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Caros posted:Just to be clear, what are the other sex pest accusations? Or are we talking the creepy grandpa poo poo? "Creepy grandpa poo poo" was ignoring girls' and women's physical autonomy and boundaries--while Biden was on camera and in a position of power (physically & figuratively) over them. It's also the most common first stage of predator grooming. Telling young girls to not date until they're 30? That's creepy grandpa poo poo. Mauling them while pinning their bodies against him? That's assault. I get for-real nauseous when I watch videos of those "creepy grandpa" moments from Biden, bc it brings me back to the time in which I grew up, back when adults dismissed "creepy grandpas" by telling us they're harmless, they don't know what they're doing, don't make a fuss, it makes him happy to "show affection" to you. Watching a sitting u.s. senator like Chris Coons shucking & jiving while his daughter exhibits obvious physical discomfort (wincing, pulling away from Biden) at being accosted by the vice president of the united states is repulsive beyond description; it's a testament to the hypocrisy of those who demand we believe women, except when it's politically unpalatable to do so.
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Feb 8, 2021 22:31
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PeterCat posted:So, I've come to the conclusion that Biden should resign. Now, hear me out, this isn't flippant. Biden's well documented history of fondling, sniffing, commenting on, and invading the personal space of others fits the definition of sexual harassment. A person who displayed the same behavior in a professional setting would be fired, there is no reason that the President should be exempt from the same standards. I agree--but if Biden resigned, we'd then get a president who sanctioned-by-silence the priest-rape of minors.
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Feb 15, 2021 19:42
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PeterCat posted:Are you lesser of two eviling me about getting rid of Biden? That's how we got here in the first place. No, of course not; I was pointing out how riddled the ranks are with accessories to rape as well as rapists themselves. eta: I've never become "removed or apathetic" about national politics but my disillusionment with Dems dates back to watching self-ID'd "feminists" slut-shame & try to discredit Bill Clinton's rape victims. Clinton normalized the idea of rapist-in-chief. Willa Rogers fucked around with this message at 22:56 on Feb 15, 2021 |
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Feb 15, 2021 22:47
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silicone thrills posted:I wasn't old enough to remember the first Clinton election. Was his sex allegation stuff brought up at the time? All of the allegations surfaced publicly after Clinton was elected president, and some even after the Lewinsky stuff broke in his second term. Here's the wiki on the accusations. Sodomy Hussein posted:I guess what I'm saying is that Biden mismanaging the crises in front of us is his only path to defeat, since it was Trump's path to defeat and people in aggregate have weighed the Reade allegations against the situation and voted Biden. That's not necessarily true; modern history is rife with examples of things that were considered politically acceptable in the recent past but would bury a candidate today. I'm sure that'll be true in the years ahead, as well. Pres. Puddin'head won't be running again in 2024 anyway; it'll be Kween Kamala as the Dem candidate.
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Feb 18, 2021 23:35
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Insanite posted:Clinton's approval among women was higher after impeachment than before, IIRC. Yes; that buttressed my disgust at the "feminists" who slut-shamed Lewinsky. They won! Just like Tara's slut-shamers won! If there's one thing we know by now, after the last 25 years, it's that morals & principles fly out the window when team spirit's at stake.
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Feb 19, 2021 02:29
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xcheopis posted:Many women supported both Lewinsky and Hill. Which goes to show you that morality is elastic, and subject to political expediency.
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Feb 19, 2021 02:32
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Clinton was first elected president during the Year of the Woman, which arose out of women's anger & disgust over the Clarence Thomas confirmation hearings, which were led by one Joseph Robinette Biden. Now there's a circle of hell for ya.
