Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Arghy
Nov 15, 2012

I wouldn't have uninstalled TW2 if i knew CA was gonna release a beta and take a month to fix WH3. You'd think they would have learned from vortex and not put so much effort into this stupid game mode that is literally a place holder while they finish IE which everyone wants.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Arghy
Nov 15, 2012

Onmi posted:

I wouldn't mind if the Realm of Chaos was good, the game being broken AND Realm of Chaos being not-fun is the issue.

I enjoyed the towers being really stupid on the cathay gate maps, you know a map that you're guaranteed to play multiple times as cathay. All it would have took is for someone to go oh hey these towers have loving terrible LoS, let's just put them on ugly raised platforms for now until we have time to fix these janky rear end maps. The docking spots being horrible is also a big wut like why add the feature if you're not gonna take the time to realize how terrible the arc of fire is.

Big triple A games releasing games like 1 man indie games and charging you out the rear end for it. Enjoy these rushed features we'll hopefully get time to address them in between making more rushed features to charge you for. I can't wait for modders to fix half these problems making you wonder wtf is going at CA until you realize that it's likely GW charging out the rear end for their IP forcing them to be understaffed.

Arghy
Nov 15, 2012

Onmi posted:

The best way to handle the walls is to build 4 walls before the battle blocking off all but the center path to the centre capture point. If you don't block off every route AND you do it before the battle begins the enemy will not see them as walls they can destroy.

Haha yep saw that legend video where he did that which fixes that map a ton but still it's dumb that there's no inherently defender friendly maps. A karak should literally have 1 path, you're attacking a loving fortress not a random city that became a fortress as an after thought. I can't wait for modders to fix it so the central VP controls all the towers so the attackers must trudge under fire or just attack each tower.

We'll have a properly working game next time they launch a paid DLC.

Arghy
Nov 15, 2012

A karak will only fall to grimgor, he must be stopped.

Arghy
Nov 15, 2012

dogstile posted:

This sounds so loving boring though?

I mean its fine if you're skarbrand or whatever i guess

You block off the 4 side entrances to the final capture point funneling the AI through the central path having a grand battle instead of constantly trying to move units because the AI is flanking you non stop. It's a siege not maneuver warfare on an open field.

Still don't understand why we don't have the buildings for the battle map, an artillery heavy faction would drat well construct palisades and earthen embankments to get clear lines of fire.

Arghy
Nov 15, 2012

Edgar Allen Ho posted:

The GCCM Karaz-a-Karak map is (was?) one path with giant walls that you can put siege on. It's kinda hilariously busted.

Did they make a new one? They had that kinda poorly made one with the hilarious giant gate that just had a raised platform on the far left that could have arty but they'd just get hosed by flyers unless you wasted some units to defend them because it was so far that unit would never make it back to the fight. The karak ungor map is a great example of how you can have defensible maps but they could be taken though it's really buggy. The best dawi map is that zhufbar settlement by the vampire counts, tons of chokes with raised platforms to shoot off of yet the player can easily take or defend it with both factions just by using their strengths. I've held it against 3 vampire stacks and taken it as vampires with 1 army against the garrison + a stack.

Helmsdeep is seriously the best example of how siege defenses should work. The defender should be encouraged to hold the entire defenses but the defenses should have a weakness an enemy army can exploit that'll force the defenders to fall back to a central keep. As an attacker you should be forced to out number the enemy or field a far better army and you should take casualties no matter what. All the current sieges in TW2 is cheesing the AI because it's not fun fighting these boring rear end maps. You should be encouraged to recruit an army of chaff to take major settlements where minor settlements aren't that hard.

Arghy
Nov 15, 2012

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBegny0ly0s
Well i mean he's right about me overthinking situations in a spiteful light.

Arghy
Nov 15, 2012

OwlFancier posted:

There's one of the WH3 dwarf maps that is almost just the GCCM map where there is a big dwarf city in a corner under a giant overhang, makes me wonder if they didn't look at the GCCM maps when designing them.

The marienburg TW3 map is lawsuit levels of similar to the GCCM version haha. It's good though they should be copying them because the GCCM maps are beautiful and i always fight them manually.

