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Skex
Feb 22, 2012

PostNouveau posted:

I don't know how they can impanel a jury that won't hang on one juror who refuses to convict their god-king. Even in Manhattan.

That's the trillion dollar question.

That said the people on the grand jury, regular Americans who have actually seen the evidence and heard the testimony decided that there was sufficient evidence of Trump's guilt to convince another group of regular Americans to convict him.

Now a grand jury decision doesn't have to be unanimous and as far as I know we don't know what the vote spread was so that definitely leaves the possibility of jury nullification but that is part of the design too as it provides a check against unpopular/unjust laws.

This is our system working as designed with checks and balances, this is basically an example of how the United States justice system works under ideal circumstances. Because indicted isn't convicted and Trump will get his day in court and will have representation (I was going to say really good representation but then remembered that he's known for not paying people) but he will definitely have better representation than the average American who ends up in our judicial system.

I think that is the point that the Left, Liberals and Democrats need to be hammering constantly. Braggs didn't indict Trump, the grand jury indicted Trump, a grand jury consisting of regular Americans, which is literally the check against political prosecution. Because the assumption is that if the prosecutors are trying to move on weak or fraudulent evidence the grand jury can refuse to hand down an indictment, kind of like what happened with most of the actual weaponization of the judicial system during the Trump administration.

Of course we all know that a grand jury will generally indict a ham sandwich if a prosecutor asks them to which is why there is the additional check of the jury trial. In which the accused gets the opportunity to undermine, contradict and cross examine all of the evidence and witnesses presented by the prosecution. It's no secret that there are many flaws in our justice system but the vast majority of those flaws are due to the power imbalance between the state and the accused. The average American doesn't have the resources to mount a truly effective defense but Trump isn't an average American he's a rich white dude and the system is designed to protect rich white dudes.

That is why we end up with what is effectively a multi-tiered judicial system those who have the resources to mount a competent defense and those who do not and unsurprisingly this results in far different outcomes.

Trump is in the first group which is of course why many of us are apprehensive about the eventual outcome. That said the Trump organization has already been convicted of felonies so it is certainly possible to find a jury that will convict.

Finally this is just the first and arguably the least serious of legal problems Trump faces, the Georgia case where the evidence is a literal phone call recording where Trump committed the crime in plain language. Then there are the biggies, the documents case where there is clear and blatant evidence that not only did Trump mean to take those documents but also understood that he wasn't supposed to have them and further took deliberate actions to mislead the government in order to maintain possession of said documents. On top of that there's the matter of his efforts to overthrow our democracy as well as the possibility of crimes that aren't already known to the public because you know that what we're seeing is literally the tip of the iceberg of Trump's criminal career.

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Skex
Feb 22, 2012

Kalit posted:

Eh, put me in the skeptical camp until there’s an actual charge filed…

DeSantis tricked and basically kidnapped and human trafficked immigrants to score political points, arrested people for voting and engaged in countless petty abuses of power to punish his political enemies,

Wtf would you give that Nazi piece of poo poo the benefit of the doubt?

Skex
Feb 22, 2012

Class3KillStorm posted:

Really makes Roberts' refusal to testify about Supreme Court ethics violations in front of Congress make sense. In a sane world, this would be where the Dems come in and put forth legislation that enacts an outside ethics board to interact with the Supreme Court, similar to how lower courts behave today; would also be a good time to revisit that whole "expand the size of the court" thing, to try and minimize the impact that the obviously corrupt Conservative judges can have.

Sadly, we do not live in a sane world, and Dems won't even try to message about this in the run up to 2024.

I don't get where y'all come up with this "Dems won't even try to message" there are Democrats all over the news criticizing the court over this, the act of asking Roberts to testify is them messaging on it.

Roberts unwillingness to testify and try to defend this poo poo demonstrates his corruption. The problem with actually holding SC Justices accountable is that 67 vote threshold for impeachment and the fact that Republican voters refuse to punish them for their corruption.

The only way to fix what is broken with our country including the court is for people to loving vote in a way that makes it clear that they won't accept the corruption. The problem is that apparently voters are perfectly fine with it.

At this specific point in time that means voting for Democrats. Yea they suck and are spinless and all the usual gripes about them but they are all we have. Because for the Fash corruption isn't a bug it's not even a feature it's the whole loving point.

