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This is a thread for discussing the allegations made by Tara Reade against the current President of the United States, Joe Biden. As this subject has been roped off in the megathread, I figured it could use a new home in the form of this thread right here. I don't think I need to point out that this not is a place to punish your posting enemies, but if you feel like you have to engage on that crusade instead of the topic, well, consider yourself warned. In addition, this thread comes with a very large and prominent Content Warning as the material being discussed is equal parts disturbing and awful. Words about sexual assault, gaslighting, and false witness will be present here. Personally, I find it utterly garish, if not ghoulish that the media decided to completely can and unperson her so thoroughly and I feel it's a complete failure and a damning indictment of journalism in this country, let alone in general. Victory Position fucked around with this message at 23:51 on Feb 7, 2021 |
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Feb 7, 2021 22:05
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I cannot understand why folks keep referring to her allegations as credible, I am excited to read about the valid proof that I have missed in the last 2 years.
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Feb 7, 2021 22:12
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try the new taco place posted:I cannot understand why folks keep referring to her allegations as credible, I am excited to read about the valid proof that I have missed in the last 2 years. Other than: 1) We should believe women 2) She made and filed a complaint when it happened 3) Joe Biden has a long history of being a creepy sex-pest Do tell, why do you think her allegations are not credible?
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Feb 7, 2021 22:14
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Victory Position posted:Personally, I find it utterly garish, if not ghoulish that the media decided to completely can and unperson her so thoroughly and I feel it's a complete failure and a damning indictment of journalism in this country, let alone in general. I agree. She's essentially persona non grata in American media, now, to the point that she's in RT, which we all know has a questionable bent: https://twitter.com/ReadeAlexandra/status/1356681743663685633?s=20 Has anyone seen anything that indicates that Biden's senate papers could be unsealed before it doesn't matter anymore? From the University of Delaware's library: "The records will be available no sooner than the later date of December 31, 2019, or two years after the donor retires from public life." try the new taco place posted:I cannot understand why folks keep referring to her allegations as credible, I am excited to read about the valid proof that I have missed in the last 2 years. Are they any less credible than AOC's?
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Feb 7, 2021 22:15
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:No!!!! Don't post about dnd, or what you think of the dnd rules, or whatever the hell forums discussion in cspam. Post about idiot libs in office/on twitter/whatever, but you don't get a thread for discussing dnd moderation or posters in cspam, period. Many cspam posters have pointed out how they think the moderation and rule is related to a broader political context of marginalizing and silencing Tara Reade. Again, imagine if a republican forum did similar actions about trump rape allegations. Can I post in this D&D thread just created along these lines pointing out these issues?
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Feb 7, 2021 22:18
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comedyblissoption posted:We'll just have to agree to disagree. The quote you posted from Jeffrey from YOSPOS, owner of this website, seems to state pretty definitively that the answer is No.
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Feb 7, 2021 22:20
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Am I allowed to make fun of the moderation rules now saying you can't criticize the moderation rules without mentioning which moderation rules, or is that still too much criticism to handle? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 7, 2021 22:22
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try the new taco place posted:I cannot understand why folks keep referring to her allegations as credible, I am excited to read about the valid proof that I have missed in the last 2 years. Coming from the opposite side, I've never seen any "debunkings" of her that made her sound less credible than Christine Blasey Ford imo and I believe her so I don't know why I wouldn't also believe Reade
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Feb 7, 2021 22:22
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DoomTrainPhD posted:Other than: There’s no evidence that a complaint was ever filed. No record of it has ever been produced, and Reade’s account of how she made the complaint, and to where, has changed over time. Mainstream outlets largely stopped covering the story after Politico reported that Reade appears to have committed perjury as an expert witness.
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Feb 7, 2021 22:22
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It's disgusting how they silenced her but not surprising, look back how disgusting they treated now commonly-known rapist Bill Clintons victims. It's worse now though as the liberal culture/politics has co-opted academic language for their psuedo-feminism/'woke'ness, especially since Trump became the republican nominee in 2016. So you have all these outlets blasting pro-women messages and boosting all these victims of Trump's sexual assaults and talking about how important MeToo and believing victims is, Christine Blasey Ford's testimony, etc, immediately before abandoning all that and smearing Bidens victim, despite having decades of corroboration, trusted character witnesses, etc. As Marx would call it, a heightening of contradictions.
