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Jimbot
Jul 22, 2008



WE LIVE IN A SOCIETY

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Jimbot
Jul 22, 2008



Neurolimal posted:

I've been mostly agnostic about Snyder, but months of hype leading up to this line is genuinely hilarious

Maybe it's a Raimi-Venom thing where he really doesnt give a poo poo about the Joker

I mean, people are focusing on the line and just laughing at it without realizing that this is a Joker from Bruce's subconscious (this is a dream sequence/premonition, in his own words). So this is how Batman sees the Joker and it's legit amazing. It's a perfect joke referencing a meme instead of just putting it in there like you'd see in any other film.

Jimbot
Jul 22, 2008



Neurolimal posted:

If there's anything that I don't miss reading, it's bizarre audience profiling from people with no psych degree but a lot of sensitivity

E: to be less of a top-of-page shitpost: I dont buy "people hate Snyder because he's too REAL for them" takes at all, never had since they started showing up post-BVS. People loved [2/3rds of] the Nolan trilogy, Wonder Woman isn't that divergent from Snyder's tone, Joker is a very miserable movie and everyone loves it. There's clearly more going on than "Snyder hurts the sheeples feelings".

Difference being that those weren't directed by Zack Snyder. People don't like him for some reason and there's a reason why folks mockingly post about the Randian Objectivist poo poo - there's an industry of hot-takes about the filmmaker's politics from youtubers, bloggers and the like. Yeah, psycho-analysis of people not liking the film in general terms isn't good form, but people do it to Zack Snyder and his fanbase all the time. But also keep in mind that "not my superman" talking point was a thing because that's what it boiled down to. When the Snydercut was announced you had a lot of people talking about rewarding a toxic fanbase in the same tone as they'd talk about Trump both-siding literal neo-nazis and Antifa. All fanbases have bad apples and I wouldn't lump TLJ fans with the same Star Wars fans that were pieces of poo poo to the actresses who starred in that film. You can see why people get defensive when people do that.

All just feel like caveats to rationalize the main point of "I did not like this adaptation of this character". The reason why the discourse is so lovely is because of overzealous Zack Snyder fans on social media and people profiling the filmmaker as some super Objectivist Fascist. Things would be a whole lot more pleasant if those two groups understood that not everyone has to like their film/filmmaker and it's okay to understand that this adaptation isn't for you and to move on. A lot of criticisms at this point have devolved into meme so if you engage in good faith chances are you'll just get some meme in return expecting to understand "why it's bad" or whatever.

Jimbot
Jul 22, 2008



ImpAtom posted:

Have you ever heard of The X-Men? Being an outsider who is rejected by society but having the power to ignore that is totally a power fantasy. Even the melodrama and angst that goes with it is part of the fantasy. If it wasn't then nobody would want to be any of the X-Men, even ignoring the fact the majority of them are superpowerful supermodels.

It'd call it privilege more than a power fantasy. But I'd argue he's not empowered in those scenes. He's physically strong, yes, but the commentary is shown to beat him down. If it were a power fantasy then he'd go for a fun fly, all smiles, to some uplifting music. He has the power to ignore it but doesn't. This is why I really do reject these Objectivist readings because they're antithetical to the visual language being used.

Schwarzwald posted:

For the record, if we do want to discuss a superhero film that features graphic prisoner abuse, the Wachowski Sibling's V for Vendetta is right there.

It does lead up to a badass scene of him standing in its burning ruins yelling in a primal fury.

And yeah, I wish Leto wasn't in it and I say this as someone who dug that adaptation of the Joker. He should have been recast. It's disappointing because he replaced that one dipshit with Tig Notaro in Army of the Dead. Not much you can do with Ezra Miller because all that was shot already but if there's a sequel or a Flash film, I hope he gets replaced.

Jimbot
Jul 22, 2008



Listen here, if you don't think Cadbury milk chocolate isn't the best chocolate then you're no good pieces of filth. If you think Hershey's is the best then you're an Objectivist, objectively!

Jimbot
Jul 22, 2008



In Man of Steel it certainly is but I don't think it glamorizes his power in Batman v Superman.

