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Oct 27, 2022 10:12
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Hello, I am here also. Well, I am at work for a while longer.
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Nov 7, 2022 16:54
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Binus would never lie about being town, checks out to me.
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Nov 7, 2022 17:12
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WindwardAway posted:##vote HCT My dude, I posted yesterday. I can't tell if joke phase is ending already. Unfortunately I'm not particularly musically gifted so I don't really know what I can contribute to the singalong here.
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Nov 8, 2022 13:07
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WindwardAway posted:On a more serious note, I'm not a fan of how Monathin seems to be making excuses already for being wrong on reads. I don't know about that. I get what you're saying but I don't think it's weird for someone to feel apprehensive if they've been out of the loop. Besides, I don't feel like voting a relative newbie D1 either.
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Nov 8, 2022 19:49
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I don't have any good reads either at this stage, really. Somehow I'm starting to get a better feel for how binus plays though and this feels like town binus, somehow. Who knows, maybe it's a ruse and he finally decided to flip the script and cash in, but right now I'm not seeing it.
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Nov 8, 2022 23:41
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WindwardAway posted:Have you seen scum!binus? Just wondering what your point of reference is. Stellaris 2 and Multiverse, but mostly the former. He just cruised there and didn't stick his neck out. But more importantly I got a feel for town binus in Masons behind the scenes and this probing of random people seeing how people react feels like what he did that time.
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Nov 8, 2022 23:49
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For what it's worth I like posting gimmicks... up to a point. It can get to where it obstructs reads, but we're not there yet. That said my reads on wologar and Cloaca are pretty neutral right now either way. I'm not sure what to think of the Meenwagon right now. It ties in with Hal, but Hal is one of those people I can't read very well. What little I've seen makes me think Hal can lurk as either town or scum so I don't really know what to make of that. Monathin's concerns feels vaguely towny, but: Monathin posted:See for me it's less about those being alignment-indicative (although I agree with you that neither is alignment-indicative) and more that the mere act of putting it out there feels performative. Deliberately putting on a show to try and look less interesting. My emphasis; this is interesting mostly because it's coming off the heels of being accused of doing the same thing by downplaying the quality of your own reads, just before. Still, this isn't exactly damning. I'm a little worried about Meen picking up votes so quickly, too.
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Nov 9, 2022 11:06
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Illusionis posted:So yeah, this is the same joke I did in LMM I have forgotten what joke this was, care to explain? I mean I was in that game but it seems to have totally slipped my mind.
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Nov 9, 2022 13:41
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Oh, that joke. Sorry, the quote threw me off and I thought it had something to do with "my role is lame" or whatever. Yeah, the "kill all the non-euros" was so obviously a joke I just skimmed right past it. Illusionis doesn't strike me as scummy right now, certainly not for that, anyway. Not enough to go on though, pretty neutral in my book still.
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Nov 9, 2022 13:59
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Top choice of Tom Lehrer songs, by the way.
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Nov 9, 2022 14:01
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I do think Illusionis seems to be putting effort into analyzing the game which feels a little more town than plain neutral, I guess. But man, the lack of information day one is a tough one for me. I am a bit pinged by Windward because I think she's been throwing out some pretty aggressive votes without much justification, but I suppose that could just be pressure votes looking for reactions. That's what I interpret binus as doing, and he does feel towny to me so I guess I should extend the same courtesy there. I'm not terribly convinced to vote either Iggy or Hal to be honest. I mean, I will if the alternative is a no-lunch. Cloaca is sticking out a little as not actually posting much content, but again, it's day one, there's not enough there to make any good calls.
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Nov 9, 2022 15:16
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... okay, why? I at least understand why you would vote Monathin but nobody has much as mentioned MSRR so far.
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Nov 9, 2022 15:25
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b-minus1 posted:You don’t find that to be suspicious? As in nobody is talking about him because scum don't want to draw attention to him? I don't know, I could see why his hypothetical scum buddies wouldn't want to do that but there are presumably ten other people in this game with no particular reason to avoid talking about MSRR if they found him scummy. Personally I'm still pretty neutral there, not a lot of content yet. More to go on would be nice, though. MSRR, who scum?
