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Dongsturm
Feb 17, 2012
I am currently job hunting and I am trying to figure out some questions to ask to try and figure out if a new job is going to be one of the hellscapes from this thread.

Like asking "how long has your longest employee been there" to figure out if everyone quits within a year, or "who is your critical employee and how do you cope when they are on holiday?"

I have had some luck asking "what was your longest day last week?", people are surprisingly honest in interviews

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Dongsturm
Feb 17, 2012

cynic posted:

Yeah, that might not work, my current company has people who have been there 40 years but they only did that by switching off the parts of their brain that feel joy. These people are to be celebrated and idolised for they have abandoned all that makes them 'them' in return for a pathetic paycheque and a weekend break in Europe (flights and accommodation only). People have died here before receiving their 2 nights in a 3* hotel in Barcelona! People with a soul quit at around 6 months - 4 years depending on their stamina and how long they need on their resume.

Yeah, you're right. And I'm probably not going to get an honest answer to "how many hours do you spend crying in the bathroom? "

Dongsturm
Feb 17, 2012

Son of Rodney posted:

Deffo a thing in Germany but might be on its way out. Stuff like birth date, family status (single/married) and hobbies are also common. I was quite surprised to learn that many jobs outside of Germany don't expect stuff like pictures, age, and all that. I'd love for that to become standard here, I even heard about some places not wanting gender, heritage or even names and it's sound so much better.

From a while back, but this really explains what is happening in my job search. I am currently job-hunting in Germany, and I'm getting zero callbacks from German firms. Just a straight rejection, which is surprising for me because I'm getting instant callbacks from international firms. On paper I should look good to a local firm. I guess it is because I'm not providing enough personal information.

I'm not changing it though. Germany is incredibly invasive of privacy. I have a folder on my desktop with all my documents for applying for a house in Germany, and it's called "Identity Theft Kit", because if I had that much information on someone else, I could clean out their bank account and open a few credit cards in their name.

Eeeek.

Dongsturm
Feb 17, 2012
My last company was an endless source of dysfunctional thinking. It was a ride hailing company(not that one) that kept having outages because the programmers kept deploying broken code. To fix this, the seniors decided to only allow deployments in the morning, cutting our deployment opportunities by half. Our outage rate was also cut in half. This was hailed as a great success, and made permanent.

People like me who suggested that adding a testing stage between development and deployment were told that good engineers didn't need to test their code. Eventually everyone who complained was "incentivised to leave"

Wish me luck, I'm starting my new life as a digital nomad in two weeks. I have to stay in a nearby timezone, so Thailand is not possible, but I prefer sex with adults anyway.

Dongsturm
Feb 17, 2012

nexus6 posted:

I'm sorry, did you work here in the 70s?

Some things are timeless.

Dongsturm
Feb 17, 2012

Suspicious Lump posted:

I have a question guys:
How the gently caress do I deal with people who have checked out? You know the kind, the ones who have a job for life (I work in what is essentially government), they're cruising along not wanting to rock the boat, change the status quo or do anything beyond the bare minimum?



they are probably annoying other people as well. usually, people network (the social kind) around them. Find the network, get the job done.

Also, never explain details to management, just say it's almost finished. And never show off a half-working project, it's all or nothing.



A Festivus Miracle posted:

You're complaining about people not giving a gently caress about you giving a gently caress. The solution is obvious: stop giving a gently caress

But mainly this. you won't be blamed when the project fails, so don't try hard. Take advantage of the training, then leave for a real job.

Dongsturm
Feb 17, 2012

TacticalHoodie posted:

It's the same as Human Resources. We are the bane of everyone's existence because we have to enforce corporate's mandates and policy if we like to or not. My role, Payroll Accounting. is a pure support role but I have to people to do things like go on vacation or lose x amount of hours at the end of the fiscal year or punch in and out during their shift to be paid properly. We are told to change the workplace culture when the workplace culture actively refuses to follow along with the rest of the company.