Panfilo posted:

Holy crap I just heard a hilarious way to capture Altdorf on turn 1 with Skrag:

1.) Use Come and Get it Maw offering at start

2.) Force March as close as possible to Altdorf. When not at war you can get much closer to cities on the map.

3.) Swap Skrag for another lord, which let's you switch out of force March. So long as you are directly adjacent to the city you can attack it immediately.

4.) In the battle, hold your entire army back on one side save for a unit of gorgers. Take those gorgers on the opposite side. AI will camp nearly their entire army in the very back corner. Use your siege ability to knock down walls and barricades. Gorgers have stalk and can capture control points and eventually one of the two main objectives (that will be unguarded). This let's you win the battle with ZERO CASUALTIES.

This is the most egregious example, but it occurred to me several other elements could be applied elsewhere (force March+war dec+immediate siege a risk, and/or effortlessly ganking major settlement with stalk). I'm sure they'll eventually get around to nerfing it, so enjoy it while you can.
There's a video of a streamer taking dawi settlement after settlement without fighting because the infantry was too slow to reach the main cap point by doing the same thing.

The best GCCM maps are the small one like the helmgart map before it become a fortress was loving amazing. The problem is the AI simply can't get much better so they should be figuring out the best map design for the AI then using that as a template while adding the extra poo poo purely for the player.

Arghy
Nov 15, 2012

The southern karak, azul i think it was had 2 layers of walls but no gates for the 2nd layer because the AI would try to bring rams and towers if you did. It's amazing to defend because it has a raised corner that can shoot at either section of the wall and you can station missile troops on the 2nd layer shooting over your melee troops holding the gates it's awesome. It's a map that plays to dawi strength and it loving should like that's why most maps suck rear end because they're all copy and pasted.

The old Helmgart was so loving awesome because you'd stick mortars by the church of sigmar then have blocks of halberds in the narrow streets--it's how men would defend their cities not some weird flat section with no LoS for a faction that relies on gunpowder. The tiered fortress maps addressed it somewhat but going forward that needs to be done for every map.

Arghy
Nov 15, 2012

Once dawizhar gets added all sieges are gonna need a rework anyways because they'll have enough firepower to obliterate anything. They should add 2 maps to every settlement, hold the walls or fall back to the keep. The first map is more open and you'll get access to the wall towers being intended for you to fight them as they try to scale the walls. The second map is smaller and basically all choke points but very limited tower options intended for smaller armies defending against a superior force. You have to choose once the siege starts, holding the walls means you'll use up resources and will suffer attrition at the normal rate. Falling back is a pure defensive siege so that means reduced attrition and you'll hold out for longer.

This way you can choose some tactics and the garrison should be customizable to reflect this. Do you want a border city that will hold the walls and is basically a fort or do you want an interior city that relies on local armies to come to it's aid so it's designed to hold out in a siege. Generic garrisons are dumb and should be thrown in the bin, use a gold cost like in MP to build an army for each city tailoring it to that map. Using my fav dawi as an example, an interior city would be melee grinders with no powder units intended to fight in ranks. An exterior city would be great weapon and offensive infantry designed to hold walls with artillery for counter battery fire.

Add an option for big settlements where you can fight on both maps if you want giving you the option to wear down the enemy army then make a desperate stand on the keep map.

Arghy
Nov 15, 2012

Ideally the best design would be the make the capital garrison a literal army that's not on the battle map and make it so minor settlements can't be destroyed only abandoned. You can also salvage the growth from it to as the refugees flee back to the main city. Make it so it takes 2-3 turns to ransack it if you got defensive buildings and you can decide to muster the province garrison to lift the siege or defend the map. Minor settlements could literally just be defensive maps so you'd have an option of fighting or letting it go to fight the army at a more defensive area. Taking over a province would be you ransacking 1 minor settlement after another and the AI deciding whether or not it wants to initiate a battle. Instead of say 4 boring repetitive fights it would be 2 maybe 3 pitched battles then that's it.