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Nov 9, 2022 15:35
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WindwardAway posted:I've thrown out exactly two votes. One on you during joke phase, and one seriously on Meen more recently. Why do you think that's aggressive? That first one didn't feel like a joke, not gonna lie. Bah, maybe I'm omgussing this. I do have to admit I'm not a fan of Iggy's number posts, but I don't know if I think that's necessarily scummy. He did the same thing in Isekai 2 as town.
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Nov 9, 2022 16:29
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My Second Re-Reg posted:I don't understand the logic around here when it comes to not having a read. Man I sympathize with this. Add a sprinkling of "oh so why aren't you voting anyone yet?" and that's just me D1.
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Nov 9, 2022 16:57
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WindwardAway posted:wasnt their point moreso that they didnt want players to skirt under the radar with gimmicks, though? at least thats what i got out of it Also, this. I think wondering about whether people might be trying to use post gimmicks as a way to avoid posting content is a valid thought to have and not irrelevant, even though it might be a bit early to come to any conclusions about that. I am definitely going to start wondering about some people if it keeps up D2, though. (Hey, at least it ain't the [admittedly hilarious] emojiposting from Gnosia!)
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Nov 9, 2022 16:59
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WindwardAway posted:I said Hal is a null so far and that I think Meen is scummier. I'm not forcing the Hal case. Okay, but you still keep bringing it up, even though you're calling it a "null" read. There are like 10 other people in this game, why Hal specifically?
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Nov 9, 2022 19:51
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Monathin posted:As someone who loves cases thrown at me: Why do you think binus is voting me? Binus likes to vote weak cases just to see who reacts to them, or so he told me in Masons. I think that's why he's voting you. That might be why he pushed Re-reg too, but that's not the vibe I get for some reason. I don't know, this is gut stuff and I'm notoriously bad at that, especially D1, but this is vaguely pattern matching what binus did as town the last few games I saw him.
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Nov 9, 2022 20:33
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Okay, great, now it's a three way tie an hour before deadline. I don't like any of this movement at all, it feels like someone is trying to get us to no-lunch or axe some random townie again. That said, I don't like the Meen wagon either, so this has me real anxious about who to vote. Illusionis started that one so I guess that's who I prefer to prevent a no-lunch, but if he flips town I think there's something fucky going on. Last time this happened in Stellaris 2 scum kept narrowly avoiding the axe off of poo poo like this.
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Nov 9, 2022 22:18
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Monathin posted:IME votes swinging during the last hour is rarely scum and usually townies being stupid and second-guessing themselves Well I'm definitely second-guessing myself. If this is a last minute scum swerve it has to be to avoid lunching Iggy, but on the other hand, that's following off the heels of Iggy claiming that random wanderer thing which seems like an odd progression for scum to want to do, on top of Iggy feeling more like tired town to me now than cornered scum. On the other hand, he could be lying about that role, or just parts of it. But if he is cornered scum, then the swerve is weird again. Somehow I can't piece this together, help me out here.
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Nov 9, 2022 22:34
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Hal Insandenza posted:Who is the mysterious non-voter? Ugh, it's me as always because I can't loving commit. I have a real bad feeling about this, and I don't like being the hammer, but I don't want a no lunch and I don't think Iggy is scum, so ##vote Illusionis
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Nov 9, 2022 22:45
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Man, that was kind of a cool power Bif had. I guess Maerlyn wasn't content with making up roles for 13 songs, she wanted more work. As for other night action stuff, I did not receive any kind of message last night, for what that's worth. This is really making me doubt Iggy, though, message or no, because yeah turns out last-hour swerves always end up with some random townie getting killed instead of scum. If Iggy is really scum then there's got to be more scum on that Illusionis wagon; Bif is dead, so Monathin, binus, Iggy, Lotus, Cloaca. Need to read some stuff. wologar posted:HCT, you hammered Illusionis because you were not feeling Meen. I'm torn. I'm back in the territory where if Iggy is scum, then this was a swerve and as mentioned there's probably scum on that wagon. But if he's town, then that's pointing more towards Lotus being scum and the second swerve was to get away from Lotus getting lunched. The question I need to answer for myself now is to what extent Illusionis flipping town makes me feel worse about Iggy. I think I need to read some of the EOD votes and who voted what when because no matter what there was some kind of fuckery going on there.
