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Goon Commonweal mapping project? we have enough people in here who have read the books repeatedly to be able to fact-check it, I imagine.
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Jan 17, 2023 01:44
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Slyphic posted:Third. I've used the 'Frodo Lives' comparison even. I'll add that to the OP if you don't mind.
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Jan 17, 2023 02:49
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Kestral posted:Goon Commonweal mapping project? we have enough people in here who have read the books repeatedly to be able to fact-check it, I imagine. Hmm, I would be somewhat interested in this.
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Jan 17, 2023 05:36
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habeasdorkus posted:Hmm, I would be somewhat interested in this. Same. I’d think a starting point would just be a shared document that records anywhere that two places are related wrt one another, along with text cites?
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Jan 17, 2023 07:00
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Yeah, I think that'd make sense. Basically get a big list of locations and how they seem to be positioned to each other. I've looked at the map that cultureulterior did years ago plenty of times, and IIRC other than needing to be flipped east/west it's a good starting point.
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Jan 17, 2023 13:39
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Danhenge posted:I'll add that to the OP if you don't mind. By all means. habeasdorkus posted:Yeah, I think that'd make sense. Basically get a big list of locations and how they seem to be positioned to each other. I've looked at the map that cultureulterior did years ago plenty of times, and IIRC other than needing to be flipped east/west it's a good starting point. I made a list of 'geo-facts' in a notebook from March North some point before the pandemic, and I've of course lost it since. But same idea, build the map like a logic grid puzzle for where things must be.
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Jan 17, 2023 14:53
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A collaborative whiteboard like Sketchboard.me would be excellent for the early stages, since you can add objects and position them relative to one another, tag objects with commentary, write text directly to the board, etc. Sketchboard also has a snap-to-grid function, which would be useful in establishing measurements once you’re at that stage, and good for approximations before then: one grid square equals X kilometers, etc.
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Jan 17, 2023 19:51
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But I'd put the simple list of geo-facts in a Google Doc, and move it to the whiteboard/map/whatever as a second pass. (Also interested, unsure of my actual time availability, but interested.)
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Jan 17, 2023 20:18
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I'm interested as well. I might still have the list of geofacts I started with, I'll check. Some things will be unavailable now, because of the death of the mailing list and g+, like how the main river flows
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Jan 17, 2023 20:34
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Ok, started scratch notes in a google doc from where I was in my reread. Can anyone guess what part I just started?
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Jan 17, 2023 22:21
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Lead out in cuffs posted:But I'd put the simple list of geo-facts in a Google Doc, and move it to the whiteboard/map/whatever as a second pass. diog feels a chill run down his spine at the idea of us being encouraged in this sort of nonsense
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Jan 18, 2023 01:36
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Google Jeb Bush posted:diog feels a chill run down his spine at the idea of us being encouraged in this sort of nonsense Lol I've definitely had a few moments of "could they be the same person?" (But I'm fairly sure they're not.)
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Jan 18, 2023 01:58
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I've completed my re-read of A Succession of Bad Days, and in doing so added everything I could find about places to the google doc notepad. I'm very confused on precisely how many canals there are in the Creeks. The joke about their being a parliamentary riding called the Western West West-East Canal was good, though.
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Jan 19, 2023 15:31
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I’m just picking this series back up at book 3 and have forgotten almost everything. I think there were 5 students? Brainwormy, brain worm’s crush, embodiment of death or something, ?????? And !!!!!!!!!. Can anyone help very roughly giving me the lowdown on the students?
