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Warmachine
Jan 30, 2012



Antivehicular posted:

Also 1-30 is the most boring part of leveling an alt job, especially just getting to having roulette access in the first place, so even a marginal increase in leveling speed is huge QoL.

I would say 30-40 is the most boring part, because you're probably running a lot of Braflox Longstop if you're spooling up an alt. Also 3 of your potential alt jobs start in that bracket.

I've been working on SMN after finally picking a magic DPS to focus on, and the EXP was pretty steady enough to level without too much grind up until that point. Admittedly, I was doing hunting logs since I knew full well that is a major source of EXP in the early levels for classic ARR classes. Friggen FATE was blocking my Mossy Gooblue spawn :argh:

To make this newbie relevant, leveling two classes in tandem is very viable, especially if you're doing your roulettes when you play as well. Honestly, you can probably level all three roles in tandem since Tank and Healer have such short queue times--level a DPS via MSQ, and feed your tank and healer jobs on Duty Roulette/whenever you need to do a Duty to advance the MSQ. :pcgaming:

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Warmachine
Jan 30, 2012



Trailer man switches jobs mid fight. I demand the ability to do this and also the ability to use two jobs at once. Let me complete my ascension to being a Gundam by letting me combine SGE with GNB. I'll even buy a rename for my catgirl and call her Setsuna from now on.

Warmachine
Jan 30, 2012



Neo_Crimson posted:

Let me switch jobs mid combo like Dante from the Devil May CryTM series.

FFX-2 even made this a mechanic. It's part of the franchise already!

Warmachine
Jan 30, 2012



girl dick energy posted:

How did I never loving notice that Eorzea is shaped like Africa?

lol gently caress me I'm absolutely blind.

Warmachine
Jan 30, 2012



Flair posted:

That's part of the point of doing this -- to validate or invalidate the exaggeration.

Yeah, whatever happens CT is unlikely to be soloable under a strict definition simply because the mechanics of an Alliance raid won't let you enter alone. Then there's fight mechanics in some 8 and 24 man content that require multiple people or you can't resolve the mechanics and have no way to clear it--the Atamos fight in LotA comes to mind.

The exaggeration was invalid from the start I'm sad to say.

Warmachine
Jan 30, 2012



Flair posted:

It was alright. I decided to go with the Japanese cutscene audio to change it up; it was decent, though there is one scene at the end where the music was louder than the voice actor. (And this is with the default sound settings.)

I think it is possible. Of course, it is a matter of putting the resources for making NPC companions to handle all the mechanics. Even the early 4-man dungeons were redesigned and simplified in such that the current NPC capability could handle it. Based on my experience, seems like the NPCs can handle focusing down on something or getting out of danger puddles, but they are not smart enough to coordinate or handle multiple targeted mechanics. For instance, there are some early dungeon that used to have multiple lamps/cannons to toggle; now those bosses just do evil eye and more danger puddles respectively.

They could do something like Bioware did with SWTOR: Shadow of Revan. The expansion finale could be done either as a full raid with additional bosses culminating in a fight with Revan at the apex of the Temple of Sacrifice, or as a solo duty style fight where all the big hero NPCs join you to fight just him instead. Doing at least one of the two methods was required to complete the final quest and see the ending.

girl dick energy posted:

Cid uncomfortably explaining that someone's going to need to volunteer to get vored. :allears:

Hoary Boulder explaining that EVERYONE NEEDS TO GET IN THE BELLY. :parrot:

Warmachine
Jan 30, 2012



euphronius posted:

Reading up it appears npcs don’t use AOE which is a decent balance decision I guess

My understanding is that the dungeons are tuned to take about 30 minutes total with a group of NPCs.

Warmachine
Jan 30, 2012



Schwartzcough posted:

And this is probably obvious, but if you're hoping for commends from a first-time player, you have to wait around while they watch the end-of-dungeon cutscenes.

There's been many a time where I finish my cutscene all ready to commend somebody only to find there's no one left to commend.