Because ultimately power is the ability to do things without negative consequences. Republicans aren't interested in oversight and stopping bribery and corruption because their who mission is to return to a world where rich powerful men can do whatever the gently caress they want. That's why they hate Feminism so much, because if you strip all the extraneous bullshit conservatism is about sex and dominating women.

That's why they are against abortion, birth control, universal suffrage, diversity, welfare and pretty much anything that gives women options that aren't find a man to protect you then put up with whatever abuse he subjects you to because the alternative is to be at the mercy of any powerful men in your vicinity.

This state where women actually have rights and agency is a new thing in human civilization and the conservatives aren't having it.

Skex
Feb 22, 2012

selec posted:

The problem with this is that we can’t even seem to get justices on the court that agree they should have stronger ethical guidelines. All nine justices signed onto this:

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/9-supreme-court-justices-push-back-oversight-raises/story?id=98917921

Honestly we need investigations into all of them, if we can’t even get “our” (lol) justices to say something in the face of the naked corruption their colleagues engage in. Put Kagan in the barrel if that’s what it takes to prove the institution itself is corrupt.

Once again the only way that's going to happen is if voters force it and that's never gonna happen as long as the Republicans remain fascist and hold enough power to block any accountability.

And yeah I get that Democrats can be corrupt as well. But at least some of them make noises to suggest they're amenable to the idea, Republicans are straight up hostile to the idea that rich and powerful people should be accountable. And basically until they have been beaten down to a regional non-factor in politics the Dems are the only chance we have. Because for some reason the Left decided to disarm and avoid military service while the CHUDs eagerly signed up.

In the end it's really loving simple, either you are against the Fash or you are the Fash and they are armed and trained. Make fun of their tactical bullshit all you want but the left is not prepared for street fighting, not when the cops are going to side with the Nazis.

Because if we can't stop them at the ballot box we're going to be fighting them in the streets and a lot of people are going to be hurt and killed if it comes down to that and it's not going to be people who deserve it.

Skex
Feb 22, 2012

BiggerBoat posted:

FL resident here:

I don't think it is/was just Disney. Steel mills, car factories...Amazon's new werehouse had states and cities bidding for the "opportunity" and all the "new jobs". Sports team owners routinely shake down major cities for stadium development and taxpayer funding. It's not new.

Granted, probably none of those examples are on the SCALE of what Disney did/does in Florida, but that also includes the vast amount of income they bring into the state.

It's a weird hill for DeSantis to die on because "free market" and "corporations are people" and "party of small government". It's like Iowa going after Big Corn or maybe Texas loving around with oil companies and none of it really jibes with the stated GOP agenda. You can read about them head scratching over it and trying to conflate what Ron is doing with their hands off approach to business.

It's even weirder for me because I hate DeSantis as well as Disney.

It's hilarious to me because I know that any "wokeness" on the part of Disney is pure PR camouflage over an amoral money generating machine that exists purely to fatten it's shareholders wallets. I think that the reason the Fash hate it so much is because it falsifies their whole "go woke go broke" premise.

Capitalism for all it's many flaws when left to it's own devices is really good at determining relative value of things. Disney and other corporate behemoths acting "woke" means that doing so will generate more $$$.

I work for a major telecom, a real deal too big to fail company. And our official internal corporate culture is ever single thing that Republicans rant about being woke. It's not because the executives are a bunch of bleeding heart liberals or closet Marxists. It's because they data driven sociopaths who only care about the bottom line.

Which means that even the heartless sociopathic system that the Right worships rejects their ideas.

Skex
Feb 22, 2012

FlamingLiberal posted:

To me, the Fed is ignoring the fact that they don't have control over the parts of the global economy anymore that are causing these inflationary issues. Those at this point seem to be things like the global supply chain mess, Covid, the Ukrainian War, and housing/apartment prices. If anything they are going to make things worse regarding new home construction by raising rates. When I hear about the biggest issues with people in the US's financial issues, in general the biggest problem is that it's not affordable for most people to pay the rent or mortgage prices that are being demanded. I do think there is some slowdown in the rising rent rates in some areas, but it's going to take awhile and there's no guarantee that they go back to being affordable again.

Honestly as annoying as it is from a short term political perspective as it's just going to undermine Biden's reelection, it's actually a good thing that they are raising rates.

The Fed has a very limited tool kit for addressing economic shocks. The biggest one being interest rates. We spent way too long at the 0 bound. This meant that the fed didn't have a way to juice the economy by lowering them.