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Jan 20, 2023 17:49
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book 2 had: * Edgar (brainwormy, previously dim, had a parasite that kept him from developing his talent - and intelligence - until just before the 2nd book began, unhatched horror from beyond the universe whose hatching and aftermath thereof is the end of book 2); *Dove (brainwormy's crush, returning character in The March North as a platoon leader, the strongest student by some distance, in her mid-30s and thus the oldest student by about a decade, and possessed of unconquerable willpower and determination); *Chloris (Death, very prim young Creek who struggled to come to terms with being a necromancer because of the social stigma and legends about necromancers, and also because her family were lovely, toxic, emotionally abusive assholes); and * Zora (2nd weakest of the bunch, most traditionally sane of the four, still a teenager, life-mage, likes to create illusory butterfly wings, almost kills herself by doing a massive working inside an already big working that cooks her brain right under the nose of one of their teachers). Book 2 also started with Kynefrid in the class, who was a bit weaker than Zora. Kynefrid dropped out of the program because he couldn't get himself to believe that it could actually work and it wouldn't just end up killing him. So he left to try to succeed as a traditional student. Book 3 has a fifth member of the team introduced, Constant, who is a whole... thing. And not very well explained. Constant was not in the 2nd book outside of what I think is a glancing mention here: "[Dove and Edgar's] full coherence creates a third distinct mind, there are three of them at that point in time, there might be an entire intermittent personality." habeasdorkus fucked around with this message at 18:22 on Jan 20, 2023 |
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Jan 20, 2023 18:09
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habeasdorkus posted:I've completed my re-read of A Succession of Bad Days, and in doing so added everything I could find about places to the google doc notepad. I'm very confused on precisely how many canals there are in the Creeks. The joke about their being a parliamentary riding called the Western West West-East Canal was good, though. Yeah I'm reading for the first time, and I think the implication is that while the Creeks themselves run roughly north to south, there's a giant network of canals linking them east to west. habeasdorkus posted:Book 2 also started with Kynefrid in the class, who was a bit weaker than Zora. Kynefrid dropped out of the program because he couldn't get himself to believe that it could actually work and it wouldn't just end up killing him. So he left to try to succeed as a traditional student. Was Kynefrid ever gendered? I don't think I ever saw them referred to with anything but gender-neutral pronouns.
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Jan 20, 2023 21:06
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Lead out in cuffs posted:Was Kynefrid ever gendered? I don't think I ever saw them referred to with anything but gender-neutral pronouns. Chloris complains about there only being two dudes in the group.
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Jan 20, 2023 21:19
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Yeah, Kynefrid is a gay dude. It's just that the Commonweal folks don't refer to non-intimate partners with gendered pronouns in general. I only used male pronouns for sake of clarity because "they couldn't get themselves to believe" might have indicated more than just Kynefrid's belief.
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Jan 20, 2023 21:49
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lol yeah i think it's primarily mentioned in the context of Chloris being depressed there's no one to bone because she'd probably instantly kill any normal person
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Jan 20, 2023 21:57
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There's also a reference later on, during Kynefrid's test for Independent status, that "he never lost his wish to be mighty" w/r/t Angren; given that gendered language is typically used for intimate partners, that reinforces the "Kynefrid likes the lads" from the wizard school books.
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Jan 20, 2023 22:06
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constant is a gestalt of some of the core young external power group, yeah. they have names for all of the gestalts, because iirc Blossom eventually can meld with them too. and these gestalts really are their own person separate from their component personalities, too.
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Jan 20, 2023 22:31
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Kynefrid's one of the blue folks that has to consume methanol, isn't he? Zora and Ed are somewhere on the more traditional body plan, I think.
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Jan 20, 2023 23:27
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Ed is cold blooded and bleeds blue after shape-shifting practice. He only started at the traditional end of the spectrum
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Jan 20, 2023 23:36
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grassy gnoll posted:Kynefrid's one of the blue folks that has to consume methanol, isn't he? Kynefrid has blue hair, but I don’t think they’re an Elegant (the alcohol-requiring folks); Angren is an Elegant Blue (ethanol-requiring), and at Eugenia’s Independent test, she notes that one of Crane’s students “might be an Elegant”, which suggests Kynefrid is not. (Also Elegant Blues aren’t actually very blue, judging from the relative descriptions of Kynefrid and Angren at Eugenia’s independent ceremony.) Basically I think from what we’ve seen Kynefrid is probably one of the less common types of person in the Commonweal, one that doesn’t belong to any of the clusters.
