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Suplex Liberace posted:Hello I have a request I need everyone's favorite/good history books. Topic is not super important I just need the biggest list possible to pull from. The Great Mortality: An Intimate History of the Black Death, the Most Devastating Plague of All Time by John Kelly
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Sep 25, 2021 17:28
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vyelkin posted:oh speaking of, does anyone know why there are two history threads? it's such a weird arbitrary division, im pretty sure this forum could handle talking about the ussr and the roman empire in the same thread and im pretty sure i see the same posters in both threads anyway The modern history stuff led to some political slapfights while ancient history folks wanted to discuss cuneiform breakup letters so they were separated to keep the slapfights to one thread.
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Sep 30, 2021 17:39
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I'm no expert on the topic but would the whole myth of the clean Wehrmacht count? Guys like Halder and the various generals got pretty readily translated into English and that myth definitely persisted for way too loving long (and still persists with the general public to some degree). They really shaped a narrative, and I did get the impression that there was at least some English-language scholarship that believed it earnestly. I don't know if that was something that really existed in German war scholarship though so not sure if it would fit.
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Nov 5, 2021 21:28
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Raskolnikov38 posted:ohhh clean wehrmact is a good one, especially since halder helped write US army history documents ahahaha holy poo poo I was not aware of that
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Nov 5, 2021 21:49
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Raskolnikov38 posted:there’s no way that body hasn’t been dissolved in lime And if anyone actually knew where it was and was going to talk, they would have used it for leverage decades ago.
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Nov 21, 2021 00:23
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imagine the guy who wears that. he looked at a puffer fish and said "im gonna wear that as a hat and run at other guys who are gonna try to kill me"
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Dec 31, 2021 18:56
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I mean, he was probably alive after the cannonball exited out the back, so 0 pinocchios on this
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Jan 8, 2022 01:09
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gradenko_2000 posted:there's no way they could have known it at the time but it's kinda fun thinking about arguing from the other direction: you should keep Yamamoto in the seat because his penchant for overcomplicated plans keeps getting the IJN into trouble another interesting counterfactual is whether he would have had any effect on the timing of the japanese surrender. i tend to think no, but it's interesting to think about
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Jan 8, 2022 06:02
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Ardennes posted:There is some of that, but Midway was more than anything else was about code breaking. His planning was complex because he knew the disadvantageous state the entire was in even in at the near peak of its strength. Midway itself was a defensible plan given the forces present, but as was pointed out in Shattered Sword, it was a critical mistake to ever split up the carriers for any reason. Midway would likely have looked a lot different had the carriers Shokaku, Zuikaku, Ryujo and Junyo, been present, though all that likely would have done is made the Americans fall back to Pearl Harbor and maybe pushed out the war's timeline.
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Jan 8, 2022 20:07
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Ardennes posted:Honestly, time was working against the Japanese at that point, they needed to take out US carriers. It was a gamble that didn’t pay off but I don’t think it was a pointless one. Yeah, they basically needed about 5 more lucky breaks to happen over the course of the war for them to have a chance, one of which being that the US didn't break their codes and another being that they get the drop on the US carriers at Midway, so in that context it wasn't a bad move, and it was probably their best play even if it ended up being a huge setback as it played out.
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Jan 8, 2022 20:41
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The county where I'm from lost population in every census since it peaked in the 1930 census, with there being about half the number of people today as there as 1930. Individual towns are mostly in decline but occasionally see an increase as old farmers go into one of the local retirement homes.
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Jan 19, 2022 14:06
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It definitely changes the timetable for Civil Rights and thus the collapse of the Democratic coalition and associated migration of conservative Dems over to the GOP, possibly into the 70s. Those forces though we're gonna tear the party apart regardless at some point, so it's probably more a question of timing than anything else.
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Jan 30, 2022 15:37
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Raskolnikov38 posted:that number seems incredibly low Yeah, that number seems like it would probably be in line with overall mortality for children in that age range for the time. No way that's true.
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May 11, 2022 21:10
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mawarannahr posted:i was looking for a pic based on the above conversation and found a different one lazy da share zone knockoff
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Jun 6, 2022 21:35
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gradenko_2000 posted:A history channel thread that's only for ww2 posting a dadposting thread could be fun
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Jun 26, 2022 23:10
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Grevling posted:Yeah, that's the one. Looks like some historians dislike it, maybe there's reason to be wary of trusting it completely. The part where both civilians and soldiers were using drugs on a pretty large scale rings true though. The degree to which meth (or things that are close enough to meth as to effectively be meth) we're both available and widely used explains not only a lot of behavior during WW2 but also a lot of regular postwar family life. There was a whole class of uppers marketed directly to housewives for example, and it barely warrants a passing mention if acknowledged at all when talking about how people acted.