This is probably the biggest factor. If they're busy ooohing and ahhhing at the cutscene, you're probably gone before they're done enjoying the outro. I wouldn't think about commends too hard, personally.

Warmachine
Jan 30, 2012



I find my commendations correlate well to how chatty I am. Or at least it feels like I get commended more if I say things in chat between pulls or whatever.

Warmachine
Jan 30, 2012



sassassin posted:

The ARR postgame MSQ is better than ARR proper, which is honestly pretty dire even in the modern trimmed-down format. The problem is people try to rush through trying to get to "the good stuff" in HW when 2.x is an episodic thing where a lot of in-story time passes between most of the patches. The lack of character progression for hours and hours makes it frustrating even though the narrative/dungeons/trials are way better.

It's more "I just came off 50 levels of ARR vignettes, and I need to do MORE?" The expansion content feels way more digestible to someone going from 1-90 because you have 10 levels of x.0 quests and then the epilogue. Where as 1-50 feels like a long time, and thus makes the epilogue feel like padding as opposed to wrapping up the story.

There's probably a more elegant and precise way to post this, but that is how I felt when I got there. I was looking forward to getting into Ishgard partially because I took a break from MSQ to level crafting, and needed to head that way for my gathering, and finding out that I had a bunch more ARR MSQ to do after the credits rolled left me feeling sour.

I didn't feel remotely the same coming out of HW/StB/ShB because I'd spent comparatively less time in a more focused story and it was clear the MSQ was wrapping up the tale and preparing for the next story.

Pray return to the Waking Sands is a meme for a reason.

Warmachine
Jan 30, 2012



sassassin posted:

I'm okay with GNB before Continuation because you still have resource spenders for a burst phase. Missing the gap closer (56) feels worse and there's just a load of junk between that and 70.

WHM is fine after Regen at 35.

GNB has two breakpoints for me: lack of Continuation making the class feel very slow, and lack of the AOE spender.

DNC I've complained about before not having Closed Position when downsynced below 60. Both classes I feel lose a bit of "identity" not having those signature abilities, and I'm on record saying I'd trade early dancer AOE to have my class signature ability.

Warmachine
Jan 30, 2012



Dareon posted:

There's a moment in Heavensward where a moogle asks if you remember them. This moogle has no defining features whatsoever. Fortunately the other names you're given as options are all moogles that do have defining features, so it's a process of elimination.

I literally just guessed. I like to think my dumbass catgirl was just, "Uhh... Moggie?" And the moogle was somehow too polite to notice that I was obviously stabbing in the dark.

Warmachine
Jan 30, 2012



The trashcan was peak tank armor design and I'll hear no argument against it. It's one of the things that immediately cemented me to FFXIV.

Warmachine
Jan 30, 2012



Bloody Pom posted:

I know why GNB's cartridge spenders all combo off a single button (controller limitations) but it's still frustrating that the game breaks its own established rules for weaponskill combos like that. In a similar vein, why don't SMN's Aetherflow builders just turn into their respective spenders while you have stacks remaining? It's not like there's ever a reason not to use them.

I think this is one of the reasons I argued hard that SAM's DPS combo should be 3 buttons instead of 8 in the past. I liked the fact that GNB's single-target spender triggered off two buttons that changed contexts based on where you were in the chain. I never want to use my SAM skills out of order, so why not just save some button bloat then and there? Instead of removing my spinny sword oGCD? :mad:

I get that the button press order is part of the intended gameplay or whatever.

Warmachine
Jan 30, 2012



Hunt trains are always hilarious to me because usually what happens is I'll be bumming around gathering or whatever, and then like 50 nerds come pouring out of the aetherite and descend on the zone like locusts.

You can see smaller scale versions if this if you're farming up rare mats on timers. You'll get to a node and see like 10 people loitering around 30 seconds before it pops.

