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Figured with the new year (and new mods), this is a good time to have a feedback thread. Also, the rules thread is over 13 years old now, so might be a good time for a reboot. Although I don't have any particular problem with any of the rules, would definitely like to hear any suggestions. Personally, I really like the communal knowledge/expertise we have here. I've been reading threads I haven't before (we all do tend to stick to our bookmarks), and been impressed. It *might* be good to figure out how to get traction on new threads in BFC, although the forums as a whole have tended to go toward just megathreads. And I'm not sure there is anything really inherently negative about that. But I would appreciate any thoughts on how to get more people to our megathreads, and be a bit more active. Contests? Who can get the most credit card signup bonuses in a year? Best/worst stock pick? Largest dollars/point redemption? Lowest mortgage (lol good luck)? The mod buttons don't offer a ton as far as prizes, but can definitely figure out av/title changes, platinum. Any threads need rebooting? We should all read the OPs (someone reminded me I needed to read the op of the BWM thread, and I did actually, thanks). There is good stuff in those posts, but some of them are definitely ancient. Link to the current rules thread - https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3240231 Maybe we need to explicitly add "don't post like an rear end in a top hat". Although for the most part that has gone without saying here, and isn't really much of an issue. People (including me) get salty from time to time, but I think the draw for our subforum is talking about how we are going to be better with our money and careers and help each other, not the drama. Along the same vein, there's a "don't use racist/sexist/ableist slurs" rule on page 3 of the old rules thread, which I think can probably just be encompassed by "don't be an rear end in a top hat", and left to our discretion (I know it when I see it!).... but happy to hear other opinions.
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Dec 31, 2022 23:09
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I concur with all that baddog said above and am also quite interested in comments from posters regarding how they would like to see rules or moderation change around here (if at all). My one regret so far in modding is in too quickly closing a new thread someone opened after politely redirecting them to the appropriate megathread. We need more new threads. Please open new threads! In that particular thread that I closed, I thought some people may come at the OP since it kinda came off as a humblebrag (and we had an on-topic megathread). But I should have let it run its course and saw whether that happened:  One thing I've learned as a mod is that, after seeing the most common reports we get, people really do want posters to be more civil, less rude, and generally not to have jerks in threads. So I fully back the explicit "don't post like an rear end in a top hat" rule and plan to be more pro-active in modding on that front. But I also appreciate that passionate presentation of one's opinions is important in BFC discourse, and that this is a comedy forum. So as baddog said, a lot of that will inevitably be left up to the discretion of the mod reading the post.
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Dec 31, 2022 23:18
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quote:Maybe we need to explicitly add "don't post like an rear end in a top hat".
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Dec 31, 2022 23:27
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Sorry for spamming almost all the megathreads with links to here. I do figure a lot of folks are silo'ed in, and wanted to get it in front of everyone.
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Dec 31, 2022 23:47
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Getting new people to consistently post in BFC (or mega threads here) is hard because a lot of people only post here when they have whatever finance issue to come here and post. Some of that is just what it is imo. That said, the biggest thing that added people to this forum that I’ve seen was when the bad with money thread would “go on tour” for whatever time frame in a different thread. I don’t know that you can even duplicate it, but that’s the main way I’ve seen people join BFC. The other is posters making individual threads. Personally it seems like there have been way less individual threads than in the past, but that could be coincidence , and also the threads go very quickly into pissing in the well (I’m very guilty of this). I have no idea what the solution is here.
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Dec 31, 2022 23:54
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I probably have never read the rules page. Most everyone is cool and the threads seem to move along fine. IF you want to update stuff that is fine but if you don't I doubt we will notice or be offended. moana posted:Look, if you want to permaban Motronic, you can just go ahead and say it. This gave me a real good chuckle.
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Dec 31, 2022 23:59
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Move the house thread to its rightful home in the diy subforum. Perma anyone who disagrees.
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Jan 1, 2023 00:04
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In the spirit of creating new threads, several of the existing megathreads have horrendously outdated OPs, sometimes from folks who aren't active on SA anymore. It may be worth taking stock and seeing if there are volunteers to set up new thread OPs.
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Jan 1, 2023 01:14
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I agree with a general “no assholes” rule. Also the BWM thread should be allowed a long leash on “derails” because the nature of that thread is to be one large derailment. If we fixate on a single subject for too long you should bring back the collective punishment of being banished to the relevant subforum for a week. That was really funny. Finally, I’d like to see another rental property/landlord thread as long as it can be closely moderated for brigading and threadshitting.