By raising them now while the economy is booming it will reload that quiver for the next economic catastrophe the GOP drops on us.

Skex
Feb 22, 2012

PeterWeller posted:

In years to come, nerds will accuse SA of being a CIA op the way we accuse the Iowa Writers' Workshop of being a CIA op.

What do you mean in years to come.
That already happened like a decade ago.

Skex
Feb 22, 2012

Kalit posted:

Just a reminder that the Floyd protests absolutely did get violent in Minneapolis. 2 people died in burning buildings here

All that and fewer deaths than the average mass shooting that makes the National News. How many thousands do y'all think the average CHUD thinks died in those protests?

Skex
Feb 22, 2012

Byzantine posted:

drat, the people working hard to slaughter humans will hate me. Oh no.

The Nazis were not defeated with words social pressure. They were defeated with tanks, planes, ships trucks and people with guns.

Skex
Feb 22, 2012

Byzantine posted:

Do you cheer for the Russian military since it killed Nazis 80 years ago?

I don't cheer our military, I just recognize it's existence as a necessity in a world where wars are a regular occurrence. In fact the left really screwed up by not joining the military and law enforcement to counter the influence of the Fash in those institutions and the insistence of people like you demonizing anyone in those institutions only pushes those who may be sympathetic away.

Assuming we actually had this magical peaceful revolution where we overthrew the capitalists and established fully automated gay space communism, how long do you think it would last if we then decommissioned our military and disarmed?

We see what autocrats do when they face an enemy they see as weaker just look at Ukraine. Fascists aren't going to disarm and the only language they understand is force so it would be stupid to disarm and make it easy for them.

Skex
Feb 22, 2012

Meatball posted:

All this talk about the 14th makes me think that the dems believe the Republicans are going to shoot the hostage and default on the debt.

Why wouldn't they?
The Republicans have been doing everything they can to cause economic and social disruption, whether it's undermining the regulatory state, or intentionally running deficits by cutting taxes while refusing to budge on military spending.

It's what they, create problems to complain and campaign on then do everything in their power to exacerbate and prevent anyone else from addressing said problem.

They spent decades flooding the streets with guns which naturally results in more gun related crimes and sows a general sense of dread and hopelessness. The ultimate goal of which is to scare enough people that they accept authoritarianism just to bring an end to the chaos.

A global financial crisis caused by them torpedoing the full faith and credit of the United States of America would result in a disruption that would work to the benefit of authoritians worldwide.

In fact I'd argue that the reason why they made sure that their bill is a non-starter for the Democratic Senate or President is because default was always the goal. So yeah it's a more that reasonable to be concerned that the Republicans do plan on shooting the hostage so that they can then campaign on the chaos it caused.

Skex
Feb 22, 2012

Has this actually ever worked for any company? I mean there's a reason Disney sides with the woke mob. That's where the money is. I mean I guess most people who actually watch TV News tend to be right wing but it's a pretty saturated market at this point and the demographic they're targeting calls them the Clinton News Network.

So doesn't seem like a whole lot of audience share, particularly as the few centrists that still watch CNN switch over to MSNBC where they at least seem to be taking the threat of Fascism seriously and not trying to increase the share of the Nazi audience.

Skex
Feb 22, 2012

Harold Fjord posted:

Those societies had to engage in the context of the established capitalist societies. They were forced to compete on those terms or perish


A lot like how companies have to engage in certain shittybbehaviors to succeed in the stock market, actually

Oh the old X can't fail it can only be failed argument. The thing is that the attempts at communist command economies failed to provide the promised result. In fact not only did they underperform compared to liberal democracies operating a capitalist system economically they failed completely on the social tolerance question. After over a half century of communist rule Russia is one of the most bigoted, misogynistic, homophobic nations on the loving planet with China not too far behind.

Meanwhile loving Disney is taking on the Fash while tankies are defending Putin's Genocide in Ukraine.

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Skex
Feb 22, 2012

Harold Fjord posted:

It's not a rebuttal. Maybe that's the confusion a lot of you are having.

This has nothing to do with anything. No one thinks Putin is a communist.

Putin is the product of a communist system, he was raised, indoctrinated and was an eager participant in that system prior to the collapse of the Soviet union and his rise to power. The Soviet union had two generations to shape their society into a pluralistic society and the result of it is something that falls far short of the mark of what was achieved in capitalist States where leftists assure me that all social injustices are caused and maintained by the existence of capitalism.

