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The way we get a new Jedi/Force user who escaped the purge every year or two really sinks my assessment of the efficiency of Order 66.
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May 24, 2023 16:07
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Wookieepedia has 134 characters categorized as "Jedi Purge Survivors" across both the Legends and Disney canons - and that's just the characters who go on to do stuff that's important enough to put in a story. There's probably a bunch more that disappeared completely and never did anything worth mentioning. Though I guess it makes a certain amount of sense for Palpatine to be fine with a few Jedi hanging around here and there. The systemic power of the Jedi had been destroyed and the Sith ruled the galaxy - having a few Jedi survivors running scared across the galaxy just gave him some noses to rub his victory into.
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May 24, 2023 17:30
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Why would you clone humans in a galaxy of big rear end strong alien motherfuckers. Make an army of wookiee clones or something. step outside the box sheev
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May 26, 2023 09:09
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Wookiees have a Thing about being naked, so it'd be harder to armor them up. Humans might even be towards the upper end in strength and durability and versatility to environments compared to a number of relatively more fragile other species. In the old EU, there was a whole thing of the Emperor being a human supremacist as part of the whole thing about being a fascist, so it makes sense to set up the mass production of humans and gearing manufacturing to service them to help initiate his Imperial order, just like how he set up a bunch of the big nonhuman powers of the galaxy to take the fall as separatists. There was also a thing of Palpatine's former master having done some of the initial planning for the clone army, and he wanted to make them an army of naturally force-resistant lizardmen, but something about their brains didn't work right for the failsafe mind control chips.
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May 26, 2023 15:33
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The phrase force resistant lizardmen reminds me of Grand Admiral Blueguy and his force resistant lizards. Good lord why did people think that poo poo was good star warsing. The Thrawn series was about the most disappointed I've ever been in hyped books
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May 26, 2023 15:58
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The EU came up with the explanation that Jango became the source for the clones because he won a bounty hunting competition. One of Dooku's old apprentices had turned to the dark side and started a cult, so he decided that whoever could take her out would make a good template for the clone army. It ended up coming down to Jango and another Mandalorian, but if either of them had failed maybe the galaxy would have a few million Cad Banes running around or something.
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May 26, 2023 17:34
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If Montross had won the competition and killed Jango then the whole galaxy would have been filled with clones of Clancy Brown.
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May 26, 2023 17:46
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RubricMarine posted:Plus, with Separatist remnants showing up semi-regularly in new canon pre-OT post-PT stuff, it technically did go on for decades, it's just that it continued as an insurgency and then got folded into the rebels. there's something amusing about the Separatists whose raison d'être was leaving the Republic becoming part of the Alliance to Restore the Republic. presumably in the post RoTJ era there would be splits with not every group actually joining the New Republic?
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May 27, 2023 08:18
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I think the New Republic was actually pretty small by the end of the sequels. You've got maybe half of the old Republic that rejoined the new one, and then half of that is split between two parties called the Centrists and Populists. The Centrists secede from the Republic to join the First Order, so by the time Hosnian Prime blows up, the Republic is maybe 25% the size it was before the Empire.
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May 27, 2023 17:29
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Cerv posted:there's something amusing about the Separatists whose raison d'être was leaving the Republic becoming part of the Alliance to Restore the Republic. the idea seems to be that the core of the separatist cause (i.e. the public goals they portrayed themselves as fighting for) is decent treatment of the outer rim, and since the empire is even more exploitative toward the rim than the republic was, the groups that were actually on board with the separatists for ideological reasons view the rebellion as another shot at their goal. in legends this seems to work out more or less fine. in nu-canon the core, which was still pining for the good old imperial days, dominated the new republic for a couple of decades and then defected to the first order, leaving the new republic as basically just the old republic's holdings in the galactic south (i.e. not really anything at all lol, everything important is in the galactic north including coruscant and corellia). i think 25% might even be an optimistic estimate. this doesn't really track with how the sequel trilogy seems to imply that the first order were underdogs until they blew up hosnian prime though.
