and you'll have to go revive him, or try to do it yourself, or put a different squadmate on the job, or whatever. Just putting the scripted sequence in the gameplay where it can be touched by all the other gameplay systems does so much work.

There are a couple other neat things about that game too, like enemies which will actually advance all the way up to you (aside from the usual melee/suicide guys most shooter enemies just kind of flit around between cover and wait for you to make a move). And it has great audio. I really like that game.

i love it for the same reasons, but i do hate the super battle droids. they are a bitch to kill even if you do the grenade then shoot thing.

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

cptn_dr posted:

It was the only game I ever managed to get my parents' surround sound to work with, and that was a phenomenal experience. One of those teenage gaming highlights that nothing else will ever live up to the memory of.

yeah, that and jedi outcas/accdemy were awsome.


i think the biggest issue i have is how weak the weapons are. like the main rifle does jack poo poo alot. the attachments do more but they are just limited use basicaly. outside the "shotgun" and the bowcaster" they kinda suck. i love the game but its a game of its time.

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

Chairman Capone posted:

One thing that confused me as a kid was that the X-wing comic and book series are pretty much completely different. There are a few overlaps (especially the end of the comic series that shows how Isard comes to power, and the short storyline with Corran still as a cop on Corellia) but essentially no direct overlap, at least until you get to the Isard's Revenge novel which is both a sequel to the comics and to the Thrawn Trilogy.


the comics basicaly ended early for some reason. its why you never get a in canon ending of Fel outside poo poo in the essential guides telling that he went back to the empire or some poo poo.

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

The Shame Boy posted:

I wonder which series of events would be worse to live through

Is it the movie version of events of "fight the empire in our 20s and then the first order in our 50s-60s"

Or what the legends timeline eventually setteled into with "different galactic threats to deal with every 5 years or so, but we're also still fighting into our 50s-60s"

probably the former.

Arcsquad12 posted:

Well with Mandalorian emphasizing the battle against the Imperial Remnant was still ongoing well after the end of the Galactica Civil War and the new Star Wars shows almost certainly building up to a crossover event where they fight Grand Admiral Thrawn, I'd say you're asking the wrong question. The question you should be asking is whether it's worse to be in a setting where you fight Space Nazis for 50 years versus a setting where you fight Space Nazis for 50 years as well as biggest orgies and BDSM Aztecs.

yeah. i mean space nazis forever is more realistic for the universe. but i also feel like the various imp civil wars that go on for 20 years is realistic too.

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

Chairman Capone posted:

Five or six years ago, Insider had a two part article which was the transcript of the discussion where Splinter of the Mind's Eye was planned, it had Lucas, Foster, a few other people, and some of the ideas the threw out during the planning stages was even wilder than the actual book. Off the top of my head, one idea was that it was going to be set five or six years after A New Hope, Luke was going to become a Rebel version of James Bond, he and Leia would be in a relationship, and Leia would be killed which would send Luke into a killing spree. Also the first idea for the villain was Tarkin, who would have survived the Death Star somehow.

They've said his name only once but I think the inference is meant to be that Thrawn is behind stuff like Moff Gideon or the Imperial activity that the New Republic pilot mentions.

I have a bit of a love-hate opinion with Black Fleet. There's a lot of individual stuff in it that I like - Luke's opening moral conflict with what it means to be a Jedi, Leia's political career actually being dealt with seriously, Han moving beyond just playing smuggler, Chewie actually remembering that he has a family, Lando and the droids doing Rendezvous with Rama, the villain not being yet another Dark Jedi or Imperial warlord, and trying to depict what it actually would mean for a democratic government to peacefully keep a galaxy united now that the unifying threat of the Empire is gone.

Compared to the Thrawn Trilogy for instance (or the sequel movies), it's one of the only EU books that really felt like the characters and the galaxy were actually allowed to develop beyond the holding pattern at the end of ROTJ.

But on the other hand, while I really like a lot of those individual elements, they don't necessarily gel together, and there are a lot of other things (Luke's search for his mother for instance) which just don't work at all.


1. i am always weirdly shocked they never brought tarken back in the old EU because they basically brought everyone else back.