Also, it's a few pages back but it took me almost a year of playing as a tank main before I learned about the Slow effect on Arm's Length, and I wholly recommend ditching the guides for anything short of savage content. With normal content, aside from maybe your first guide or two on what mechanics in general look like, you'll build your skills in knowing what comes next as you experience mechanics and learn the tells for each type of movement. And that skill will remain useful once you've decided to dip your toes into extremes and savages because you'll be quicker to pick up on what the more unique mechanics want you to do since you've already trained your brain to interrogate what a new boss is doing in the moment.

I did Endwalker EX4 blind because two people in my savage prog group at the time wanted to run it and said, "hey lets do EX4 party finder don't worry about what mario kart means you'll be fine." Did I feel fine? No, it was every bit as chaotic as people claimed it to be when the patch first came out. Was I actually fine? Yes, we cleared on the second attempt and I also got my weapon. And site reading the first post-Endwalker MSQ dungeon was tons of fun too. I can probably do the final boss fight blindfolded from muscle memory at this point since I used the fact that the rest of my party all died to mechanics to "grandstand" against it 1v1 until I'd absolutely mastered its patterns.

Warmachine fucked around with this message at 03:39 on Feb 16, 2023

Warmachine
Jan 30, 2012



IthilionTheBrave posted:

I had an opportunity to grandstand the boss of the 85 dungeon on PLD, but declined. I'm fully confident I could've soloed the boss, but I didn't want to subject my party to the tedium. Speaking of guides, I went into that sans guide and with a bit of observation on fellow party members and what hit me I was quickly able to figure out the mechanics. I still kept eating an avoidable hit by getting overearger and Intervening my way right into the danger zone rather than waiting half a second, however. I regret nothing.

I'm also super appreciative of the folks who'll stick around at the end of the dungeon/trial and tell me to enjoy the story after I announce at the start that it's my first time running the content. They're cool people, and I appreciate their patience.

Sticking around to cheer for the sprout is one of the small joys in life.

Warmachine
Jan 30, 2012



bewilderment posted:

Broke: Continuing to solo when the healer dies
Woke: Walking into the fire so you can restart as a group
Bespoke: As Warrior or Paladin, pull the rest of the group, sans healer, through the fight with your own heals and mitigation

Speaking from experience, GNB can do it too. Heart of Corundum (always after Brutal Shell) and Aurora on the DPS when they start getting too low for comfort. Not as easy as WAR or PLD though. Way easier than grandstanding too, because the boss dies faster so you can afford to sacrifice some of your self heal because you won't be taking as much damage in total, so the slow bleed of your own health over the fight becomes less critical.

I've been on the healer side of the equation before too. I've never felt more redundant than when I got flattened during the first 5 seconds of a fight and watched the PLD drag the rest of the group through it.

Playing tank in 14 just scratches all my power fantasy itches. There's enough kit on them that you can pull off some clutch wins when things start to go south, and the cheering after those wins feels so good.

Warmachine
Jan 30, 2012




Foreshadowing the WoL getting integrated into the G-Warrior, Graze Ein style.

Warmachine
Jan 30, 2012



BlazetheInferno posted:

As a WoW refugee, I had fun with the idea that my main from WoW had literally stumbled into a new setting, taking the idea of "WoW Refugee" to a whoooole new level.

Started as a Pugilist, since he was a rogue in WoW and Pugilist kinda comes closest to that out of the starting classes - especially since that WoW Rogue uses fist weapons. Went rogue as soon as I got to Limsa, and its been my "main" job ever since. Though uhh, Jon has definitely become fond of the Gunblade. I enjoy the style, and frankly, that thing is just a really fun new toy for the character. He's sad that he can't take it home with him.

I Died In <current_tier_WoW_raid> And Woke Up In Limsa Lominsa

Warmachine
Jan 30, 2012



Antivehicular posted:

I'm trying really hard to remember any feeling I had about the Gunbreaker quests, but all I'm getting is "yeah, I think I did those? Not missing any skills on GNB. I think?"