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May 27, 2023 17:56
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Robot Style posted:The EU came up with the explanation that Jango became the source for the clones because he won a bounty hunting competition. One of Dooku's old apprentices had turned to the dark side and started a cult, so he decided that whoever could take her out would make a good template for the clone army. As far as humans go the Mandalorians were probably considered a good template for an army with their established military traditions and methods. SlothfulCobra posted:Wookiees have a Thing about being naked, so it'd be harder to armor them up. Humans might even be towards the upper end in strength and durability and versatility to environments compared to a number of relatively more fragile other species. Humans being on the tougher side in the Star Wars universe is interesting but would make a bit of sense; Anakin is considered very unusual to be a human podracer because non Force using humans don't have the reflexes to be any good at it. Also remember the clone army are meant to be -soldiers- who use guns and operate vehicles, brute strength alone isn't necessarily ideal when you want flexibility, endurance and coordination. Humans are also well known and presumably have a large body of medical knowledge around them.
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May 28, 2023 09:37
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Jazerus posted:the idea seems to be that the core of the separatist cause (i.e. the public goals they portrayed themselves as fighting for) is decent treatment of the outer rim, and since the empire is even more exploitative toward the rim than the republic was, the groups that were actually on board with the separatists for ideological reasons view the rebellion as another shot at their goal. Wait, as of the beginning of The Force Awakens, Coruscant and Corellia and the other major core worlds are all already aligned with the First Order?? 
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May 28, 2023 21:04
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Corellia's apparently under First Order control in the sequels (which makes sense - the planet probably made a lot of money building Star Destroyers for the Empire), but Coruscant's been MIA. JJ Abrams initially wanted to blow it up in Episode 7, but the story group said no so he changed the name to Hosnian Prime. Then both Abrams and Trevorrow were going to feature it in earlier versions of Episode 9 - In Trevorrow's script it was going to have been turned into a galactic slum ruled by the First Order, and in Abrams' version the surface had been completely abandoned, save for the Sith cultists lurking beneath the old Jedi Temple with Palpatine. As a result, Coruscant's been pretty much absent from Sequel-era media, since they didn't want to contradict what the movies were going to do or spoil the reveal.
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May 29, 2023 00:59
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:Wait, as of the beginning of The Force Awakens, Coruscant and Corellia and the other major core worlds are all already aligned with the First Order?? yes. a large chunk of the core and galactic northeast organized into an imperial remnant faction in the immediate aftermath of RotJ, they were the "empire" that surrendered to the new republic, basically analogous to isard's faction in the legends timeline. unlike in legends, though, they ended up joining the new republic voluntarily as a coherent political bloc instead of being beaten into submission one by one by wedge, and were able to leverage that into steering the new republic in a more imperial direction. hell the new republic even allowed mas amedda (the fat blue guy that's always hanging out near sheevy p in the prequels) to be president of coruscant or w/e. this faction, the "centrists" (lol), defected to the first order five years before The Force Awakens happened. it's not clear what the gently caress is going on w/ corellia except that the first order apparently thinks they're unreliable enough to put under martial law anyway this is not necessarily an unrealistic way for a revolution to go but it definitely takes the shine off the rebels in retrospect lol
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May 29, 2023 16:16
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Why does poe seem so surprised that they even have a star destroyer when he's brought on board at the start of 7 if they're already that huge?
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May 29, 2023 23:36
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There's no actual worldbuilding about any of this in the movies, which is weird because Star Wars is the only movie series that has built into its format a way to dump some exposition up top for anybody who cares. The sequels just chose not to really use that. I don't think there's any mention of the New Republic during the main runtime of the films. And going from movie to movie, the sequel trilogy seems to go directly contrary to the direction that each movie before implied with its plot. There is no connection between what happens onscreen and what is apparently happening in the galaxy as a whole. I was under the impression that the reason that the contrived reason why Leia is back to running a ragtag bunch of losers was because the First Order is still mostly unknown and in hiding and not taken seriously as a threat by the New Republic, so she doesn't have any real funding. But I think most of that came from John Hodgman on a podcast building a stronger premise than the actual movie itself. For the most part, there isn't really any connecting story to the sequel trilogy, not even much added post-facto in the new EU, just a lot of people assuming that somebody else is building the world and telling a story and nobody ever actually does.