You could enforce biomes way more by only having the option to occupy the settlement for a few turns while you ransack it if you couldn't occupy it. No more weird sprawling empires you'd just have ruins where your race can't colonize. It doesn't make sense that orks for example would colonize the northern wastes they loot and pillage then move on.

I'm likely gonna get into TW3 modding once IE comes out haha good implement my goddamn vision.

Arghy
Nov 15, 2012

Growth in anywhere but the main settlement isn't fun, granted some factions that are fast growing it makes sense like the empire and skaven but old and slow races should be reliant on main settlements. You'd still have growth but the main settlement would be the only thing that grew and the minor settlements would be upgraded depending on the main settlement. You could either have a system where you could spent growth points to upgrade minors or it's pure currency but the cap is the main settlement level. It doesn't make sense that the old races are building new things, they're just maintaining old things that they've built and lost.

It's not fun losing a minor settlement you've spent 10 turns growing because you stepped away. They should cost money true but they should be fun set pieces for battles rather than a nuisance and sacking them should be a more invested affair. If you wanted to burn a city to the ground it should take multiple turns otherwise it should just slowly damage the buildings. There's already a raiding stance so quick forays into enemy territory is a thing, sacking and looting should be more time investment because 1 turn sacks are loving dumb.

The simple fact is the AI is best in open field maps so you either redesign all the siege maps to work well with the AI or you only focus on the main settlements and turn the minor battles into defensive open field battles. Building cities is a huge part of a lot of races play styles just as destroying them is for others. The time investment is not balanced at all so you have this half rear end fix of making minor settlement sieges which can become very repetitive. Make minor settlements unique maps and major settlements really awesome siege maps but use the garrison from the major settlement for these maps.

Arghy
Nov 15, 2012

Staltran posted:

Skarbrand routinely razes multiple settlements a turn with just the LL stack, this would completely cripple the whole faction

The skarbrand and taurox campaigns are not balanced at all this would be a great fix for that. I remember just destroying an entire DE faction in a single turn as taurox because the AI was dumb and i'd have to routinely hold back just to get fun fights instead of auto resolving minor settlement battles. Waiting a turn to convert a settlement into ruins or 2 if they have defensive buildings wouldn't cripple a campaign. You'd need to wait for troops to heal anyways so you could defeat the army then replenish while you burn down a minor settlement.

I'd much rather fight big fleshed out province armies than the same boring minor settlement garrison that's if the AI even bothered to build walls otherwise you just auto resolve anyways. You'd have less auto resolve and less tedium with better and bigger set piece battles.

Arghy
Nov 15, 2012

Staltran posted:

The joke was that Arghy always calls them dawi, he even called chorfs dawizhar a couple days ago. I'm pretty sure that was the first time I ever saw that word

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BV8eF2LGVFg
Listen to the expert bardin to learn true dwarvish.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gssDOu7xyN4
Here's thorgrim also using dawi, clearly everyones abuncha knife ear players to not know what dawi means!

Arghy
Nov 15, 2012

Panfilo posted:

I've mentioned this before but they really ought to expand on the caravan mechanic because it was something they really did right in WH3.

Have Ogres Beastmen and Greenskins get a counterpart that involves intercepting caravans.

High Elves can do sea caravans but Dark Elves and Vampire coast has an anti version in their campaigns.

Dwarves can do underway caravans and Greenskins and Skaven can intercept them.

Adds a lot more of those tense little set piece battles giving you interesting rewards and an income source of income.

They should nerf trade and just give every faction the caravan mechanic while also allowing the end point faction to get some money too. Caravans make trading so much more immersive and fun.

Arghy
Nov 15, 2012

Ravenfood posted:

As much as I like the mechanic I think they should stay relatively rare and not expanded to everyone. One thing I like is that because they exist on the map, other factions can interact with them: if you want to raid them then by all means you can.

I wouldn't mind a seafaring variant if someone can get a good faction to give them too, just because that gives Vampirates and Dark Elves someone to pirate.