Also China is still communist and while they have managed to do better on the economic front they sure as hell haven't done so by limiting growth and they definitely fall short on the tolerance scale.

Harold Fjord posted:

Disney isn't "taking on the fash", it's defending it's right to sell to people the fash hate. The fash started it and Disney is showing no signs of intervening in other areas where fash are fishing.


I didn't call them loving Disney because I thought they were being upstanding corporate citizens, I was pointing out that capitalism actually incentivizes the defense of marginalized groups because money is money. Or as MLK said "we're going to boycott Wonder Bread so hard they'll wonder where the money went".



quote:


I'm not sure what this has to do with what I said at all but your axe to grind against communism seems irrelevant


My point is that the focus on capitalism as the source of societal woes is misguided. That the assertion that class hierarchies are a result of capitalism is nonsense. Class hierarchies in capitalist systems are the result of social forces and hierarchies that existed during it's rise.

Even then the very nature of capitalism tends to be extremely democratic in nature as the basic unit of value is literally labor which is why over time there is a tendency for capitalist systems tend towards more inclusive and tolerant systems.

Bear in mind that the majority of capitalist abuse are the result of external non economic actions either legal or military and those tend to be driven by pre-existing power interests.


quote:


What is the evidence that the USSR was in competition with the US? Uh... history.

The argument is multi-polar. Quality of life, military projection, cultural/economic projection, basically any realm where the nations compete to use their influence requires resource expenditure and capitalism tends to favor consuming greedily to fuel future greed. So the US ramps up its engine of consumption and others do their best to keep up within whatever confines they impose on themselves or cast off for the sake of keeping up.

Once again this is just more of the usual x can't fail but can only be failed nonsense.

Skex
Feb 22, 2012

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

Much like Tim Scott, I'm not really sure what Tim Scott is trying to offer or really even running on.

It just seems like a mishmash of vague policies and a refusal to confirm any of them. And then, when pressed to be more specific, he just says, "I'm so good at persuading" and closes the series of questions by telling the interviewer "they are stuck on abortion" and not going to try and convince him.

Just a wild decision.

DeSantis has a short time window and the rest of the other Republican candidates are no-hopers or people who haven't had a career in office for decades, so they at least have a reason to jump on the pyre. Scott had a career in Senate leadership and could have hung around for a while. It makes no sense why he decided to run and even he doesn't seem to know.

Trump needs a new VP and Kari Lake is a loser. He'll pick the sell out from South Carolina so he can go "see I'm not a racist".

Skex
Feb 22, 2012
I think that something that is often missed in the whole Dems bad debate is that ultimately the core principle of the Democratic party is a belief and reverence for democracy as a system of government so don't expect them to flaunt the rules the way Republicans do.

TLDR Summary spoiler tag for those who'd prefer to avoid my verbal vomit expanding on my argument.


The primary ideological divide in the world today is between liberal democracy and authoritarianism. Because ultimately the only alternative to democracy of some sort is might makes right. If democracy can't address these threats within the bounds of its own construct then that validates the argument of the authoritarians.

The entire point of democracy is to replace violence as the means of settling political arguments. Elections are ritualized warfare where victory goes to the side with the most votes and we avoid all the death and destruction that would have resulted from actual warfare.

That's the reason why Democrats will not be doing a Republican and ignoring the rules. It's a recognition that as urgent as everything seems now we have to keep an eye on the future and if Democrats did what Republicans do by just ignoring the rules whenever it's convenient for them that would be an admission that democracy doesn't work.

While yes there probably are plenty of Democrats who are compromised by their reliance on capital for funding or in their own self interest in the case of Manchin I do believe that most Democrats got into politics because they care about making a better world if they just wanted to make money and have power the GOP is right there with much lower standards. They may disagree on exactly how to get there but are aligned in principle.


The Republicans being authoritarians; do not feel constrained by the mechanisms of democracy. Because they don't believe in government through consensus. In fact the reactionary extreme of the Right is outright hostile to the very idea of democracy as an operating principle.

Democracy is messy and imperfect because human beings are messy and imperfect. Yeah a lot of things would work differently without some of the anti-democratic mechanisms like the Senate, electoral college, partisan gerrymandering and such which should definitely be addressed but ultimately we can only progress at the rate that the general public perception changes.

The Right isn't wrong about schools being indoctrination centers. Democracy requires an engaged and educated population to function. And for at least the last 50 years that indoctrination has included the basic idea that all people should have a say in how the world operates. Every state indoctrinates their citizens to some extent and we're no exception.