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Feb 19, 2021 07:37
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One of the things I've thought about is how Dem sexual abuse & harassment is usually only covered by rightwing media, which makes it easy for liberals to dismiss such news as "Another rightwing smear job by a discredited hack outlet.  "If it's deemed big enough--ie, Lewinsky--and the media can't ignore it, then it's time to discredit by smearing the accuser. Otoh, if it's the way Biden ignored the physical boundaries & autonomy of young girls & women it's easy for corporate media to brush it off as james o'keefe-ish editing tricks bc until the past year that behavior was only covered by rightwing outlets--but that doesn't make Biden's behavior any more acceptable, and then the sourcing becomes the story more than the underlying news. (And such a tactic is p. effective, as we see itt when the behavior is shrugged off as "creepy grandpa stuff.") I haven't yet read the dnd thread on reliable media sourcing, but this media dynamic is why I'm a bit squicked out at Dems' eagerness to censor & de-platform rightwing sources; I wonder if that eagerness isn't at least partly due to a Dem ideal of marginalizing & shutting out news that is damaging to members of the party. I have no idea whether the flip side is true--I imagine it's done by the GOP as well, but I don't read rightwing media. Ultimately I really don't want Jack Dorsey determining that certain stories are injurious to his ideals of democracy, as happened with the Hunter Biden coverage in the NY Post, because the next time a Dem politician rapes someone, and only outlets like the NY Post are covering it, it'll become even easier for liberals to squelch & dismiss the news. And this also ties in with the Me Too eruption of media scandals post-Weinstein; beloved liberal media figures like Matt Lauer, Charlie Rose, Glenn Thrush and John Hockenberry and lesser-known-but-influential names like the head of NPR's news division, Michael Oreskes, were all found to be harassers & rapists. If liberal-media ranks are filled with sex pests & rapists, how reliably will they cover Dem sex pests & rapists, especially when it's politically inconvenient, as in 2020? And if rightwing media are the only ones amplifying news about Dem rapists, does shutting them out of social media & censoring such news (as well as amplifying non-news like Bernie's imaginary hatred of women intuited through his body language, as someone mentioned upthread) serve our political process or further destroy it? Willa Rogers fucked around with this message at 19:17 on Feb 20, 2021 |
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Feb 20, 2021 19:12
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silicone thrills posted:Don't forget the Prairie Home Companion guy even got outed. Yeah, I forgot to include Keillor, but when I found this list of those who'd been outed by Me Too I couldn't bring myself to read the entire list.  Another thing I thought of after posting was how the Mass. Dems smeared Alex Morse last year as a sexpest, just entirely making that poo poo up out of whole cloth, which is yet another reason I'm not keen on allowing liberal outlets to make judgment calls on censorship & de-platforming: They will go after leftists as vociferously as they'll go after the right--and in some cases, they'll go even further with leftists, as in Mass. and as when they amplified Warren's bullshit about Bernie--when the trad Dems are threatened.
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Feb 20, 2021 20:10
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xcheopis posted:I was also surprised and pleased he resigned. People do change and their thoughts and opinions evolve. I'm p. sure that Franken resigned bc other Dem pols, like Gillibrand, were calling for a (public) Congressional inquiry into his behavior. Remember: Prior to Me Too, Congress buried complaints about harassment by its members with its secret tribunals. Far better to be seen as doing "the honorable thing" of resigning, then rehabbing your image so that your behavior goes down the memory hole as "a rightwing smear job based on a rightie pretending that Franken harassed her"--a take I saw only yesterday on a popular liberal forum, and a take that simply ignores the other women who came out about Franken harassing them.
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Feb 20, 2021 20:16
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silicone thrills posted:For the record, I don't think saying - say her name with Tara Reade is a bad thing and it seemed like a really minor ask. People getting uber defensive over it is weird as hell. It's an effective way to derail the thread so that it ends up closed instead of making some tummies hurt.
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Feb 20, 2021 21:05
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How are u posted:How is saying Tara Reade's name in the thread about Tara Reade a derail? How is being thoughtful and considerate of other people a derail? It isn't; I'm with silicone thrills. eta: reading thru some plague rats' posts in this thread, I see I was prolly flippant & uncharitable in my interpretation of their latest posts. Nevertheless, let's all try to honor each others' feelings in a thread the topic of which is as emotionally fraught for those of us who've experienced harassment & assault. Willa Rogers fucked around with this message at 21:15 on Feb 20, 2021 |
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Feb 20, 2021 21:07
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some plague rats posted:e: missed your edit, Willa I generally agree, and again, I apologize. But let's not give the mods reasons to close what's been a good thread, and instead, er, let's Move On. 