Lore wise the dawi and high elves have been sending caravans all over for thousands of years and the empire sends caravans to the tomb kings as well as cathay. The order factions getting it would make sense and like you said it would provide a ton of pillaging variety esp on the bigger IE maps. It'd be cool to see actual trade fleets going to the new world so instead of just empty oceans you'd have a crazy target rich environment and you could have really fun naval themed trade armies to actually use the sea battle maps. Themed caravans would be fun too like dawi to dawi would travel in underway stance and be a thematic build but dawi to human would be a mixed human/dwarf army. Gimme some goddamn slayers armed with pistols and a few units of maneaters with empire bombards. Vampire coast would be super fun to play with a vast naval black market caravan system where you had to build hidden coves before you could send the caravan. Vamp counts could be given some vampire coven buildings to get ready for neferata and you could send undead caravans to those.

When was the last time you played on a sea battle map in TW2?

Arghy
Nov 15, 2012

Ideally you want to remove the garrisons from minor settlements so you could remove the need to build siege equipment until the province army chooses to defend. This way you wouldn't need to worry about building siege equipment because it'd basically be an ability but then there would be trouble deciding what to do when the province army wants to defend now but that could be a decision that has to be made first so if/then: province army defends then normal siege map, province army declines then not a siege open the raze/sack UI.

The AI could be made to handle the province army pretty easy too because it could just go by auto resolve, does it think it could defeat the attacking army: yes then fight, no then hold to defend the major settlement.

Arghy
Nov 15, 2012

It'd be a great way to get rid of the tier 1 gold chevroned units, just sell em to passing caravans. I have a feeling that TW3 modding will surpass the game itself because you'd have such freedom and the giant map with all the different factions.

Arghy
Nov 15, 2012

Dandywalken posted:

Id like to sell you for 1 gold to a passing caravan, Arghy

It's going in the book, my book of TW3 suggestions.

Arghy
Nov 15, 2012

Dear god how do you make nurgle work, it just seems like really badly designed because 1 ranged unit will wreck your poo poo and there's not much you can do about it. I was down to pretty much all nurglings on turn 10 and the plagues were confusing while your heroes are stuck behind tech.

Arghy
Nov 15, 2012

Dramicus posted:

Bless modders. The workshop has been open only a few hours and about 80% of my annoyances with the game have been solved.



Yeah it's kinda insane how easy this poo poo is to fix but the question is what's stopping CA. It's most likely GW being douche bags and maybe demanding a portion of sales so they could refuse to let them put poo poo in for free when they could charge out the rear end for it.

Twigand Berries posted:

Plaguedrones are some of the best cavalry in the game. Even their descriptor describes them as cavalry. I just go heavy on them and anything ranged, even Tzeentch has no chance. Nurgle furies are garbage and a trap. Skip them and the flies are amazing.

Edit: Argy search my post history, I did a sort of Nurgle guide way back and I've only improved on it. I consistently get tier V by turn 35 without cheesing anything, just spreading the right plagues at the right time and knowing how to get infections.

Thanks i'll check it out, doing a kislev campaign atm.

I enjoy how the loving AI knows exactly when the rifts spawns and they coordinate attacks. A norscan army took 4-5 turns to go around some mountains to attack my far flung settlement on the same turn the rifts open just to slow me down then desperately threw other AI armies at me to ensure i couldn't get into the rifts first.

Arghy
Nov 15, 2012

Ravenfood posted:

Lol. Yeah, that's definitely what's happening it's not anything to do with trying hard to keep each monogod faction fairly unique from each other.

And no, they don't. You're seeing patterns there. The AI isnt smart enough to coordinate like that.

What you already have forsaken, furies, and spawn all being unique copies of each other that's not an issue at all. Giving each god a chosen and chaos warrior variant with unique flavor would have been insanely simple and no one would complain that a faction is getting units from it's army book. You can already do this by allying and building outposts in norscan factions.

Kanos posted:

If all of the god rosters had started with chaos warriors, chosen, and chaos knights people would have pitched a loving fit about how CA was selling lazy copy paste factions. They already got tons of poo poo for furies and chaos spawn and forsaken.
If they went the khorne route by giving them unique skins you could simply shut anyone who complained away in the deepest karak you could find.

I would have loved a loving line of cheap chaos warriors backed up by a few expensive demons for all my armies.