Jimbot
Jul 22, 2008



Ayn Rand's life story would make for the best and most entertaining mockumenery ever conceived. Her entire life is just a big dose of dramatic irony. She lived off the welfare state while claiming it was supreme evil and got super pissy when her boytoy started sleeping around, following the tenants of her broken, toxic philosophy. It's glorious. It's no wonder why failsons and daughers love her philosophy so much because she was like the ur-faildaughter, except she didn't quite fail upwards as much as they did.

Jimbot
Jul 22, 2008




This doesn't work because his design is better than anything in that franchise.

Jimbot
Jul 22, 2008



Barreft posted:

I've just never seen such slavish loyalty to one person. The Snyder poo poo just reminds me of Trump/Elon/Roberts idol worship. Like I'm sure there's many out there defending Joss Whedon as well, which is just as weird.

e: eh

The anti-fandom is a whole lot worse. Unlike the people you mentioned (I'm honestly surprised you didn't include Hilter in there for some godwin bingo), Zack Snyder, at worse, makes films that you won't like. The effect on the average person is next to nothing - some lost time. So people actively hating on him and caring about his fandom are a whole lot weirder to me. So much time and effort wasted on someone who, ultimately, doesn't matter. He's not influencing or enacting policy that effects millions of people. He's just directing films. Little do you know that if the anti-fandom weren't so loving weird about hating this guy then people wouldn't be out there defending him as much. They'd just be discussing his films like any other fan of any other director would.

Like more than half of the discourse around him is negative. It's like with the alt-right wackos's constant complaining about Rian Johnson or JJ Abrams or Paul Feig. Actually, I think the usual suspects in that circle moved on after the first month. Next perceived loss in the culture war to complain about.

Jimbot fucked around with this message at 04:43 on Feb 16, 2021

Jimbot
Jul 22, 2008



Gatts posted:

Whedon did Avengers. Ergo proxy victor tango foxtrot same success. They also thought they were meeting all the complaints people had. You have to think like a business person.

These are probably the same people who thought selling WB's share in Joker was a good bet then it went on to make over a billion dollars.


Bunch of geniuses at WB!

Jimbot
Jul 22, 2008



Don't worry. With this release is the only time anyone will ever give a poo poo about aspect ratio. No one talked about it before and no one will talk about it after this release.

Jimbot
Jul 22, 2008



I actually took a look at the trailer on the HBOMax app for the first time and it looks really good in pillarbox. You can really see that they framed each shot with that aspect ratio in mind.

I don't think I can remember any modern releases that uses this. I'm all for this sort of stuff.

Jimbot
Jul 22, 2008




"Me" in this instance is youtuber Hbomberguy.

Jimbot
Jul 22, 2008



Saw the VOD. I'm looking forward to it even more now. A shame he seems to think that a sequel of sorts has basically a near zero chance of happening, but that's probably him trying not to give the fanbase any kind of false hope. I'd love for him to finish off his planned stuff so we can get some closure to all this.

Jimbot
Jul 22, 2008



I rather have a movie.

Jimbot
Jul 22, 2008



Yeah, I'm not a comic person so that'd be a bust for me - couldn't care less.

Jimbot
Jul 22, 2008



https://film.avclub.com/zack-snyders-justice-league-ends-on-massive-cliffhange-1846373611

What is with these people? "I'm going to report on this event with most snarky, condescending and unpleasant manner possible!"

Why are a subsection of people who dislike these films so completely unpleasant? You like what you like so could you at least write with the knowledge that some people out there like these films and don't need to have their yums yucked?

Jimbot
Jul 22, 2008



I wonder how long we'll have to wait for a blu-ray release. Gonna watch on HBOMax for sure but I want some uncompressed visuals and audio!

Jimbot
Jul 22, 2008



https://twitter.com/ZackSnyder/status/1366799124847230980

Jimbot
Jul 22, 2008



The only people who are going to be really surprised by the Snyder cut are the people who denied it existing and/or people who think it'll be the exact same movie with a few different scenes and more consistency between scenes. That's not to say people who followed the development of this thing won't be but I think they have a better idea of what this is compared to the people who poopoo'd it or simply didn't care.