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Jan 21, 2023 00:18
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Kynefrid does have blue hair, though. Also tall and thin, and gets cold very easily. e: not sure how I missed the mention of his blue hair in the last post.
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Jan 21, 2023 00:29
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I am just about finished with the first book and loved it. I *think* I have figured out a lot of how things work from the context, but it's still all very confusing. I have avoided reading this thread because of spoilers for the following books which I will dive into soon, but does a lot of this stuff get answered going forward? Like I understand a lot about the standard but I also feel like I am missing a whole lot and/or I may be wrong. Is there any guide to the mechanics of this world and magic system that wouldn't spoil later books or should I just continue reading because there will be more concrete explanations?
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Jan 23, 2023 20:30
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There aren't any great guides in part because there is a lot of explanation spread throughout the series. If you have questions you should ask them and if they can be answered without big spoilers we'll try to answer them. Glad you liked the March North, though!
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Jan 23, 2023 20:40
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Plenty of stuff gets answered but it's rarely answered explicitly. You gotta work to understand more than the plot in these books.
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Jan 23, 2023 21:16
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D-Pad posted:I am just about finished with the first book and loved it. I *think* I have figured out a lot of how things work from the context, but it's still all very confusing. I have avoided reading this thread because of spoilers for the following books which I will dive into soon, but does a lot of this stuff get answered going forward? Like I understand a lot about the standard but I also feel like I am missing a whole lot and/or I may be wrong. Is there any guide to the mechanics of this world and magic system that wouldn't spoil later books or should I just continue reading because there will be more concrete explanations? Keep reading, then ask questions if you feel too lost IMO.
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Jan 23, 2023 21:25
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Ok so if any of these answers will be spoilers for later books or even just lessen the impact of a cool lightbulb moment in the later books I don't want to know. I am going to spoiler the whole thing in case anybody wonders in here that hasn't read the first book yet. 1. The standard. It allows lesser talent folks to combine like Voltron so their magical abilities are on par with the strongest independents? But it also seems to have it's own pocket dimension that can be used to store stuff (the battalion records are mentioned) and to go into for meetings and also for the dead to stay in before they move on to the afterlife? Why did they have wagons and such for the ammunition if they can store things in the standard? But it also is a physical thing? Like a big pole with a flag or something? When they talk about going in and out of it are they physically going in and out of this pocket dimension or is it like an out of body thing? It also has a focus which is like a force field that can be shaped to push and pull and do all kinds of things? Also, a person (Blossom) can be a standard? Also does the standard-captain get full control or otherwise have special abilities? 2. Road building/marching Didn't really quite understand this. When they march it's like a haste spell so they are going super fast, but they also talk about like not being able to see outside (the drovers in particular who aren't part of the standard can't see what is around them as they march if I remember correctly). Are they inside the standard during marching and there is just a big flagpole rushing down the countryside? Is it actually just a time warp thing? Why do they have to build a road everywhere as they go? That seemed very important but I couldn't understand why because even the Reems guys built the despair road but they weren't traveling down it at the time so why build the road? 3. Why do they need a second commonweal? I couldn't get whether it was because the creatures out of the paingyre are definitely (or already had) going to beat the rest of the first commonweal or if they are just going to cleave the creeks from the commonweal? It sounded like cleaving but why does that require setting up a second commonweal exactly? Why couldn't they still communicate via magic or why do they not expect the first commonweal will attack and reestablish communication? 4. Shape of Peace So this seems to be basically the constitution of the commonweal but it's also a magic binding that means the people bound to it literally cannot break any of it's rules without dying on the spot? 5. What are signas pennons and gesiths? 6. The captain is a graul which seems to be a species created by magic? Is that right? What exactly are their powers? They can see a little way into the future but the captain can apparently change his mind in the past to negate the ability of another graul? 7. How exactly does the artillery work? Is it basically what we have except instead of gunpowder shells it's just shells with a certain kind of magic or spell in them? Like red-red-black and red-red-red are just designations for what exactly it does when it explodes? 8. The battles could be a bit confusing. What was actually killing people? Was it spells/magic Reems launched that made it through the focus/shield? It seemed like maybe in certain instances they actually got into them in melee and cut down people with swords or whatever but I don't remember a single description of anybody in the Line actually physically fighting with handheld weaponry. That's all I can think of now. I really enjoy his prose but it is also incredibly frustrating and I have never had to re-read passages as much as I have had reading this book to understand exactly what is going on or being said.