The Left tends to focus on the part of that indoctrination that is friendly to capitalism but ignore the fact that public schools totally and completely support multicultural inclusive democracy.

What makes democracy work is that if every one feels like they're getting to weigh in on a question they are more likely to accept the consensus opinion. What we call reactionary really is the reaction to their feeling that their opinions are not being heard. They tend live in social bubbles where most of the people they associate with agree with them and not what they are being told the consensus is so they are suspicious of the results either way they don't see democracy working for them so they react to that consensus with hostility.

That's why the culture wars are more important the class wars. Culture wars are ultimately about changing public perception of what's fair and that means changing public opinion on how they view different demographics. When the United States was originally formed the general public perception of those in power was based on who had power at that time thus the declaration of independence says that all men are created equal because at the time only white men of means were considered full human beings. But they left the seed for that to change in the Constitution by referring to citizens as "people" so that as our definition of "people" changed to be more inclusive our democracy was expanded to be more inclusive.

To try and get back on my main point. The Democratic party is the democracy party. It plays by the rules even when the opposition cheats because maintaining the system of democracy is the core goal. That also means that they tend to follow the prevailing culture rather than lead it.

And yeah that faith in the process of democracy is pretty much the liberal position that drives leftists nuts. What they see is a broken mechanism and since they consider it broken they believe that it should just be ignored. Liberals may share the view that it's broken but believe that the system should be used to repair that mechanism rather than just choosing to ignore it so that the public will accept that change.

It all comes down to maintaining legitimacy of the system in the eyes of the public. So that as the laws change the majority favor the change and the rest can grumble under their breath about it.

If the general consensus becomes that democracy can't address our problems then the only alternative is warfare and might makes right and the authoritarians win and historically that works out really badly for those without power.

Skex
Feb 22, 2012

haveblue posted:

It shouldn’t be that hard to “market” raising the debt ceiling as like paying off your credit card, but no one’s even trying

https://twitter.com/RepKatiePorter/status/1660701761923891216?t=qi741nRtmaGH6ZlsDRR9zw&s=19

Yeah no one
And she is not the only one I've heard make the argument.

Skex
Feb 22, 2012

Liquid Communism posted:

I personally hope to see Mitch McConnel catch a prion disease.

I started to write a reply to this but decided that a Secret Service visit isn't in anyone's interest.

Skex
Feb 22, 2012
https://twitter.com/Esqueer_/status/1663624151028908033?t=08hGvHnRwwfzTwrINO_TxQ&s=19

LOL

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

Skex
Feb 22, 2012

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

Can you provide any more context or a summary?

From what I have gathered, she is announcing she says she is "defecting" and that Maria Butina reached out to her to assist her with getting Russian citizenship.

Also, you can't "defect" to a country you aren't at war with. So, I'm not sure what she means in that context. Emigrating?

But, I don't really know why she is doing this from your link and her press statement is just a link to a live video on Russian state TV with no text.

Just because we're not in a declared war doesn't mean that they aren't hostile. And the term defect is what was used all through the cold war which wasn't a declared war either.

I mean the context is yet another supposed leftist horseshoeing into fascism and it kind of makes one question whether they were ever actually left to begin with. You pretty much lose any credibility in my eyes when you move to Russia. This ain't the Cold War and Russia isn't even pretending to be communist anymore. So the only reason I can see that someone would move to Russia at this point is that you support Putin's fascism.

Skex
Feb 22, 2012

Jaxyon posted:

I have no problem believing that the accusations are credible because nobody is a perfect victim and Uncle Touchy Joe is creepy as hell about personal space.

If it turns out to be provably made up, I still won't feel bad for believing a woman vs a powerful man in politics as a sex pest.

The reason I was skeptical of the rape allegation is that abusers aren't typically one and done. It wasn't just Carroll accusing Trump it was dozens. It wasn't an actress accusing Harvey Weinstein once again dozens same with :kav: . The fact that it was just her didn't help her credibility. I mean even with Franken there were multiple accusations of groping.

That's not an automatic dismissal but it's going to be a higher bar given the circumstances and that the timing seemed mostly intended to neutralize Trump being accused of being a serial rapist by putting a cloud over Biden suggesting that he's a rapist too.

