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Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011

PT6A posted:

With all due respect, I don't think government structure is the problem, I think it's that the people who make up the government in each case are in one case, sane, and in the other case: complete loving lunatics.

the australian liberal party is not famed for its sanity

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Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011

it seems like a straightforward continuation of their previous practice of writing up model legislation to dismantle corporate regulation and undermine labor unionization.

ation.

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011

Bar Ran Dun posted:

Schedule F.

Theyíre gunna purge the government this time. They started to at the end last time, but they started too late (the order was Oct 2020) and didnít manage reschedule anybody by Jan 2021.

It will not be a straight forward continuation.

you mistook my meaning, but it was because i did not make it clear.

it is entirely believable and should be taken seriously (and literally, etc.) because it is a straightforward continuation. purging the regulatory state has always been one of the main goals of the heritage foundation and the american conservative movement in general. schedule F is model legislation in every sense but the most obnoxiously literal. the main difference is that trump and the trump-lite presidential candidates want to make it a big flashy sudden purge rather than the "starve it until it's weak enough to drown in a bathtub" approach of reagan, gingrich, etc. i don't know if that would be more damaging or less than the erosive approach of previous republicans but i'm also not dying to find out.

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011

Bar Ran Dun posted:

I think understanding it as continuation is dangerous. Itís a fascist party now. I think there will be a qualitative difference in behavior.

i think you might be catastrophizing things but i dunno for sure. politicians promising and planning to do something is not the same as actually doing it, and campaigning is pretty much always more ardent than actually governing. wanting isn't having in politics, as i'm sure any observer of american politics knows, even if sometimes it feels like democrats are forever the political equivalent of the washington generals.

all that said, trump quite effectively nuked and paved the judiciary with the coordination of the federalist society and i think that's a big part of why republicans all eventually fell in line. it's more believable that conservatives who have qualms about centralizing power would line up behind a plan like Schedule F, to do something conservatives have wanted to happen for decades. you called the difference qualitative. i disagree: it's quantitative, grabbing the whole pie all at once. that is fascist, to my mind. mainstream conservatives deciding they can work with the far right to get what they want has a pretty bad history and you're right to invoke it i think.

what i am sure about is that republicans running on loving up the regulatory state is that it is a continuation of one of the most effective ways they've been making day-to-day life worse for decades. every big watershed republican success has been built on a pile of incremental regulatory and judicial changes that had already built that success in a de facto way for much of the country. even if you read the "decisive" action as hot air and find Trumpstaffeln to be far-fetched, the fact remains that even a failed attempt to grab the whole pie that only gets a handful still leaves a huge mess. the most cool-headed take is that republicans have a plan to run the federal government like florida and that's pretty bad news!

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011

Bar Ran Dun posted:

It is obvious it is trivial. So are you naive?

i am agreeing with your conclusion and emphasizing that it does not rely on your weaker supporting arguments. you're right to bring up florida, and i think that kind of orban-style guided democracy is where the GOP wants to head. (if you wanna call that fascist, i guess i see where you're coming from, but i think it's a different kind of mess.) i think it's more likely that's where this is headed, where the government is structurally incapable of functioning to do anything but harass minorities and political opponents unless one party controls every branch.

you are saying it's a torrent of literal human poo poo, i'm saying idk maybe it is and maybe that's catastrophizing, but it's definitely a flood of raw sewage, and even just a single wave of raw sewage is awful.

koolkal posted:

He was a big advocate 20 years ago of invading and bombing multiple countries full of brown people in the Middle East and not much has changed.

Does anyone have any actual real evidence that he isn't doing what he truly believes? I've seen numerous posters try to argue this without any actual evidence, just vibes.

this war is blowing up his efforts to build on top of the abraham accords and reconcile the US's allies in and around the ME

Cease to Hope fucked around with this message at 01:43 on Nov 20, 2023

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