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Jan 23, 2023 21:43
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Actually, yeah. Basically all of that gets answered lol. But you have to pick up on it.
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Jan 23, 2023 22:52
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1. Not a full answer, but you can't fit everything into the standard because there isn't room. The Captain mentions that "you’re not expected to have guests, or at least not more than one or two at a time." The space for the dead still attached to the banner is not for living folks, generally, or for storage. e: The space inside a standard is extradimensional, you can walk into it if you have the Standard Captain's invitation. The other Standards recognize Blossom as a standard, which is very much not normal and is part of why the Captain calls Blossom an existential threat to the Commonweal in his report to General Chert. 2. You need to build the road as you march or you'll run into things or off of cliffs at high speeds. Reems built their road to prevent the Northern Hills from shifting around, rather than move quickly. 3. Worried about the former, certain about the latter. And no means of communication or transit that would be safe. Hard to have a representative government if you can't get your elected representatives to parliament. 4. Yes and no. It's the overarching enchantment that enforces rules on those sworn to office and Independents. If you're just a random citizen you can still lie to folks about the size of the fish you caught. 5. Signas and Pennons are types of Standards, the former for brigades and the latter for a general. Gesith is an Old English word for "companion, fellow, comrade; companion or follower of an athel or king" and are essentially government Departments or Ministries in the Commonweal (e.g. the Lug-Gesith, which handles transportation, or the Line-Gesith, which handles equipping the Line) 6. You essentially have this correct. The Captain figured out how to change what he did in the past while fighting the Hell-things from the Paingyre. "Really a pity you have to spend a continuous month in the focus and cursing your bad decisions to figure out how to do it. More of a pity that the reach back isn’t very deep." 7. The artillery are more like electromagnetic railguns than regular gunpowder cannon. The red/black indicates whether there's any magic involved with that part of the shot or not. I can't recall what the order is for the three, but the first is "type of boom" with black being the pure kinetic energy of the shell, and the second two being "guidance system" and something I can't recall off the top of my head. 8. Depends on the battle. Most of the Line who died perished in the battle after Reems' road exploded. Those primarily were killed in hand to hand combat with Reems berserkers because it's difficult to fight while feeling the effects of pure, material despair. habeasdorkus fucked around with this message at 23:15 on Jan 23, 2023 |
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Jan 23, 2023 23:08
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also some of that artillery they're using in the March North is making explosions more like something you'd drop from a modern bomber. they seem capable of a wide range from "conventional mortar shell" to "vast expanse of burning glass" e: lol i was looking up the end of the march north to see if i was remembering right and came upon quote:The mostly clear path took us through the blast zone where the Master Gunner got whoever was running the big Reems joint enchantment. eke out fucked around with this message at 23:50 on Jan 23, 2023 |
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Jan 23, 2023 23:44
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Ok so not too far off what I thought was going on. Thanks! Is there a reason this author hasn't tried to publish an actual book or through the more popular ebook stores? Seems like he is leaving a lot on the table, I could definitely see this being more popular with a wider reach.
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Jan 23, 2023 23:44
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D-Pad posted:Ok so not too far off what I thought was going on. Thanks! extreme commitment to his highly specific political/economic philosophy, i think. more on that as the series progresses!