This idea that we have to have a signed confession accompanied by a video of a crime to make the obvious inference is bonkers. Her rape accusation was made after it was too late to change the outcome of the primary so we were stuck with Biden regardless whereas the same accusation a year earlier would have given people a chance to change course on their primary preference. So the timing is extremely suspect to start.

Then there's the complete lack of other victims coming forward which is unusual in this circumstances because abusers are generally habitual.

Even then skeptical doesn't mean dismissive, but her falling in with the MAGAts and Quidiots undermines her accusation as well, then literally going to Russia while spouting fascist propaganda.

At this point I'm comfortable concluding that it was just another Russian intelligence op rather than going through some convoluted mental gymnastics to dream up a sympathetic narrative to justify her choice to become a fascist.

Sometimes something is exactly what it appears to be kind of like Trump being a Russian asset.

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Skex fucked around with this message at 22:12 on May 30, 2023

Skex
Feb 22, 2012

Travic posted:

Wait, what? A guy who ran Colbert's show tried to Trumpify CNN? What. Have I had a stroke?

Perhaps he didn't understand that Colbert's character was a bit rather than real.

Skex
Feb 22, 2012

Jaxyon posted:

Colberts current show is not done in character.

Ah I thought Litch was from the Colbert Report not his current one

Skex
Feb 22, 2012

I mean it's not like they have any real defense, besides whataboutism.

Skex
Feb 22, 2012

Adenoid Dan posted:

Trans kids are being prevented from taking lifesaving puberty blockers and possibly removed from supportive families, trans adults are being prevented from getting any medical treatment.

You fuckers are complaining about undemonstrated effects on women's sports from single digit numbers of trans women. What the gently caress is wrong with you guys.

No one ITT is complaining about effects in sports, what's being discussed is how to combat what has been shown to be an effective wedge issue.

Now I personally figure that the people who actually have the data and experience to speak authoritatively on the subject are the actually managing and determining the standards of who gets to complete against who and given that I'm just a dumb Goon I'm gonna defer to them as they seemed to be working through things fine before the CHUDs noticed trans people exist.

But for a lot of people it's something that really bothers them. I know it shouldn't but it does.

The other effective wedge issue however is the subject you bring up about puberty blockers. And I'll readily admit my first impulse is to say that I'm not super comfortable with making changes on that scale on minors. Now I will refer back to my previous statement about deferring to the people who have been researching and studying gender dysphoria and it's treatment for years & that someone who actually knows poo poo has had these these debates and addressed them with actual data.

The reason these are effective rhetorical devices for the CHUDs is that they reinforce the "they're forcing their beliefs onto others" which shifts the moral question from "we're just trying to do what's necessary to address their dysphoria and associated issues" to "they're Munchausen syndroming their kids."

When you start talking about kids and raising them people get real emotionally charged. As it stands right now there isn't really a good concise response.


Sidebar : George Conway just now on The ReidOut "Equal treatment under the law used to be a conservative thing along with" pause "well I guess it was all bullshit"

Skex fucked around with this message at 00:30 on Jun 13, 2023

Skex
Feb 22, 2012
https://twitter.com/mychaelschnell/status/1668975975822942211?t=_yg8HrTHWlOyRC-y5FXk2g&s=19

Gonna be interesting to see what happens with this. That looks like a trial balloon and if I lived in that other time line where Reagan never happened I'd think that such a trial balloon might be a indication that at least some of the money people in behind the GOP are starting to remember what happened to the oligarchs who Putin decided he didn't need anymore.

However we live in this one so I suspect that he'll either come out extra Trumpy in a day or two or decide he needs to spend more time with his family rather than run for reelection.

Skex
Feb 22, 2012

the_steve posted:

What you're ignoring about the whole tribalism thing is that there is ALWAYS an excuse or some sort of cope that means it doesn't count when you lost. Russia hacked the election with their Super Saiyan Ultra Maga technology. The Deep State hid all of Trump's votes in The Swamp.

There's always an excuse as to why it doesn't count against your team after a Loss if you're willing to make political alignment a majority part of your personality.

The insane thing about the MAGA insistence that the election was stolen is that the states that they claim were stolen had Republicans running the elections.

Which means that they are really just mad that those election officials didn't cheat hard enough in Trump's favor.

Skex
Feb 22, 2012

zoux posted:

https://twitter.com/igorbobic/status/1694515887200428538

Oh that's the one conspiracy theory he doesn't believe in huh

Which means that Trump totally had him killed.