Arghy
Nov 15, 2012

Ravenfood posted:

Lol. Yeah, that's definitely what's happening it's not anything to do with trying hard to keep each monogod faction fairly unique from each other.

And no, they don't. You're seeing patterns there. The AI isnt smart enough to coordinate like that.

This is a lie, chaos undivided sat outside the province of praag for 2 turns and only came in when the rifts spawned. They had 2 full stacks and were steam rolling other order provinces but sat in clan moulder territory for 2 turns doing nothing while i rushed to get my main army back there but of course 6 full hostile stacks attacked at once as soon as rifts appeared. This might be the 2nd roar without a soul because i simply can't hold the loving tides at bay that decide to attack in concert with the roars.

A random skaven faction also sent 2 stacks that were out of LoS the entire time and only when the roar started did they enter my territory.

Arghy
Nov 15, 2012

Are you ready for my melt down trying to beat chorfs as dworfs? I lie awake at night imagining how my armies will fare against them.

Arghy
Nov 15, 2012

Panfilo posted:

They're gonna be like Dwarves but better in every way.

Just as devastating in ranged and artillery but better mobility with offensive melee units, magic, and likely some slave mechanic used to quickly build up their settlements. Plus superior hats.

I'm hoping they have expensive powerful artillery but with large hit boxes and vulnerable to counter battery fire while their powder will be more wide spread but shorter ranged. I'm still mad that kislev gets hybrid powder armed infantry before dawi because in the lore it's very common for important dawi officers to be armed with pistols and blunderbusses. Dwarf warriors with pistols being a T2 unit would be amazing while long beards stay as dedicated melee and you could add great weapon ironbreakers with pistols too. Change hammerers to something similar to aspiring champions, small model count but beefy stats and tons of support auras for lords. Let's face it the amount of spear armed missile units has increased so give loving thunderers and quarrelers charge defense vs large.

I can't wait for the outpost mechanic and hiring empire heavy cav and mortars to my dawi army--oof outriders with grenade launchers with engineers restocking ammo YES PLEASE.

Arghy
Nov 15, 2012

I love how doom stacking has gotten built into lords, katrin with abuncha super cheap ice guard and my bear squad is hilarious. Nurgle tried to waddle up to me and i just kept putting that big AE slow on the ground while my archers fired and i dropped huge vortex after vortex on them.

Arghy
Nov 15, 2012

litany of gulps posted:

I personally can't wait for the Chaos Dwarves to unleash their Chaos Thunderbarge, which will obviously be completely better than any regular Dawi Thunderbarge, on account of their superior technology, metallurgy, and magic.

Actually flying things was one of the few engineering fields that dawizhar fell behind but that was because they had insane flying fire creatures. I think lore wise they were also pretty much on par with the dawi in terms of metallurgy but they just had the need and slave labor to do things like mass producing plate armor. Zhufbar has steam drop hammers and they talk about how they're the ones who gave the empire the idea for the steam tanks by mass producing quality steel.

Panfilo posted:

Kislev's armored Kossars are kind of weird for their role though. An anemic short range attack with little ammo. It doesn't have much armor piercing and giving them +10% dmg/ammo upgrade doesn't improve much. The great weapon version gives up the silver shield making them even more difficult to use. So it's like a slightly lackluster T2 infantry with a pop gun.

Based on your idea, maybe dwarf warriors w/pistols are unlocked with Thunderers, being cost wise in line with quarrelers but sharing upgrades that Thunderers get. They'd be better in melee than Thunderers or quarrelers but have a weaker shorter ranged attack.

Thanes and lords get a skill unlocking a pistol attack which is functionally similar, and an aura effect that gives pistol units shoot while moving. Give the lords (and Belegar in particular) an Oathstone "mount" which is a flat cylindrical rock that two Dawi behind him are pushing him around on.

Rangers already get charge defense vs large which is helpful as they have decent melee defense allowing them to distract light cavalry.

Definitely agree make Hammerers a small elite unit. They need to find a way to buff their aoe and knockback; make these little dudes hit like Ogres (sixteen ogre bulls charging can knock an entire unit of swordsmen on their rear end, I've seen it) so that in addition to the inherent armor piercing of the unit it will disrupt lots of other unit types regardless. Slayers ought to get this effect too.

