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VaultAggie posted:Speaking of Star Wars book, when do the High Republic books come out? I’ll need something to tide me over since Mando finished. The randomized choices also include Maarek Stele (player character from TIE Fighter) and Ace Azzameen (player character from X-wing Alliance).
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Dec 28, 2020 18:11
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Right now I'm reading Lost Stars and the main thing I'm really enjoying out of it is how it makes members of the empire more sympathetic. Particularly passages like this (from right after the death star done blew up alderaan):Claudia Gray posted:If only the Empire had not been forced to take such dramatic action. If only the Rebel Alliance had never arisen from whatever mixture of discontent and arrogance fueled its leaders. These terrorists had gambled on the proposition that the Empire would never strike back. Now at last they had been proved wrong-but Ciena wondered whether their leaders would ever take responsibility for the horrible measures necessary to stop this rebellion--this war--before the entire galaxy had been plunged into chaos. Probably not. While I was browsing through this thread I saw a post about how it's problematic that this book humanizes someone who is submitting and serving fascism, and I haven't finished the book so I'm not really arguing that point here I suppose, but I do think there is a lot of value in writing characters who are doing the mental calculations required to rationalize their service and try to answer the question "are we the baddies?" in a way that correctly engineers the easier solution of "no, everything is fine, I am fine to continue serving in this organization." I will always be infinitely more interested in this sort of almost mundane, bureaucratic evil than I am the tolkien-esque dark side power fantasy temptations of the Force.
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Dec 28, 2020 18:43
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Thats why the 7th episode of season 2 of Mando is fantastic. It starts by setting up a thesis that the Empire and New Republic aren't so different in the eyes of the regular everyday person. Then you get a vicious pirate attack on an imperial convoy followed by a heroic rescue by tie fighters and a motorcade full of cheering Imperial diehards. Its a major moment of dissonance where you are seeing the other side being the underdogs and celebrating a hard earned win like actual people and not a bunch of fanatical tyrants. But then you start peeling back the layers, hearing about what the Empire did to its own personnel during Operation Cinder, listening to the sociopathic officer talking the party line with total conviction and the you realize that, even if the Empire is made up of people you can empathize with, it is still wrong and the New Republic is an improvement even if it is a shambling mess. Those pirates were local fighters destroying the convoys rather than stealing it and in any other context they would be heroic. Decent people can still work for the wrong side.
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Dec 28, 2020 19:15
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thrawn527 posted:Just so we’re clear, I made a typo earlier. I’m not putting Halo in the OP here. I’ve never read any Halo books, and I don’t really see a reason to link Halo and Star Wars books. But talk about them in here all you want, whatever floats your boat. Did Avatar get any tie-in novels?
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Dec 28, 2020 19:37
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Gripweed posted:Did Avatar get any tie-in novels? I assume you don’t mean The Last Airbender, in which case I don’t think so, because when I google it, all I find are Last Airbender tie in books. They may be waiting for James Cameron to make his 4 insane sequels that no one is asking for. Unless you did mean The Last Airbender, in which case google tells me I have good news for you...
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Dec 28, 2020 19:50
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thrawn527 posted:I assume you don’t mean The Last Airbender, in which case I don’t think so, because when I google it, all I find are Last Airbender tie in books. No I meant the movie Avatar. I know there was a tie-in comic, so I was wondering about novels. But I guess it makes sense people don't want to write stuff that could get overwritten by the upcoming movies.
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Dec 28, 2020 20:01
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George Kansas posted:Right now I'm reading Lost Stars and the main thing I'm really enjoying out of it is how it makes members of the empire more sympathetic. Particularly passages like this (from right after the death star done blew up alderaan): I agree that this is valuable but there's a very thin line between this and "Clean Wehrmacht".
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Dec 28, 2020 20:26
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Hence why The Believer rocks. Because they might be people but they're still space nazis and Bill Burr does the right thing shooting them all. Because gently caress em. Being human doesn't make you right.
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Dec 28, 2020 20:35
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All of this is handled very well in the original Mobile Suit Gundam. You can have sympathetic characters on the bad guy side because, for a lot of them, it's not really an issue of ideological commitment. They lived in a place, and that place went to war, so that's the side of the war they're on. Juts like how it is in real wars. The empire has been around for 20 years by the start of Star Wars 4, that's a long time for people to accept that that's just the way things are.
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Dec 28, 2020 20:40
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Gripweed posted:Did Avatar get any tie-in novels? There was a video game that I think was billed at the time as a canonical prequel and had some of the actors from the movie return. Though I'm guessing by now James Cameron probably doesn't remember it exists. And while not a novel, the art book for the movie is pretty good.