The GNB quests are a big nothingburger, which is a shame because I adore the aesthetic and the lore explanation of "You're basically popping aether batteries to trigger magic effects on the fly."

There's some fun ~RP~ poo poo to be had there with the idea of some GNB who has a prepper's hoard of cartridges in the basement because they prep new ones every day like some min-maxed D&D wizard making scrolls from all of their unused spells before going to bed or something. But the class quests say nothing about this--it's all part of the MSQ with Thancred and how Ryne and later Y'shtola are making his carts.

Warmachine
Jan 30, 2012



Funky Valentine posted:

They got to the tomestones in that cutscene and I just completely lost it as a realized that tomestones are just loving Allagan smartphones.

Shadowbringer Opening Orientation Spoiler: It's the pained look on the WoL's face at the sight of the things that really sells it.

Warmachine
Jan 30, 2012



Kwyndig posted:

Think about it, they're iPhones, they come in a bunch of colors, they only have internal storage, and they're eventually landfill fodder.

They're clearly better than iPhones, because they're still valueable to people thousands of years and several apocalypses later.

Presumably, anyway.

Warmachine
Jan 30, 2012



Like Clockwork posted:

I think The Estinien Problem is why they stopped pulling characters from the job quests, which on the one hand is a shame because a lot of them just vanish into the aether (bard boys...), but it also prevents things like the silliness of doing Dragoon 30-50 after Heavensward, or even late ARR.

I'm lucky though, I can get away with visiting Sidurgu whenever I want without having to crack open NG+ just to talk to, say, a middle-aged catboy with a fancy hat.

I personally think this is a non-issue, but I also haven't done DRG yet. If the pact of "these quests happen when they happened, not when you do them" is solid enough, there's zero problem so long as you can reasonably account for the two states the characters could be in.

Now, making DRG and PLD NPCs interact with each other and you is a bigger issue but if 7.0 pulled... I don't know... Ranaa Mihgo from the DNC quests in to do something or another and didn't need her into interact with Constaint from Heavensward PLD or whatever you can minimize the amount of exponential conditions you introduce. Worried you'll miss something? Catch it in NG+ when you get around to it or go full psycho and grind everything to 90.

Warmachine
Jan 30, 2012



Heran Bago posted:

Novice Network was great for asking stupid little questions I could have easily googled.

"easily googled" is doing a lot of work in the age of SEO shovel-article sites and mandatory ten minute youtube videos for a 30 second answer.

I never actually joined NN as a sprout because I had goons to answer my questions, but I stuck my head in on a lark when I had returner status and promptly left again on Excal.

Warmachine
Jan 30, 2012



Vitamean posted:

it's like googling a character name and seeing the top result start with "Glupp Shitto was" like yeah it sucks to learn that your most beloved character dies but does it matter? You don't know the context or when it happens, so whatever.

I've started playing through AI Nirvana Initiative and seen a couple spoilery art pieces on Twitter but it's more now that I'm interested in learning how those characters end up in that situation.

To the people who give a drat about spoilers, yeah, it matters. A lot. Speaking from experience, this argument holds no sway with that crowd.

Warmachine
Jan 30, 2012



girl dick energy posted:

[spoiler]
First, a two-parter about different potential ways to set up your hotbars. (Using 3x4 boxes and Red Mage, because that's what my GF prefers.)


The main takeaway, though, is that it's not important what system you use with your hotbars, so much as that you have a system. Cramming in skills wherever, or, worse, in learn order, is going to make playing any job significantly harder. Trust me. Deal with the initial hump of re-learning muscle memory, and make yourself a system that makes sense for you.

I use a very similar set-up to this. On my left panel is my 'damaging' actions. Things where I press the button and a number ticks on the boss. These are split into a 'single target' and 'AOE' card. For GNB, this only really changes the top row, but it matters more with some other classes. I switch between the two with a keybind that's near my WASD resting place.