Iron breakers need charge REFLECT. The problem with giving them pistols is that they can only have 1 type of ranged attack and they already have satchel charges.
Everything that has charge defense should get reflect there's no arguing that. Honestly all dawi missile troops should be able to fire on the move too, their not a loving fast unit they won't kite and i can't imagine a more stable creature that could likely charge a flint lock on the move. Removing satchel charges and giving ironbreakers drakefire pistols shoulda already been done. The selection of lords and heroes is also pitiful so adding dwarf lords with pistols that fire on the move and in combat is only a good thing. Rangers need to be moved to their own thing also, melee variants, powder variants, ranger heroes and lords, ranger artillery pieces that already come with snipe and stalk.

Empire needs some hero/lord love too, it's hard to remember that vanilla empire doesn't have the caster lords. All powder factions should get hybrid and pure ranged lord/hero variants. I honestly feel hammerers should be heroes you recruit but come with 4-8 models, make them offensive heroes while thanes become defensive heroes or better yet just add like 3-4 variants of thanes, great weapons, dual weapons, axe and shield.

Arghy
Nov 15, 2012

I imagine they'll likely face a really constraining economy where if they don't get more and more slaves they'll just start facing massive attrition. In the lore they were held back because of their numbers like imagine a 20 stack with 3 chorf units.

What i don't get is playing this campaign and realizing how much i just don't care about it and just want loving IE is why didn't they just put 90% of their work into IE. You want a buffer game before you make the giant map sure but spend all of your dev time making the product that your entire goddamn player base wants and put a bare min into the buffer while you perfect the rest. I'm auto resolving all these final battles because gently caress i just don't care and i have zero investment in the story line. I appreciate just wandering and fighting in the realms of chaos more than the driving quest. They should have released the game with this place holder map and basically used it as a balancing tool for no more than a month before you release the main game which is IE. Work out all the technical kinks and faction balance issues for a month.

It's like they didn't learn from vortex and the WE campaign at all.

Arghy
Nov 15, 2012

You could use the TK unit limits to ensure you'll always have a core of chorfs and lore wise you wouldn't see a dawizhar lord without at least a body guard. It'd be real fun to basically be playing greenskins lite where you had 1 trust worthy stack of doom with 4 questionable stacks that could rebel on you. I'd have fun with a hobbo lord with abuncha wolf archer units doing the heavy lifting while you fed boyz and gobbos into the front line. It'd all pay off when i fought with my main army fielding insane artillery being guarded by a few chorf units.

They'd play with many chaff armies that have horrible leadership but mechanic wise not winning a single battle could result in all your chaff armies going hostile. Turn them into old school waaagh armies that don't belong to you but follow you around with insanely large reinforcement ranges. You wouldn't need to maintain them or recruit them but you also wouldn't be able to do much without them so you'd have this super strong stack being constantly surrounded by chaff armies that could turn on you if you're not careful. In the lore the hobbo khanate basically owned everything north of cathay so you could represent that by having literally 10's of weak armies just running wild in the chaos steppe so you'd have to try and lure a few of them down risking them attacking you haha.

Arghy
Nov 15, 2012

Panfilo posted:

OP poo poo I want SFO to overhaul Kislev with:

Ice Court lets you put existing maidens/witches back in the ice court to farm additional traits, but the cost+time increases each time you do this. It also respecs their skill points and makes having 2 training slots have more of a point to it.

Katarin has access to both lores, and gets access to Ice Guard hero units which can be recruited through the ice court and count as Ice Maidens for the purpose of hero cap. They'd be functionally similar to Waystalker heroes and could get snow leopard mounts. Katarin herself would get a chariot mount as well so she could go full Narnia on her enemies.

Kostaltyn would get a new Flagellant knockoff unit that was fast and immune to slowing effects, as well as having unusually high magic resist but nonexistent armor (the idea here being a T1 melee unit specifically designed to be effective vs demons). His campaign would have these as the default unit recruited at any settlement, to recruit Kossars he'd need the T1 barracks building. Kostaltyn would get a late game mount that was an Elemental Bear with a little chapel on top.