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Feb 7, 2021 22:24
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Fallen Hamprince posted:There’s no evidence that a complaint was ever filed. No record of it has ever been produced, and Reade’s account of how she made the complaint, and to where, has changed over time. The records are sealed iirc People's stories change over time, especially those stemming from traumatic events. I don't care that she committed purgery as an expert witness Again, Joe has a long history of being a sex-pest
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Feb 7, 2021 22:25
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DoomTrainPhD posted:The records are sealed iirc Just to be clear, what are the other sex pest accusations? Or are we talking the creepy grandpa poo poo? Both are bad, Im just genuinely curious if there is other more direct acusations there that are credible.
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Feb 7, 2021 22:28
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Insanite posted:I agree. She's essentially persona non grata in American media, now, to the point that she's in RT, which we all know has a questionable bent:
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Feb 7, 2021 22:28
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DoomTrainPhD posted:The records are sealed iirc To be clear, you don't believe that committing perjury erodes someone's credibility? Can you understand how someone could believe the opposite?
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Feb 7, 2021 22:29
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DoomTrainPhD posted:I don't care that she committed purgery as an expert witness I'm not sure how much of this thread I'm going to be able to handle, frankly, and I expect to need to tap out sooner rather than later. This has always been the grossest part of this discussion. I've always hated the credibility attacks and character assassination. If she lied in that case, or even has a history of lying, I don't care, because liars can still be assaulted. Going after the details of the event is gross but justifiable, going after her character to say "ah hah! she's a bad person, therefore, she couldn't have been raped!" is just nightmarish to me.
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Feb 7, 2021 22:31
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Zook posted:It's disgusting how they silenced her but not surprising, look back how disgusting they treated now commonly-known rapist Bill Clintons victims. It's worse now though as the liberal culture/politics has co-opted academic language for their psuedo-feminism/'woke'ness, especially since Trump became the republican nominee in 2016. So you have all these outlets blasting pro-women messages and boosting all these victims of Trump's sexual assaults and talking about how important MeToo and believing victims is, Christine Blasey Ford's testimony, etc, immediately before abandoning all that and smearing Bidens victim, despite having decades of corroboration, trusted character witnesses, etc. As Marx would call it, a heightening of contradictions. The Democratic party's treatment of Biden and Clinton, but especially Clinton, are indicative of a massive gulf between stated values and actual ones. How can an organization claim that it supports victims of sexual assault, trafficking, etc. if it tolerates Bill Clinton in 2021?
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Feb 7, 2021 22:31
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BRAKE FOR MOOSE posted:I'm not sure how much of this thread I'm going to be able to handle, frankly, and I expect to need to tap out sooner rather than later. This has always been the grossest part of this discussion. I've always hated the credibility attacks and character assassination. If she lied in that case, or even has a history of lying, I don't care, because liars can still be assaulted. Going after the details of the event is gross but justifiable, going after her character to say "ah hah! she's a bad person, therefore, she couldn't have been raped!" is just nightmarish to me. Yeah exactly. Her lying about having a college degree does not mean she lied about being raped, and it's disgusting to think otherwise.
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Feb 7, 2021 22:34
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Abhorrence posted:To be clear, you don't believe that committing perjury erodes someone's credibility? I do believe that one's trauma can lead one to commit perjury, as when one believes the events so greatly, they can believe it to be true. It doesn't make her any less credible and speaks more to the monstrosity of a coverup at work.
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Feb 7, 2021 22:35
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DoomTrainPhD posted:The records are sealed iirc The complaint, would not be in Biden’s sealed staff papers. The complaint would be to the Senate’s personnel office, not Biden’s office, for obvious reasons. A Senator’s papers do not contain records of personnel complaints, as the papers are accessible by the Senator.
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Feb 7, 2021 22:36
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Abhorrence posted:To be clear, you don't believe that committing perjury erodes someone's credibility? No, and no. Her committing perjury does not mean she wasn't raped. That's a terrible take and opens the door for any woman accusing another person of raping them to be character assassinated. So no, I don't understand how someone could believe the opposite because it's ghoulish to think that way.
