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ulmont
Sep 15, 2010

IF I EVER MISS VOTING IN AN ELECTION (EVEN AMERICAN IDOL) ,OR HAVE UNPAID PARKING TICKETS, PLEASE TAKE AWAY MY FRANCHISE



Hell yeah. I'm hoping for more insanity like the Gnostic Gospel of Thomas.

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White Coke
May 29, 2015


Worthleast posted:

There are books and books written on this topic. The short answer is that meditation is preparation for contemplation.

Can you recommend any books to get started, or is it the sort of thing where you need someone to personally instruct you? I also read that some people don't like contemplation, but I don't understand why meditation is good, but moving into contemplation would be bad.

ulmont posted:

Hell yeah. I'm hoping for more insanity like the Gnostic Gospel of Thomas.

Is that the one where Jesus says he's going to turn Mary Magdalene into a man since women can't be saved?

Worthleast
Nov 25, 2012

Possibly the only speedboat jumps I've planned



White Coke posted:

Can you recommend any books to get started, or is it the sort of thing where you need someone to personally instruct you?

What helped me may not help you, since each soul is different. But I really enjoyed The Prayer of Love and Silence.

Lutha Mahtin
Oct 10, 2010

Your brokebrain sin is absolved...go and shitpost no more!


White Coke posted:

Is that the one where Jesus says he's going to turn Mary Magdalene into a man since women can't be saved?

i like the gospel where young jesus curses a kid to death for bumping into him. then when the kid's parents come to joseph and mary to complain about it, jesus strikes them blind

BIG FLUFFY DOG
Feb 16, 2011

On the internet, nobody knows you're a dog.




Lutha Mahtin posted:

i like the gospel where young jesus curses a kid to death for bumping into him. then when the kid's parents come to joseph and mary to complain about it, jesus strikes them blind

as someone who works in customer service i relate deeply to this version of jesus

Thirteen Orphans
Dec 2, 2012

The principles expressed in the martial arts make up the backbone of my philosophy.

My favorite apocryphal story of Jesus is when He and His friend are playing on the roof and His friend accidentally falls off the roof and dies. Everybody starts to accuse Jesus of pushing His friend so Jesus raises him from the dead so that the friend could tell everyone it was an accident.

sb hermit
Dec 13, 2016




BIG FLUFFY DOG posted:

as someone who works in customer service i relate deeply to this version of jesus

BIG FLUFFY DOG
Feb 16, 2011

On the internet, nobody knows you're a dog.




young me: i can't believe god would send a bear to devour some kids because they mocked Elisha for being bald. How awful!

old me: next time send a tiger

shame on an IGA
Apr 8, 2005



Thirteen Orphans posted:

My favorite apocryphal story of Jesus is when He and His friend are playing on the roof and His friend accidentally falls off the roof and dies. Everybody starts to accuse Jesus of pushing His friend so Jesus raises him from the dead so that the friend could tell everyone it was an accident.

Eh, Phineas was kind of an rear end anyway

CrypticFox
Dec 19, 2019

"You are one of the most incompetent of tablet writers"

The apocryphal gospels and acts of the apostles are great. My favorite story from them comes from the acts of John. John is staying in a ratty inn, and his bed is full of bed bugs. He commands the bed bugs to leave his bed, and they obey. When he wakes up the next day, there is a line of bed bugs waiting outside the door to his room for John's permission to return to the bed, which he gives them.

ulmont
Sep 15, 2010

IF I EVER MISS VOTING IN AN ELECTION (EVEN AMERICAN IDOL) ,OR HAVE UNPAID PARKING TICKETS, PLEASE TAKE AWAY MY FRANCHISE


White Coke posted:

Is that the one where Jesus says he's going to turn Mary Magdalene into a man since women can't be saved?

That's the one (Gnostic Gospel of Thomas). I was, though, confusing it with the Infancy Gospel of Thomas, which is this one and the one I was trying to refer to:

Lutha Mahtin posted:

i like the gospel where young jesus curses a kid to death for bumping into him. then when the kid's parents come to joseph and mary to complain about it, jesus strikes them blind

Thirteen Orphans
Dec 2, 2012

The principles expressed in the martial arts make up the backbone of my philosophy.