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Nov 10, 2022 22:17
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Lotus Aura posted:Speaking of, HCT when you're here, why did you hammer Illu instead of Meen? You said you didn't think Meen is scum then, sure, but you also repeatedly called Illu town beforehand as well, so what changed there? What changed was we were 10 minutes to deadline and a no lunch always sucks, so what was I supposed to do? There were no other wagons to choose from so I went with Illusionis because I thought Meen was more town than Illusionis.
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Nov 10, 2022 22:18
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Monathin posted:- Scum, imo, would likely have voted Lotus ('light bus') and then switched off at first opportunity. It's not 100% this happened but I want to analyze votes to find correlations there if they exist. We know Bif was on Lotus, as well. So I've been thinking along these same lines too. The people who had ever voted Lotus were binus, wologar, Bif and Cloaca; binus's vote was very early though, early enough to be a joke or pressure or probing vote or whatever you want to call what binus does. But I'm also going back to thinking about this: b-minus1 posted:I’ve had my eye on lotus. I’ve got lotus and rereg at the top of my scum list But then he never does, even when the wagon on Lotus is building up, and then he votes Illusionis instead? I'm not sure I buy this "oh dear did I never unvote? whoops" thing today. I mean I thought binus was town, it's true, but that excuse is kinda flimsy when he had ample opportunity to break the tie and vote Iggy if that's who he preferred. I need to read more of wologar and Cloaca's posts I think, I'm a little wary about wologar seemingly want to suggest me and Iggy are scumbuds today (without Iggy even flipping yet, we don't know that he's scum and I'm still 50-50 that he isn't). Feels like trying to see if anyone is willing to go along with that case. Need to read Cloaca more. I'm not sure the obsession with Windward's obsession with Hal is the weirdest thing to want to ask about, honestly.
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Nov 10, 2022 22:36
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Hyper Crab Tank posted:... he had ample opportunity to break the tie and vote Iggy if that's who he preferred. This was supposed to be Lotus. The tie in question being between Illusionis and Lotus.
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Nov 10, 2022 22:42
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WindwardAway posted:Well, that clearly wasn't the case. Like I said, it's moved the needle a bit towards "might be scum after all" but that's contingent on the idea that there was a late day scumswerve to keep him from getting lunched. But now with Lotus in the mix I'm thinking about the possibility that that was the lunch scum wanted to avoid, and I think binus's mismatching words and actions regarding that vote is suspicious. There's also what Monathin brought up about Bif clearly being suspicious of Lotus, although her being confirmed town doesn't mean she was right, either. So the end result is that, yeah, I'm kind of ambivalent on Meen now. It's nagging me that we might have swerved off scum at the last moment and part of me wants to know for sure, but I think there's more fuckery to be unraveled surrounding that EOD before we start voting anyone out.
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Nov 10, 2022 22:52
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WindwardAway posted:Lotus is on my radar too, but your suggestion of suspecting Lotus over Meen when you're also the one who hammered Illu looks pretty partnered with Meen, ngl. You know as well as I do that Lotus was not an option 10 minutes before deadline. I'm not going to risk a no lunch. It was Meen or Illusionis. If I chose incorrectly, fine, but don't go insinuating poo poo when we don't even know Iggy's alignment for sure.
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Nov 10, 2022 23:15
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Yeah, because frankly I'm starting to feel like you and Windward are echoing the same sentiments all of a sudden. From where I'm sitting we could just as easily be sitting here having the same conversation except instead with Iggy and Illusionis swapped and it feels like a lazy, cooked-up argument to cast shade on the guy who hammered rather than looking at the people who started the wagons in the first place.
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Nov 10, 2022 23:20
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Actually, you were talking a lot about Lotus without actually voting them for a heck of a lot of day one (besides an early joke vote), then did vote them but didn't stay on the wagon:wologar posted:
wologar posted:Shakes the ground in agony the Lord of Lies wologar posted:Beelzebub has a devil put aside for me: ##vote Lotus But about Monathin. I admit I wasn't reading his posts very closely day one because I wasn't going to vote him anyway. But I like his posts today - he seems to be reading and scumhunting. So I'm getting towny vibes from Monathin today. I don't know what to make about whatever binus is doing though. I thought I understood him a little but that's starting to unravel.
