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Shame Boy
Mar 2, 2010

you just rotate 45 degrees op

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rotor
Jun 11, 2001

classic case of pineapple derangement syndrome
also i feel fairly certain that .... ugh, i cant belive i'm typing this ... I feel fairly certain your smart bulbs expose some sort of interface that there are already tools for and ... euugh ... you could probably just write an internal webapp for ... [vomits into wastepaper basket]

Expo70
Nov 15, 2021

Can't talk now, doing
Hot Girl Stuff

Buck Turgidson posted:

wtf why don't you just have normal lights?

non-smart ones don't reach the brightnesses i need. my eyes aren't very good.

it can do all sorts of colors but i don't ever use them as smart lights, i just use the dumb switch on the wall and i'm happy with that.

don't bet me wrong i'd like to use the other features but the distance between me and the outcome mentally is so long that i'd never bother unless it were a physical dial on a table or a wall.

my thumbs are pretty screwed up so typing or using phones is really difficult for me but for some reason i have no problem with a trackball. i've never understood why.

Expo70
Nov 15, 2021

Can't talk now, doing
Hot Girl Stuff

Shame Boy posted:

you just rotate 45 degrees op

Expo70
Nov 15, 2021

Can't talk now, doing
Hot Girl Stuff

rotor posted:

also i feel fairly certain that .... ugh, i cant belive i'm typing this ... I feel fairly certain your smart bulbs expose some sort of interface that there are already tools for and ... euugh ... you could probably just write an internal webapp for ... [vomits into wastepaper basket]

yeah unless i'm hooking up to a bunch of midi sliders or dials on the edge of my desk or something i can't see the point and honestly that just seems like a big waste of time and energy. lights go on. lights go off. that's enough. i'm content. happy as a clam.

edit: oh baby a triple (sorry)

Buck Turgidson
Feb 6, 2011

𓀬𓀠𓀟𓀡𓀢𓀣𓀤𓀥𓀞𓀬
whoa how much brighter are smart lights than regular lights?

also hell yes trackballs. i'm this close to making a ploopy

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



my office has a door to the garage and a door to the rest of the house. the door to the garage has a switch for an outlet. the other door does not. i put a swag light on the outlet, then wired the switched circuit to be always-on. then i attached a hue module to the switch to make the switch turn the bulb in the swag lamp on and off. then, for the no-switch door to the rest of the house, i got a stick-on dimmer. this created a three-way system that controls both the overhead light and my lamp. i do not use my phone for this

it would have been significantly more expensive to have an electrician run wire to the rest-of-house door, make a three-way, and then split the outlet so that one plug was always on. it would've been even more to have them install an actual ceiling fixture (though three way with overhead and an always-on outlet is the ideal situation that my setup almost replicated)

the fact that my desk lamp is controlled by the same switches is nice but not at all necessary. it's just that an extra bulb came with the stick on dimmer switch

rotor
Jun 11, 2001

classic case of pineapple derangement syndrome
i like the lights that have little tank circuits so you just touch em anywhere to turn em on and off

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



touch anywhere to turn on, just like rotors mom

rotor
Jun 11, 2001

classic case of pineapple derangement syndrome
the peel & stick LED tape that takes 12v is really good and makes making your own weird lamps really easy

i made my girl a nice light out of just a straight 1x4" cherry board just covered on one side with LEDs. Just bounce the light off the ceiling and its bright af

Expo70
Nov 15, 2021

Can't talk now, doing
Hot Girl Stuff

Achmed Jones posted:

touch anywhere to turn on, just like rotors mom

even your dad has a chance

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
the iphone and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race

rotor
Jun 11, 2001

classic case of pineapple derangement syndrome

Sapozhnik posted:

the iphone and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



Sapozhnik posted:

the iphone and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race

yeah that seems right

Expo70
Nov 15, 2021

Can't talk now, doing
Hot Girl Stuff

Sapozhnik posted:

the iphone and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race

Expo70 fucked around with this message at 04:28 on Jan 21, 2022

leper khan
Dec 28, 2010
Honest to god thinks Half Life 2 is a bad game. But at least he likes Monster Hunter.