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Feb 20, 2021 21:28
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Corky Romanovsky posted:The only way forward is through sincerity. Playing every action like a game has led us here. Excusing bad behavior. Oppression. Not calling poo poo out. Exactly this. We need to make toxic behavior & sexual assault dealbreakers for any public figure, and especially for politicians. Name & shame; rinse & repeat. No more brushing away assault as "creepy grandpa poo poo," "being handsy" or "showing affection." And definitely no more lesser-evilism, as if an actual smaller number of rapes than one's opponent qualifies one to hold office. Mores & social standards change over time, but not on their own. They change because people speak out, draw lines in the sand, and refuse to back down, even when at the cost of their reputations, their professions and their livelihoods. A year or so before Joe Biden sexually assaulted Tara Reade, I was sexually assaulted on a train ride home from my office job. It was an express train, during daylight hours, and the car was packed with commuters--all of whom refused to help me when I pleaded for them to fetch a brakeman or tell the conductor after I'd been assaulted. At the end of the line, when we both got off the train, I yelled at the creep that I'd follow him on his connecting train and up to his house if he left the platform, and also asked the other commuters if they'd find police for me; again, everyone ignored me except for a homeless-looking guy, who did find two officers who came up to the platform. Watching the creep get handcuffed & hauled off felt terrific, but then I had to go to court four or five times bc the creep got a lawyer who kept getting continuances. The first time I met with a D.A. she (yes, she) asked me what I was wearing on the train the day I was assaulted. A subsequent D.A. at a subsequent hearing finally wrangled a conviction by ridiculing the offender's defense that he was asleep when his hand autonomously felt me up from the seat behind me. The creep got a year's supervision, but it was worth all the PTO I'd used for court dates just to see his face blanch at the judge's verdict. I'm not relaying this story as personal heroics; he just happened to be my particular tipping point for my experiencing what had then been decades of low- and high-level sexual harassment. I didn't risk my income or my reputation by insisting that the state press charges, or by testifying. But I did learn to speak up & speak out, and I'll be damned if I ever will vote for another creep for any office for any reason, including so-called lesser-evilism.
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Feb 24, 2021 21:20
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To be clear, re: LionArcher's post, I don't believe in shaming people for voting for Biden or other rapists (although I'm a bit  of that "saving tens of thousands of lives" bit).The perps are the ones who need to be named & shamed, not voters, as well as the media who cover for the perps, and the organizational entities who try to shift the naming & blaming onto accusers instead of the perps, and the female political leaders who try to dismiss the acts of the perps through pinkwashing and thus serve as cover for the perps. I, personally, won't knowingly vote for rapists for political office, but I can totally understand why others believe that they have to, especially when they *do* believe in moral relativism. I don't think it's puritanical (nor is it a purity test) to make this choice for myself.
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Feb 25, 2021 00:26
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Biden's not gonna be impeached for sexually assaulting Tara Reade 30 years ago. Best bet is to wait for Pres. Puddin'head to gracefully withdraw from office (or die) before 2024, then work like hell to challenge Harris, the de facto 2024 nominee, and herself a rape apologist. If, by the grace of satan & new dementia meds making it to market before then, Biden does decide to run for reelection, his sexual assault record should be added to the pile of his other horrible actions and there should also be an offensive against an ingratiating media working to cover up those horrible actions--and he should be challenged in the primary as well.
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Feb 25, 2021 02:37
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Back to the topic at hand: I'm finding the media reaction to the new HBO documentary "Allen vs. Farrow" p. interesting, inasmuch as outlets like the LA Times are calling it "the nail in the coffin of Woody Allen's legacy." His assaulting his daughter also happened in the early 1990s, but it's taken three decades for the majority of public & media opinion to swing from "Farrow was a jilted partner taking revenge on Allen by coaching their daughter into allegations against him" to "Holy gently caress, this guy's been a monster forever and it shows in almost every movie he's made." There was a hot minute after the Weinstein story broke, when Dylan Farrow wrote about the assault for the NYT, during which actors pulled out of Allen's movies, but otoh this seemed to be the prevailing (and socially acceptable!) sentiment among many actors, especially those who had worked with Allen: https://twitter.com/AlecBaldwin/status/953260953096900608 I really hope that "Allen vs. Farrow" finally is the nail in this fucker's coffin.