Skex
Feb 22, 2012

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:



Trump is supposed to release his full economic plan soon, so maybe there will be more information in there.

I'm sure Trump will get around to releasing his economic plan around the same time releases his Healthcare plan and taxes.

Skex
Feb 22, 2012

FCKGW posted:

Every single state blames Californians for coming in and ruining their state. Nothing is ever a local issue, it's always the people from California that are moving in and messing everything up.
Alas, this is the burden we must bear for being the greatest state in the nation.

I think of it more as our native assholes are enough trouble without having to deal with all of the Galt wannabes moving out here and giving us Ted loving Cruz as a Senator.

Skex
Feb 22, 2012

Orthanc6 posted:

See also conservative "Trekkies" complaining about Trek being "woke" and "political"

Missing the forest for the trees with these idiots I believe is a feature, not a bug.

Conservative Trekkies is just weird on it's face. Starfleet is literally the idealized embodiment of liberal beliefs. A post scarcity society where everyone's basic needs are met without the use of currency and social status is based on individual contribution and merit rather than inheritance genetic or financial.

Skex
Feb 22, 2012

GhostofJohnMuir posted:

i can't even remember, how did covid vaccine hesitancy become a mainstream part of the rightwing beliefs? i remember trump being non-committal, but not vocally hostile. was it just voices like alex jones getting no strong opposition from other right wing figures?

Russian propaganda is my bet.

Who else has an interest in turning America into a divided garbage heap with half the country living as typhoid Mary.

It's not really in the GOP's interest to encourage their voters to increase the chances of removing themselves from the electorate yet here we are. Now not only are people refusing to covid vaccines but we're getting a resurgence of diseases that had been effectively eradicated.

Honestly a biological attack would be devastating because half of our population would deem it a hoax and ignore any evidence to the contrary.

Skex
Feb 22, 2012

Bar Ran Dun posted:

I’d almost forgotten Cain died of covid because he refused to wear masks to support Trump.

There's a whole subreddit dedicated to it.

Skex
Feb 22, 2012

shimmy shimmy posted:

"We couldn't possibly be this stupid, it must be some kind of foreign plot" seems like a hell of a take to just put out there. I personally believe that Americans are a fully capable people who can do dumb poo poo by themselves


Putin's paws are all over the GOP, yeah these divisions existed before but he and his agents are deeply involved in the propaganda.

This isn't just Americans being our typical stupid selves. This is a worldwide conflict between fascists and everyone else. And if some of y'all don't pull your heads out of your rear end the Fash are going to win.

No Putin didn't create the divisions in the United States, that was the billionaires who founded the right-wing think tanks and took advantage of the crack in the New Deal coalition that LBJ created when he shoved the CRA down congresses throats.

But he and his authoritarian allies definitely took advantage of and leveraged those divisions. And the Republicans turned a blind eye to it because they are craven power hungry dipshits.

Notice how all of there attacks on Biden are about Ukraine, specifically the corrupt Putin puppet prosecutor who they are now trotting out as a witness.

Now I'm not saying that without Russian propaganda we'd all be singing kumbayah and passing single payer healthcare. But to pretend that it's not a factor is delusional.

Russia and Putin specifically have been deeply intertwined with Trump world from well before 2016, to the point where the only bank that would loan him money was DeutschBank which might as well be Russian Oligarch and Mob bank.

There was the election interference, the propaganda, the literal espionage against an American citizen as well as their funding of the NRA, we have multiple GOP Senators spending the 4th of July in Moscow meeting Putin. That's not even getting into Russian funding of Brexit and countless other right-wing movements world wide.

Understand my assertion isn't that Russia and Putin are responsible for everything wrong with the United States currently. It's not like the Republicans weren't scumbags before 2016.

But this is exactly what I'd be doing if I were Putin and it's naive to ignore the mountains of evidence of Russian propaganda and influence on the MAGAbase.

I mean where the gently caress do you think all of this defund Ukraine war nonsense is coming from cause it ain't the old right.

If Putin wasn't a major contributor and agitator of anti-vax sentiment I guaranty he wishes he was and even if he and intelligence services didn't start it they definitely amplified it.

Seriously Tuckems has been the mouthpiece for the forces that Putin is leading. Putin fingerprints are over Trump and his MAGAt enablers and it's insane to turn a blind eye to that reality.

Oh and final reminder the Mueller investigation was all Republicans.