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Jan 1, 2023 01:17
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Baddog posted:But I would appreciate any thoughts on how to get more people to our megathreads, and be a bit more active. Contests? Who can get the most credit card signup bonuses in a year? Best/worst stock pick? Largest dollars/point redemption? Lowest mortgage (lol good luck)? The mod buttons don't offer a ton as far as prizes, but can definitely figure out av/title changes, platinum. I had fun running contests when I moderated BFC, but they also kinda turned posting into "work" and made me not want to have the role anymore. That said, the type of contests I ran were fairly labor intensive on my end, things like "get every subforum to nominate their favorite dog and then host a forums-wide vote on the best dog." You can probably be smarter than I was about doing things that are a little leaner, thereby preserving your sanity a little more. Maybe see if somebody wants to run a BFC sheep game? Those are always fun.
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Jan 1, 2023 01:28
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What about a subforum like project.log, TFLC or Musician's Lounge for people to post threads about their own situations? The main forum looks megathread-centric so that might be more inviting to people who want to log their own situations/projects.Discendo Vox posted:In the spirit of creating new threads, several of the existing megathreads have horrendously outdated OPs, sometimes from folks who aren't active on SA anymore. It may be worth taking stock and seeing if there are volunteers to set up new thread OPs. This is a good idea. e: At least one of the megathreads listed in the OP of the rules thread is archived. Those should probably be updated. ultrafilter fucked around with this message at 01:43 on Jan 1, 2023 |
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Jan 1, 2023 01:38
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therobit posted:Finally, I’d like to see another rental property/landlord thread as long as it can be closely moderated for brigading and threadshitting. I'm personally sympathetic to this viewpoint but it's just not worth the trouble IMO. There would be no end to said brigading and threadshitting (not to mention trolling and gimmicking) from the D&D/CSPAM crowd and it's not practical to ban half the forum users over it. I honestly think BFC is great as-is and no major changes are necessary. Can't hurt to explicitly add Don't Be An rear end in a top hat to the subforum rules, but it's already a Something Awful Forums rule so it doesn't really require reiteration. Megathreads are just The Way It Is in TYOOL 2023. I would love to see more individual threads, but I'm not sure if adding an extra necessary click (by way of a separate sub-subforum for the purpose) to post a thread about your personal finance problem would actually encourage people to do that. Eric the Mauve fucked around with this message at 01:54 on Jan 1, 2023 |
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Jan 1, 2023 01:47
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Eric the Mauve posted:I'm personally sympathetic to this viewpoint but it's just not worth the trouble IMO. There would be no end to said brigading and threadshitting (not to mention trolling and gimmicking) from the D&D/CSPAM crowd and it's not practical to ban half the forum users over it. It is extremely practical to ban the users who do brigading, trolling and threadshitting. They should not be able to dictate the scope of discussion, and if they do it here, they're also doing it elsewhere; and giving them control occurs at the cost of everyone else that they drive off.
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Jan 1, 2023 01:56
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I don’t think the forum particularly benefits from encouraging a place for landlords to congregate. Anyway I mostly follow the corporate and negotiation threads and they’re fine, no issues. The only thing I’d say is the negotiation thread is maybe the most valuable thread on these forums and that fact should be communicated more widely.
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Jan 1, 2023 02:01
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I normally only read/post in a small handful of threads here but I've no complaints about their moderation (they haven't needed any, as far as I can remember). IMO you probably don't need an official subforum-specific rule about not posting like an rear end in a top hat.
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Jan 1, 2023 02:02
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Eric the Mauve posted:I'm personally sympathetic to this viewpoint but it's just not worth the trouble IMO. There would be no end to said brigading and threadshitting from the D&D/CSPAM crowd and it's not practical to ban half the forum users over it. Yeah, there's simply no way to make a landlord thread work, IMO. The brigade crew has a fair point re: how hosed up the status quo is for housing in the USA, and the landlords have a fair point re: making money off their investment under the current economic system, and the thread's never going to turn into anything other than a big fight between those two irreconcilable facets. It'd take so much moderation that it'd just not be worth it for anyone, poster or mod. Whether it's fair to BFC to prevent that or not, I think it's the unfortunate reality. quote:Can't hurt to explicitly add Don't Be An rear end in a top hat to the subforum rules, but it's already a Something Awful Forums rule so it doesn't really require reiteration. The problem with "Don't Be An rear end in a top hat" in this forum is that we have a lot of long-time BFCers who have seen the same threads play out again and again. We (I'm guilty of this too) piss in the well instinctively because we're jaded enough to automatically assume it's another GoonWell. Even though it usually is GoonWell, that's still going to put off the exact posters we ought to welcome, namely the ones who actually want to get out of their own personal wells. Broadly speaking, I think blank-slate rules (like D&D's rule to assume good faith argument) don't really work. However, BFC is small enough that we don't have a ton of new threads and dumbass arguments every day to bog down with a rule like that. I'd be up for biting my tongue and trying it.  All in all, BFC is awesome. I'd prefer keeping personal threads in the main forum, and that'd also add more new threads and activity anyway.