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Feb 7, 2021 22:36
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Abhorrence posted:To be clear, you don't believe that committing perjury erodes someone's credibility? This is "no angel" character assassination.
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Feb 7, 2021 22:38
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Abhorrence posted:To be clear, you don't believe that committing perjury erodes someone's credibility? Would you consider Biden's catalogue of lying about various things over the years evidence that he did in fact do it, then? Because that's the same logic.
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Feb 7, 2021 22:40
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Fallen Hamprince posted:The complaint, would not be in Biden’s sealed staff papers. The complaint would be to the Senate’s personnel office, not Biden’s office, for obvious reasons. A Senator’s papers do not contain records of personnel complaints, as the papers are accessible by the Senator. Is there an incentive to 'lose' complaints like that against sitting senators? Might this have been an even easier thing decades ago? From the same article, which shows that either Reade planned an impressive long game or something was up: "One friend, who knew Reade in 1993, said Reade told them about the alleged assault when it happened. The second friend met Reade more than a decade after the alleged incident and confirmed that Reade had a conversation with the friend in 2007 or 2008 about experiencing sexual harassment from Biden while working in his Senate office." One of the sad, fascinating things about this case is how the "believe women" ethos goes out the window when it's politically inconvenient to Democrats.
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Feb 7, 2021 22:41
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Abhorrence posted:To be clear, you don't believe that committing perjury erodes someone's credibility? perjury requires an intent to deceive and the college she went to for her law degree requires all students to have a degree before enrollment ive never actually seen any evidence that somehow proves, one way or the other, that she definitely did or did not graduate before going to law school, ignoring how completely inconsequential that is regardless, so if you have any you should post it itt
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Feb 7, 2021 22:43
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Abhorrence posted:To be clear, you don't believe that committing perjury erodes someone's credibility? What is Joe Biden's credibility given that his first presidential campaign imploded over lying and plagiarism? e: This not a useful branch of discussion, never mind the moral implications of it--it's he said, she said between two people who've had issues with the truth in the past. Who do you give the benefit of the doubt? If political expedience is the tie breaker here for you, I'd be straight about it. Insanite fucked around with this message at 22:54 on Feb 7, 2021 |
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Feb 7, 2021 22:44
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DoomTrainPhD posted:Other than: There was also that time her mom called into the larry king show on August 11th 1993 giving a strong hint it happened. That really sealed it for me. Coincidentally, the only evidence of that video having happened is hosted by fox news. Archive access to the larry king show is restricted.
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Feb 7, 2021 22:46
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Malleum posted:ive never actually seen any evidence that somehow proves, one way or the other, that she definitely did or did not graduate before going to law school, ignoring how completely inconsequential that is regardless, so if you have any you should post it itt Antioch University officials state categorically that she did not graduate. "Politico posted:Karen Hamilton, a spokeswoman for Antioch University, said in a statement that Reade did not graduate and was never a faculty member. Reade attended Antioch for three academic quarters, in 2000 and part of 2001, the university said.