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Nov 10, 2022 23:31
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Okay, this is really weird though isn't it. Clearly either Iggy or Hal are lying (or both?). What I'm having trouble with is understanding why. I mean we should probably wait for this:Ignatius M. Meen posted:What was the song reference? Before delving too deep into it but my initial thought here is this: If Meen is town, then people are already making GBS threads on him for saying he was blocked. I think scum would be happy to just ride that suspicion and see town!Meen mislunched. So if Hal is scum, why fake a message that only makes Meen look better if it checks out? Especially when you might get called out in exactly the quoted way. But if Hal is town, and telling the truth about the message, why would Iggy lie about being blocked earlier? The obvious idea is that Meen is scum and did something else last night, but then how would town!Hal end up with a message? If you're both scum this could all just be a dog and pony show, but it's one that draws attention to both of you as potential liars that that seems weird to me too. There's also the missing Meen message - you said you target two people, right? Are we sure there aren't any other messengers around and that's where Hal's message came from? Or, hell, even worse, a befuddler? They seem to be all the rage these days. Okay, I don't want to dig too deep into this rabbit hole before we see what Hal has to say about this song reference.
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Nov 11, 2022 09:43
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Lotus Aura posted:Pretty sure the more obvious and simpler solution here, if both are telling the truth, is that I/my target got jailed (let's be real, it would probably be me there) and one of Meen's actions ended up there as well. No need to overcomplicate things by presuming even more moving parts absolutely must exist. That does account for the second message, I suppose. Or it could have gone to Bif who can't testify either way. But there's a still a contradiction between Iggy saying he failed and Hal saying he got a message. But you're right, we should wait and see.
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Nov 11, 2022 09:59
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Right, well, pending more info from Hal the only other thing off the top of my head is that two claims of people being blocked doesn't have to mean two roleblockers, there could be other reasons something failed (for example, someone targeting a jailed person, as already brought up). It's hard to see the shape of that from the information we have though. Also, I'm kind of wondering now why some people seem eager to jump on Meen when he said he was blocked but don't seem as eager to jump on Lotus for saying the same thing. Either one of them could be lying about being blocked, or telling the truth. It doesn't even necessarily have to be indicative of alignment:Monathin posted:Honestly and truly, my gut tells me it's probably being an off-siter. I have played games off-site before that do have scummy town roles (I cut my teeth on EpicMafia, where Drunk aka Town RB was quite common) but I haven't seen one in a SA Mafia game in a long-rear end time. Hence my hesitance to believe there's a town RB when it's not very usual for SA at all. I agree that a town roleblocker is a little out there, but a town jailer isn't out of the question as a variant doctor with a downside (because it blocks townies while protecting them) but can also occasionally catch out scum (by blocking the person doing the NK).
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Nov 11, 2022 10:31
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Other thoughts not related to any of that:Cloacamazing! posted:Iggy then voted himself, so I took that opportunity to see if anybody was going to jump on that wagon. Several players did, including GDE: I kind of wish everything didn't hinge on whatever is going on with Meen, but assuming he is town, then I think the seal has a point here. GDE has not been posting much or offered a lot of opinions about what's happening, especially D2. The jump onto the Meenwagon feels opportunistic. Lurking always seems scummy to me though, and that hasn't always resulted in a correct lunch, so right now I think mainly I would just like to see more activity from GDE. But if the lurking continues then I think we should start thinking seriously about this case.
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Nov 11, 2022 11:08
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WindwardAway posted:I jailed Lotus last night, you guys are probably right and Meen must've hit my jail. And you're saying this now? What's the holdup? And why Lotus? Either way this doesn't convince me Lotus isn't scum, it just means they didn't do the nightkill.
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Nov 11, 2022 13:02
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Cloacamazing! posted:With most stuff like a busdrive or masoning this would cause the entire action to fail, but in this case it might still work? Well if Hal is telling the truth (and Iggy has yet to confirm that), then at least one message arrived at its destination. So in that case, the action as a whole can't have failed. So then, unless Maerlyn literally told him "Your action failed" when it was actually partially successful, Iggy lied when he said his action failed. But I don't understand why. I really want to hear whatever this is Meen's holding back that's supposed to explain that.