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Feb 27, 2021 17:56
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Aruan posted:you quoted an opinion piece that starts with "my guess". i don't see anyone leaping to the defense of cuomo. like, where are people defending cuomo, outside of twitter comments? democrats are now calling for cuomo to resign. i don't know if cuomo is done because ny machine politics, but i do think its a significantly different situation than biden. Yes, in a thread talking about our society's take on sexual harassment, opinions in major media outlets like the NYT are relevant. This isn't USPol. What's your point in saying that Cuomo's situation is "significantly different" from Biden's? Are you defending Cuomo or Biden with that comment? Who's the "lesser evil" to women from your POV? This sort of pubic hairsplitting, so to speak, is one of the more toxic elements of discourse on the topic.
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Mar 2, 2021 18:41
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Sodomy Hussein posted:The article is essentially speculation, not what Democrats are actually doing. It also recommends they force him out. Good; he needs to be forced out, as does every other person in power who uses that power to sexually harass others. I'd still like Aruan to respond to my post, especially given their other hot takes throughout this thread. eta: Cuomo had plenty of non-sexpest competition in the form of governors--49 of them!--and the vast majority of them handled the pandemic better than Cuomo did, although it's harder to find governors who protected nursing-home residents, rather than the for-profit owners. Willa Rogers fucked around with this message at 21:50 on Mar 2, 2021 |
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Mar 2, 2021 21:47
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Man, watching the Bikram docu on Netflix with Jackie Lacey declining to press rape charges followed by watching ep 3 of Allen vs. Farrow sure has me wondering when the rich & powerful will face any consequences no matter how heinous their actions.
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Mar 8, 2021 05:35
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How are u posted:The May 2020 polling that I linked earlier in this thread indicated that, at that time, 20% of Democrats believed Reade at all. I doubt that number has grown in the interim. You're probably not going to have a productive conversation about Joe Biden being a rapist with folks who flat-out don't believe it. Of course it hasn't grown; I'm sure the no. of Republicans who were polled & thought Trump was a rapist hasn't grown over time, either. That's no reason to not name & shame rapists in public office, and there's no moral superiority in being part of an incorrect majority. People once believed that Woody Allen was a fine, upstanding filmmaker who was wronged by a jealous partner, but that tide has certainly changed over time, as it should. People once believed that Monica Lewinsky was a tramp. People once believed that Pedo Island was a conspiracy theory. People once believed a lot of things and their beliefs changed over time. A facet of moral clarity is taking a stand against bad things whether others believe in those things, or that those things are bad, at that time, as is taking a stand against bad things when it's politically inconvenient or uncomfortable to do so.
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Mar 9, 2021 23:32
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How are u posted:I didn't say the OP shouldn't attempt to have the conversation if it's something they feel they should do. The OP did express surprise at the severity of the way they were shut down by their family, and I was just highlighting that the polling (unfortunately such old polling) indicates that's probably going to be a common response. You were advocating lesser-evilism for rapists & "gotta hope things just change on their own" upthread so I apologize if I misinterpreted your prior post as "time to wrap it up, rapist-haters; public opinion says that calling out rapists in office is for losers."
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Mar 10, 2021 00:08
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The Oldest Man posted:https://twitter.com/harrysiegel/status/1369802372516560897?s=20 Are Schumer & Gillibrand still reserving their opinions until an investigation is finished?
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Mar 11, 2021 21:59
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I think some strongly worded statements from NY's two U.S. senators might do the trick.