I’m reading an article (albeit one trying to sell me something) about qi gong and the author references sexual transformation especially in the practice of seminal retention. He says, “many religions have recognized the strength of sexual transformation, including: Buddhism, Taoism, and Orthodox Christianity. What in the world is he referencing?

Keromaru5
Dec 28, 2012
For what it's worth, this is more trashy shoujo manga than trashy nerdbait hentai.


Ya got me. Like, the Church does exalt chastity and celibacy, but the only references to semen I'm familiar with are a few canon laws on wet dreams, and those sections of St. John Cassian's Institutes and Conferences where the monks talk about wet dreams. IIRC, the canon is basically "Not the biggest deal in the world," and I'm not sure what the monks had to say, because the most easily accessible public-domain translation left those parts out, I guess so as not to scandalize late 19th-early 20th-c. sensibilities. But it might be safe to assume that their take was also "Not the biggest deal in the world." I think St. Athanasius even compared it to a sneeze.

ThePopeOfFun
Feb 15, 2010


The only thing I could see is conflating Chastity's specific mechanics with Chastity the virture, which yes, includes a degree of seminal retention. Otherwise, it completely misses the whole notion of desire and community participants' responsibility towards the community.

BIG FLUFFY DOG
Feb 16, 2011

On the internet, nobody knows you're a dog.




The only argument I could make is that he means orthodox as in mainstream christianity rather than orthodox as in Eastern christianity and then you could get to how evangelicals talk about how marriage mirrors the relationship between Christ (man) and the church (woman) which does strongly imply that, theologically speaking, Jesus bones the church down

BattyKiara
Mar 17, 2009


Speaking of weird, not quite orthodox gospels, have a hymn in which Mary spanks child Jesus after he makes his bratty friends drown:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fA7gp1OUXvE

Pershing
Feb 21, 2010

John "Black Jack" Pershing
Hard Fucking Core



I like Elizabeth Bruenig on Twitter...how accurate is her description of the Atlanta shooter's faith in this thread?

https://twitter.com/ebruenig/status/1373748836972265473?s=19

Captain von Trapp
Jan 22, 2006

I don't like it, and I'm sorry I ever had anything to do with it.

Her thread sounds about right: the deep end of Calvinism asserts a lot of things that might charitably be described as counterintuitive. That said, it's also true that Calvinism's fatalism doesn't in my experience lend itself to going out and fixing the world, whether by good works or going out and murdering sinners. It's very passive - God does the electing, not them.

This sentence in particular in the article she links misunderstands things in the typical "gorillas in the mist" vein of reporting on Christians, and it's probably part of what she noticed:

quote:

Experts this week have said the mentality Bayless described is common within evangelical “purity culture,” which teaches that sexual desire outside of marriage is sinful and those who fail to control their lust are sometimes considered “sex addicts.”

Ah, "experts". I have never heard anyone, from the mainstream to the most insular Duggar-esque purity ball types, call sexual desire outside of marriage sinful as such. Sexual activity, sure. Overly dwelling on sexual thoughts, ok. Being a person who wants to bone? That's not sin. That's how you get married in the first place. I have also never heard "sex addiction" used unironically in the purity culture context. That would be viewed as a implausible or even contemptible attempt to shift blame away from a person who is guilty by their own free choice. Whether this is healthy or not I leave to the reader, but "sex addict" is definitely a concept that evangelicals would explicitly reject.

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010





I heard a debate last night about if he was actually racist and this was all just a hate crime.

Looks like everybody is joining in to use him as a rep for whatever it is they hate.

Lutha Mahtin
Oct 10, 2010

Your brokebrain sin is absolved...go and shitpost no more!


https://twitter.com/paddyraffcomedy/status/1370327066063863808

ThePopeOfFun
Feb 15, 2010


Dude specifically targeted Asian people in a space that is coded Asian. His "addiction" can be wrapped up in that, too. Fetishizing goes hand in hand with racism. It's all wrapped up in the same bucket of disease.