This is why everyone hates HR!

I thought it was because HR is staffed by demons whose mission is to leach hope and joy from workers until their lives become a grey featureless nightmare that well prepares them for the eternity of hellish torment that surely follows.

But I guess your explanation is also possible.

Dongsturm
Feb 17, 2012

mayday mayday posted:

My work has the option to print single-sided disabled on the printers themselves, so you can freely select single-sided and it appears to work, but when you go to pick up the 800 individually-addressed letters they’re all double-sided. We have high enough turnover that this happens to someone every few weeks, or more frequently, if someone forgets. Then you shred those 400 pages and send the print job to one specific printer in another building (three-years-plus old timers like me can tell you which one) that can print single sided. This is to save paper.

I work at a museum, so our dumb poo poo is sometimes fun dumb poo poo, like:

-Coworker didn’t want to wait for the freight elevator when transporting a mounted bear, so he wedged it into the passenger elevator. It tipped over and slightly mauled him (like four stitches)

-One of the curators realized that the weird sound he’d been hearing for a while was a historic geiger counter in the collections going off and we had to evacuate

-We don’t have nearly enough storage space so access corridors are frequently filled with taxidermy (and other large relatively low-value exhibits: player pianos, etc). Debate continues over whether the moose outside the first aid room constitutes a serious safety risk

-Last year one of the techs fell through the ceiling into a gallery during open hours, stood up, and walked out the main exit. Never came back as far as I know

Sometimes our dumb poo poo is just horrible c-suite people being sexist racist scumbags, terrible policies that make people less productive and managers abusing their employees like anywhere else though! Our ex-CEO once flipped out at my coworker (a fairly regular occurrence), shouted “I’ve taught on twelve continents” and then stormed out. Someone made up a little “Professor of Geography, University of Atlantis” sign but no one was brave enough to do anything with it

I love this and I want to believe that there is a vengeful spirit of a bear stalking your museum while everyone is distracted by office politics and arguing about the moose. it sounds like a Neil Gaiman book

Dongsturm
Feb 17, 2012
With Robin Williams playing the unseen spirit of the bear.

.

Too soon?

Dongsturm
Feb 17, 2012

Spatule posted:

Re: commuting

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_hypnosis#:~:text=Highway%20hypnosis%2C%20also%20known%20as,of%20having%20consciously%20done%20so.

For many people it's meditation, an actual dissociative state, and it's really nice.

I don't know if that is what is happening though. Don't most people commute in city traffic, and it's more like crawling bumper to bumper for 45 minutes? I've never had a meditative experience in that traffic, it has always left me twitchy and agitated.

Dongsturm
Feb 17, 2012

Steakandchips posted:

More companies need to realise this extremely basic stuff.

They won't. Every IT company I have ever worked for suffers severe libertarian brain poisoning. Or rather, they do recognise this basic stuff, and then work as hard as possible to avoid it.

I was once literally laughed out of a meeting for suggesting the company offer paid internships to students to solve the problem of "not being able to find enough skilled programmers"

This was a telco, so the other engineering departments were definitely doing internships.

And the people laughing were, of course, middle aged middle class white men who had succeeded in their careers through their natural talent and hard work.

Dongsturm
Feb 17, 2012

Lascivious Sloth posted:

are bonuses an American thing? sounds like a really tricky cheap way to screw over your workforce by having a "bonus" that you may or may not get but was probably taken from your original salary package.

Well, no-bonuses is a union thing. Bonuses are a pretty obvious way to get workers fighting each other instead of supporting each other.

The Mises institute's opinion on it is worth reading for the comical amount of mustache twirling https://mises.org/library/why-unions-oppose-pay-incentives

Dongsturm fucked around with this message at 17:09 on Aug 25, 2021

Dongsturm
Feb 17, 2012

Scientastic posted:

Are these the cubes that bosses forbid you from decorating with any personal items, to make sure they stamp out any expression of personality so you become a corporate zombie?