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Jan 1, 2023 02:02
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Yeah, it would be nice to have things be perfect, but don’t have a landlord thread it just won’t go well.
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Jan 1, 2023 02:12
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Duckman2008 posted:Yeah, it would be nice to have things be perfect, but don’t have a landlord thread it just won’t go well. We just need an even more rage-inducing thread to distract everyone from it. How about a thread about running a HOA?
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Jan 1, 2023 02:14
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moana posted:Look, if you want to permaban Motronic, you can just go ahead and say it. Honestly while I think you guys had some problems in some threads (apparently you're having a minor crisis over it? I haven't seen it personally) I haven't seen a huge issue in the threads I frequent. This "crisis" however seems to have pressured a lot of moderators into heavy handed moderators. If you want to be heavy handed with people registered after, arbitrary date, 2018, fine. Anyone who registered before 2012 I probably recognize, and so long as they don't trigger a 2+ page flame war, moderation is unnecessary in most cases; we're all adults and can shut down conversation without moderation. Moderation is good when you've got someone who is a hazard to themselves and thread discourse, but as we all age into our second decade of poo poo posting, let the thread handle bad posting. I'm not sure moderators need to jump into the fray when the thread is already busy correcting them. I'm ok with sixers, but anything longer ought to be rationed except for the worst repeat offenders (typically obvious) or where the thread opinion is weak or thin
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Jan 1, 2023 02:14
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PurpleXVI posted:We just need an even more rage-inducing thread to distract everyone from it. How about a thread about running a HOA? "The Union-Busting and Environmental Regulation Avoidance Thread"
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Jan 1, 2023 02:25
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The landlord thread we had was absolutely fine for years and then all of a sudden certain subforums started leaking and the decision was made to close it instead of enforcing rules against threadshitting. What I would propose would be to ban and if necessary permaban anyone who brings that poo poo over here.might be a hard couple of weeks but I think it would be better given there is no QCS anymore to stir up drama. If you keep the discussion about the legalities and practicalities of managing rental properties there’s no reason for it to be contentious.
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Jan 1, 2023 02:42
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Hadlock posted:Honestly while I think you guys had some problems in some threads
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Jan 1, 2023 02:43
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Absurd Alhazred posted:"The Union-Busting and Environmental Regulation Avoidance Thread" Oddly enough, this acronym would be Uberats, a good name for anyone who scabs against a driver strike!
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Jan 1, 2023 02:58
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Sundae posted:Oddly enough, this acronym would be Uberats, a good name for anyone who scabs against a driver strike!  I swear that wasn't intentional!
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Jan 1, 2023 03:12
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H110Hawk posted:Move the house thread to its rightful home in the diy subforum. Perma anyone who disagrees. Sorry buddy, anything over 10-15% of the average goons net worth is investment, not a hobby. So, that being said, we're going to have to take the Lego thread now.
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Jan 1, 2023 04:53
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I'm currently happy with the accounting thread. One think I would appreciate is a more detailed Opening Posts about all goon recommended knowledge on the field, how to get in, if you even want to and other tips.
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Jan 1, 2023 08:30
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How about a blanket ban on "six-figure-salary me is working class because I live in a high-COL area" declarations because Americans lose their poo poo falling over themselves to one-up/one-down each other, accuse each other of insane levels of privilege, poo poo on particular places, or just turbonerd out about what constitutes a high or low cost of living.
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Jan 1, 2023 10:10
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Also, reboot all megathreads every quarter or every year at least, just so that new people can come in and start reading without a daunting several hundred pages ahead of them. I don't set foot in SH/SC because the first page is almost entirely a wall of decade-old threads.
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Jan 1, 2023 10:12
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Weatherman posted:Also, reboot all megathreads every quarter or every year at least, just so that new people can come in and start reading without a daunting several hundred pages ahead of them. I don't set foot in SH/SC because the first page is almost entirely a wall of decade-old threads. Really strongly disagree with this.
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Jan 1, 2023 14:05
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Yeah, don’t reboot yearly or whatever. But maybe re boot every 2-4 years ?
