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I think about this too. Has anyone reputable actually crunched the numbers on global crop capacity with and without industrial nitrogen fixation processes? Like if everyone had compost piles and permaculture tracts in their various domiciles could this produce enough viable crop yield to reliably feed the world? Organic micro-farms are cool and all but I genuinely don’t know the answer to the question on a global scale.
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Aug 10, 2022 03:52
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we produce many times the food needed to feed the world. we just feed it to animals. most commodity grains grown are animal feed. there is more slack there than most people realize.
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Aug 10, 2022 04:05
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some small amount of animal agriculture is probably still a net positive with processing stuff like bean pods, etc., but yeah you solve a lot of arable land problems by not eating flavourless garbage meat 2-3 times a day
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Aug 10, 2022 04:08
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tokin opposition posted:What is the most proletarian plant? (it is the potato) False, it's cassava Works as both a guerrilla crop you can secretly farm in plain sight and as a huge carbohydrate staple crop
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Aug 10, 2022 04:12
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I wonder how many people we could feed if we brought back the buffalo and selectively bred/genetically altered them for docility, obedience, and meat. Like, full on utopian-scienced them, and how much of that technology exists today or would be achievable shortly if we prioritized it.
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Aug 10, 2022 04:16
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Bar Ran Dun posted:we produce many times the food needed to feed the world. This is definitely true, and certainly bad, but it doesn’t change the fact that most industrial agriculture is made possible by (currently) unsustainably energy-intensive nitrogen fixation processes. The question isn’t “can the world produce enough food for everyone (right now if organized properly)” it’s “can the world produce enough food for everyone indefinitely in a way that doesn’t require unsustainable chemical processes”.
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Aug 10, 2022 04:18
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Bar Ran Dun posted:we produce many times the food needed to feed the world. is that good posted:some small amount of animal agriculture is probably still a net positive with processing stuff like bean pods, etc., but yeah you solve a lot of arable land problems by not eating flavourless garbage meat 2-3 times a day counterpoint: beef jerky is really tasty Vox Nihili posted:False, it's cassava all root vegetables are potatoes so wrong
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Aug 10, 2022 04:19
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Cpt_Obvious posted:I wonder how many people we could feed if we brought back the buffalo and selectively bred/genetically altered them for docility, obedience, and meat. Why would that be any better than cattle?
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Aug 10, 2022 04:19
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genetically engineered super-cows that photosynthesize (c) me 2022 donut steal
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Aug 10, 2022 04:24
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its difficult to imagine a sustainable fertilizer for the population we currently have. pre-haber-bosch, we were on a fossilized guano-backed boom, and prior to that I believe was crop rotation? which isn't gonna cut it. ironically I think that continuing current processes just with nuclear energy as the input is probably the most potentially sustainable option. or mass legume cultivation (like on the scale we currently feed to livestock) just as tillage
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Aug 10, 2022 05:28
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JamesKPolk posted:its difficult to imagine a sustainable fertilizer for the population we currently have. pre-haber-bosch, we were on a fossilized guano-backed boom, and prior to that I believe was crop rotation? which isn't gonna cut it. Alternatively, we start treating civilization like we're a space colony and have cities basically function as a closed system, recycling every turd and body back into the system rather than let it pollute our waters with nutrients that gently caress up the local ecosystem.
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Aug 10, 2022 05:43
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TheSlutPit posted:This is definitely true, and certainly bad, but it doesn’t change the fact that most industrial agriculture is made possible by (currently) unsustainably energy-intensive nitrogen fixation processes. The question isn’t “can the world produce enough food for everyone (right now if organized properly)” it’s “can the world produce enough food for everyone indefinitely in a way that doesn’t require unsustainable chemical processes”. not completely, but possibly for a very very long time with much much less meat consumption and better soil management practices tokin opposition posted:counterpoint: beef jerky is really tasty some amount of livestock is good.
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Aug 10, 2022 06:15
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lol progressives of every era grappling with overpopulation and re-inventing anti-natalism and eugenics
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Aug 10, 2022 06:17
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TheSlutPit posted:This is definitely true, and certainly bad, but it doesn’t change the fact that most industrial agriculture is made possible by (currently) unsustainably energy-intensive nitrogen fixation processes. The question isn’t “can the world produce enough food for everyone (right now if organized properly)” it’s “can the world produce enough food for everyone indefinitely in a way that doesn’t require unsustainable chemical processes”. Here's an interesting one about soil erosion rates in various spots around the world, categorized by how the land is managed https://ourworldindata.org/soil-lifespans Good explanation on why "we only have XX harvests left!!  " stuff is a crock of poo poo but anthropogenic soil erosion is still real and bad and a solvable problem
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Aug 10, 2022 06:36
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Fortaleza posted:Here's an interesting one about soil erosion rates in various spots around the world, categorized by how the land is managed https://ourworldindata.org/soil-lifespans Thanks, this is pretty much the exact thing I was asking about in my first post! I’ve worked on some smaller (5-10 acre) farms that claimed to be self-sustaining but I really have no idea how those principles work at scale.