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May 30, 2023 01:36
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why does the First Order even need Starkiller Base then
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May 30, 2023 21:42
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yeah keep in mind this is all bullshit from the new books or comics or action figures or w/e. the films themselves are obviously trying to communicate a very different political situation and the story group i guess didn't understand the films at all when approving the tie-in media
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May 30, 2023 22:01
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:why does the First Order even need Starkiller Base then Why did the Empire need the Death Star? I think Sheev just has a thing for planet-killers. banned from Starbucks posted:Why does poe seem so surprised that they even have a star destroyer when he's brought on board at the start of 7 if they're already that huge? I think that an entirely new class of SD might take a lot longer than 5 years to design and build (I may be wrong, Star Wars loves to fudge numbers like that). Also the First Order apparently weren't allowed to build any, so building an entire shipyard and warships in secret is probably a suprise.
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May 31, 2023 08:20
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I want to know two things. Why is the resistance only like six people and also why is there a calvary charge on a star destroyer?
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Jun 2, 2023 13:56
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Tall Tale Teller posted:I want to know two things. Why is the resistance only like six people and also why is there a calvary charge on a star destroyer? The clone wars were so big that the subsequent cloneless wars were terribly understaffed.
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Jun 2, 2023 13:57
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banned from Starbucks posted:Why would you clone humans in a galaxy of big rear end strong alien motherfuckers. Make an army of wookiee clones or something. step outside the box sheev yes... yes... a million nien nunbs.
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Jun 2, 2023 16:55
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Quotey posted:yes... yes... a million nien nunbs. Based on Jedi: Survivor, it should have been endless clones of Turgle and Skoova. Or Jar-Jar.
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Jun 3, 2023 11:48
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Robot Style posted:Wookieepedia has 134 characters categorized as "Jedi Purge Survivors" across both the Legends and Disney canons - and that's just the characters who go on to do stuff that's important enough to put in a story. There's probably a bunch more that disappeared completely and never did anything worth mentioning. It would actually make political sense for the the Emperor to put a Jedi "traitor" on display few years to make an example out of them.
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Jun 27, 2023 13:37
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I really loved the show. Highly recommend if you haven't seen it.
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Jul 8, 2023 02:53
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redshirt posted:I really loved the show. Highly recommend if you haven't seen it. V. ugly show. No thanks! e: and it easily could have been bigger. Quotey fucked around with this message at 07:19 on Jul 11, 2023 |
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Jul 11, 2023 07:11
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Icedude posted:Why did the Empire need the Death Star? The Death Star (or something like it) would be the natural outgrowth of planetary defense shields. If something like Echo Base can put up a shield "capable of deflecting any bombardment" --including in this case from Executor and its attendant SDs--and shields covering an entire planet are practical--which we saw around Scarif--then it is really no wonder the Clone Wars devolved into years-long sieges.
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Jul 11, 2023 18:59
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i don't think big defense shields and Sheev just loving ludicrous weapons are mutually incompatible. look at it from his perspective- standing in front of a space window and watching your enormous laser blast something while you smirk very evilly are as integral to the dark side as lightning and spooky masks for all his flaws, the dude was nothing if not committed to being dark side
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Jul 11, 2023 21:34
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I'm not sure it's clear whether Hoth's shields were supposed to cover the entire planet, although that's probably the implication that the EU leaned towards over time. Seems kind of excessive when you've just got the one base.
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Jul 12, 2023 04:22
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SlothfulCobra posted:I'm not sure it's clear whether Hoth's shields were supposed to cover the entire planet, although that's probably the implication that the EU leaned towards over time. Seems kind of excessive when you've just got the one base. I don't think there's any implication that Echo Base's shield was anything other than a dome over the base--which is why the Imperials were able to affect a landing.