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Feb 7, 2021 22:50
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Fallen Hamprince posted:Antioch University officials state categorically that she did not graduate. Who cares? This has absolutely NOTHING to do with her accusation. Any further discussion around her character should be grounds for a probe. Edit: I don't mean this about Tara specifically. Trying to character assassinate any woman in an attempt to discredit their accusation should be grounds for a probe. It's disgusting. FlapYoJacks fucked around with this message at 22:58 on Feb 7, 2021 |
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Feb 7, 2021 22:55
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Insanite posted:What is Joe Biden's credibility given that his first presidential campaign imploded over lying and plagiarism? to restate my point in a way that may be clearer, i dont think tara reade perjured herself because she did not intend to somehow cover up her lack of a pre-grad degree when she already had a post-grad degree, and saying that she committed perjury is incorrect i think that, in the grand scheme of things, the whole focus on her college admission as proof that she lied and therefore proves that shes a lying liar who can't be trusted is both incredibly gross and false, because there is no (or i have simply not seen any) proof that she knew that she did not have a pre-grad degree but told the court so anyway in some kind of plot to defraud attorneys rather than simply assume she had a degree because she went to a college for 4 years and then got into a second college that required a degree from the first for admission
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Feb 7, 2021 22:57
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https://twitter.com/MattFountain1/status/1258524341261623296?s=19 24 years before Biden decided to run for president. https://www.npr.org/2020/04/29/847982990/former-neighbor-corroborates-tara-reades-account-of-sexual-assault-by-joe-biden KELLY: Just briefly tell us - what is the actual allegation that Reade is making here? KHALID: She says that sometime in the spring of 1993 in a hallway on Capitol Hill, Joe Biden pinned her up against a wall and penetrated her vagina with his fingers. The Biden campaign has said that Reade's claim is untrue - that it absolutely did not happen. KELLY: So you have now spoken with an old neighbor of Tara Reade's who's corroborating her allegation. Who is that and what are they saying? KHALID: Yeah, that's right. Her name is Lynda LaCasse, and her name first came to our attention because of some interview she did with Business Insider. They published this account earlier this week in which Lynda LaCasse, who was a neighbor of Reade's in California in the mid-1990s, says that Reade told her about the assault. LaCasse did not respond to my initial messages or phone calls, but through Tara Reade, I was able to reach her earlier today. And I should note that through public records, NPR was also able to verify that Reade and LaCasse were neighbors for a point in the 1990s. So LaCasse told me that she recalls stepping outside one day in 1995 or early 1996 and Reade joined her and they started talking. And at that point, Reade started sharing this story of an alleged assault by Joe Biden. What she told me matches the details of what Reade has alleged. LYNDA LACASSE: I do remember her telling me that Joe Biden had put her up against the wall and had put his hand - his hand - his hand up her skirt and had put his fingers inside her. KHALID: And, Mary Louise, what also caught my ear in speaking with LaCasse is that she describes herself as a strong Democrat. She told me she intends to support Joe Biden in the general election. And I asked her, you know, how she reconciles voting for a man whom she believes assaulted her old friend. LACASSE: Biden isn't a bad guy. I think he's an OK guy. He just has this - this just happened. It just happened. It did happen.
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Feb 7, 2021 22:59
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Malleum posted:i think that, in the grand scheme of things, the whole focus on her college admission as proof that she lied and therefore proves that shes a lying liar who can't be trusted is both incredibly gross and false, because there is no (or i have simply not seen any) proof that she knew that she did not have a pre-grad degree but told the court so anyway in some kind of plot to defraud attorneys rather than simply assume she had a degree because she went to a college for 4 years and then got into a second college that required a degree from the first for admission It's a very strange double standard in which one woman is punished for accreditation and another, Dr. Jill Biden, is praised and held up high with the other side of this argument.
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Feb 7, 2021 22:59
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Freakazoid_ posted:There was also that time her mom called into the larry king show on August 11th 1993 giving a strong hint it happened. That really sealed it for me. In that video, Reade’s mother states that Reade had had “problems” while working at Biden’s office, but didn’t want to speak out for fear of harming Biden’s reputation. It’s not particularly consistent with the 2020 allegations. Reade’s former coworker, when interviewed, told reporters that Reade had had difficulties with her work as a staffer. Reade’s account of the assault does not match up with the geography of the capital building. quote:Reade says the alleged assault took place while she was delivering a gym bag to Biden along the indoor route between his office and the Capitol. Her lawyer specified to NewsHour that it happened “in a semiprivate area like an alcove” located “somewhere between the Russell [building] and/or Capitol building.” Reade previously described the assault taking place in a “side area.”
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Feb 7, 2021 22:59
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There are a bunch of accounts of her talking about it contemporaneously when it happened, as well as her mother calling in, and various other staffers who worked with her at the time said they also believe it happened. I also think that having that kind of traumatic event happen to you might affect the way the rest of your life goes, so using something that happened decades later doesn't really have any bearing and is pretty much just grasping at straws trying to impugn her. Again, Biden has lied about much more substantial things with much more severe consequences, but that doesn't really seem relevant to the people bringing up the degree thing, which is a pretty glaring inconsistency.