Yes, but then they discovered that they could remove the cubes and add a "hotdesk" policy, so now if we leave anything on our desk it gets tossed overnight. It's even more dehumanising than cubes.

It's like they have some fantasy about getting rid of all the workers so there is only clean, white, sterile office rooms forever. Only they can't get rid of the workers, so they settle for removing any trace of humanity. Close enough, I guess.

Dongsturm
Feb 17, 2012

Barudak posted:

IT responds to you when you email them???

Last job I started at, the companies internal trouble ticket system didn't actually work at all. Nobody could file a ticket at all. The contact page directed people to file a ticket to tell them that the ticketing system wasn't working. I contacted the head of support to let them know and he told me there wasn't a problem because nobody had complained. I finally got sick of my computer not working, so I bitched to my branch manager and the system finally started working. The IT manager contacted me to personally whine at me for getting him in trouble and I'm still torn between feeling smug about ruining this jerk's day, and guilty for ratting a co-worker out to upper management.

Dongsturm
Feb 17, 2012

SkyeAuroline posted:

I've been given a project with an estimated timeline of "well, we expected this to take years, so anything faster is good". Taxing my Excel skills to their limit to figure this poo poo out. But boy is this a nicer experience than just mindlessly plugging data into the system.

Good poo poo your work does: respect you enough to give you real work
Dumb poo poo your work does: not give a deadline

Sounds like a good time to start that novel you were always planning to write.

Dongsturm
Feb 17, 2012

You could fit a paragraph in each cell, and I think Excel already does footnotes. That's all you need for a book.

Dongsturm
Feb 17, 2012

wilderthanmild posted:

I don't think I've seen a job in software making $12/hr ever. While lots of job markets are hosed up right now, software development is a particularly good job market to be in.

What stack are you working with/have experience with that this is what you're left with? Are you looking in some very middle of nowhere market? Have you explored remote jobs?

If you're not in the trendy part, with some well known brand on your resume, it's brutal. Getting a job with a well known multinational nearly doubled my salary and more importantly, switched my job applications from "send out 20 applications, get one reply" to "check email to see who is inviting me to interviews this week"

And I'm not even talking about a FAANG company. Those guys get a new contact every day. At least, the ones I know do.

IT is only slightly less difficult to break into than the music industry. If you're on the right side of the line, jobs are trivial. On the other side, you get doors slammed in your face non-stop.

Dongsturm
Feb 17, 2012

CarForumPoster posted:

Lmao at the people saying IT and software dev is a hard to break into industry with bad pay. Nah the problem is you. Get over to the resume threads in BFC or YOSPOS and we’ll get you on your way. Lots of hiring managers in there.



This is the complain-about-work thread, not the entitled techbro thread.

Dongsturm
Feb 17, 2012

Barudak posted:

On one hand these all feel stdh, on the other I've absolutely had these people as bosses and the change in economic conditions does make it possible.

The writing is too perfect for a 3am chat, but I've quit in similar circumstances. I ghosted the job, and heard from other people there that the lovely manager had to cover my shift that night because he was already short staffed (nobody else would come in to help him either).

There was a time when it was possible to do this and get away with it, I'm glad to see that it is happening again.

Dongsturm
Feb 17, 2012

StrangersInTheNight posted:

my boss constantly forgets conversations we've just had and I frequently have to remind her where we left things, and it's just because she's overworked so I try to have grace, but part of it is overworking herself bc she focuses on tiny poo poo and misses the big stuff and so it's a lot of grabbing her head and forcing it up from whatever small task she's dallying in to see the oncoming freight train and then she looks down again to continue her task and immediately forgets the freight train is coming

you cannot stop the reply-all stop-replying vortex, it is eternal, if you find yourself in one double check if you've accidentally died and fallen into limbo

I was at a multinational company of around 100,000 when someone sent an email wishing everyone the traditional "Merry Christmas" to the company wide email address. The traditional argument over Eurocentrism and Christian oppression only ended when a VP threatened to fire the next person who replied.