2, thrawn is mentioned in ashoka pilot spin off.

3. black fleet was weird because it was in that period of the EU where they got tired of the Empire being the bad guy but they hadnt made the vong yet. so you would just have weird villians of the week. like off brand vader dipshit Kueller, and brakiss who kinda hosed around and then died. and various warlords.

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

Casimir Radon posted:

One thing that really annoyed me when I moved from young adult novels to adult ones was how much of a non-character Brakiss is. YJK built him up to be some huge bad guy, and his only real appearance is in The New Rebellion. It’s only really a cameo, and of course the book isn’t very good. Stackpole had him as a background character in I, Jedi, to help flesh out the academy portions of the book. But that was more of an afterthought.

yeah. they kept trying to make a new thrawn but none of them had any build up or any real interesting character developments. i guess isard counts as an ok villian.

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

jivjov posted:

Yeah theyre not actually changing the name, just using the model name instead or calling it "Boba Fett's Starship". I've seen lots of chud meltdowns about "political correctness gone mad" or whatever.

yeah. they are chud idiots. the only issue i have with canon changes was tarkin being a romantic person, like making tarkin into some romantic old man looking for the perfect young man to love him back and genuinely caring about the man. that just doesn't work with tarkin for me. i feel tarkin would be a "gently caress and throw away" type of rear end in a top hat and uses people as a release valve. like i don't think he would be some sadist or anything but its like he doesn't strike me as man who cares about people beyond himself. like yeah old canon had dala and such but even then he basicaly used her as a toy and respected that she was smart but the second poo poo look bad for his marriage he tossed her into a black hole to rot. but new canon, he seems way way to hosed up and broken of a person to have a real love affair. he doesn't love anyone but himself and climbing the ladder and "restoring order". its not an issue and its an ok story. its just kinda doesn't fit my view of him.

http://www.scififantasynetwork.com/tarkins-gay-lover-star-wars-bizarre/

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

Lord Hydronium posted:

There was actually one Grand Admiral still fighting, so Pellaeon was probably acting well above his authority.

Also not relevant to the post-battle, but there was another Grand Admiral, Declann, who blew up with the Death Star.

i love his little story in the guide to warfare. like him getting sent on a suicide mission for some perceived gently caress up and then his entire crew dying and then hallucinating the future and then getting made into that because palpy was watching the whole thing.



Xenomrph posted:

One could approach it similarly to how the Warhammer 40K canon is handled: “everything is canon, not everything is true.”

thats kinda how disney treats it but also "everything is canon until the movies say otherwise."

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

OhFunny posted:

The Legends material for a lot of the movie events is convoluted.

Things are setup like this:

The Emperor, Darth Vader, Grand Admirals Declann, Makati, Takel, and Teshik are aboard the Death Star.

Piett is leading the fleet aboard Executer

Unknown CO on Pride of Tarlandia is second in line.

Admiral Strage aboard Chimaera is third in line.

Admirals Prittick (Truce at Bakura) and Harrsk (Darksaber) are also present.

Things then play out roughly like this:


  • Pride of Tarlandia is blown up.
  • Executer crashes into the Death Star II.
  • Admiral Strage is killed as Chimaera comes under fire.
  • The Emperor and Darth Vader kill each other.
  • Grand Admirals Makati and Takel, realizing the situation has gone sideways, flee.
  • Grand Admiral Declann is killed when the Death Star II explodes.
  • Admiral Harrsk is injured and in a bacta tank or hallucinating.
  • Grand Admiral Teshik, having escaped the Death Star II, attempts to assert command from his Star Destroyer.
  • Captain Pellaeon, seeing the situation is hopeless, orders the retreat.
  • As Chimaera is now lead ship and it's unclear how many are aware Admiral Strage is dead. The fleet follows her out.
  • Teshik stays to fight it out until he's captured and executed for war crimes.
  • The Imperial fleet, now safely away, sorts out that Admiral Prittick is now the ranking officer. He can't figure out how to proceed. (and is never mentioned again.)
  • Harrsk decides he's a warlord now and bails.

that kinda works well enough. the Imps go in cocky that this is some big super trap to crush the rebels and a ton of the top brass is their to mark the glorious end to their careers or some poo poo. then the rebels start rolling 20s and most of the top brass either dies or flees.