My right panel is 'stuff that makes me/my party better.' Buffs, debuffs, other things that don't make numbers tick on the boss. Defensive and offensive cooldowns, resource building cooldowns, utility abilities... all of these are accessed with a modifier key and the panel itself is static.

Finally I have a 'weird poo poo that doesn't map neatly onto those two.' Sprint, my ranged attack as a tank, and other buttons that are highly context sensitive but I want to be able to press in a hurry if I need to or want to avoid accidentally pressing when doing normal actions. These buttons are mapped to the right of WASD on my keyboard. (Press F to pay respects by shooting the boss in the face from 20 yalms lol)

It took me a day of planning, then practicing on training dummies, to retrain my muscle memory, but I like it waaaay better than the default bar arrangements.

Warmachine
Jan 30, 2012



People are generally pretty tolerant of a screw-up or two as well. Every so often you get a rage lord who will tank their own performance by writing essays and arguing in raid chat instead of playing the game, but they can be safely ignored. My personal perspective is that things going wrong can be kinda funny and break up the monotony of something that is usually half-attention rote farming. A bit of light memeing and laughs and everyone starts back up again and fixes the mistake, no harm no foul.

I generally found the game was pretty good about telegraphing why I died when I was a sprout tank, with a few rare exceptions. For the exceptions, just say you don't know what happened and ask if someone can point it out. As a rule people are more forgiving with people who ask questions.

Also, it doesn't hurt to just watch what the main tank does when you're the off tank and have nothing else to do. Sometimes you even learn what not to do that way, right before getting a battlefield promotion to main tank. :laugh:

Warmachine
Jan 30, 2012



flatluigi posted:

it's genuinely great how much the midi bands add to the sense of community of the game

This was one of the first things I saw when I started playing last year as well, and definitely was part of the "I'm staying" decision--when I started, I was firmly in the no more MMOs camp.

Warmachine
Jan 30, 2012



Relyssa posted:

There are two big things XIV has going for it that kept me from going back to WoW like every other MMO did. Being able to do every single thing on one character and basically zero content rot. Level sync is inspired and having the leveling dungeons always there for you to queue into instead of never seeing them again once you've leveled past them is so good.

Triple Triad?

Also they forgot to mention Mahjong! This game somehow has one of the best online clients for it and you can happily play it on the free trial!

FFXIV feels like it took the lessons of MMO history and synthesized them into something cohesive. As I'm writing this, I'm realizing that FFXIV doesn't seem to have many 'parasitic' systems--gameplay loops that don't contribute to and improve the core gameplay. Where they do exist, they don't pollute the core experience. Bozja and Eureka exist, but their special rules don't leak into the main game so you're free to engage with their gameplay style if you want or just ignore it if you don't. To look pointedly at WoW for a moment, the expansions don't add one-off gameplay gimmicks that mean nothing after the next expansion launches. If they do--beyond Bozja and Eureka, the Firmament and Blue Mage come to mind--it doesn't force you to engage with it as part of the primary loop of the MMO genre.

This is something that's really hard for me to nail down without :words: but I think FFXIV absolutely nailed the 'themepark' of the themepark MMO space. You've got the main attraction (the MSQ), and a slew of other high quality rides and activities to enjoy, but there's no obligation to engage with anything other than the MSQ if you don't want to, and the MSQ isn't going to some out of nowhere and say you need to build up a garrison or grind up a legendary weapon to proceed. At least, barring that bit with Crystal Tower anyway. CT is the odd-man-out in my praise here because while I liked it well enough, it does cut against the rule of "you only need to engage with the MSQ, everything else is optional" by putting large-group content in the position of being a gate to MSQ progress. It is the only content of its kind that the MSQ forces you to complete--otherwise the MSQ keeps you firmly in the realm of 4-man dungeons and 8-man trials, the selection of which are generally very low pressure.

And with the development of the trust/duty support systems, there's a non-zero it manages to square the CT-shaped circle. The positives and negatives of this notwithstanding; I'm only looking at it from a consistency of experience from Level 1 to Level 90.