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Feb 7, 2021 23:00
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Malleum posted:to restate my point in a way that may be clearer, i dont think tara reade perjured herself because she did not intend to somehow cover up her lack of a pre-grad degree when she already had a post-grad degree, and saying that she committed perjury is incorrect Nah, sorry. That was just a total misquote on my part. 
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Feb 7, 2021 23:00
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Fallen Hamprince posted:In that video, Reade’s mother states that Reade had had “problems” while working at Biden’s office, but didn’t want to speak out for fear of harming Biden’s reputation. It’s not particularly consistent with the 2020 allegations. Reade’s former coworker, when interviewed, told reporters that Reade had had difficulties with her work as a staffer. Do you think Reade is making it up and her neighbor is in on the conspiracy decades in the making?
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Feb 7, 2021 23:01
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Fallen Hamprince posted:In that video, Reade’s mother states that Reade had had “problems” while working at Biden’s office, but didn’t want to speak out for fear of harming Biden’s reputation. It’s not particularly consistent with the 2020 allegations. Reade’s former coworker, when interviewed, told reporters that Reade had had difficulties with her work as a staffer. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/12/us/politics/joe-biden-tara-reade-sexual-assault-complaint.html quote:Ms. Reade, who worked as a staff assistant helping manage the office interns, said she also filed a complaint with the Senate in 1993 about Mr. Biden; she said she did not have a copy of it, and such paperwork has not been located. The Biden campaign said it did not have a complaint. The Times reviewed an official copy of her employment history from the Senate that she provided showing she was hired in December 1992 and paid by Mr. Biden’s office until August 1993. It seems much more straightforward to assume that people who were there at the time and had first hand knowledge of both the location and the people involved had a better perspective on how likely it was to have happened than people walking around 30 years later and saying "nope doesn't look like it to me, case closed"
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Feb 7, 2021 23:03
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Fallen Hamprince posted:Antioch University officials state categorically that she did not graduate. Yup, she was no angel. We shouldn't give this woman of ill repute any more attention or time.
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Feb 7, 2021 23:03
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Insanite posted:What is Joe Biden's credibility given that his first presidential campaign imploded over lying and plagiarism? Just to be clear here, about my own personal views I do believe Reide, but the circumstances make it unclear enough that I can understand why people would be skeptical, without being rape apologists. Please correct me if I'm wrong,, but there is little to no corroborating evidence; I recall the politico investigative journalist who investigated it expressing her frustration over the lack of evidence. So a lot of this depends on believing in Reade, and a history of lying makes that more difficult. Abhorrence fucked around with this message at 23:47 on Feb 7, 2021 |
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Feb 7, 2021 23:03
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Fallen Hamprince posted:In that video, Reade’s mother states that Reade had had “problems” while working at Biden’s office, but didn’t want to speak out for fear of harming Biden’s reputation. It’s not particularly consistent with the 2020 allegations. Reade’s former coworker, when interviewed, told reporters that Reade had had difficulties with her work as a staffer. This is an old argument that came up in the Epstein thread, but one's inability to remember specifics about the location of their assault does not make them less credible. If your argument is that, "The Capitol is distinct in its make," you better be ready to back that up with the distinctions lacking in her statements.
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Feb 7, 2021 23:04
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Victory Position posted:It's a very strange double standard in which one woman is punished for accreditation and another, Dr. Jill Biden, is praised and held up high with the other side of this argument. this is such a weird false equivalency that reads like you desperately trying to insulting jill biden for... reasons? the only time that anyone 'praises' jill biden is to point out that, yes, its gross to scold her for using the professional title of a degree she earned (even if its tacky for her to use it), and it is somewhat notable that she is continuing to work while serving as first lady. regardless, it has nothing to do with this topic, and this is a gross post. i think itd be helpful to have some more guardrails around what this thread and discussion should be. i don't think trying to litigate the specific details of tara reade's accusations in this thread to arrive at some sort of judgement is appropriate or worthwhile, and i think it obscures from what i think is a more meaningful discussion, which is disparity in treatment of accusations against democratic and republican politicians, and why or why not this might happen. i think it'd be helpful to have a single post with all the information about reade on record and let that speak for itself.
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Feb 7, 2021 23:04
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