Arc Hammer posted:

Jakku being the last battle against the Empire tracks with Disney New Republic's utter failure to capitalize on rooting out the Imperial remnants. They scored a major victory at Jakku, signed a hasty armistice, and then left the Rim alone allowing Imperial Warlords to settle in without much worry of major offensives against them.


yeah pretty much. i think the idea was they killed the big fleets of the empire in two engagements and then brought went brought on a ton of ex imperials outside the ones that fled or were obvious war criminals.

Arc Hammer posted:

The Disney canon either intentionally or unintentionally set the Rebellion up to be a rather depressing pet project of former politicians and businesspeople who benefited from the status quo of the Republic and that tracks with their absolute failure to enact meaningful reform after Endor. With newer stuff like Mando, writers are now touching on how the New Republic is kinda poo poo for the galaxy because their only goal was to be in charge rather than the Empire, and the Rim and other dispossessed and marginalized worlds can go gently caress themselves.

i mean yeah pretty much. they want to old republic back but with some reforms and new coat of paint but didnt route out the empire or at least the hardliners. i wouldnt put them that fully selfish, but its clear they didnt really have much of a plan post war galaxy outside, 1. make republic 2.0 2. do some reforms. 3. dont gently caress around in the galaxy with military entanglements.

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

Arc Hammer posted:

Should have done an Ackbar's March to the SeaRim to utterly crush the Imperials.

maybe they will. i could see it happening.

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

Jazerus posted:

fey'lya is such a weird character. he's basically Leia's Designated Nemesis to give her something to do in her stay-on-Coruscant politician-mom role and the various authors' understandings of leia's character are so far apart that fey'lya comes across as this insane power-hungry politician with constantly shifting positions and ideology whose sole consistent character trait is that he doesn't like whatever leia is doing at the moment. stackpole's depiction is probably the only one that has no relationship to leia as such and is more about just making fey'lya the troubling "dark side" of the rebel alliance/new republic coalition which our boy corn horn can virtuously condemn as he flies around in his cop x-wing

I dont actually hate him as a character. he is an opportunistic "nationalist" who takes contrarian positions to the majority because thats what weird ghouls like him do. doesn't help that he was basicaly alliance IC so he knows everyone's secrets but he is too up his own rear end and petty to use power in a smart way until its too late.

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

Chairman Capone posted:

I met someone named Jaina once, I never asked but I feel like she had to have been named after the EU character. She was just the right age to have been born a few years into the Bantam era.

I also know there are a few people who run Star Wars fan sites who named their sons Anakin, and, uh.....

i always feel bad for kids named obvious popular fantasy Sci-Fi names or naming them after your waifu or whatever. "meet your new classmate, khaleesi'Zorah vas Hufflpuff"

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Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

jivjov posted:

I picked my own name, and I'm a whole rear end adult, so my opinion maybe doesn't count for a whole lot, but at least some people can exercise restraint and make their pop culture references subtle. Like, I see the dentist for the first time since starting my transition today, and unless the receptionist is also a big nerd, "Jaina" isn't going to set off alarm bells as NERD NAME!

Keep it subtle, or confined to a middle name, and it's much less obnoxious than most.

congrats and thats a genuinely good name. yeah. i feel like much like t-shirts/clothing nerd poo poo works best either stylish and/or subtle.


Cross-Section posted:

The official blog post has some deets, though it’s still difficult to say what exactly they’re doing besides “bringing it up to modern standards”: https://blog.playstation.com/2021/09/09/star-wars-knights-of-the-old-republic-remake-is-the-legendary-tale-remade-on-playstation-5/

edit: PC confirmed https://twitter.com/lucasfilmgames/status/1436066933032439824?s=21

i kinda assume its gonna play more like dragon age inquisition or DA2 or the FF7 remake.. auto combat with turn based elements from the original game arnt bad but it was always the weakest part of KOTOR.

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