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Dec 28, 2020 20:50
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The Principality of Zeon was also the first and last time that the everyday combatants against the Earth Federation had that excuse. Anyone raising the flag for Zeon after the war were in the same boat as the Imperial Remnant in Mando: die hard fascists who couldn't accept that they had lost
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Dec 28, 2020 20:50
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Arcsquad12 posted:The Principality of Zeon was also the first and last time that the everyday combatants against the Earth Federation had that excuse. Anyone raising the flag for Zeon after the war were in the same boat as the Imperial Remnant in Mando: die hard fascists who couldn't accept that they had lost You really should read Gundam Thunderbolt. A lot of Zeon Remnants couldn't accept that they had lost because they had given everything to the war. They had nothing left. They weren't die-hard fascists, they were broken. And the Earth Sphere was so hosed up from the One Year War it's not like they had many other options. Keep fighting or go try not to starve in a refugee camp And then like three years later the Titans show up and resistance to the Earth Federation becomes good actually. Gripweed fucked around with this message at 21:53 on Dec 28, 2020 |
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Dec 28, 2020 21:50
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Gripweed posted:You really should read Gundam Thunderbolt. A lot of Zeon Remnants couldn't accept that they had lost because they had given everything to the war. They had nothing left. They weren't die-hard fascists, they were broken. And the Earth Sphere was so hosed up from the One Year War it's not like they had many other options. Keep fighting or go try not to starve in a refugee camp The ceasefire with Zeon and the establishment of the Republic was quick and sloppy and pretty much all of the land based Zeon units that couldn't evacuate to space were left to die by the principality. I'm talking the ravenous lunatics like the Delaz fleet or Axis/Neo Zeon that were more than willing to use earth based remnants as cannon fodder for their ideals rather than bring them home. It happened in 0083, it happened in ZZ and it happened in Unicorn until they were pretty much all dead. The thunderbolt remnants aren't much better but at least they have a bigger immediate worry than federation persecution with the South Sea fanatics blowing poo poo up. I like Daryl, don't mistake that, but the remnants are a, pitiable doomed to failure group of wrecks who never learned to let go and in the end they're just another casualty.
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Dec 28, 2020 22:23
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I re-watched Rogue One and A New Hope yesterday, and one of the things that struck me was how much personality the droids have in the Star Wars universe. For all intents and purposes, K2SO and C3PO are real characters with their own motives and are treated like allies and friends. I'm a huge fan of Isaac Asimov's novels and how they touch upon questions of morality and ethics surrounding the creation of robots and androids. Are there any SW novels that deal with droids in particular?
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Dec 29, 2020 20:59
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This is a bit off topic, but I figured people here might be interested. I am running a Star Wars Choose Your Own Adventure game on the forums. Right now people are voting for what Era/Tone the game is going to be. I invite everyone to come read/vote!
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Dec 29, 2020 22:56
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NinjaPete posted:This is a bit off topic, but I figured people here might be interested. I am running a Star Wars Choose Your Own Adventure game on the forums. Right now people are voting for what Era/Tone the game is going to be. I invite everyone to come read/vote! Era: 6,000,000 years BBY
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Dec 29, 2020 23:34
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Xenomrph posted:Tone: Grimdark/buckets of blood Troy Denning is that you?
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Dec 29, 2020 23:36
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I considered making that very joke when I posted. 
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Dec 30, 2020 00:05
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Arcsquad12 posted:Troy Denning is that you? I mean..bugfucking wasn't explicitly ruled out.
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Dec 30, 2020 00:15
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The other day I went to the used book shop to get some Star Wars books. I didn't remember any of the titles from the recommendations in this thread, so I decided to go purely on chance. I picked a few books completely at random. And I selected the first one to read today also completely at random. I left it up to chance, to fate, dare I say it, to The Force? So bright and early on this lovely cold holiday morning I picked up the first book to read in this exciting new Star Wars continuity, the first Star Wars book to read in at least 15 years, the first book of any kind I was going to read in this new year, a weighty hardback tome with the intriguing title of Dooku: Jedi Lost. I'm not one to believe in omens. But,
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Jan 1, 2021 15:52
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Gripweed posted:Dooku: Jedi Lost. Oof. Your first choice was a Script to an audioplay. Maybe give something else a try...
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Jan 1, 2021 18:59
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At least it's a quick read.