The next time it happened, the email server crashed and had to be restored from backup, because someone had attached a picture of a Christmas card that got copied 100,000 times every time someone pressed reply-all.

Dongsturm
Feb 17, 2012

Spatule posted:

Honestly, this is an IT problem. These things should be stopped automatically, it's not new, it's not hard to implement.

Yes, but if IT were competent, I wouldn't have all these happy memories.

Dongsturm
Feb 17, 2012

irpoweroutlet posted:

Am I reading this right? There is an entire team of people at your job, whose sole responsibility is a podcast and a newsletter? I’m familiar with ‘bullshit jobs’ but that’s another level entirely.


This team is not the worst example of useless people, even in this thread. At least this team is not actively ruining the work of other teams. As far as useless people go, this is the best situation. They do their thing, don't bother anyone else, and don't get in the way of the people doing real work.

If you think this is bad, wait until you meet a six sigma consultant.

A business isn't a venture to make a product in the most efficient and effective way possible, it's a vanity project to allow the rich and well connected to surround themselves with fawning toadies and stroke their egos with pointless vanity projects.

From the point of view of the CEO, this team is the only one doing any meaningful work, and the rest of the company is just wasting time caring about stupid poo poo like making things and shipping them.

Dongsturm
Feb 17, 2012

Hyrax Attack! posted:

Oh yeah, I’m not an exemplar of Protestant work ethic but I want what I do to have some meaning and it is rewarding to help other depts or fix problems, and to learn new software and tools. I don’t want to be on a podcast team that to borrow a description someone posted long ago, is daycare for adults.

Yeah those folk are nice but the situation feels like working a register in a supermarket the week before thanksgiving and half the other tills are closed with lines back to the freezer section, and management shakes their head about how we couldn’t possibly budget for more cashiers and anyway nobody really likes doing that work, as a dozen coworkers sit in the office watching YouTube for a week to find inspiration for a morale building video.

Slack off more. it's like giving yourself a raise, but you can authorise it by yourself.

ed: Sounds like you're in IT, so you can teach yourself whatever you want on company time, so long as you're typing into a computer it looks like work.

Dongsturm fucked around with this message at 17:36 on Oct 24, 2021

Dongsturm
Feb 17, 2012

Outrail posted:

Yeah it's more of the second. The thing is we have weekly status updates/meetings to talk about what's going on. If they don't have time to do things that's one thing, we can reshuffle or redelegate but instead of saying 'this is on my to-do list but I don't have time to do it' it never gets brought up until the deadline has passed. So I'm going to be forced to micromanage people like children but I honestly don't have time for that.

We have a lot of things to keep track of and lots of moving parts to multiple projects and it's almost impossible for one person to keep track of everything on their own. This is things like 'When it starts raining we need to put the equipment out for data collection' or 'Can you please send x to y' and they just forget about it until it's too late. It's partly a communication problem.

You're incredibly vague about what the actual task is, but if the entire team is repeatedly not doing it, that's a tacit message that they consider it to be your job, not theirs.

Micromanaging and calling people out in team meetings is probably going to result in a story for this thread, so please update us when it happens.

Dongsturm
Feb 17, 2012
There's been this management fad going around where managers tell me that they're going to get me how to manage myself so that they don't have to. They always present it like it's some really clever new idea and think that I can't see that it's management trying to duck out of doing any actual work.

They can't seem to grasp the concept that if I wanted to manage anything at all, I would have applied for a managment position.

Dongsturm
Feb 17, 2012

Agoat posted:

My work is having a staffing shortage (tons of auto claims came in), and they're also trying to fire a ton of people.