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Jul 21, 2022 14:20
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Leaded gasoline gets a lot of attention but it really is shocking just how many hosed up things were in the air and ground water back then. Like, it's not exactly good here nowadays but back then it was the loving wild west of dumping chemicals into the storm sewer and hoping no one noticed.
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Jul 21, 2022 23:38
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War and Pieces posted:only if I get to be put on a poster/made into statues *monkey's paw curls as you die falling into a vat of molten steel*
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Jul 28, 2022 14:03
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Shattered Sword by Parshall and Tully is about Midway and features a neat example of scholarship in one language not matching that if another, and Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors by James D. Hornfischer about the colossal fuckup that was the Battle off Samar.
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Jul 29, 2022 01:15
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We had this discussion a bit ago and them actually nuking prisoners seems to be an urban legend driven by people seeing that photo and thinking they were real people and not dummies. That isn't to say if something was uncovered tomorrow proving they did it that it would be in any way shocking, just that what is happening there is not what is being claimed.
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Aug 10, 2022 01:23
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I still love the idea that Oswald fired 2 shots, one that missed and one that hit Kennedy but that the fatal headshot was someone else. Without him having fired at least some shots, I have a hard time explaining his actions. He was by literally all accounts, behaving like a guy who at least tried to shoot Kennedy. If he truly was just chilling at work and watching the parade, I don't know why he would sprint out the building thinking they were gonna pin it on him.
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Sep 4, 2022 22:46
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oswald wasn't ever aware of the degree he was being used. the CIA via de Mohrenschildt hyped the guy up to do violence and they wanted him to do something like shoot Gen. Edwin Walker, which would have had genuine use in anti-communist propaganda. him hauling off and shooting Kennedy was problematic for a number of reasons, not the least that the guy had intelligence fingerprints all over him. what the CIA did in the aftermath of the shooting was an extremely hasty cover-up of them juicing up a violent dipshit who ended up in exactly the right place at exactly the right time. there were thousands and thousands of guys just like Oswald stashed all over the US, it just happens that they got extremely lucky/unlucky with this one.
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Sep 5, 2022 13:15
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That also works pretty well in Werner Herzog voice too.
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Sep 23, 2022 21:18
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mawarannahr posted:how was the smell situation below deck? also was there more pegging and jointing, dovetailing and mortising, emitting creaks, groans, and squeals.. in an era when the thames was an open sewer and animal poo poo was everywhere, everyone still remarked on the smell. i genuinely cannot imagine what the smell would be like and i live near industrial hog farms
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Oct 5, 2022 00:11
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MeatwadIsGod posted:When mass executions during the war years are reserved only for the Sioux you know not to expect much in terms of decisive action against the planter class. Other than some of the radical Republicans nobody in power had much interest in real political or much less social equality with newly freed slaves. You would have needed collectivization and redistribution of plantation land to southern blacks along with forming them into armed militias to protect their new holdings for Reconstruction to succeed, and the industrial capitalist contingent that was supercharged by wartime production would not have allowed it even if you had a party in power willing to pursue that course. I drive by the monument to the largest mass hanging in American history quite frequently and that part of our history is just not taught. For those who don't know, the war was caused by the government taking their land and forcing them onto reservations that could not produce enough food to support the existing Native population. The government promised to send food but surprise surprise they did not. So when Minnesota Winter set in, they were faced with literal starvation. This caused them surprise surprise again to go to war to try to reclaim their land because it was either that or starve slowly begging the government to feed them. For this their leaders were hanged. All while Confederate leaders spent the rest of their lives palling around with high society.
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Oct 14, 2022 15:23
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https://twitter.com/depthsofwiki/status/1618698206946414592 lest we forget
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Jan 27, 2023 00:41
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That one's interesting. No Mayday episode and unlike most other crashes, the Wikipedia article is exceptionally sparse.
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Feb 5, 2023 17:43
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Weka posted:South Korea was totally a colony of the USA. Finno-Korean Hyperwar denialist spotted
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Mar 7, 2023 03:26
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MonsieurChoc posted:Holy poo poo Azatoth got demodded. as a bird baby
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Mar 7, 2023 03:39
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Endman posted:Having a colony sort of implies you're settling at least a portion of your own people there, usually to exploit the land/people/both. I'd argue the main innovation of the US with regard to capitalism is how to economically colonize without needing to have the actual boots on the ground administration to extract a shitload of value and send it back to the imperial core.