FWIW consuming lust that leads to unwanted sexual behavior (buying sex, pornography, seeing multiple partners without "wanting" to) has been statistically linked to deep seated anger. See Jay Stringer's book, "Unwanted" for his study on that.

Re: Purity Culture, I could see purity culture playing a roll, but it's a little more ethereal and subconscious. Sex is icky and stay ignorant until you're married, including ignorance of your own body. So women who grew up in it are more statistically prone to vaginismus and fewer orgasms/less pleasure. And most of the real bad outcomes happen to women in it, but it also teaches both sexes that the female body is bad.

All that to say it's damaging, but not in the same way as other ideologies. This crime is better explained with whiteness, self-loathing, hate, and whatever drives all these white teen/twenty something men to mass shootings.


EDIT: Racism as an explanation also demands community culpability and reform, which is also the reason everyone wants to avoid it. Religion can be written off as not true, addicts are crazy, but racism means we've all got a problem on our hands in the US.

ThePopeOfFun fucked around with this message at 16:06 on Mar 22, 2021

Tias
May 25, 2008

Deyr fe,
deyja fraendr,
deyr sjalfr it sama,
ek veit einn,
at aldrei deyr:
domr um daudan hvern.


Uuuh guys he specifically thought it was okay to murder asian american women and discard their bodies like garbage on the ground. The fact that US politicians and media talk about his tragic addiction or bad day or whatever is because they hate asians as well, not because he doesn't.

ThePopeOfFun
Feb 15, 2010


Tias posted:

Uuuh guys he specifically thought it was okay to murder asian american women and discard their bodies like garbage on the ground. The fact that US politicians and media talk about his tragic addiction or bad day or whatever is because they hate asians as well, not because he doesn't.

Yeah this.

Spacegrass
May 1, 2013



I read the Koran, even though I'm Christian. In a lot of that book they use the word "We", often. Like: "We created man, from sperm". Sometimes I think it may be Aliens that wrote some of this book. Thoughts all?

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012



Spacegrass posted:

I read the Koran, even though I'm Christian. In a lot of that book they use the word "We", often. Like: "We created man, from sperm". Sometimes I think it may be Aliens that wrote some of this book. Thoughts all?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_we

HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Clear off, fatso, this is a respectable establishment




Spacegrass posted:

I read the Koran, even though I'm Christian. In a lot of that book they use the word "We", often. Like: "We created man, from sperm". Sometimes I think it may be Aliens that wrote some of this book. Thoughts all?

God sometimes refers to himself in the plural in the Bible, too. 'Let us make Man in our image' and such. Probably a leftover from a more polytheistic tradition in that case, from my very basic understanding. I do not think it was aliens. I think suggesting the Koran, or the Bible or any other ancient text was written by aliens is insulting to ancient people.

Captain von Trapp
Jan 22, 2006

I don't like it, and I'm sorry I ever had anything to do with it.

Spacegrass posted:

I read the Koran, even though I'm Christian. In a lot of that book they use the word "We", often. Like: "We created man, from sperm". Sometimes I think it may be Aliens that wrote some of this book. Thoughts all?

The bible does that too on occasion ("Let us create man in our image..."). There's a number of schools of thought, basically all linguistic in nature, depending on one's beliefs:

1. The linguistic "royal we".
2. A linguistic anticipation of the Trinity.
3. A linguistic holdover from an earlier polytheism.

e: at least I was the first with #2!

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012



I know very little about Islam, but I do know they constantly bullied Christians about it back in the day, likening it to Polytheism.

HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Clear off, fatso, this is a respectable establishment




Gaius Marius posted:

I know very little about Islam, but I do know they constantly bullied Christians about it back in the day, likening it to Polytheism.

I mean I've had Christian fundamentalists (and weirdly one Jehovah's Witness who was a real dick) tell me that Catholicism is polytheistic.

Man that one JW was a total rear end in a top hat. The ones who usually come around here are very nice but he was very much a Reddit Atheist in tone, just without the atheism part. Scoffed at my ideas and 'well actually'ed me about stuff.