Like, what

bee posted:

Oooo one of my ex employers did this. They were short about thirty part time & casual staff, but were firing existing staff members at a rate of about one per fortnight. To make it more fun, they refused to allow new or existing staff any flexibility when it came to what shifts/hours they could work, it was basically "you will work these shifts, you cannot swap them, or you can quit". So staff were jumping ship for other organisations that had flexible shifts.

I was in charge of recruiting, but then I got fired because I failed to magic thirty new employees out of my arse during a nationwide labour shortage. Good times!

I'm getting the feeling a lot of places are doing this because they think that nobody can start a competing business, and they might be right.

Everyone is in debt, and people in debt can't put together the 30-50k to start a (simple) new business. There's basically zero chance of all the fired employees getting together and going "hey, we're basically an entire company, all we need is a business name and some startup funds"

Which is a shame, because it needs to happen a lot more than it does.

Dongsturm
Feb 17, 2012

tractor man posted:

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-59263300

Portugal making it illegal to do stuff all my bosses wouldnt have batted an eye at doing.

Already illegal in Germany, and a few others, I think.

Also strong protections on working hours. My boss saw me leaving the building at 7pm after my German class and ran up to me in a panic demanding to know why I was working so late. He was half worried about the fine, and half about there being a problem that he wasn't aware of.

Unions. They're annoying sometimes but when enough people join them, they really do some good things.

Dongsturm
Feb 17, 2012

Jack-Off Lantern posted:

Doesn't help, they still do it, especially in minimum wage jobs..

One of my bosses called me at 6am on my day off just this week.

Texts too, obviously. They called after I didn't respond

Yeah, the big flaw in German employment law is that it has to be enforced through civil court, at your expense. If you don't have the insurance, the worker's council or union can help. If you don't have a worker's council or union, well... you know what you need to do.

I have been really disappointed by some of the things I learned about Germany since I moved here.

Dongsturm
Feb 17, 2012

Jack-Off Lantern posted:

I do have Rechtsschutz. But yeah, usually your employer will find a way to get rid of you, even if you win. You might get a severance out of it, but at that point you should have lined up a job somewhere else.

It can also take forever for it to go through court, until then you have to work at a job you're sueing or be "sick"

Yeah, it sucks. I actually got fired for creating a worker's council at a previous company. So did the other guys. They had insurance, tried to fight it and gave up after 6 months of getting nowhere.

They got to spend that time surfing the internet and being paid for it, because the company definitely wasn't going to let them near their old jobs during a court case.

The amount of privilege for business owners here is bizarre, and then there's the landlords...

Dongsturm
Feb 17, 2012

Tarkus posted:

What is the job market like there? I'd imagine it's pretty tough to find a new job or has job seeking become easier over the years there? I know that back in the 90's it was somewhat taboo to leave a job, especially a career oriented one.

I've been following this with interest, and it looks like it is getting better. the big companies still have 200 graduates applying for every position, but the second tier companies are having problems. Engineers are starting to job hop, and media are starting to publish articles about how the youth are destroying society by not working 14 hours per day and some of them are even taking their holidays instead of letting them expire at the end of the year!

it's still not the massive upset of power that other countries are having, but it is getting better for workers.

Dongsturm
Feb 17, 2012

Batterypowered7 posted:

I thought the Japanese just put people they wanted to fire in a room in the back doing nothing in the hopes that they'll just leave on their own.

Traditionally they get put right next to a window to encourage them to think about leaving the office for something better.

https://nihongomaster.com/japanese/dictionary/word/67847/madogiwazoku

Dongsturm
Feb 17, 2012

Barudak posted:

Yeah Im in Tokyo-rear end Tokyo, Ginza/toronomon hills area.

We could do virtual golf? gently caress, finding a neutral fun activity sucks

After (more than) a few drinks, neutral things like indoor golf get really fun.

Dongsturm
Feb 17, 2012

I see your mistake. By admitting to your love of adventure, you have revealed yourself to be selfish and inconsiderate of your family and place in society! Obviously you will wantonly abandon your important post of administrative assistant, the moment you hear the call of adventure.