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Nov 11, 2022 15:05
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Ignatius M. Meen posted:I have the ability to mark someone at night. Only one mark may land successfully in the entire game, and [...] I can dayvig the target anytime after that if they're still alive. (My redaction for clarity.) So the role that you previously referred to as "slightly meh" and that left you in a mood to not care much, is a dayvig? Forgive me, but at the very least you seem to have a vastly different idea from me of what a cool power is if that gets a "meh" from you. And what was with lying about your action failing and not mentioning any of this? You're still saying the messenger is random and that you don't know who you wander to, right? So what was the point of playing coy about that?
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Nov 11, 2022 17:20
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wologar posted:- You know who your RNG targets will be before you assign the actions. That's not how I interpreted what he said, although he can clarify himself. I read it as Meen decided himself randomly between Re-Reg, Hal and Lotus for who to mark and the dice or whatever came up Lotus. And then the wander part of his action was just actually random and he doesn't know who he hit.
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Nov 11, 2022 17:21
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Well, whatever you're going to do, just don't sit on it until the last hour of the day so we have to scramble to make sense of it and turn it into a vote. Anyway, my head was not in mafia last night, but even with fresh eyes this morning I feel like the game has kind of stalled. It feels like we're crawling our way towards an apathy lunch again. GDE is looking worse for having nothing to say for an entire day now, but she could just be absent and I still want to see anything from that direction before I start thinking about any votes. I don't know what to make of Iggy/Hal, but I think the "trap" set by Iggy was never going to catch anything to begin with, there are too many reasons why a reply could be late. In the end it looks like Hal was telling the truth about the message but that's not a strong indicator of anything. I guess it does makes me feel mildly better about him since there would be no reason for scum to bring up the message when Iggy was already looking like a liar and heading towards a mislunch, but overall Hal is still neutral in my head.
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Nov 12, 2022 08:40
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| # ¿ Apr 27, 2024 22:40 |
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It's not that I think GDE specifically is an apathy lunch so much as that it feels like all the momentum kind of drained out of the game yesterday while waiting for the Iggy/Hal thing to resolve and it didn't pick back up overnight. I think GDE's lurking is potentially scummy, but I've been burned by mislunching people who were simply not posting for unrelated reasons. If she doesn't pop up before the end of the day though there are certainly worse lunches. As for the entire Hal/Iggy ball, it's more complicated than just being neutral on it. I want to think Iggy is town, but between the two he's the only one who has definitely been lying about stuff from the start. Like I said, if Iggy is town then scum!Hal wouldn't have any reason to bring up the message rather than just let Iggy look like a liar. If Iggy is scum then scum!Hal also doesn't make any sense because it just draws attention to the two of them and, ultimately, makes Iggy look like a liar anyway. So, this makes me feel towny about Hal, but Hal is hard for me to get a grasp on vibes-wise - in particular I have a really bad grasp on what separates his scum games from his town games. I haven't seen much of either, it feels like he stays under the radar no matter his alignment. Scum suspicions right now come down to the same as before: I think Lotus pushing Illusionis was bad, as has already been covered. I think binus's "whoops didn't mean to vote Illusionis, oh dearie me" thing is suspicious and people are kind of forgetting that happened - myself included. I feel like I thought I knew what binus was thinking D1 but that has evaporated too, I don't have any idea what he's doing today and I'm worried that if binus is scum then he's just coasting by on saying random stuff while people ignore him, basically a noisier version of what GDE is doing. I think wologar trying to make a deal out of me hammering Illusionis over Iggy might have been an attempt to find a scapegoat for the D1 mislunch (when there were six other people contributing to that, come on) and overall wologar's posting has been kind of evasive. None of those are that strong reads, however, which contributes to the feeling of apathy, I guess. I'm really bad at just reading people based on vibes and I don't feel like I have enough information to make a clear call. I do feel that you (Monathin) are probably town, for what it's worth, mostly based on the level of engagement.
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Nov 12, 2022 09:27
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