Handsome Ralph posted:

https://twitter.com/Faytuks/status/1711913141934645757?s=20

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/biden-urges-israeli-leader-minimize-civilian-casualties-war-hamas-rcna119826

Cugel the Clever posted:

Things may be heating up with Hezbollah. Both sides seem like they've tried to hold back in the last few days, with violent incidents being sporadic, but neither side is willing to fully ignore what they perceive as the other's aggression, so retaliation is ramping up. Hopefully won't boil over...

Fivemarks posted:

Huh. Looks like a bunch of early reports of Hamas atrocities were either fake, or blown out of proportion to justify a hardline "We have to kill all the vermin" stance. So, uh....

Fivemarks posted:

have you got a legitimate confirmed source that the palestineans are beheading babies? Because that's fake
https://english.almayadeen.net/news/politics/factcheck:-israel-has-no-information-on-hamas-murdering-babi


The claims that a pregnant woman was dissecting alive by Hamas soldiers with Bayonets? Well that happened. IN the 80's. Just it was done to Lbeanese refugees by Christian militiamen with support from the Israelis https://www.arabnews.com/node/2162166/amp

Fivemarks posted:

Imperialist and settler colonialist forces love inventing or massively blowing out of proportion atrocities by the people they're imperializing, both to get public support on their side for solving the "native problem" and to justify their own crimes as retribution. Which isn't to say plenty of times, those attacks don't happen- but often they're just another chain in a link of violence started by settler colonialism.

It's a bit like saying that Custer's Last Stand was an evil massacre of a brave american force by evil natives, and not asking "Hey why were those Americans there?"

Fivemarks posted:

I mean, yeah, Israelis are basically a Settler Colonialist state. Same for White Americans and Canadians and Mexicans and most of the Americas. Same for Australia and New Zealand.

Edit: This is not me saying that genocide or "Push them into the sea is good", mind you.

Diarrhea Elemental posted:

Fivemarks posted:

I am already going to regret making this post but gently caress it.

Let's say its the 1870's. Where does the line between "Settler Colonialism'd Land" and "Our Land" lay in America?

Edit: I may have said that Israel is a Settler Colonial state, but that doesn't mean the solution to the problem is "Kill'em all and drive them into the sea". I sure as hell didn't say that. I just said it's a Settler Colony, same as America or canada or Mexico or Australia or New Zealand. I certainly don't think any of those states should have their non native populations killed and murdered.

Diarrhea Elemental posted:

The bolded part makes this ironic, especially considering you got his edit in your quote too.

quote:

It's a bit like saying that Custer's Last Stand was an evil massacre of a brave american force by evil natives, and not asking "Hey why were those Americans there?"

Diarrhea Elemental posted:

We're talking about people who within living memory had their poo poo taken away by force and had their own country turned into an apartheid state against them, with every ugly indignity and outrage possible visited on them constantly. Who exactly is shocked when some of those people absolutely lose their poo poo and, not being morally justified but in a completely unsurprising turn, take out all of that in any direction possible and in the most unspeakable of ways? And if we see a follow-up post:

Conveniently, the state in question has non-native populations concentrated in two geographical areas that are currently subject to gross violation of basic human rights and continued invasion by Israeli settlers colonizing Palestinian settlements. One side is historically native with long ties to the region, one side was disenfranchised in living memory and currently lives under the thumb of the other side currently.

bulletsponge13 posted:

The beheading thing sounds much like the fictional war crimes propagandized in every war. I'm not saying it didn't happen, but that it fails the smell test. I have no doubt that militants killed civilians there- possibly in horrific ways that will caste new nightmares into the historical record- beheading babies takes a level of inhumanity few seem to have. The fact that the IDF is denying it, and the only source seems to be the same fake looking newscast, I don't think it happened that way.


Mosst people have no idea what happens to a human body confronted with ballistic science. 5.56 can remove limbs on an adult; shrapnel will fillet you like a trout. This very well could have been like the crimes of Haditha, where the assaulting force just fragged every room, and then swept through.

Bullets do horrible things to tiny bodies.

quote:

And here's another line from the Israeli military update - spokesman Jonathan Conricus says that Hamas militants did behead babies during their deadly wave of attacks at the weekend.

Conricus says a coroner who visited the aftermath of the massacre at Kibbutz Be'eri had seen the children's bodies and confirmed how they died.

"I admit it took us some time to really understand and to verify that report, and it was hard to believe that even Hamas could perform such a barbaric act," he says.

"I think we can now say, with relative confidence, that this is what Hamas did... there were bodies scattered everywhere, mutilated."

That Works posted:

It doesn't change the fact that babies were killed, but there's a bit of a difference between "babies were killed after enemy soldiers fragged multiple rooms" vs "enemy soldiers purposefully cut heads off of children" and that BBC link doesn't really make it any clearer.

bulletsponge13 posted:

E- I'm not supporting either side, but it's hard not to find some sympathy for the people of Gaza; I feel the same way about Hamas as I did about the insurgents in Iraq: what else would we expect? Reminded me of that verse from the Tyler Childers song "Long Violent History".

Laughing Zealot posted:

Does Hamas even possess rockets/weapons capable of leveling buildings like a hospital?

FrozenVent posted:

How are they getting SRBM into Gaza? I thought Israël had the place tightly locked down.