Expo70 posted:

non-smart ones don't reach the brightnesses i need. my eyes aren't very good.

it can do all sorts of colors but i don't ever use them as smart lights, i just use the dumb switch on the wall and i'm happy with that.

don't bet me wrong i'd like to use the other features but the distance between me and the outcome mentally is so long that i'd never bother unless it were a physical dial on a table or a wall.

my thumbs are pretty screwed up so typing or using phones is really difficult for me but for some reason i have no problem with a trackball. i've never understood why.

How many lumens do you want? A quick Google revealed these 7500 lumen gems for that Fury of the Day Star look

https://www.amazon.com/ZP-Equivalen...42739284&sr=8-5

Expo70
Nov 15, 2021

Can't talk now, doing
Hot Girl Stuff

leper khan posted:

How many lumens do you want? A quick Google revealed these 7500 lumen gems for that Fury of the Day Star look

https://www.amazon.com/ZP-Equivalen...42739284&sr=8-5

i want to be nearly blinded according to other people's comparisons, but I want to be able to dim it without a dimmer switch being installed. we have a similar issue with the thermostat: anything lower than 21.5C and i'm icy cold. the entire uk is an icebox for me whenever i leave the house almost all year round. this climate is unacceptable. its like my blood just doesn't work when i'm cold.

Best Bi Geek Squid
Mar 25, 2016
i use physical switches for my lights and sleep in a big bed with my cat

Expo70
Nov 15, 2021

Can't talk now, doing
Hot Girl Stuff

Best Bi Geek Squid posted:

i use physical switches for my lights and sleep in a big bed with my cat

All my brain heard



i have a doggo. he is a very good boy.

----

here are fun papers!

https://cogsci.mindmodeling.org/2015/papers/0377/paper0377.pdf

https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/3025453.3025721

https://erikdemaine.org/papers/Tetris_COCOON2003/paper.pdf

i think its pretty fun because tetris is not only NP-hard, but no polynomial time algorithm can be shown to consistently solve it, yet humans sneakily found a way and at the highest levels of play the bottlenecks aren't future knowledge or randomness of selection, but latency of input.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_tmFUWu9bI&t=27s

in classic tetris rules, you can't brute-force and stack search, so you have to with forward knowledge already know not only where you're putting the next pieces several moves deep based on the probability of their appearances but also why you are putting them into those positions based on your strategy (eg, are you performing burndown or working for a tetris)

I get that this seems impressive, but he's limited to finite input strategies like DAS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2xCQT0BUcw

if you play the pad like a guitar by drumming your fingers on the back, you're dumping inputs at high speed and you can go up to 4x faster than other players.

often, its not the decision demands human suck at, but its the precision and the time sensitivity demands, due to the nature of inputs.

i think that's really interesting. i get I already posted *some* of this but i'm asking because I want to know what examples of these problems you guys know of -- games or otherwise? one i really like is seeing people do crazy things with construction equipment. unsafe sure but still very impressive.

Expo70 fucked around with this message at 06:52 on Jan 21, 2022

PokeJoe
Aug 24, 2004

hail cgatan


i sleep in a big row with my "L" tetromino

Expo70
Nov 15, 2021

Can't talk now, doing
Hot Girl Stuff

PokeJoe posted:

i sleep in a big row with my "L" tetromino

wait, they make those!? you can really buy right hooks??? the ones i've all seen are really tiny and they don't make anything that's huge that you can just hug and sleep next to. that would make me so happy. kinda like a daki but not weird and squicky like the animoos. those things are so good for back pain but so shameful.

thinking about it, it wouldn't be very hard to modify two roll pillows and make a custom covering... i appreciate the idea, thanks!

rotor
Jun 11, 2001

classic case of pineapple derangement syndrome

leper khan posted:

How many lumens do you want? A quick Google revealed these 7500 lumen gems for that Fury of the Day Star look

https://www.amazon.com/ZP-Equivalen...42739284&sr=8-5

thats a whole lotta leds

Truman Peyote
Oct 11, 2006



Achmed Jones posted:

i use a kensington expert trackball and it's good

do trackballs work for shooters? i dont wanna get carpal tunnel but i do wanna get headshots in wolfenstein

rotor
Jun 11, 2001

classic case of pineapple derangement syndrome

Truman Peyote posted:

do trackballs work for shooters?