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Jan 1, 2021 19:27
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Jedi Lost is really good! But yeah, the play is better than just reading the script
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Jan 1, 2021 19:52
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Chairman Capone posted:For a long time, the debate over whether Vergere was dark or not was one of the big controversies on the Jedi Council Forums and other places where the books were discussed. Probably only second to the Traviss shitshow around the same time. i always assumed she left the jedi because they were way to narrow and than spent too much time with the vong and the "big picture of the force"/force navel gazing and Vong politics and forgot perspective or something. Gripweed posted:At least it's a quick read. how was it? i always liked dooku as a character concept for various reasons.
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Jan 2, 2021 00:13
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Dapper_Swindler posted:how was it? i always liked dooku as a character concept for various reasons. its not that quick, it's over 400 pages. But I'm more than a quarter through it already. I am somewhat at a handicap here because my understanding is that Count Dooku is in Star Wars 2 and 3, and I only saw Star Wars 2 once, on television, and I don't think I saw all of it. And I'm not sure if I've ever seen Star Wars 3, I might've just watched the Plinkett review. And even that was quite a long time ago, so basically I have no idea who this dude is. I did kinda enjoy the detail that apparently a ton of people have left the Jedi Order over the years for all sorts of reasons, but this has never made the Order reconsider any of their very stupid rules.
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Jan 2, 2021 00:32
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Dooku is in like less than five minutes at the very start of Episode III so you're not missing much with him there. Dapper_Swindler posted:i always assumed she left the jedi because they were way to narrow and than spent too much time with the vong and the "big picture of the force"/force navel gazing and Vong politics and forgot perspective or something. It's been years so I forget a lot of this but I remember a big problem with Vergere and her true motivations is that a lot of authors wrote a lot of contradictory stuff about her. Like it was never clear whether she knew about the Potentium before going to Zonama Sekot, or whether she was a Sith apprentice secretly or whether she went with the Vong because she tried and failed to assassinate Palpatine and wanted to GTFO, or whether the Potentium was canonically a secret dark side plot or not or whether Qui-Gon was even a Potentium advocate.... I think it was a mix of a lot of people at Lucasfilm having strong opinions and trying to write them into canon, while also not reading (and/or caring) what other authors interpreted about it.
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Jan 2, 2021 00:56
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Dooku "aced lightsaber class". That's an exact quote, he aced lightsaber class. loving hell the prequels really sucked all the mystery and magic out of the Jedi. Lightsaber class, Jesus Christ. What was Jedi homework like? "My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter" Do you agree or disagree? minimum 5 pages, 12 pt font, Times New Roman, single spaced. Include a cover page and a works cited page.
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Jan 2, 2021 03:02
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Gripweed posted:its not that quick, it's over 400 pages. But I'm more than a quarter through it already. I am somewhat at a handicap here because my understanding is that Count Dooku is in Star Wars 2 and 3, and I only saw Star Wars 2 once, on television, and I don't think I saw all of it. And I'm not sure if I've ever seen Star Wars 3, I might've just watched the Plinkett review. And even that was quite a long time ago, so basically I have no idea who this dude is. i think its more that i liked christopher lee and the old canon books including the weirdly very good episode 3 novel, paints him as upper class sociopath who hides behind vague idealism and upper class decorum but is basically just a space racist with money who thought that palpatine would put him in some giant place of power after he surrendered and would blame the gleep glops and grievous for the crimes. one of the few things that i agreed with Lucas about that he ended up cutting was dooku begging for his life when he got dehanded. which honestly fits the picture they paint of him. Chairman Capone posted:
sounds about right. honestly i feel like it would work better if they wrote he the way i said. some one he basicaly saw that both sides were poo poo so why bother and basicaly is fine working with space mutalators because she cares more about the flowing of the force or some yoda type navel gazing and finding oneself/etc no matter the cost.
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Jan 2, 2021 03:13
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Gripweed posted:Dooku "aced lightsaber class". That's an exact quote, he aced lightsaber class. loving hell the prequels really sucked all the mystery and magic out of the Jedi. Lightsaber class, Jesus Christ. What was Jedi homework like? Yes - the Prequel Era Jedi were missing the point of their own religion - that's.....kinda a thesis statement of the entire era.
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Jan 2, 2021 04:45
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Did Dooku ever get more than a mononym? Or is he just... Dooku? Also, is it common for jedi to learn where they were taken from? Dooku knows about and inherits his family's fortune and status in some way, and Quinlan Vos still had strong connections to Kiffu/Kiffex in the comics. Do other folks who were inducted into the jedi order in mostly traditional ways know about their families? I remember Ahsoka having some interaction with other togruta at one point, but if I remember correctly they were just some randos, not related to her in any way.