Captain von Trapp
Jan 22, 2006

I don't like it, and I'm sorry I ever had anything to do with it.

I haven't seen this case made much, but you could (and I probably would) argue that in Christianity angels and demons fit many reasonable definitions of lowercase-g gods.

Now, the argument that the trinity is polytheistic and/or that Mary is a god are clearly heretical. I'll admit that the whole Mary business in Catholicism creeps me out as a cradle Baptist, but I'll happily admit it's not worship.

Spacegrass
May 1, 2013



Could also mean there is more than one God. Sub-Gods or whatever. Anyway, the confusion is overwhelming to me.

HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Clear off, fatso, this is a respectable establishment




Spacegrass posted:

Could also mean there is more than one God. Sub-Gods or whatever. Anyway, the confusion is overwhelming to me.

What confusion? Are you okay? Seriously, I'm not being Internet Sarcastic, are you all right?

BIG FLUFFY DOG
Feb 16, 2011

On the internet, nobody knows you're a dog.




Spacegrass posted:

Could also mean there is more than one God. Sub-Gods or whatever. Anyway, the confusion is overwhelming to me.

Hmm sounds like you might want to consider Mahayana buddhism which is simultaneously atheistic, polytheistic, and monotheistic.

Bar Ran Dun
Jan 21, 2006

When there were five in the bed and we all rolled over I said nothing, because I would not fall off.

Captain von Trapp posted:

I haven't seen this case made much, but you could (and I probably would) argue that in Christianity angels and demons fit many reasonable definitions of lowercase-g gods.

“History of Christian Thought” posted:


But if God has become abstract, then it is not sufficient to hypostasize some of His qualities, such as heaven, height, glory: more is needed. Mediating beings appear between God and man who become more and more important for practical piety. There are three main concepts of this mediating character. First, the angels: they are deteriorized gods and godesses from the surrounding paganism. In the period of the prophets, when the fight with polytheism still was going on, they couldn't play any role. But when the danger of polytheism was completely overcome as it was in later Judaism then the angels could reappear without too great danger of a relapse into polytheism. But even so, the New Testament is aware of this danger and again and again warns against the cult of the angels. These are the first figures which mediate.

Spacegrass
May 1, 2013



HopperUK posted:

What confusion? Are you okay? Seriously, I'm not being Internet Sarcastic, are you all right?

I'm fine. I've just been reading the Bible and Nietzsche; one after another; sometimes, sometimes: not a great mix.

Keromaru5
Dec 28, 2012
For what it's worth, this is more trashy shoujo manga than trashy nerdbait hentai.


I guess the main question I have is: what are these instances of "We" like in Arabic?

BattyKiara
Mar 17, 2009


I think it is more of a linguistic problem. God uses "We" to convey that God is more than a mere human. I simply don't think God fits into neat little boxes like singular or plural, male or female, etc. Human language can never fully comprehend the entirety of God, so we end up with linguistic quirks like God speaking in We-form.

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA


I bring a question from the stupid/small questions thread that I'm still pondering over: If you’re in a religion that forbids meat, do they allow practitioners to have the fake meats? Like, Incogmeato brands.

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

To witness titanic events is always dangerous, usually painful, and often fatal.





StrixNebulosa posted:

I bring a question from the stupid/small questions thread that I'm still pondering over: If you’re in a religion that forbids meat, do they allow practitioners to have the fake meats? Like, Incogmeato brands.
In Buddhism, definitely, although monks might still have restrictions on ornate or heavily-flavored ones. Temple/vegetarian cuisine were major drivers in developing seitan and tofu preparations to simulate various forms of meat.

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Lutha Mahtin
Oct 10, 2010

Your brokebrain sin is absolved...go and shitpost no more!


Captain von Trapp posted:

Now, the argument that the trinity is polytheistic and/or that Mary is a god are clearly heretical. I'll admit that the whole Mary business in Catholicism creeps me out as a cradle Baptist, but I'll happily admit it's not worship.

a lot of non-christians are genuinely puzzled by the trinity, which i think is understandable. if it's not something that you have spent some time contemplating, it really is a pretty wild concept to wrap your head around

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