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Mar 7, 2023 04:49
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AnimeIsTrash posted:We have 15 military bases in South Korea. lol Sorry, by administration I meant actually controlling the levers of government rather than using locals amenable to the international system. Boots on the ground, in this context, was a poor choice of words given our continued military presence.
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Mar 7, 2023 04:54
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Endman posted:You make a good point, but on that note did the US extract any wealth from Vietnam? I’d argue it was a significant drain on the core, attempting to hold it. No, they never did turn the corner on Vietnam and make it profitable, though it wasn't for lack of trying. The MIC made off like bandits, which one could argue demonstrated yet another way to extract resources, just not from external colonization. Some Guy TT posted:technically they do control the levers of government in the sense that united nations command could declare martial law any time they felt like it but yeah thats obviously not preferable to having local patsies run sham elections that only seem legitimate because the margins are close when the outcomes dont actually matter Yeah, that's the crux of my point. They have theoretical sovereignty and self determination, and if you ask the people there if they do, they would absolutely say yes. However, the moment they do anything that is against the interests of the ownership class, the machinery of capitalism begins to work against them. Whether that is the UN or the IMF or the EU or individual countries protecting the interests of their local ownership class, it doesn't really matter who.
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Mar 7, 2023 15:14
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Dameius posted:The, "You're free to do whatever you want so long as it is what we want," form of colonization. An ancient tradition, to be sure.
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Mar 7, 2023 16:28
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Weka posted:Really? They borrowed ~2/3 of a billion dollars from the IMF. If you're referring to their more recent borrowing from the 80s on, yeah sure it worked out in the long run, but in terms of the cost of propping up the South Vietnam regime and then the cost of the war, there's no way the US extracted back out that much before the fall of Saigon. And yeah a lot of the "cost" itself is just money transfer from government to the MIC but even with that, we plowed a lot of cash into trying to keep the puppet regime going.
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Mar 8, 2023 02:24
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Some Guy TT posted:[Modern History] Guns Condoms and Electricity
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Mar 30, 2023 18:38
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War and Pieces posted:guns mean that any woman can reliably kill any man at any time *extremely german nana voice* you kids. back in my day i just put arsenic in his coffee, now you need all these fancy contraptions...
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Mar 30, 2023 20:34
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lol all dems need to do to get big turnout is gesture vaguely at trump, they've done it for the last 3 cycles and they'll do it again and the dumbasses will dutifully pull the lever for the lesser senile rapist.
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Jun 15, 2023 15:52
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Whirling posted:It is very strange that American education doesn't really ever get into these things of why the Nazis sucked; we at least teach about the Holocaust, but there's nothing about what I'm reading in this book (thank you for the recommend) where, in the brief peacetime period of Nazi Germany, wages are stagnant, unions are basically banned, and all the economy is being geared towards massive rearmament rather than the benefit of the citizens. I guess it rings a little too closely to how our US government does nothing but spend on the military? A lot of it stems from self-serving post-war memoirs that explain away Allied incompetence as Nazi brilliance, something the Nazi generals were happy to incorporate into their own post-war memoirs to bolster their own reputations. Of course no one really wants to interrogate why we didn't step in sooner than we did, but there's a whole lotta bad decisions being made by the Allies well after the sides came down as they did.
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Jun 26, 2023 22:12
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Stalin correctly predicted 12 of the 7 coups being plotted against him.
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Jun 27, 2023 02:29
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Raskolnikov38 posted:reading accounts of the purged I’m not so sure it was statistics driving the purges but rather the insane nature of them vis a vis demanding the arrested name as many names as possible. it really just strikes me as an incredibly stupid and deadly positive feedback loop where each arrest leads to a dozen more and each of those dozen nets another dozen and so and so on. When people named names, how was the treatment relative to those who didn't name names? I ask because something I had heard about the Salem Witch Trials, which in which accusations propagated in the same way, was that those who produced names of their fellow witches usually if not always avoided a direct death sentence. I say direct because jail was particularly deadly then and could itself be seen as a death sentence on a sufficiently long timescale. I'm curious to know if the dynamic where someone falsely confessing and naming names was also interpreted as a sign of remorse or contrition was also present in the purges.
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Jun 27, 2023 21:07
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