No.

rotor
Jun 11, 2001

classic case of pineapple derangement syndrome
like there will 100% be people who play their fave FPS with a trackball and think they're super good at it, but no, they dont work for FPSes.

PokeJoe
Aug 24, 2004

hail cgatan


I used to play TF2 with a trackball guy and he could only play pyro with any success at all

Truman Peyote
Oct 11, 2006



well carpal tunnel it is, I guess

rotor
Jun 11, 2001

classic case of pineapple derangement syndrome

PokeJoe posted:

I used to play TF2 with a trackball guy and he could only play pyro with any success at all

yep, same with qwtf. Its a pyro-only controller, and its not even good at it, it was very dependent on where he was on the map

Progressive JPEG
Feb 19, 2003

rotor posted:

you can even get The Clapper if ur too lazy to get up
the clap of my rear end cheeks keeps alerting the lights

Expo70
Nov 15, 2021

Can't talk now, doing
Hot Girl Stuff

rotor posted:

yep, same with qwtf. Its a pyro-only controller, and its not even good at it, it was very dependent on where he was on the map

really not a fan of FPS games due to the fact they saturate the fast-movement genre and tactical genre yet they have an input-stop/timing skillcheck that's annoyingly difficult to meet if you don't play FPS games a lot, or if you have some kind of injury.

i'm recently starting to realize that its only really a matter of time before ML will just be able to add controller feed after evaluating screen contents using only images soon to add corrections or overrides to player inputs and the point/click skillcheck will become meaningless and FPS games will need ballistics and trajectory information adding -- which in turn, is a thing you can probably estimate from screen contents in much the same way players do.

no anti-cheat device or network encryption in theory would be able to stop it, and it would cripple genres which depend on those kinds of skillchecks to the point where they would need to become part of the game's internal meta so players don't actually have direct control of those features anymore (eg, an aim-bot built into the game that has a deliberately calculated finite response speed and effectiveness that hard-limits what player inputs can actually do).

while not necessarily Human-Factors Engineering itself, it does show that skillchecks based on negative HFE-evaluations are probably going to be hit pretty hard in coming years by the democratization of these technologies on a level that anti-cheat can't defeat and I think that's pretty interesting.

games like TF2 might actually go away alltogether because of this stuff and it'll become a genre people remember more than they remember playing -- with anti-cheat unpatched flaws ruining even the most recent Halo game and that kinda blew up as a controversy.

its very interesting and I'm wondering if any such systems exist, because then game design is going to have to implement what amounts to a captcha in how it works, to saturate or distract the viewing systems which changes the cognitive load on players by adding noise, distortions and decision problems which pollute the speed of their gameloops.

i think games like Tarkov would be mostly unaffected, given they place enormous emphasis on positioning, movement and scenario evaluation but games like cod which have pretty low scenario variance will eat a fat one.


i'm a little reminded of the rhinemaiden experiment in the japanese acfa community, which was basically an ml given very finite netcode viewing that could make ps3 controller inputs that had deliberate delays to match those of a human and it still maximized and saturated in terms of its play capability very quickly -- to the point where the developer could just give it a set time-to-kill and then go sync a song to it for nicovideo lols

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EpQbYF3PRI&t=2s

the novelty though came about that because there was only one of it, and the guy using it was very sporting (it was like two gpus and two asics on a daughterboard running in a very streamlined computer which hotloaded an os and the results of its training-set into ram like those old bootable cds or something?), the players viewed it as a challenge and it forced them to re-evaluate their play based on a lot of the movement tech they were discovering.