Boris would get access to Feral Bears which would be somewhere on the level of Ogre Bulls in effectiveness and cost but low base ld and easy to lose control.

Dervishes have bows by default, their unit count and hp balanced for the cost and versatility. Horse archers are now mounted Strelsi which are better armored outriders albeit with smaller unit count/hp than the foot version.

T3 infantry is now Bogatyr (dual axe and bardiche varieties) while Tzar Guard are more in line with aspiring champions at T4.

A new horse drawn sled artillery unit like the multishot bolt thrower, weak non AP dmg but slows units it hits and can fire while moving.

Guaranteed all this poo poo is DLC stuff coming down the line esp the mount options. Dervishes are so worthless they should totally be horse archers as default but the T2 should be armored horse archers basically light winged lancers and keep the powder to chariots and sleds. The bear mounts are cool but really generic they shoulda gone with ice sleds with guns so your lords would be war sleds. The snow leopard mounts wouldn't work because they're too small and honestly horses need more representation. Hairy gelt should just get a horse drawn war wagon because technically he's not too hot on ursun so it wouldn't make sense for him to ride the big bear.

I'd also love to see mounted ice maidens so you could have an entire mounted army haha just imagine wagons full of guns and tons of horse archers while your wizards are riding war sleds.

Arghy
Nov 15, 2012

Panfilo posted:

Glad we agree on dervishes, it's just so weird you'd think an army that can get a T1 hybrid unit would have a mounted version but they're just melee and horse archers have terrible melee stats. So just make em kossars on horses; kossars are already squishy so a faster move+shoot version with comparable cost. I like the idea of mounted strelsi better because an armored cavalry unit with ap ranged AND melee would be rather unique and the mobility makes it easier to play on Strelsi's strengths.

If not the bear then just a chapel pushed by zealots or something, an interesting counterpart to Volkmars popemobile. I think horses get plenty of representation as every hero/lord can take one as an option and they have 4 cavalry units. Just scale up the model if the kitty is too small or leave it as is for lulz like Archaeon on his little pony.

I do agree it would be cool to have an all mounted army. Which reminds me another thing - I heard in previous games you had the option to dismount and fight on foot. It would be interesting if kossars and Strelsi had research upgrades that made these units start mounted. Maybe to fire you have to hit a 'dismount' button which makes the horses disappear which gives you flexibility ; vs ranged units or flankers you might want to stay mounted. This could be alongside the dedicated mounted units that have smaller entity counts but can shoot while mounted.

MTW1 and 2 had dismounting knights i think and i think some mongol horse units could dismount too. No idea why they removed it because it was a really cool feature but it was something you decided before the battle began not mid battle. They should play around more with unit summons like a hero that has vanguard and stalk that can summon 2 units of some fast non crumbling skirmish cav. Miners on TT basically appeared out of the ground or from a table edge so you could have a miner hero thats the cost of 2 units of regular miners that'd summon miners in around him.

It'd be a fun way to address the fact that T1 units get left behind in your stack, add some SE units that could summon a few T1 units in mid battle. Empire captains could summon some empire knights or swords men representing them having their own retinue. You could add it to generic lords too so an empire general could summon a unit of halberds/spears on himself to represent his bodyguard. Balance it so you could summon multiple T1 units or single higher tier units and add a skill tree option to customize it. A skaven warlock engineer could choose some weapon teams or a unit of stormvermin.

Arghy
Nov 15, 2012

Panfilo posted:

You reminded me of a few other things I wish existed. Having units that were designed to pop in the middle of the battle. So miners are a perfect example. They pop up in the middle of the battle. The best modders could do was a Dwellers Below type ability but this was a summon, which never benefits from lord skills or veterancy. But ideally during deployment you'd have a box you could put these types of units, then after a predetermined delay you could just deploy them anywhere on the map. This would be especially good for Dawi as they are slow as molasses and this skill would be lulzy for capturing points.