I’m not doubting it, just curious about the mechanics of it from a professional viewpoint.

Herstory Begins Now posted:

i am perplexed where the idea that a jdam or a single specific type of palestinian rocket are the only two possibilities even came from

mlmp08 posted:

It’s true that Israel has committed war crimes and engaged in illegal collective punishment of civilians, proudly, even without mention of the hospital. So if somehow we could know 100000% that Israel was not responsible for the hospital, you still end up with dozens of other Israeli attacks on medical facilities and healthcare workers, civilians, and cutting off good water and electricity to civilians and humanitarian medical and aid supply systems.

mlmp08 posted:

Well, this simply is not true, jfc,

I hven’t seen an this heavy handed in a long time. Saying “gee, it is shocking how everyone else (not me) is stuck in their own narrative bubble (but not me)”

mlmp08 posted:

Dude, you have a LOT of work to do to make a coherent argument that Arab leaders did not care about Israel’s actions over the last two weeks, until the hospital.

Personally, rather than doing that work, I recommend you just admit you wrote something very ignorant and untrue.

It is not going to be hard for poster after poster to dogpile you with evidence that leaders of Arab-led countries (and other countries) did not approve of Israel’s collective punishments and striking civilians over the last couple weeks.

mlmp08 posted:

quote:

The ultimate assessment that the strike was not the result of an Israeli weapon was based on two primary factors, the officials said. First, the damage from the strike was consistent with a rocket, and not an Israeli munition, such as a bomb dropped from the air or an artillery round, which would have caused significant structural damage to the hospital building and left a large crater. Videos and images show “only light structural damage,” one of the officials said.

Second, analysts were able to track the trajectory based on videos shot from four locations. Two cameras captured the flight of the projectile, which analysts judge to have been launched within the Gaza Strip, the official said. The rocket then traveled northeast, and about 10 seconds after launch, the motor became unstable, the official said. The rocket’s plume fluctuated in intensity, and a few seconds later, analysts observed a large flash. That, the official said, was the motor failing.

As a result of the failure, the rocket changed direction, the official said. The rocket came apart and the motor struck the ground, followed by the warhead, which landed at the hospital and caused a large explosion, the official said.

In the days since the strike, analysts have scoured open sources looking for any debris at the site that might tie the projectile to Israel, but they have found none, the official said. No Palestinians have come forward with such evidence as they would be expected to do if they had proof that Israel was to blame, the official added.

Crab Dad posted:

Give ‘em Cyprus and call it a day.

BUUNNI posted:

This means the US will keep sending as many bombs, munitions, and fuel as the Zionists need. He does go on to say that they will have “conversations” but it’s clear the US is backing a genocide.

That Works posted:

What does that mean to you?

Because so far they have been getting cover in the UN from the US and I'm not getting the impression the IDF is operating with great restraint here because of outside influence myself.

orange juche posted:

But something something rapture Armageddon.

Seriously, the US' Israel policy is significantly driven by evangelical wing nuts who believe that the nation of Israel is essential for Jesus to come back and rapture all the right people and leave the sinners on a ruined earth

PurpleXVI posted:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1829092/Erdogan-Turkey-Israel-war-Gaza

On the one hand, I'm happy that someone is actually standing up for the Palestinians and he's saying a lot of true things. On the other hand, Turkey has so many other war crimes to their name that I was neither expecting them nor given any particular feeling that they'd lessen the war crimes going on.

On the third mutant hand growing out of my abdomen, there's no way he's serious, right? I mean he's an unstable weirdo, but there's not a chance in hell and this just has to be blowhard bullshit for domestic consumption... right?

Kith posted:

coordinated efforts to gently caress with children have been a thing for a while

it can be about seeding propaganda, or it can be about just wanting to hurt kids, or a secret third thing that only the freaks who do it understand

quote:

WASHINGTON—U.S. intelligence agencies all but stopped spying on Hamas and other violent Palestinian groups in the years after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks on the U.S., instead directing resources to the hunt for the leaders of al Qaeda and, later, Islamic State, according to U.S. officials familiar with the shift.

Calculating that Hamas had never directly threatened the U.S. and burdened with other spying priorities, Washington ceded the responsibility to Israel, confident that its aggressive security services would detect any threat, the U.S. officials said. It should have been “a well-placed bet,” said one senior counterterrorism official.

With more than 30 Americans dead and 10 missing, mounting fears of a regional war, and billions of dollars in U.S. military hardware headed to the Middle East since Hamas’s Oct. 7 attacks on Israel, some officials say the U.S. misjudged the threat to U.S. national security.

“In terms of intelligence failures, which really do lie mostly on Israel, I think we should also share some blame for missing this event,” said Marc Polymeropoulos, a retired CIA operations officer with extensive counterterrorism experience. “Ceding the target to the Israelis now looks to have had consequences.”

...

“I don’t recall at the time anybody saying you were focusing too much on al Qaeda,” a former senior CIA official said.

Emile Nakhleh, who led the CIA’s Political Islam analysis unit, said Israel and the U.S. have misread Hamas before, including when it shocked the West by winning elections in 2006 after Israel left Gaza. U.S. intelligence assessed at the time that important factions within the group favored engagement with Israel, but the prospect was never explored, said Nakhleh, now director of National Security Programs at the University of New Mexico.