this is what acfa usually looks like:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Cd_CBNE5CI
(recorded literally today)


this is what post-rhinemaiden acfa high-level play looks like, from the players who evaluated its movement techniques:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehKV72yMAOY
(keep your eyes on the radar in the upper right, that's what the player is doing -- its literally become a bullet-hell with very complex movement)

Yeah...

i think on some level fighting an entity with superhuman ability as novelty can be fun, but i think fps games are about to be in for a massive world of hurt once the kind of tensor core stuff we see in high end gpus trickles down to lazy people who want to go up on scoreboards, if this drat chip shortage bottoms out

pretty interesting to think about really, that positive technologies for hfe could become negative for gaming if unaccounted for

edit:
https://mspoweruser.com/user-vision-pro-has-been-shut-down-by-activision/

yep, it resulted in legal action. the genie is out of the bottle.


edit 2:
ngl, looking at footage of one, the indecision problem looks like it would create a ton of problems -- it needs biases and weights so it can settle on targets or you have decision paralysis where the settling time is shorter than the resolution time which results in a failure to commit or to ttk successfully with no sustained engagement - a problem you learn to deal with when designing fire control systems for simulation-genre games that use passive evaluation methods like this (eg, AC, as seen above has a passive fire control system which uses dot product/lookat inverse argmax biased by distance inferrence to find targets, and settles on whatever you open fire on until you let go)

i wonder how it'd be if you hooked it up to a tobii-4c and biased it against say, who's most-facing you or nearest (good signifiers of threat-immediacy)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=revk5r5vqxA&t=164s

edit 3:
man gently caress all the whining, i wanna see a game where everybody has these tools and the game design changes accordingly to accommodate it with longer ttks or only being able to use different ones at different times. fps about to get 2b2t'd right in the face.

current emotion: John Witherspoon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWkkQZMsT3I&t=10s

edit 4:
if anything, this is just evidence that the fps genre needs to evolve. this isn't a war anyone's going to win. i'm a bit reminded by the advent of bvr and missile combat in aircraft. its prisoner's fallacy with huge numbers, like how airbnb decimates towns due to its disruption of housing prices. genie is out of the bottle and even if you remove the middle-man, the proof of concept exists and this isn't going away.

that said... the response that there is a visual anti-cheat system in development which is supposed to use ML to discover human vs non-human-like behaviours is interesting. we have an arms-race.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOI9EkLsUm0

neato.

edit 5:
yup, right about tarkov. it spiked hard when stuff was kicking off.
pretty wild considering its a 2016 release i'd think?

https://twitchtracker.com/games/491931

it also now seems to have its own cheating problems so i'm guessing we're about to see inertia on this ride, then a drop over six to eight months? might be wrong idk

Expo70 fucked around with this message at 13:21 on Jan 21, 2022

Kernel Sanders
Sep 15, 2020

MononcQc posted:

I legitimately want to hear more about this

1) this was shortly after apple had released the og ipod and everyone was going bananas over “novelty” and “industrial design”. articles all
over we’re talking about how design was the new killer feature and it gave everyone in that department a gigantic ego.

2) the professors were all Jony Ive wannabes. one assignment was redesigning a common household appliance. everyone made “Homer Simpson’s car” versions of toaster and washing machines with touch screens and dial wheels and sensors. i actually did user research and made a microwave with one big button that added 30seconds at max power and was talked sternly to for not taking the assignment seriously.

3) real world limitations didn’t apply to these people as “design was king” and they sure as hell would stoop down to mucking around with actual implementation.

4) everyone looked like this

Kernel Sanders
Sep 15, 2020
I can’t believe I typed that out on my phone.

Expo70
Nov 15, 2021

Can't talk now, doing
Hot Girl Stuff

Kernel Sanders posted:

1) this was shortly after apple had released the og ipod and everyone was going bananas over “novelty” and “industrial design”. articles all
over we’re talking about how design was the new killer feature and it gave everyone in that department a gigantic ego.