Just to dunk on WoW one more time before finishing this post, (Shb/EW spoilers) Azem's crystal could have super easily become a Heart of Azeroth style doodad instead of existing as 'just' a plot macguffin and fuel for 10,000 fan theories. But it didn't because such a thing would have added nothing to the core FFXIV gameplay experience and probably actively detracted from it.

Warmachine
Jan 30, 2012



I'm one of the weird contrarians that generally hates fishing minigames--the only one I've ever clicked with was Stardew Valley.

...but maybe I'll consider trying fishing. If only to see Fish Zone.

Warmachine
Jan 30, 2012



Synodic Scribe did a good video on job stones and the lore of jobs a ways back. I don't remember what spoilers are in it, so let your taste for those guide whether you watch it sooner or later.

Warmachine
Jan 30, 2012



Mesadoram posted:

:hmmyes:

Fishing is also a pretty chill thing to do while waiting in queue :unsmith:.

This is another reason I haven't done fishing.

That's a joke about tank mains having short queues.

Warmachine
Jan 30, 2012



1stGear posted:

Welcome to Shad- wait, hang on, not yet.

This is a meme in itself. All of it. All of it is Welcome to Shadowbringers.

I posted in the main thread, but I fired up the game for the first time in months last night and oh god my muscle memory has betrayed me. The returner icon next to my name is doing some heavy lifting right now. What are buttons? Rotation? Never heard of her! It's like being a newbie again, with even some hits of tankxiety for a veteran "all tank all the time" player!

I should do an MSQ replay to get back into the swing of things.

Warmachine
Jan 30, 2012



Feldegast42 posted:

MSQ required trials seems on the list given the 89 trial had it so I can see that being their next big push

Thematically also one of the best trials to give that treatment.

I did start falling back into looking things up before I went in for normals and such, though I did P11 and P12N blind and didn't do (too) poorly. Button presses still feel clownshoes to me though, and I know I couldn't pull off some of the dumb tank bullshit I could prior to my break yet.

Warmachine
Jan 30, 2012



1stGear posted:

Yeah, the only time tanking can be tricky is in the earlier dungeons before the "two packs then wall" design philosophy became entrenched. Even then, as long as you're pulling at least two packs at a time, most people won't cause problems.

This video is pretty shitpost-y, but its also a pretty succinct guide to everything that matters about tanking.

Lucy Pyre is a living shitpost, and she's absolutely wrong about tanking and main character syndrome (don't let anyone take it away from you, you beautiful blue brick), but she's right about Arm's Length. Any tank who rotates through all their mitigation, including the secret Arm's Length button, will have the healer fawning over them. Or the healer will be bored out of their skull because they don't have to do anything other than mash glare and kinda feel redundant. I guess.

I've gotten more "wow I usually have problems healing gunbreakers" comments than I've gotten commendations, I'm pretty sure. The secret is pressing Heart of Corundum on cooldown and remembering Arm's Length exists.

Tekopo posted:

DPS taking non-lethal damage is extra mitigation!

Yes. Someday I'll make a Tanking Onion shitpost, but one layer of the onion is simply 'don't lose a party member' and the next layer after that is 'don't lose all the party members.' You've only failed if you wipe. And if the wipe is funny enough, it's not a failure. And even then, oh no you might need to spend an extra minute in here. The horror.

The only way you can be kinda good at something starts with sucking a little at it. So get out there, put a brick on the accelerator, and lead your party into wipes. You'll get better each time, and the worst thing that'll happen is some dude you'll never see again starts malding in party chat. I was going to say that the worst thing that can happen is everyone leaves silently and you don't get any commends, but no. The malding dude isn't doing DPS while he's essaying about you, and I guarantee the rest of the party will be so fixated on him being the load that they won't give whatever tiny mistake you made another thought.

Warmachine
Jan 30, 2012



GilliamYaeger posted:

The duty support healers are also competent enough to carry you through double pulls reasonably well if you rotate your mitigations properly, so you can use that to get comfortable with the concept.