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Aug 10, 2022 06:48
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There's also lots of work being done on developing perennial staple crops. No idea how viable or worthwhile they are but the neatness levels are off the charts https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perennial_rice I have a teeny plot that I was using for a crop of flax before my foster dog destroyed it, thinking of planting some wacky perennial wheat next year. In true american fashion there's a trademarked version of a perennial wheat called "Kernza", a local brewery makes a beer with it but haven't had it yet
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Aug 10, 2022 06:55
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The Oldest Man posted:Ok I think gets you less than half-way, who else do you kill Anyone opposing the "kill everyone over 30" also gets got even if younger
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Aug 10, 2022 10:53
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tokin opposition posted:isn't that a good thing? are there other times when the threat has communism has lead to good things and can we use this somehow in other contexts? depending on who you ask, environmentalists, malthusians, anti globalists etc, the Green Revolution was not a good thing
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Aug 10, 2022 16:58
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shrike82 posted:lol progressives of every era grappling with overpopulation and re-inventing anti-natalism and eugenics feeding a growing population has been the primary concern of every state throughout all of human history except for the industrialized west. do you think its because they were all eugenicists
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Aug 10, 2022 17:14
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what's the deal with these, second time i've seen this picture in as many days
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Aug 10, 2022 17:25
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What is the best kind of potato
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Aug 10, 2022 20:27
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tokin opposition posted:What is the best kind of potato take your pick.  i love taters and the idea that there might be an ancient type of tater kept around by some obscure Peruvian farmer that will save everyone from starving to death in the future.
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Aug 10, 2022 21:16
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Some of those shapes are wild. I like russet, probably because I just had a giant baked one the other night.
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Aug 10, 2022 23:16
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the thing about stuff like livestock such as buffalos and whatever other animals is you can just let em run loose and go eat one when you're hungry. Just because they weren't in pens doesn't mean they weren't cultivated. Similarly the cow is kind of a big deal for a lot of places where you can let them graze on lovely rangeland and then milk them, you can be vegetarian and still have zebu.
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Aug 11, 2022 09:28
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If you have to poop youve eaten to much If you get hungry you've moved to much If you have to produce more because of those two then you're stealing from the earth
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Aug 11, 2022 09:31
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the anwser is putting fingers in they ears while chanting slogans about malthusianism and 'distribution not production' op
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Aug 11, 2022 09:34
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Obviously algae tanks are the future of farming.Fozzy The Bear posted:Effort post: What sort of magical dairy farm has excess manure? You typically apply nitrogen. Re: water filtration, look up slow sand filters. Why do you need composting toilets and a septic tank? Thanks for the battery recommendation. is that good posted:some small amount of animal agriculture is probably still a net positive with processing stuff like bean pods, etc., but yeah you solve a lot of arable land problems by not eating flavourless garbage meat 2-3 times a day There's also a bunch of land that's no good for crops but great for sheep.
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Aug 11, 2022 10:26
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thalweg posted:what's the deal with these, second time i've seen this picture in as many days iirc that is a method of refining/concentrating phosphates, a key fertilizer (maybe it isn't phosphate, but still fertilizer related)
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Aug 11, 2022 11:41
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I like the idea of eating seasonal fruits and veg, and more local staples. exchanges would be cool, too, to increase diet diversity and as like a food cultural exchange. meal services that focus on this could be good, too
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Aug 11, 2022 11:51
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This is probably stupid and might not be the right thread for it, but I had a thought the other day: Most trees planted in public spaces are intentionally male, so that the poors don't have any food to just go grab and eat so now they gotta go buy McDonald's fries instead of picking an apple off a nearby tree, right? Is it possible to graft female fruit-bearing trees to the existing male trees, guerilla-style? Would the grafts produce fruit? Could I just buy a female tree and turn it into X number of grafts to sneak into the trees in the public park? I guess what I'm saying is can we give all the trees sex changes to help feed the world?
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Aug 11, 2022 12:29
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I am not a botanist, but I think that it is fairly uncommon for, say, a tree to be male and thus not produce fruit. Your example of apple trees, some might not be self-pollinating but having a few should be enough. There are cherry trees that blossom, but don't produce (palatable and large) fruit. Some trees that make fruit become a nuisance because no one collects the (possibly unpalatable) fruit and it falls all over the sidewalk and road and ferments and has large pits and... There are some park benches by me that have fruiting grape vines shading them. You can reach up and get some grapes.
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Aug 11, 2022 12:48
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Organic Lube User posted:This is probably stupid and might not be the right thread for it, but I had a thought the other day: urban trees don't have fruit because the soil is extremely toxic and nobody picks enough of it so the fruit just falls off and rots creating a biohazardous rats nest loving over poor people is just a side effect
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Aug 11, 2022 12:58
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Ok so we just eat the rats then. gently caress.
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Aug 11, 2022 13:07
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Picking up a fruit rat under the tree by my bus stop and crunching into it like a apple
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Aug 11, 2022 13:10
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Cuttlefush posted:Picking up a fruit rat under the tree by my bus stop and crunching into it like a apple
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Aug 11, 2022 13:22
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Cherry rats taste better than apple rats and you can't convince me otherwise.
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Aug 11, 2022 13:22
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A Buttery Pastry posted:pink lady or red delicious? jazz actually probably red delicious because most of them are gonna be really mealy
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Aug 11, 2022 13:23
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Actually is there a way to safely eat urban rats? I was just reading Terry Pratchett and...
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Aug 11, 2022 15:29
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Organic Lube User posted:Ok so we just eat the rats then. gently caress. https://www.dictionary.com/browse/b...er%20organisms. "Biological magnification, or biomagnification, is the increasing buildup of toxic substances within organisms that happens at each stage of the food chain."
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Aug 11, 2022 17:33
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tokin opposition posted:Actually is there a way to safely eat urban rats? I was just reading Terry Pratchett and... Anyone who dies from eating rats can be fed to rats and re-enter the glorious food cycle
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Aug 11, 2022 17:38
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