Seriously though, you should have put "telephone" first.

Dongsturm
Feb 17, 2012

interwhat posted:

I wonder, could it ever be possible to create a social media group for non-management people to voice their concerns and come together as a group to push back against the corp, without them actually finding out? My suspicion is that a mole would get in immediately, or some boot licking loud mouth will just screenshot everything to management.


I've been enjoying watching people from my old company gossip on Blind, and when the discussion starts to get too frank, someone reminds the thread that management is definitely reading it and can probably track people based on writing style, and then the thread goes into this weird stilted mode where everyone tries to say the bad thing without actually saying the bad thing.

I'm sure I remember stories about the early union strikes being betrayed by one guy that the management bribed, and I think the only real solution was solidarity. It's easy to get some cops to break up a strike at a factory, but when another 5,000 people show up to join the strike, it doesn't matter how much warning the management gets, the strike will be successful. Or a massive riot, which I guess is still kind of successful.

Dongsturm
Feb 17, 2012

deep dish peat moss posted:

I have no idea how to contact them to do this. They're one of those big tech startups that is waaaaaaaaaaay too big for itself, no one whose contact information I have is still there. I worked for a company that they acquired and I was part of the acquisition. They never gave us any information about organizational structure or who to reach out to about what, we had no access to the company directory, etc. We were even on our own separate Slack instance lmao. Absolutely zero public contact information. I guess I could certified mail it to their HQ office but they're still not in-office there and likely never will be.

You don't have to get the contact right, the important bit is the sending.

Send two registered letters, one to the CEO, one to the company lawyer or "legal department". Tell them you have the laptop and are charging storage.

When they come back 3 years later, you can say "as noted in my letter on the 16 Feb 2022, you will need to pay $500 storage before receiving the laptop"

Dongsturm
Feb 17, 2012

Machai posted:

Take a other four, as long as you get your work done.

Or give that 4-day week a try

Dongsturm
Feb 17, 2012

Outrail posted:

I'm guessing the problem is if companies say 'you need to request time off and also it must be at least a week/month in advance and also we're going to deny your requests for very good reasons'.

It's this. I've been at places where the answer to every leave request was "we need you that week, schedule your holiday some other time". Mysterious, everybody was a key employee for the whole year.

Dongsturm
Feb 17, 2012

Elephant Ambush posted:

Most people are terrible at facilitating effective meetings. Tons of people will ask the question "Is everyone OK with this change?" and since tons of people are either barely paying attention because the meeting is boring or because they're messaging someone on the side or doing other work they don't say anything.

FYI this is deliberate

Dongsturm
Feb 17, 2012

Takes No Damage posted:

This is just the way things are. My sister did a college internship at ATT in like 2002 and in one day she was able to use one of the programs there more efficiently than some career employees. Her secret? She read the manual :eng101:

Reading the manual is cheating. :colbert:

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Dongsturm
Feb 17, 2012

zedprime posted:

If you have any unused flanged ports on your top head there's plenty of dip tubes of variable length you can get from the equivalent of Granger Supply. Without doing ill advised things to your pressure release, you can get a dip tube about as long as your pressure release liquid lock is tall. Ex. If you have a hose going to a garbage bin like most brewers your size, you can get a dip tube a little less long than the trashcan is tall.

If you have any flanges free in your bottom head you can get a dip tube reaching up and use gravity but you need to blow those out somehow or you get even scummier samples, also a bitch to clean just between batches.

If that doesn't get you in the sample territory because of headspace you can get a longer dip tube but now you get into the ill poo poo where you are looking for more back pressure than your airlock gets you. Make sure your pressure gauge is good, close your valve going to the airlock. You need half a PSI for every foot your dipstick is long plus losses to friction. Get your sample then burp it back to normal. I'm not responsible if you blow a flange or wall out.

finally I understand what my partner feels like when I talk computers in front of her

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