I'd argue they're just bad enough when doing wall pulls that they force you into the proper mindset for rationing your cooldowns properly while making sure you use all of them. It's an amazing practice tool even after you're comfortable as a tank to break yourself of bad habits, because the combination of a middling healer with a group that never heard of AOEs means you'll be taking damage far longer than you will in a human party, forcing you to eek out all that extra EHP to ensure you can stay up long enough for the NPCs to reduce the pack size to a sustainable number.

Warmachine
Jan 30, 2012



Dareon posted:

ShB patch trials: I was not expecting a giant robot fight. Moreover, I was not expecting it to be good. I've played entire games in that subgenre that had worse mechanics than that solo duty.



The Werlyt plot is legitimately the best Gundam game I've played, and it's not even a Gundam game.

GilliamYaeger posted:

I hope you enjoyed it, because THAT'S THE ONLY TIME YOU EVER GET TO PILOT IT!

Yeah! They give you a giant fuckin' robot with a complete moveset and you only ever get to use it the one time! It's infuriating!


I'm still mad about this. Praetorium was bold enough to have an entire mech section too. They know how to do it. They just didn't.

Souls, gravity, etc.

Warmachine
Jan 30, 2012



:yikes: And I didn't read this page before posting. Let me make my point by analogy to tabletop.

If you're a DM and you're running a story-based political intrigue game, but your players want a hack-and-slash dungeon crawler, you have two options. You can run a hack and slash dungeon crawler, or you can find players who want a political intrigue game. If you persist in running the intrigue game with this group despite the fact that the other people at your table aren't enjoying it, you are the rear end in a top hat.

There are people out there who like to take dungeons nice and slow. Find those people, group up with them, and have a good time! But that's not the social norm in duty finder, and if you are inflicting that on others beyond a reasonable* period of time learning your class, it's time to take a step back and either head to duty support or find a group of friends who actually want the slower pace.

*: 'Reasonable' is heavily subject to interpretation, but generally speaking it is understood that people will be awkward at first and get more comfortable pushing the pace as they gain experience with the class. You could absolutely exploit the fact that your duty finder group has probably never met you and just say "I'm new!" every time, but this is roughly as scummy as the DM in the analogy above because now you're lying about it to justify making 3 other people conform to your playstyle.

Warmachine
Jan 30, 2012



S.J. posted:

Do you see this a lot? I think I've maybe encountered this once, although the person didn't ever say anything in chat.

This was literally the person we were bagging on in the thread. The argument boiled down to "I want to go slow, you don't pay my sub."

Bruceski posted:

People who by their own admission right in the post don't understand tanxiety trying to explain to people with it why it doesn't matter is hilarious. Like most fears it's not a logic problem, you can't get over it by being told to get over it.

It's scary. You're in the spotlight as the lead of the party and in your eyes everyone else has these ideas of how things are "supposed" to go and you feel like you simultaneously have to measure up but can't. And people are quick to share their horror stories (I have them too) of party members who, despite the game's reputation, turned to abuse. It's difficult to get a sense of perspective without experience. The only way I've gotten over my own is getting in there and doing it and the world not ending. One step at a time building my own confidence.

IMO you kinda fell for the same thing you were criticizing with the rest of your post. It's one thing to mechanically know that you've got all these tools and have empirical evidence presented that your fear is irrational, but as you say it isn't rational and if we're really trying to dig at the heart of tanxiety you should probably take some tips from things like CBT instead. Things like analyzing what your fear is, why you have it, and if you can reframe it somehow.

Like Clockwork posted:

That's what you think

I have gotten disoriented multiple times in the most linear dungeons/alliance raids, and it sometimes happens even in the very few dungeons I've done to the point where I can tank them in my sleep. You underestimate the capacity of the human brain to suck poo poo at an extremely basic task.

There's a few spots that always get me here until I glance at the minimap and realize I'm running into the same dead end I ran into the last three times.