2) the professors were all Jony Ive wannabes. one assignment was redesigning a common household appliance. everyone made “Homer Simpson’s car” versions of toaster and washing machines with touch screens and dial wheels and sensors. i actually did user research and made a microwave with one big button that added 30seconds at max power and was talked sternly to for not taking the assignment seriously.

3) real world limitations didn’t apply to these people as “design was king” and they sure as hell would stoop down to mucking around with actual implementation.

4) everyone looked like this

i think one thing these people would desperately benefit from is being forced to actually make prototypes that test usability to see how it feels and then to have people review those prototypes and bitch about them and see their doodles and sketches and 3d models fall flat on their stupid over-designed faces

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
you do do that in pluotcrat school, fwiw

Fishbus
Aug 30, 2006


"Stuck in an RPG Pro-Tour"

Expo70 posted:

i think one thing these people would desperately benefit from is being forced to actually make prototypes that test usability to see how it feels and then to have people review those prototypes and bitch about them and see their doodles and sketches and 3d models fall flat on their stupid over-designed faces

I regularly use the phrase "The design is perfect until you try it", to other designers to drill down the importance of actual users trying to understand what the hell they've made instead of squirreling away and theorycrafting for a month in isolation.

Expo70
Nov 15, 2021

Can't talk now, doing
Hot Girl Stuff

Fishbus posted:

"The design is perfect until you try it"

leper khan
Dec 28, 2010
Honest to god thinks Half Life 2 is a bad game. But at least he likes Monster Hunter.
Visual anti cheat just results in using a standard form of ML to create a bot. It's just making a GAN.

This whole thing is only a problem because the industry stopped supporting community servers. Players can no longer ban cheaters or chuds, and can no longer host a server whose purpose is to debate the best toppings on pizza (anchovies + pineapple 🍍 🐟, obv).

Expo70
Nov 15, 2021

Can't talk now, doing
Hot Girl Stuff

leper khan posted:

Visual anti cheat just results in using a standard form of ML to create a bot. It's just making a GAN.

This whole thing is only a problem because the industry stopped supporting community servers. Players can no longer ban cheaters or chuds, and can no longer host a server whose purpose is to debate the best toppings on pizza (anchovies + pineapple 🍍 🐟, obv).

is there like, a reason they stopped supporting community servers or peer to peer?

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
service games can't do their thing if you selfhost, can they?

the reason video games have basically become a footnote to the rest of the software industry is that a dollar of annual recurring revenue is worth a ridicukous multiplier to a dollar of annual nonrecurring revenue, and video games, being naturally almost entirely b2c, have reliably had miserable times getting any buyin for this crap. businesses love software as a service: consumers dont.

bob dobbs is dead fucked around with this message at 14:19 on Jan 21, 2022

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Expo70
Nov 15, 2021

Can't talk now, doing
Hot Girl Stuff

bob dobbs is dead posted:

service games can't do their thing if you selfhost, can they?

oh right, of course. players would just bypass all of that service bs.

maybe service games should become less of a thing idk

bob dobbs is dead posted:

the reason video games have basically become a footnote to the rest of the software industry is that a dollar of annual recurring revenue is worth a ridicukous multiplier to a dollar of annual nonrecurring revenue, and video games, being naturally almost entirely b2c, have reliably had miserable times getting any buyin for this crap. businesses love software as a service: consumers dont.

yeah, i'm seeing that the demand for growth has software as a service pushed in places people don't want it too (looking at you maxon, adobe - gently caress what you guys did to medium and zbrush).

maybe if they want me to buy their cool software repeatedly they should make it good and deliver on the features people actually want

zbrush, fix your drat ui. its awful. i nearly brought it until i tried it and then i promptly vomited in my deep space underwater idiot helmet. seriously how the hell do you screw it up so bad. its hfe/ux GORE.

Expo70 fucked around with this message at 14:39 on Jan 21, 2022

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