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Jul 12, 2023 06:00
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"COMMSCAN has detected an energy field protecting an area of the sixth planet of the Hoth System. The field is strong enough to deflect any bombardment." "Captain Piett, make ready to land our troops beyond their energy field and deploy the fleet so that nothing gets off the system." It's a localized deflector shield but they picked up its signal because it is ludicrously powerful if it can deflect orbital bombardment.
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Jul 12, 2023 14:20
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Pretty sure it's also set up specifically for the purpose of holding off bombardment long enough to evacuate the base.
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Jul 13, 2023 08:30
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:The Thrawn series was about the most disappointed I've ever been in hyped books I just picked up the first one for some light summer reading after seeing them hyped all over SA. Then I read the introduction and went flaccid the moment I realized that OT characters were central to the plot. The "Luke, Han, Leia and all your other favorites ARE BACK!" angle made it feel dated to me before I even read the first page. I thought I was getting a completely new story and characters.
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Jul 13, 2023 16:33
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CaptainCourteous posted:I just picked up the first one for some light summer reading after seeing them hyped all over SA. yeah that's pretty much how I felt. along with Thrawn himself being so cornball even for Star Wars. he's stroking his chin at paintings to demonstrate his military genius, he's imperial but actually not that evil, a big ol' just following orders head, he's the first person in ever to discover the magic force-blocking lizard, hell in the universe of cantina aliens he's... a dude... but uh, blue? oh and sick red eyes !! and then add in that it's the continuing adventures of our exact same heroes, ouch. George was right when he responded to what happened to the gang with "they died," and god bless the author who nuked Chewie with a moon i suppose to be fair it came out i think before i did, when the whole idea of an expanded universe was new. so i'm coming from a different angle than people with nostalgia for those books.
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Jul 13, 2023 23:44
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CaptainCourteous posted:I just picked up the first one for some light summer reading after seeing them hyped all over SA. Edgar Allen Ho posted:and then add in that it's the continuing adventures of our exact same heroes, ouch. Yeah those books were pretty much the beginning of the Star Wars EU, when everyone was hungering for more Luke, Han, and Leia etc. and it had been about a decade since anything significant story wise had come out since the original trilogy. They were way more about someone finally bringing the franchise back than retreading old territory and beating a dead horse, but I guess without any perspective of the time it might feel that way. It wasn't "oh it's the same old cast again" it was "holy poo poo there's actually more Star Wars stuff to consume!" I remember my cousin lending me those books and my mind being completely blown that they even existed, as any chance to spend more time in such a captivating universe was more than welcome. If the first foray into the EU was a whole new cast, it probably would have fallen flat and no one would have given a poo poo. It wasn't "old hat" at that point, people absolutely wanted more of what they had been missing, that was sort of the point. Twenty Four fucked around with this message at 12:22 on Jul 14, 2023 |
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Jul 14, 2023 12:20
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Twenty Four posted:I remember my cousin lending me those books and my mind being completely blown that they even existed, as any chance to spend more time in such a captivating universe was more than welcome. I should have read them as an edgy teenager who was too cool for Attack of the Clones, but I never knew much about the EU and for some reason I only ever read the Han Solo trilogy.
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Jul 15, 2023 00:57
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In this thread we're hungering for bigger clone wars. Or bigger clones? Worth researching (Django Fett's dad???).
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Jul 16, 2023 04:47
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Thrawn was the only guy to go "we should make shields standard on our ties" which puts him light years ahead of every other imperial
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Jul 16, 2023 18:44
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Quotey posted:In this thread we're hungering for bigger clone wars. Or bigger clones? Worth researching (Django Fett's dad???). hmmm, good point. could the clones themselves have been bigger? maybe the kaminoans charge by the centimeter.
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Jul 16, 2023 20:07
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Lawman 0 posted:Thrawn was the only guy to go "we should make shields standard on our ties" which puts him light years ahead of every other imperial Counterpoint: Luke's shields were the only ones that ever saved a starfighter that had been hit.
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Jul 17, 2023 07:28
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