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Jan 23, 2023 23:46
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D-Pad posted:Is there a reason this author hasn't tried to publish an actual book He is overtly resistant to any suggest he should. He's said he might consider it when the whole series is done. Graydon is a regular commenter (and guest poster) over on Charles Stross' blog, and I've seen Stross make more than one offer to have his agent call Graydon and offer him a publishing deal with no future book obligations. Graydon continues to delcine. It's kinda comical to watch. Also, he's gainfully employed as specialist technical writer for megacorps. This is a passion project, not anything like an attempt at a second career. He would never make as much as a published author as he does at his day job. D-Pad posted:or through the more popular ebook stores? Seems like he is leaving a lot on the table, I could definitely see this being more popular with a wider reach. Graydon has problems with Amazon et al. Insurmountable ethical and legal ones. I believe those are explained on his blog, though they might be in the comments, so good luck finding them or just believe this rando.
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Jan 24, 2023 01:28
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e: it's not on the post i thought it was.
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Jan 24, 2023 02:05
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D-Pad posted:Ok so if any of these answers will be spoilers for later books or even just lessen the impact of a cool lightbulb moment in the later books I don't want to know. I am going to spoiler the whole thing in case anybody wonders in here that hasn't read the first book yet. Re 4. It's more that it's used for attestations under oath, ie there are consequences to defying it. Not necessarily death -- see the part at the end of book 1 where a parliamentarian tests out the "no lies in parliament" functionality and ends up with his pants on fire -- but definite, strong consequences. There's also a bunch of stuff that's gotten into in book 2 about magical protections provided by the Peace, most notably that it keeps everyone's true names within it. This both gives the Peace power over people, but protects them from being magicked against using their true names. There are more complex rules for keeping Independent sorcerers in line, which are hinted at in book 1, and are gone into in a lot of detail in book 2. 7. The shells are pre-created by enchantment (all except the black, which are just slugs). The artillery use a standard to magically propel the shells to the enemy, potentially using weird paths, homing logic, etc. 8. In the first battle, the most casualties were taken mainly from the solid despair evaporating all over them like a chemical weapon. Otherwise, sorcerers, the swords of berserkers, etc. The Captain single-handedly slices up 220-some dudes with a sword in the first battle. A bunch of the weapons of the main Wapentake/short company are melee weapons, they just have some ranged weapons they use first. (Also, from the Captain's POV, the last battle involved a lot more magic/demons/ichor, whereas Blossoms end of things probably got a lot messier once the enemy were inside arty range.) Edit: Also re 1, the standards are actual, very enchanted, objects. They have the pocket dimension, the dead storage capability, and the ability to act as a focus for collective mystical effort. It's mentioned in book 1 that a Standard Captain is bound to their standard, such that they die if they go further than a few kilometres from it. The pocket dimension is a courtesy so they have a portable place to live. Book 1 also mentions that the Standards for the Second Commonweal had to be made out of wood as a temporary measure. They go into this a bit more in book 2. "The focus" is I think the state of joining together, while the standard is the object that facilitates that. There are also other standards than battle standards, for various industrial purposes, but the battle Standards are the most important. Really, book 2 goes into a lot of exposition, in a way that's somehow not annoying? It's less exciting than the fighting of the first book, but Graydon manages to make mundane slice-of-life tasks be extremely metal. Lead out in cuffs fucked around with this message at 03:17 on Jan 24, 2023 |
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Jan 24, 2023 02:06
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Slyphic posted:Graydon has problems with Amazon et al. Insurmountable ethical and legal ones. I believe those are explained on his blog, though they might be in the comments, so good luck finding them or just believe this rando. That's fair. Amazon is an especially terrible company.
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Jan 24, 2023 02:32
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Lead out in cuffs posted:There are also other standards than battle standards, for various industrial purposes. They call the focuses for other jobs just focuses. The Standards are their own thing, and more than just the focus (although that's the thing that gives the Line its ability to stand up to Bad Old Days sorcerers.
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Jan 24, 2023 03:46
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