Allarion posted:

It's cause the spotlight isn't on them, and it won't be obvious it's on them outside of veteran healer/tanks noticing they're having to push more buttons, which also is nonobvious, since the healer/tank can assume it's the other one not pushing their buttons before realizing it's the DPS not pushing their buttons.

And as one of said veteran tanks, is really obvious when things aren't dying as fast as you expect and you start looking at what other people are doing. I had one particularly memorable Castrum run where the BLM didn't know what they were doing, and the TTK and resources I could see on the party frames made this obvious. Like most cases, I just kinda bit the rag and forged ahead, and maybe made fun of them in FC chat. But mostly in a "this poor BLM" way, because I have no experience as BLM and could not even begin to think about how to offer advice.

To sum up my thoughts on tankxiety chat though... tanking isn't for everyone, and that is fine. This is the new player thread, not the new tank thread. It's just that the overwhelming majority of "oh god I'm scared" posts come from people thinking about tanking. I feel like DPS is my weakest role personally, and I like tanking more than anything else, so I'm happy to offer my experience to help assuage fears.

That said, I can't help someone who does not WANT help. I can't help someone who is going to dig their heels in and commit to staying exactly where they are and refuse to push themselves past their current comfort zone. And I take a specific ire when said person wants three other random people to conform to that without the prior choice to opt-out. Which is what duty finder is. There's a set of social norms involved in doing roulettes, and a steadfast refusal to even try to adapt to those norms suggests that either the role or the roulette format isn't right for that person. Which is fine. FF14 has a lot of classes, and another role might suit running roulettes better for this person. Save the slow-burn tanking style for running with like-minded friends if that's how you want to play. But attempting to tell three other people you were randomly matched with to play in a way that runs contrary to these norms, when your reasoning is "because this is how I want to play" is outright rude.

People never gave me poo poo for wanting to take it slow when I was new to 14. I'd say, "Hey, I'm new, I'm taking it a bit slow. Let me know if there's anything I should know." And people would be like, "Alright cool, hey this boss has a mechanic and you should do..." and it went great. I got more comfortable, started being able to push myself further, eventually to the point where I could tank at the level set by those norms. I kept pushing myself further because that's what I like, and performing impossible feats of survival is part of the tank class fantasy for me.

I honestly can't remember if there was a time where someone was an actual rear end in a roulette because of something I did as a tank. I vaguely recall a time when someone just tilted off in party chat and I fired off a vote kick which instantly succeeded, but that might just be a fever dream of mine, or me thinking of another game.

Anyway, the point of this screed is that if you're not interested in trying to resolve the anxiety and grow as a tank, maybe tanking isn't for you. You can't force yourself to do something you don't want to do, but in the case of a tank this is like playing a healer and refusing to use damaging spells because your role is 'healer.' If you don't want to learn and improve to the point where you can play the role the way it is designed, you should take a step back and ask yourself if that role is actually the role you want to play. This...

Lazer Viking posted:

Im just gonna go ahead and keep not tanking. ggz

...is a perfectly valid answer to that question. Maybe not the most satisfying one, but FF14 has a SHITLOAD of stuff to do that isn't 'be the tank.'

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Warmachine
Jan 30, 2012



Zanael posted:

The rude one is the person expecting every tank to speedrun dungeons and pull everything.
Yes it's the "norm" from roulette goers perspective because they want their daily dungeon to go fast (and they are probably the same fuckers who disrobe in alliance roulette to avoid any interesting content), but not wanting to do multipull is perfectly fine and at no point is it egocentrism "you don't pay my sub". You all need to realize you don't get always matched with other roulette players who are 90 on every job.

Hence my comment that telling people that you're new/learning/whatever generally works. My beef is that the person in question does not seem to want to try and get past the problem, and wants three people who did not sign up for that to conform to them. Read the rest of my post.

poo poo, I'm not even 90 on every TANK job, let alone the rest of them. So that's some quality straw you've got there.

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