Skex
Feb 22, 2012

zoux posted:

https://twitter.com/AndyBCampbell/status/1697289005845409844

There was a lot of the usual kneejerk cynicism about how accountable the insurrectionists would be in the immediate wake of 1/6, but they are throwing the book at these mfs.

For all it's many flaws, the justice system in the United States is glacial in both speed and crushing inevitability when it's used right.

With Trump and his co-conspirators we're seeing how the system is supposed to work. He's being afforded every Constitutional Right available and then some but it ain't stopping until the jury renders a verdict.

It's rich watching how many CHUDs are suddenly so interested in how the justice system fucks over poor people now that their boy Trump is in its grasp.

Skex
Feb 22, 2012

zoux posted:

https://twitter.com/JordanOnRecord/status/1697655526245433745

The animating force behind Trumpism is “I am a dickhead”. Set aside ed, socio economic factors, the most fervent supporters see in him their own assholishness that they resent being forced to hide

Been saying it all along, the only freedom these MAGAts care about is their freedom to be assholes.

It's like all of them blowing up the case of this kid being kicked out of school for having a backpack covered in right-wing bullshit.

https://twitter.com/cboyack/status/1696696889507287337?t=aAAUDmA5MfAxOSvQfLofow&s=19

The Gadsden flag is the least offensive thing on that backpack. It also covers all of their whining about pronouns. I swear none of them have real jobs with real corporations where wearing intentionally evocative attire or intentionally insulting coworkers and potential clients will most assuredly lead to rapid termination of employment.

A huge part of what school does is teach kids to be able to navigate the world, and a giant part of that is socializing them to be able to get along with the people they are going to have to be able to get along with people who may not look or believe the same things.

They're training a generation of kids to fail in life, which I guess works for them as it keeps the number of uneducated poor white people up. It certainly tracks.

Skex
Feb 22, 2012

GhostofJohnMuir posted:

it's my understanding that pepfar is one of the few things we do that actually builds good will for us in africa, seems like this would be a pretty major blow to our foreign policy efforts on the continent for some culture war signaling the average gop voter won't even hear about

Everything Republicans do makes America weaker. This is very on brand for the "America First" party that always puts Americans last.

Skex
Feb 22, 2012

Lib and let die posted:

Sorry to just drop a tweet and run, but I'm still reeling from being laid off, and this is definitely newsworthy w/r/t US elections.

Our rough estimates from the union are that ~25% of the affected workers were unionized workers like myself.

https://twitter.com/OrganizerMemes/status/1699462319892246652

Not on the same level but my employer (just think synonymous with telephones) ended work from home on Labor Day. (was probably September 1st but for me it was literally labor day) either way Labor Day weekend which is honestly just a flex on the bosses part telling us "we own you".

It really feels like the oligarchs all just collectively decided that us peons got too uppity and it's time to put us in our place.

All the media media empires sacrificing billions to avoid paying the actual workers and creators millions. After deciding "ya know rather than provide value to our customers to encourage loyalty we're going to just stick a bunch of content into boxes in the vault.

And of course the so called News media marching us steadily to fascist apocalypse with their bullshit bothsides "who can say who's right, yes we have video evidence but the Republicans just say it's a false flag, who could possibly decide which is true"

Skex
Feb 22, 2012

yronic heroism posted:

What I’m saying in my earlier post is even the no-immunity option is better for him than a trial because his consequence is only two misdemeanors that won’t affect his life much and now he’s very likely going to end up with felony convictions because DOJ wins way more than they lose. Yes he only came to their attention because of politics but that’s out of his control and he’s probably underestimating the risk he’s now in. But this guy is no stranger to high risk behaviors.

Correct, it’s described further here:

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/19/us/politics/inside-hunter-biden-plea-deal.html

The reason why the DOJ tends to win is that they don't charge what they can't prove.

Also has there actually been an indictment? Because as I have been telling MAGAts, the grand jury process is one of the checks against political prosecutions. And this is the one of the most blatantly obvious political prosecutions in American history.

So I'm still interested to see if they can actually get a grand jury to indict.

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Skex
Feb 22, 2012

yronic heroism posted:

Sounds like they think they can prove it. Do you think they can’t prove that he used drugs?

As for the grand jury, you know what they say about how easy it is to get an indictment? If they nullify at that stage it’s probably only because Weiss wants them to.

The grand jury told Durham to get bent, just because it's rare doesn't mean that it doesn't happen.

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