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Jan 2, 2021 05:23
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Gripweed posted:Dooku "aced lightsaber class". That's an exact quote, he aced lightsaber class. loving hell the prequels really sucked all the mystery and magic out of the Jedi. Lightsaber class, Jesus Christ. What was Jedi homework like? If anything I'm guessing this was included because it's supposed to get readers hyped to pay for going to real lightsaber class at Galaxy's Edge. Dapper_Swindler posted:i think its more that i liked christopher lee and the old canon books including the weirdly very good episode 3 novel, paints him as upper class sociopath who hides behind vague idealism and upper class decorum but is basically just a space racist with money who thought that palpatine would put him in some giant place of power after he surrendered and would blame the gleep glops and grievous for the crimes. one of the few things that i agreed with Lucas about that he ended up cutting was dooku begging for his life when he got dehanded. which honestly fits the picture they paint of him. "Truly, treachery is the way of the Sith" was a great final thought for Dooku to have in the ROTS novel. Baron Fuzzlewhack posted:Did Dooku ever get more than a mononym? Or is he just... Dooku? It's one of those things where we know he has a first name but we don't know what it is. Like Palpatine pre-2014.
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Jan 2, 2021 06:15
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Maybe it's also Sheev
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Jan 2, 2021 06:27
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Baron Fuzzlewhack posted:Did Dooku ever get more than a mononym? Or is he just... Dooku? Depends on the Jedi. Ki Adi Mundi got special permission to have a harem because Cereans had extremely low birth rates and they kept track of every member of the species. Ki Adi Mundi hosed. As for the Ahsoka thing you mentioned, it was during the episodes with the Zygerrian slavers where they put ahsoka in a slave Leia outfit and she kept talking about how she wanted to save all the Torgruta slaves because they were her people like it was a Star Trek "planet of hats" situation. I've never liked ascribing a single trait to an entire species and then treating them as a unanimous cultural identity. It just feels weird to see Ahsoka act like she has a personal connection with them because they're the same species, rather than out if a general sense of compassion. It's not like Ahsoka ever shared a kinship with Shaak-Ti. I don't think they even speak to each other once on TCW. Not that Ahsoka had many relationships with other characters than Obi Wan Anakin and Rex to begin with, mind you. It's part of why I like Mandalorians and how different they are depending on who is writing them. It was a real treat seeing the Mando TV show embrace the confusion over who is truly Mando by showing multiple points of view from Din, Bo Katan and Fett. Specifically calling it a creed instead of a race or species contained to one planet put a big grin on my face during the season 1 finale. They feel more like an actual culture, with multiple opinions and splinter groups and a changing role over time as the galaxy moves on. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 10:04 on Jan 2, 2021 |
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Jan 2, 2021 09:56
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jivjov posted:Yes - the Prequel Era Jedi were missing the point of their own religion - that's.....kinda a thesis statement of the entire era. Have you considered that it might just be bad writing though?
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Jan 2, 2021 10:41
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Kemper Boyd posted:Have you considered that it might just be bad writing though? I think you'll find that the prequel era Jedi have completely lost the plot when it comes to the Force and it's badly written!
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Jan 2, 2021 11:40
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Rochallor posted:I think you'll find that the prequel era Jedi have completely lost the plot when it comes to the Force and it's badly written! Yeah I mean we both hear that they were out of touch and otoh, they were completely right to go "oh hell no we shouldn't train the lad" when it comes to Anakin in Ep 1.
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Jan 2, 2021 11:45
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Rochallor posted:I think you'll find that the prequel era Jedi have completely lost the plot when it comes to the Force and it's badly written! I've never been sure how much of that is Lucas' intent for the prequels and how much is other authors taking a childish black-and-white morality play and giving it some depth, and Lucas grabbing onto it like it was his idea all along.
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Jan 2, 2021 17:18
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Baron Fuzzlewhack posted:Did Dooku ever get more than a mononym? Or is he just... Dooku? It’s always dooku. Honestly it’s one of the few that works with no mononym. Dudes a inbred lord or someshit. It’s like those British lords where they all go by familly/house name.
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Jan 2, 2021 17:26
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Always bet on Dooku. 
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Jan 2, 2021 18:22
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Lemniscate Blue posted:I've never been sure how much of that is Lucas' intent for the prequels and how much is other authors taking a childish black-and-white morality play and giving it some depth, and Lucas grabbing onto it like it was his idea all along. Lucas has repeatedly stated that the core arc of the galactic-scale plot of the prequels is how a democracy surrenders to fascism -- thr moral and spiritual guardians of that democracy losing their way and becoming less righteous and more self-righteous absolutely fits that story.
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Jan 2, 2021 20:57
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