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Jan 1, 2023 14:22
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I think rebooting is only really needed if the OP is out of date for some reason (OP wants to move on or is no longer around). Otherwise, the OP can kinda refurbish the OP with new info. Is having 10k posts actually a hindrance to someone who wants to ask a question? Assuming they ask something not covered in the OP they hopefully won't get too much flak when they do, even if the question is bad and dumb. I mean, it is SA; we don't want it to be too welcoming, after all. edit: I say this, but two other "chat style" threads I followed (Steam and RLM) are apparently rebooted annually, so maybe that's more of the criteria?
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Jan 1, 2023 14:51
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Mods can edit the OP with changes from thread regulars if necessary. Unless the page count gets totally out of hand (which doesn't happen ever in BFC) it's really useful for people to be able to search the whole thread if they have a particular thing they wonder about. No one's going to read an entire huge thread before posting anyway, it doesn't make much difference if it has 40 pages or 400 in that regard. At most they'll use the handy Search This Thread box for whatever particularly interests them. It's nice to have all the info from over the years in one thread, IMO.
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Jan 1, 2023 15:18
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I'm in favor of another landlord thread, sub 3% APR mortgages will be minting a bunch of reluctant first time landlords and needs to be separate from the other two home owner threads Would need at least two IKs at inception because yeah cspam will leak in there and ruin it pretty much immediately Eric the Mauve posted:Really strongly disagree with this. +1 Mega threads may be rebooted every 7 years, on an as-needed basis, but only due to exceptional need
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Jan 1, 2023 15:31
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Eric the Mauve posted:No one's going to read an entire huge thread before posting anyway, it doesn't make much difference if it has 40 pages or 400 in that regard. Lurker-oriented posters will, but they would enjoy the extra long threads... What is the situation on moderators / admins being able to advertise a thread via the banner ads? That might bring people to the negotiation thread, which is probably the most valuable one here to goons across the forum, and it might eventually get people to check out some of the other threads as well. I love the idea of touring threads, but I think that works better for the BWM one than the more "serious" threads. Zero interest in a landlord thread. It will become garbage, not just on what's the obvious brigading side, but there's gonna be people in reality or trolling to push the slumlord side of things as well, to see how far they can take their asholery. It will not attract good posting. Edit to add illustration: Exactly how long do you think it would take for someone to come, at least to play-act, an Arkansas landlord taking advantage of that state's "no warrant of habitability" legal system to push the thread to either stick with "legal advice" for some extremely garbage scenarios or to draw a forum-specific set of minimum laws we will chose to give advice on, something that at minimum is a bit more humane & fair. Wherever the line is drawn, there will be endless exploration of the exact edge of it and it will take up 99% of the mods energy until they all burn out. jemand fucked around with this message at 16:23 on Jan 1, 2023 |
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Jan 1, 2023 16:01
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Duckman2008 posted:That said, the biggest thing that added people to this forum that I’ve seen was when the bad with money thread would “go on tour” for whatever time frame in a different thread. I'd like to hear more about this -- mods temporarily moved the BWM thread to a new subforum when its derail went too far into that other forum's topic? That sounds like a good way to both kick the BWM thread in the rear end and eventually get more readers of BFC. That said, when baddog and I were huddling together on duties, there were two clear problem threads based on shitposting and reports: the donut thread and the BWM thread. I took the donut thread and he agreed to be primary mod of the BWM thread. So how to handle it will largely be his domain. Discendo Vox posted:In the spirit of creating new threads, several of the existing megathreads have horrendously outdated OPs, sometimes from folks who aren't active on SA anymore. It may be worth taking stock and seeing if there are volunteers to set up new thread OPs. I did exactly that in some of the larger and more active megathreads about a month ago. As a result, several OPs were updated and other threads declined to request any updates. I would be more than happy to edit in updates to OPs or reboot threads as the thread regulars see fit. Just point us to the needy threads (thanks). On the more general topic of megathread reboots, that's somewhat divisive (as seen in other posts in this thread). Agronox's new stock thread OP is a great example of a reboot for a thread that often has time-sensitive discussion: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=4018317 It contains fresh educational links and links to prior iterations of the thread for people who want to search them. The long-term investing thread, on the other hand, rarely has "new" ideas to discuss and in that case we just edited in an updated OP. However, I do think rebooting threads (if they preserve links to past threads!) is good to generate fresh discussion and would be happy to help any megathread reboot if there's a willing cadre supporting it. therobit posted:Finally, I’d like to see another rental property/landlord thread as long as it can be closely moderated for brigading and threadshitting. I am indifferent on the existence of a landlord thread, but if people did create one, it would need