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Mar 11, 2021 23:06
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socialsecurity posted:So your plan is to harass everyone until what 51% of the country writes in a third party? Because there were 2 choices for President on election day last year, yes the primary should of gone differently but election day it was either Trump or Biden. On the other hand, as we talk about moving forward, we can examine what it means preemptively pre-elect a rape apologist in '24 & '28 as the default dem party ticket, and whether that rape apologist should face any challengers, even if the default defense of the candidate will be that she is a woman of color. (And by rape apologist I don't mean just stanning for one's rapist boss but also letting priests get away with rape in California.) It may take Dems losing an election or two before they realize that it should be toxic to run as a rapist, or an apologist for rapists, but if that's the only way to get through to them it's far preferable imo than making excuses for rapists to take office for the next decade, whether the excuses arise out of lesser-evilism, party pragmatism, or tribalism.
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Mar 12, 2021 18:21
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How are u posted:Reasonable to call for his replacement, but I definitely can't see how it would work in practicality. Would you 25th him? Pressure him to resign? I can't see either of those options building up enough support and pressure to actually work. "Having to do the most important budget ever" is Cuomo's excuse for not resigning.
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Mar 15, 2021 21:42
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I watched the 4th & final ep of Allen vs. Farrow last night and a good segment of it was devoted to the press & Hollywood's dismissal of the abuse as "jilted wife goes after one of America's greatest artists." It was interesting to see the parallels between that and the dismissal of Reade's claims by the media & Democrats. At least many people in H'wood ended up taking back their prior defense of Allen, thanks to Dylan Farrow calling out their asses in 2018 after Weinstein's case hit. silicone thrills posted:You and me? We can't. Our elected leaders should but they suck poo poo so this is where we live. With a rapist in the presidency. And a rape apologist waiting in the wings to take over, to boot. I don't think Biden has a prayer of being impeached, but the fact that his presumed successor covered up child-molesting priests as AG should certainly be an argument for her facing primary challengers when her time comes.
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Mar 15, 2021 22:57
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Crosby B. Alfred posted:What I'm saying is that, if Franken didn't resign and asked for an investigation I think that would have been also acceptable. Given the circumstances surrounding the story I don't think he should have been pushed out by Democratic leaders. Keep in mind that at that time, it had been recently disclosed that members of Congress who'd been accused of sexual harassment & sexual assault were "accountable" only to secret congressional tribunals; it could me that the MoC who urged him to resign were knowledgable about additional accusations and charges. (Speaking of which, it's pretty appalling that to this day we have no knowledge of the accusations & outcomes contained within those secret tribunals. Would love to know if our current president, as well as the current MoC, ever faced such inquiries, but the press never found it newsworthy to query for either him or other former/sitting members of Congress.) The Oldest Man posted:The group had just emerged from a frantic effort to respond to allegations that Cuomo’s office had deliberately undercounted covid-related deaths in New York nursing homes. They were “putting that to bed, and then she pipes up. And then it’s sort of a big scramble,” the person with direct knowledge of the effort told me. lol, this graf does a lot of heavy-lifting irony-wise. "Let's put those dead seniors we killed 'to bed'."
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Mar 19, 2021 18:03
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Crosby B. Alfred posted:What I'm saying is that, if Franken didn't resign and asked for an investigation I think that would have been also acceptable. Given the circumstances surrounding the story I don't think he should have been pushed out by Democratic leaders. A pending investigation had already been announced at the time he resigned--but he still chose to resign rather than face an inquiry. eta: Crosby B. Alfred posted:If Franken had pushed back asking for an investigation, I would have supported that. I think many folks jumped the gun way too soon. A pending investigation had already been announced at the time he resigned--but he still chose to resign rather than face an inquiry. etaa: quote:I believe him resigning was acceptable but if he asked for an investigation I think that would be acceptable as well. Even though I believe that investigation would have likely have led to his departure. A pending investigation had already been announced at the time he resigned--but he still chose to resign rather than face an inquiry. Willa Rogers fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Mar 19, 2021 |
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Mar 19, 2021 18:05
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lol at the redbaiting done under the guise of concern about Reade's safety. I'm sure she could blink out some SOS McCain-style if she's being held captive by the Russkies.