Jimbot
Jul 22, 2008



People who say they liked the soundtrack of the theatrical cut are sus as heck. It's one thing to say you didn't hate the film but there's nothing good about that soundtrack. It was rushed trash. I'm the first one to go on about the subjectivity of art and how there isn't any objectively terrible art but boy, does that soundtrack make it really hard to defend that stance.

Jimbot
Jul 22, 2008



The whole "I see the Snyder cultists found this" thing is so prevalent and predictable at this point that someone made a bot account that posts each instance of someone posting extremely inflammatory, baity remarks about Snyder or his films then acting all "surprised_pikachu.jpg" that hardcore fans respond.

Edit: That bingo cards reminds me I'm going to ignore the discourse for a few weeks and just enjoy this film that probably would have never seen the light of day.

Edit 2: Also I'd have a space for "the theatrical cut was better" and/or "It was a little better than the theatrical cut but still a poor (superhero) film".

Jimbot fucked around with this message at 19:44 on Mar 2, 2021

Jimbot
Jul 22, 2008



If anything, that account is a good reason to avoid twitter altogether. Those :psyduck: tweets are over dumb punchyman films. Imagine what kind of amazing, nuanced takes they have about things that actually matter.

Jimbot
Jul 22, 2008



https://twitter.com/screenrant/status/1366561575793012736

Jimbot
Jul 22, 2008



Yeah, I didn't like Rise mainly because of the politics of it. The movie has a fantastic score and some really spectacular set-pieces but from Nolan's trilogy I liked Begins best.

Jimbot
Jul 22, 2008



Yeah, I don't care for the film overall still but as I've grown older I've put less importance on logic and just let the film wash over me and go with whatever flow it has. It helps make my criticisms less nitpicky.

Jimbot
Jul 22, 2008



VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:

WB doesn't really want any kind of campaign surrounding ZSJL to succeed. Note that they have the same anonymous WB execs leaking "we still hate this it still sucks" messaging to the usual suspects.

Sounds like sour grapes. Probably the same losers who thought the theatrical cut was going to make them billions or thought selling their stake in The Joke was a smart move.

Jimbot
Jul 22, 2008



I knew something was wrong behind-the-scenes with Justice League when they started pandering to the worst and most vocal critics. Wasting all the money flying them out there and giving them set tours sure helps that version of the film.

I'm starting to have to mute people on Twitter because they're getting all smug and gatekeeper-y about the Snydercut. "People invested so much of themselves into this thing they're going to like this film even if it's the worst thing ever! It's so bizarre!" without any hint if irony. I was tempted to respond with "Yeah, it's almost as bad the people who invested so much of themselves into hating this thing. So much time and energy just wasted hating something and trying to ruin the fun of others. It's really sad." But it wouldn't have amounted to anything productive.

Jimbot fucked around with this message at 16:48 on Mar 5, 2021

Jimbot
Jul 22, 2008



Megaman's Jockstrap posted:

That weird period of 2013 - 2017 where clusters of critics just went off the deep end (and I don't necessarily mean about Snyder, they would kook out over all kinds of stuff). Remember when Film Crit Hulk was a thing?

You mean you don't like reading entire paragraphs written in ALL CAPS?! What an awful, obnoxious gimmick.


John Wick of Dogs posted:

I like some movies that are probably bad

Jupiter Ascending
Valerian

In the 2000s film criticism went from "I didn't like this movie" to "gently caress you. gently caress this movie. gently caress this director. What a piece of poo poo."

It's why I start saying "I don't like it" instead of "it's bad" because it's more productive to do that then explain why you don't like it rather than explain why subjective matter makes something bad. I save "it's bad" for poo poo that matters and is actually bad (like Zack Snyder movies!!!!!!!!!).

Jimbot
Jul 22, 2008



Megaman's Jockstrap posted:

To be honest - and I'm not trying to be a doomposter here - I'm getting big time Heaven's Gate vibes from ZSJL. I too enjoy Heaven's Gate and think that it's overall a worthwhile film, but also I was alive and can remember when it came out and got relentlessly poo poo on for like, 2 years for being too big, too epic, too expensive for what it was. Seriously even Mad Magazine was trashing that film. Then once some time elapsed and people were able to approach it on its own terms it was considered pretty good and definitely very unique! Unfortunately, I think that's the arc that ZSJL is gonna take.