its own IK because I will not be babysitting it on an hourly basis watching for brigading. I am not a landlord. I will never be a landlord. But I do understand that the recent low mortgage rates have created a situation where some older goons inevitably own multiple properties, or have moved out of their primary residence for other reasons yet do not wish to sell it. Further, it should probably be a generic 'real estate investing' thread rather than a landlord thread. Sometimes people just... buy property. If someone wants to write a new real estate investing thread OP and also be the thread IK, please send a PM to myself and baddog with your draft OP and case for the thread and IK-dom so we can discuss. Later in the thread, Sundae (most recent BFC mod) mentions that a landlord thread is unworkable due to brigading/factions, which biases me against allowing one. It'd take a strong draft post and levelheaded poster to persuade me. No promises. pig slut lisa posted:Maybe see if somebody wants to run a BFC sheep game? Those are always fun. What's a sheep game? ultrafilter posted:What about a subforum like project.log, TFLC or Musician's Lounge for people to post threads about their own situations? The main forum looks megathread-centric so that might be more inviting to people who want to log their own situations/projects. We're already a subforum, I don't think we'll be adding any sub-subforums. The rules thread OP is, yeah, outdated. baddog and I decided to gather feedback in this thread before updating or replacing the rules thread. It's on the TODO list. Jordan7hm posted:The only thing I’d say is the negotiation thread is maybe the most valuable thread on these forums and that fact should be communicated more widely. Glad you like it -- not sure how to better advertise it other than word of mouth in other subforums, but I'm open to suggestions. Sundae posted:Yeah, there's simply no way to make a landlord thread work, IMO. The brigade crew has a fair point re: how hosed up the status quo is for housing in the USA, and the landlords have a fair point re: making money off their investment under the current economic system, and the thread's never going to turn into anything other than a big fight between those two irreconcilable facets. It'd take so much moderation that it'd just not be worth it for anyone, poster or mod. Whether it's fair to BFC to prevent that or not, I think it's the unfortunate reality. yeah, overly harsh GoonWell response is an issue. Not just in BFC -- I see it in other subforums, too. It's just a thing, posts sometimes touch a triple point between funny, useful and rear end in a top hat. But anchoring firmly in the rear end in a top hat sector just doesn't add value of any kind to the thread. Baddog posted:Sorry buddy, anything over 10-15% of the average goons net worth is investment, not a hobby. agreed Annointed posted:I'm currently happy with the accounting thread. One think I would appreciate is a more detailed Opening Posts about all goon recommended knowledge on the field, how to get in, if you even want to and other tips. If someone wants to write out useful edits for the OP, or even draft a reboot, please post in accounting thread and we'll get to it. I forget if the OP is still there and posting and willing to edit it him/herself. Weatherman posted:How about a blanket ban on "six-figure-salary me is working class because I live in a high-COL area" declarations because Americans lose their poo poo falling over themselves to one-up/one-down each other, accuse each other of insane levels of privilege, poo poo on particular places, or just turbonerd out about what constitutes a high or low cost of living. humblebrags might rightly get poo poo on but let's face it, people are sometimes gonna discuss money and salary in this particular forum. whether job-hunting, making five figures, or six, I'd like to hope people can participate in discussion. /points at "don't post like an rear end in a top hat"
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Jan 1, 2023 16:21
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jemand posted:Zero interest in a landlord thread. It will become garbage, not just on what's the obvious brigading side, but there's gonna be people in reality or trolling to push the slumlord side of things as well, to see how far they can take their asholery. It will not attract good posting. Yeah, finding the edge between "how not to get screwed over by a terrible renter" and "how to screw over renters terribly" is going to be difficult and no two people will agree on where the correct edge is.
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Jan 1, 2023 16:30
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Baddog posted:Sorry buddy, anything over 10-15% of the average goons net worth is investment, not a hobby. DONE.
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Jan 1, 2023 16:43
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pmchem posted:What's a sheep game? The game leader asks a bunch of questions related to the subforum's subject matter, and players try to guess the answer that the most other players will also guess. Looks like AI just wrapped one up if you want to check it out.
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Jan 1, 2023 17:44
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quote:Later in the thread, Sundae (most recent BFC mod) mentions that a landlord thread is unworkable due to brigading/factions, which biases me against allowing one. It'd take a strong draft post and levelheaded poster to persuade me. No promises. In fairness/disclosure, the last landlord thread was under Moneyball. I wasn't a mod yet - I just watched the disaster with popcorn. 
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Jan 1, 2023 20:29
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It'd be nice if we could have a landlord thread but realistically it's going to lead to drama somewhere no matter how well you police it. Maybe you can keep it out of the thread itself, but that comes with a high risk of issues elsewhere.
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Jan 1, 2023 20:32
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