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Mar 23, 2021 18:45
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How are u posted:I think there would be if more women came out with accusations of rape. Cuomo is up to what, six or seven or eight accusations of harassment now? There's no guarantee of justice in Cuomo's case, but there's certainly a fight happening to try and enact some justice.  Nothing's likely to happen to Cuomo, either.
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Mar 24, 2021 01:59
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Crosby B. Alfred posted:https://twitter.com/axios/status/1371225627160932353?s=20 counterpoint: https://twitter.com/jessemckinley/status/1371491122653102081
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Mar 24, 2021 03:48
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Pentecoastal Elites posted:This really is it, and why we were treated to pages of "well technically"s and "sure it was inappropriate, but"s: some people understand politics to primarily be the actions undertaken by a government or within a government. Politics is the thing Joe Biden does when he signs an EO or congress passes a bill and everything down the chain: advocates, lobbyists, procedural processes, etc. etc. The only real meaningful interaction any "regular" person can have with this realm is their vote. It's so important because it actually means something and does something, even if it's a small thing, and because of that some part of the actions and responsibilities of the people or parties you vote for is invested in you. They are there because of you, after all. This post is a masterpiece, and explains so much about liberals, even beyond the issue waving away sexual assault, because it's extremely applicable to other wave-aways.
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Apr 12, 2021 22:59
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Lester Shy posted:Every election I can remember has been "the most important election of our lives." You can certainly make a case that this was actually true in 2020, but do you imagine that it won't also be true in 2024 and beyond? Do you think the GOP nominee will be less of a fascist than Trump (assuming it's not just Trump again)? I can understand this rationale, but it can easily be used to paper over any and all Dem failings because they'll always be facing off against a Republican. Yeah. 
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Apr 12, 2021 23:02
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Rust Martialis posted:It was a choice of poo poo sandwiches. Handsy Joe versus Grab-em-by-the-Trump. Reade's contention is that Biden literally grabbed her by the pussy. One man bragged about it; the other actually did it.
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Apr 13, 2021 18:56
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socialsecurity posted:Are you saying that Trump's sexual assault accusers are lying? No; I'm pointing out the absurdity of handwaving Reade's accusation as Biden being "handsy."
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Apr 13, 2021 19:16
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Bumping the thread bc I came across this askreddit thread about women's experiences with "creeps" and I was struck by just how many women were assaulted & harassed as young teens. Also, I'm now p. certain that Cuomo will never be impeached, either for his nursing-home massacres or his sexual assaults. He might step down if James's reports are damning, but there's no way the NY Dems are going to shine a light on his scuzziness through impeachment hearings. (And their vow to only impeach him if they can do it without needing GOP votes proves that.) Most likely, imo: He'll decline to run again next year and instead get a federal appointment under Biden. Willa Rogers fucked around with this message at 17:12 on May 2, 2021 |
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May 2, 2021 17:10
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Fister Roboto posted:Powerful people on both sides of the aisle learned from Trump that all they have to do is say "nah" to literally any allegation, and people will eventually stop caring about it. There is no downside. "I did not have sexual relations with that woman."--The guy who has been invited to speak at every DNC convention since uttering those words.
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May 3, 2021 06:21
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The NYT had an update on the parallel state & legislative investigations into Cuomo:quote:ALBANY, N.Y. — Four women who have accused Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo of sexual harassment have received subpoenas to testify under oath, the latest indication that the state attorney general’s investigation into Mr. Cuomo’s behavior has entered a critical phase. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/15/nyregion/cuomo-sexual-harassment-investigation.html I'm sticking with my prediction that Cuomo's gonna run the clock on this.
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May 17, 2021 20:06
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some plague rats posted:Cuomo has already gotten away with it at this point, hasn't he. James is coming out with her report results by the end of summer; she's only examining the harassment charges. The assembly's investigation is taking longer, because it includes the nursing-home fuckups, and will prolly be slow-walked till Cuomo announces whether he'll run for another term. I don't think he will.
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May 19, 2021 02:25
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