I see what you're saying but this is basically Zack Snyder's films in general. And honestly, it's only 4 hours because this film was likely to never happen so I imagine things he would have otherwise cut he decided to leave in there to get the most out of this film and give fans one last hurrah (personal hopes of sequels not withstanding). If the loudest vocal minority didn't rush to dethrone Prequel-era and post TLJ Star Wars fans as the worst and most obnoxious and if WB wasn't being run by spineless cowards, we'd probably be getting the third 2 hour 30 minute film of the franchise. I'm looking forward to this film a whole hell of a lot but I really don't need a 4 hour film, in any genre.

Roth posted:

I had a conversation with someone who said that they never watched 300 or Sucker Punch, but did see the Maggie Mae Fish video on Zack Snyder.

They still felt like they could post with authority that Zack Snyder is a misanthrope and an objectivist.

The best way to combat this stuff, in my opinion, is show them your favorite clips of any of his films. I honestly think the best clip to show anyone who gets their opinions from youtube weirdos is to show them the closet scene from Man of Steel. It never ceases to get me.

Jimbot
Jul 22, 2008



Yeah, seriously. If I didn't care about the Snydercut I'd be all "Why am I watching Justice League? I thought I chose Tom and Jerry."

These people need a life.

Jimbot
Jul 22, 2008



Why hasn't HBO put higher quality versions of these promos that are showing up on Twitter on to their youtube page? You'd think that'd be a no-brainer.

Jimbot
Jul 22, 2008



Mr. Apollo posted:

Iíve read a bunch of tweets and posts from Iraq and Afghanistan vets saying that line really hit them hard.

Yeah, Ray Fisher even retweeted a few of them.

Jimbot
Jul 22, 2008



AccountSupervisor posted:

Holy loving poo poo this movies gunna rule

No kidding. That one's probably my favorite promo to date.

Jimbot
Jul 22, 2008



It's well deserved. He had the GALL to make divisive films. Sexual deviancy, abuse and racism are all second fiddle to the ABSOLUTE MISHANDLING of nerd franchises.

Jimbot
Jul 22, 2008



I think she has a history of posting stuff like that to get clicks, yeah. I mean, it'd be rad to get some films that finish off what he started but I highly doubt he'll get Wonder Woman since WB already locked in Patty Jenkins for a third film. At least I remember reading that they did.

Just comes off as fanning (or capitalizing on) the flames of the whole RestoreTheSnyderverse stuff that has been trending today on twitter.

Jimbot
Jul 22, 2008



https://twitter.com/ray8fisher/status/1370091814414393349

Jimbot
Jul 22, 2008



Martman posted:

https://twitter.com/AaronCouch/status/1370091942042865670
https://twitter.com/RICHARDLNEWBY/status/1370091474084315141
This quote is really not very clear at all! If that's the only source then this seems like some genuinely bad journalism. The quote could easily be read to mean that Iris's role had to be reduced in Snyder's original cut but the Whedon version was the one that removed her entirely.

Cutting the romantic subplot means cutting the character entirely. Yes.

I wish I got into this industry as there seems to be no standards and words can mean anything!

Jimbot
Jul 22, 2008



CelticPredator posted:

Maybe. Maybe not.

But this is enough to show sheís a massive idiot on every single possible level. I donít know why Zack is talking to her

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9r8r_-vOVU

Holy poo poo. People like that are the reason why it's so hard to defend Snyder fans sometimes. Super overzealous, sure, but most have really good heads on their shoulders but then poo poo like this shows up and if anyone pointed to it you'd have no response. Doesn't help that Zack Snyder doesn't seem to do his homework on whose shows he appears on. Wish he did.

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Jimbot
Jul 22, 2008



Neurolimal posted:

Age of Ultron made buckets of money and was positively received for the most part, which makes that chip on his shoulder all the more weird. You'd think breaking 1 billion on two different movies as a middling TV director would soothe his ego.

That film has a 75% on RT. What on earth.

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