The other thing you touched on was retinues. This is something I've wanted since the first game. My idea for it was that it was an alternate "mount" which gave you 4 bodyguards that had decent (but not amazing) stats. So like a Dwarf Lord might get a retinue of 4 hammerers, a paladin might be mounted with 4 knights of the realm, and so forth. The issue with this, though is that the engine doesn't seem to be able to support a single 'squad' having different weapons/stats/health. Because ideally the way I'd interpret it is that the retinue is expendible and meant to soak up hits and contribute a bit of extra damage, and only the hp of the lord model carries over which makes it harder to snipe the lord since you'd be targeting the squad as a whole.

Dawn of War managed to do this by having dissimilar units together, either upgrading a squad to have a sergeant unit and special weapon guys or having independent characters able to join squads (which would impart bonuses to the squad that were in). Total war kind of abstracts this with leadership bubbles but it's rather limited overall. Plus I'm pretty sure in TT most fantasy units could upgrade to a sergeant+standard bearer+musician which would have been cool to have instead of how these things are just tech upgrades.

They made a mod for this in TW2 that helped a ton by turning dawi lords into power houses similar how putting a regular elf lord on a dragon is huge. It looked alright but it was kinda meh beyond just bringing broken game 1 lords to game 2 status. Watching skaven lords get bone breakers or doom wheels and caster lords getting big loving monsters while i got at best a toilet seat for rune lords that couldn't even stand up to heroes in duels. The officers mod had a chance to do this because they beefed up that models health to ensure it wouldn't instantly die so you could theoretically create a single model that was crazy strong but everything else would likely die and it'd break.

I still feel that every faction should have a hero synergy where you had a mix of hero options because honestly gently caress this noise of 2-3 hero types. Every faction should have at least 4 generic lord types and 6 hero types, CA has no excuse now. The elves are the template to copy, multiple generic lord options, multiple hero types to cover all bases, and unique skills for each to specialize them even more.

Arghy
Nov 15, 2012

Sauron was a libertarian, let me explain.

Arghy
Nov 15, 2012

I'm wondering if the map is gonna be the same but we're just playing on a section of it--really digging the northern worlds edge mountains and i'm spending a lotta time in my kislev campaign just checking out the map haha.

Arghy
Nov 15, 2012

If you made a LL so badass that they didn't need a mount that's fine like no ones complaining about ungrim but generic lords that are often barely better than heroes should be crazy swiss army knives where they can spec into any role you want them to fill. I looked at the stats for kislev horses BTW and they're worse in every way to the bears where they should be getting more speed and charge damage at the very least. The boyars should get a hybrid variant with pistols and a hero to match so you can put them on horses and have them ride with your horse archers.

Arghy
Nov 15, 2012

Uhhh so i found out that you can't retreat from rift battles so i reloaded on the turn they appeared and now i'm 4 turns past that and no rifts have spawned. Did i just uncover a way to skip rifts?

Arghy
Nov 15, 2012

Panfilo posted:

Anyone else lazy and just autoresolve through the Demon prince rift battles? I get what they were going for, I just don't have the patience to go through it over And over. Plus it's easy to autoresolve a heroic victory anyway.

I literally haven't fought a single one.

Arghy
Nov 15, 2012

How would NFT's be included and why would this be a bad thing? People have talked about NFT's in games in the past and i have no idea why everyones angry isn't it just stupid cosmetics? Unless their gonna use everyones computers to mine bitcoins i don't really care if they scam people with pictures of monkeys.

Arghy
Nov 15, 2012

Haha i know how stupid and wasteful cryptos are i was just wondering if people thought NFT's were more wasteful and dumb on top of that. Paid cosmetics are pretty much a scam too just like all micro transactions so it doesn't surprise me that gaming companies would wanna do something shady.

Deep rock galactic is the only game that has done cosmetics right but you can't expect all game devs to be the perfect saints that they the DRG devs are.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Arghy
Nov 15, 2012

I said come in! posted:

This game will get better with more updates, the devs will make it good, and awesome. Right? RIGHT??? :negative:

I mean WH2 was pretty loving amazing and the modders filled in for all the devs failings so honestly all they need to do is give us a giant map and modding tools then the price will be worth it.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply