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ShoogaSlim posted:it's cool that apple figured out a way to not need a controller or remote, but how will they solve for accessibility? my friend's little sister has syndactyly (webbed fingers) and can't always manipulate her iphone screen without accessibility features turned on. usually apple is pretty good about this stuff so i'm sure they'll find out a way to do it and subsequently pull heart strings in whatever wwdc video they produce showing how disabled people can use computers better now with an AVP (even though it costs 3x+ as much as a cheap laptop). In Accessibility, you can change the clicks from being activated by a finger pinch to a mouth sound, like clicking your tongue or making some other monosyllabic noise.
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Feb 13, 2024 00:33
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i know the tethered battery is a negative for the general audience but imo i wouldn’t ever care, it keeps weight and heat off the head.
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Feb 13, 2024 00:44
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blunt posted:The thing that Vision Pro has going for it over Quest 3 is graphics/screen fidelity, but "graphics not being good enough" isn't the reason people give up on VR headsets when the novelty wears off. It's weight, mental fatigue and isolation, which are problems the AVP doesn't solve. I actually disagree with this, overall the hardware is really good, but the software is just not good enough. A few things appeal to a few niches, but by and large most things in VR is just not compelling enough vs a regular flatscreen experience, that even if the hardware was magic and virtually unnoticeable, if it's not worth moving your head and arms around for people would just use the flatscreen stuff. It's not a problem that's going to get solved with new hardware, it needs to be in people understanding the medium and making things that are an actual match for its strengths vs trying to replicate flatscreen experiences on them, which is most of what people seem to be trying now
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Feb 13, 2024 00:49
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gregday posted:In Accessibility, you can change the clicks from being activated by a finger pinch to a mouth sound, like clicking your tongue or making some other monosyllabic noise. genuinely happy to know this. i'll happily take jabs at apple at a moment's notice, but they do seem to have a pretty thoughtful approach to accessibility which is nice to see. Lemming posted:I actually disagree with this, overall the hardware is really good, but the software is just not good enough. A few things appeal to a few niches, but by and large most things in VR is just not compelling enough vs a regular flatscreen experience, that even if the hardware was magic and virtually unnoticeable, if it's not worth moving your head and arms around for people would just use the flatscreen stuff. for me it's a software and hardware issue. right now the hardware is constrained to a bulky, heavy headset with an external power supply, but those things will improve. the software does need to present a more compelling use case with more thoughtful approaches to how it disrupts my existing tech. i do like the idea of what apple is trying to sell, btw. right now, i have a google nest screen near my kitchen sink/food prep area, one on my bedside stand, a desk monitor for my wfh setup, and a tv. plus i look at my phone all the time anyway regardless of which other screen i'm already looking at or when i'm on the toilet or whatever. if one headset could replace all of those (forget about having anyone over or living with anyone else) and be moveable/dynamic/etc, then that's a compelling use case. i mean people are basically carrying a floating screen in their hand that distracts them from what they're actually looking at all the time anyway, might as well bring that screen in front of their eyeballs and show the "real" world behind it as well. i'm not smart enough to know what to do with any of that stuff other than "hey screens wherever you want!" except maybe interactive experiences like getting to "visit" the eiffel tower or "go" to mars or whatever. i've always wished that, in my lifetime, space tourism would be accessible enough to potentially see the earth from space. turns out it'll probably be at least decently realistic enough through some VR headset type experience in lieu of the real thing in the next ~30 years so i can experience it as an old man.
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Feb 13, 2024 01:11
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ShoogaSlim posted:for me it's a software and hardware issue. right now the hardware is constrained to a bulky, heavy headset with an external power supply, but those things will improve. the software does need to present a more compelling use case with more thoughtful approaches to how it disrupts my existing tech. I definitely see it as a dev kit for what could come in the future, and I imagine there's a lot of iteration to be done around the whole UI problems, but so much of it is counter productive. Like right now just to make sure I'm not forgetting any aspect I'm writing this post up in a Vision Pro, and already there have been several really frustrating things that feel like they weren't thoughtfully approached at all. You have to use a keyboard to type, the eye tracking input is just not sufficient for text, but also you need some kind of mouse (I got their stupid touchpad since they wouldn't let it work with mice, lol), becuase the eye tracking is not sufficient for clicking, either (at the top I couldn't click on User Control Panel reliably, I have to actually look slightly underneath it in order to get it to click on the right spot, this is with my relatively weak prescription lenses and going through calibration multiple times). Then you select the text entry field, and the text input box shows up, even though I have a keyboard connected and just used it to type in the URL, so now I have to look past it to see my keyboard. Resist the urge to close that floating text input box, because if you do the screen loses the context that it was the main entry field. And so on. All these frustrations (and there are more - if I'm using the mouse and I look at a separate screen, the mouse jumps there, even if I hadn't tried to move it over, so it's actually dangerous to look around because you'll lose context. If you want to pin a window somehwere, you can't reangle it in any way, so to put it on a wall or something you have to stand in the right spot to put it flat, otherwise you can only place it in a shell around you. You can't reposition windows by grabbing them, you only have the pinch gesture, but if the window is close enough you feel induced to still reach for that little tab because it's close, but there's some unknown behavior that will de-select the tab even if you're looking directly at it if your fingers get to close, sometimes, but not all the time. I could go on) just make me think ok, well, maybe the problem is I'm just using it standalone. Well - I'm trying to use it standalone because it's pretty powerful hardware - this experience should be good. But if I was just using a connected macbook or something, I could do all my normal computer stuff there. But if I'm just trying to do my normal computer stuff - why am I bothering with this thing on my head? I'm not worried because I think it's impossible to iterate from here to there, I'm worried because it feels like a lot of these issues stem from a fundamental disconnect between what I think this kind of thing is good for and what they're hoping it'll be good for, and if they just focus on what they think will be good, they're not going to pay attention to what the medium is *actually* good for. Like, why aren't they leaning into the AR-ness? Why can't I grab some windows and keep them on my desk? I want to run my music, but I don't want it front and center all the time or select it or whatever, but I do want it at hand. If I could grab it off my desk and mess with it then put it back, that'd be cool. The pinch gesture works great sometimes - when I don't want to move my hand all the way to where my mouse is, being able to just pinch sometimes and avoid that back and forth would be useful, but using it as a primary input all the time just isn't good and doesn't feel good. The virtual environments they chose are super weird - if I'm at my desk, it feels loving strange to be in the middle of an empty field. I feel like a bear is going to come out of the woods. I want to work in a space that makes me feel safe, and they all just make me exposed. It feels like there's no real cohesive vision beyond "we think AR glasses will be a huge thing in the future, so let's try to make something now to capture that market early." I didn't expect to like it, so I'm sure there's bias there, but I also haven't really been that pleasantly surprised about any of it, either.
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Feb 13, 2024 01:40
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Does every Apple Store have a avp demo kiosk? Do they put them into a special store kiosk mode or a store employee has to manually activate guests mode for ppl?
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Feb 13, 2024 01:46
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Shaocaholica posted:Does every Apple Store have a avp demo kiosk? Do they put them into a special store kiosk mode or a store employee has to manually activate guests mode for ppl? Every demo experience is by appointment and is guided along by a store employee with a script. The entire demo is very much on rails. You are the one driving it, but they tell you exactly where to go and what to click and do. It takes about 30 minutes, and you don't really get to explore on your own. My wife did a demo and accidentally activated the keyboard, which is not part of the tour, and they gave her a couple of tips on how to type, and then had her close it. It starts when you show up for your appointment and check in, they get you to scan your face for a light seal size measurement, and then they come out from the back with a freshly sanitized unit for you to use, with the correct size light seal for your head. It's hooked up to an iPad so the employee can see what you're seeing and guide you. There are units on display in the store, but they aren't for you to wear and use, just sort of to look at and handle. Anybody wearing one in store is going through the scripted demo. gregday fucked around with this message at 03:02 on Feb 13, 2024 |
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Feb 13, 2024 03:00
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Feb 13, 2024 04:30
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gregday posted:Anyone dismissing the Vision Pro really needs to go to a store and try the demo. Whether or not you like it is up to you, but this is not just a more expensive version of the Quest. It is something entirely different. I’ll definitely be giving this a test when it makes its way to Canada evantually, but my clumsy effort to articulate why I’m not optimistic on /my/ immediate uptake of AVP is roughly that: The way I consume my gadgets feels very muscle memory. I pick up my phone or iPad to browse the web. I flip on my TV while lying on the couch. Flip open the Macbook to do some email or coding or something. I roll over in bed and paw at the nightstand iPad to put on some cooking youtube until I fall asleep. I’m trying to be fair to AVP and figure out where it fits in my daily life. I think things like 3D photos or VR interactive stuff is fun and good but I don’t do that every day. So I guess the question I need to answer is whether the day to day experience is compelling enough to really make the AVP a daily driver versus just a $3500 gadget I feel is a “chore” because it has limited battery life and I have to put it on and take it off because I think my other gadgets are a more natural or preferred way to consume content of preform an activity. I don’t think this is a knock against AVP, but when I compare it to something like Quest I am thinking of the whole consumption model, not just what I can do when I’m in there. Fair or unfair, it’s a pair of goggles I have to put on which, maybe easier than Quest, is definitely more effort than picking up an iPad. I’m trying very hard to reserve judgment because maybe AVP is amazingly light or unobtrusive but in my heart I don’t think that this will be a device for me until ANY hardware manufacturer manages to evolve the hardware down to maybe a big thick pair of glasses I can slide on or off. Take this for the clumsily articulated mess of thoughts it is. I’m trying to keep an open mind so I’m more than happy to be pleasantly surprised and eat my words in a few months/years when I get to try one, but — and I hate that this makes me sound like a luddite — my prior experiences with “something i strap to my face” have just made me skeptical that this is a device that I would adopt for daily use. And that’s fine. Maybe AVP isn’t for me. I really hope it succeeds so I don’t want to poo poo on anyone who thinks this is the greatest thing, and I appreciate everyone who urges people like me to keep an open mind, but I kind of wanted to paint a little context on why I think I have the prejudices I come in with.
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Feb 13, 2024 14:35
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some kinda jackal posted:I’m trying very hard to reserve judgment because maybe AVP is amazingly light or unobtrusive but in my heart I don’t think that this will be a device for me until ANY hardware manufacturer manages to evolve the hardware down to maybe a big thick pair of glasses I can slide on or off. The thing is that this was a thing at one point; Microsoft, and Google had prototypes of glasses that do exactly this, what happened with those though? They just kinda disappeared and were canceled. I was really bummed out that they didn't go anywhere because they seemed to have a lot of promise.
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Feb 13, 2024 18:38
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Lemming posted:The virtual environments they chose are super weird - if I'm at my desk, it feels loving strange to be in the middle of an empty field. I feel like a bear is going to come out of the woods. I want to work in a space that makes me feel safe, and they all just make me exposed. Dang that's kind of a hilarious but valid criticism, I would have thought that's something someone might pick up on when they were pitching locations. Maybe they just went for immediate wow factor? I always set my Quest home to the coziest option (quest 1's domes); if you want it to be an extension of your life, where that 'takes place' is actually super important.
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Feb 13, 2024 19:07
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I tried the Disney+ Theater environment while sitting in a leather chair roughly the same size and design as the D+ chairs, and that was a hell of an experience. I put my hands on the arm rests in the environment and it felt the way my eyes expected it to feel. But it was very weird to look down and not see my legs, but just see the leather chair seat instead.
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Feb 13, 2024 19:24
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Koramei posted:Dang that's kind of a hilarious but valid criticism, I would have thought that's something someone might pick up on when they were pitching locations. Maybe they just went for immediate wow factor? I always set my Quest home to the coziest option (quest 1's domes); if you want it to be an extension of your life, where that 'takes place' is actually super important. Yeah, it's a case where I think they wanted to have whatever aesthetic of those spaces when videos and stuff were shared about it, rather than focus on the experience the person has actually being there. Compare to this virtual environment from Virtual Desktop: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFCqyhtx3yo This space loving rules. It's so cool and feels so nice and pleasant to be in. It's the kind of place I would much rather prefer to be at than my IRL office
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Feb 13, 2024 19:36
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It can't be long now until we get full body tracking just from the cameras. Quest already does something like your whole torso and can procedurally add legs. Once personas catch up at least, but I think that'll happen quicker than people expect.
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Feb 13, 2024 19:36
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There are some cool chill virtual environments that Oculus has made. I kind of like the ones that are either very hard to get to or just not real like a space ship bridge. The Hawaii mountain top one in AVP is pretty cool. So is the Joshua Tree one but the best view they hide behind you. The rest are meh. The AppleTV+ theater is cool but its missing the rest of the seats. I know that was deliberate but I like the seats and the interactive lighting on them(apps on oculus do this).
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Feb 13, 2024 21:29
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Honestly I could spend a long while just on top of the skyscraper in the city view in the Sky Guide app. Plucking constellations out of the night sky and holding them in your hand is pure magic.
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Feb 13, 2024 21:32
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I said come in! posted:The thing is that this was a thing at one point; Microsoft, and Google had prototypes of glasses that do exactly this, what happened with those though? They just kinda disappeared and were canceled. I was really bummed out that they didn't go anywhere because they seemed to have a lot of promise. The only thing I can figure is that it’s just not currently possible to do what is intended in that form factor, so any smaller form glasses were effectively just toys with even less value than I perceive AVP to have. I honestly can believe the argument that AVP is almost there in terms of comfort and reducing isolation, but I think for me that last 20 or 30% where you literally just slip them on and off like glasses makes the difference. Definitely not saying it’s a MAJOR hurdle, but there’s something about the act of strapping something to my face vs slipping on a pair of glasses that I imagine would make it a seamless go-to for consumption same as picking up an ipad or iphone. Anyway, I don’t want anything I post here to feel like it’s discrediting the advances we see with AVP. I may just be being too bluntly honest about my personal tastes and where we are in the VR evolution.
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Feb 13, 2024 22:21
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Re: casual on-off wear, the BOBOVR style halo strap makes a huge difference for the Quest 3. It looks a lot bulkier and more complicated than the 'simple' straps, but you put it on and take it off with the same motions as a big hat without needing to otherwise adjust things.
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Feb 13, 2024 23:28
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Lemming posted:Yeah, it's a case where I think they wanted to have whatever aesthetic of those spaces when videos and stuff were shared about it, rather than focus on the experience the person has actually being there. Compare to this virtual environment from Virtual Desktop: VD's apartment is done so well, the lighting is perfect all it's missing is ambient audio that sounds the part but this is one of the most realistic virtual rooms I've been in
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Feb 14, 2024 06:23
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Yeah there is a major psychological difference between putting on AR glasses and donning the nerd helmet. I recently got the bobovr strap for the Q3 and it plus the Q3 improvements is the most comfortable vr I’ve ever experienced. Despite that I don’t want to chill with it on. Even with pass through I can’t chill with my wife on the couch with it on. I’m playing more VR games than I have in years though. Despite being way lower resolution my Nreal glasses work far better for chilling and acting as a big floating display. If they had higher resolution and AR processing they’d be great. It still feels weird how much effort and hardware of the avp is focused on being VR glasses when it doesn’t seem like Apple is terribly interested in VR experiences. If they are for interacting with floating computer windows they should really be glasses. If Nreal can get it mostly working in the glasses form factor for $300 presumably someone could perfect it for < $3000
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Feb 14, 2024 10:17
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If the Nreal displays could be kept pinned in space without jitter, I would never take them off. The “giant display pasted to your face” aspect killed them for me. In related news, the lack of a Virtual Desktop/Immersed application for the AVP has kept me from picking one up so far, despite being an overpaid VR enthusiast who travels across an ocean 4x a year. I feel like that is the target demographic for this thing to a T, Apple just needs to get the productivity tools squared away.
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Feb 14, 2024 16:56
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ShoogaSlim posted:im surprised that anyone knows a "bunch" of people who would buy them in the first place. not a critique or calling bs or anything, but i'm curious about demographics. do you know multiple IRL people who bought an AVP and are now returning them? Yeah these are tech/entertainment lawyers that were excited about the possibilities.
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Feb 15, 2024 06:56
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Just got my optical inserts. So I’m moderately near sighted and I wear glasses for driving/walking/sports but I don’t need anything for computer/phone. I don’t have contacts. The Vision Pro was a bit blurry but totally useable except the pass thru was too blurry to read phone or computer or keyboard. With the inserts everything is clear and as good as it can be. I can finally read my phone and computer inside the AVP.
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Feb 17, 2024 21:45
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Shaocaholica posted:Just got my optical inserts. So I’m moderately near sighted and I wear glasses for driving/walking/sports but I don’t need anything for computer/phone. I don’t have contacts. The Vision Pro was a bit blurry but totally useable except the pass thru was too blurry to read phone or computer or keyboard. With the inserts everything is clear and as good as it can be. I can finally read my phone and computer inside the AVP.
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Feb 18, 2024 00:01
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Rageaholic posted:How do the optical inserts work? They can't just work for every prescription out of the box, can they? Or do you need to provide your prescription info when you order them? you have to provide a legal prescription to apple
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Feb 18, 2024 00:26
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mediaphage posted:you have to provide a legal prescription to apple Also if you have prism on your prescription you're SOL. Did the demo this morning and I enjoyed it. Definitely on rails. Though they did let me try a keyboard as part of the demo. That wasn't as good. I can see why they might shy away from it. Wasn't as intuitive to "feel" where the keys were vs something like the Quest handsets. But on the other hand, using my eyes to direct typing and pinching to choose was pretty decent. The resolution of the 3D photos and videos left a little something to be desired. The 8k demo was good, still a little weirdly grainy. The regular photos shot in 3D were rougher. The kind of frosted edge makes then oddly intrusive and were the only part I felt my ol VR Motion Sickness kick in because the rest of the passthrough was "flat" vs the photo. Spatial audio was good. They had an Alicia Keyes bit where the audio tracked your head. That will be a cool bit if they ever shoot concerts with that in mind. 3D sports were a little constrained. Couldn't track a baseball as easily, a dude swinging his bat seemed like it was poorly aliased. Can definitely tell the foveated rendering takes half a second when you turn your head to look at something. Kind if helps me with motion sickness though. Don't have the disposable income, would buy if I did though.
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Feb 18, 2024 00:48
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FilthyImp posted:Which is basically a middleman for Zenni to construct your lenses and slot them into the magnetically attached inserts. In the App Store there’s an app called AmazeVR with a couple of music video “concerts”. I bought the one with T-Pain which is 4 songs in about 16 minutes and it’s INCREDIBLE. Even more impressive, personal, and in your face than the Alicia Keys video. It’s definitely on my own rotation of things to get people to try when they get a demo from me.
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Feb 18, 2024 02:20
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So even tho I have access to a Vision Pro I did the Apple Store demo today just to see how they do it (plus I’m supposed to give demos at work so I wanted to see how others did demos). Anyway the Apple demo is nice but it’s pretty bland. They only show photos, AppleTV and environments. No dinosaur encounter. And no 3rd party. IMO JigSpace is super cool and you’ll deffo not get that. I suppose the demos will get better over time.
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Feb 18, 2024 06:40
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They did have me launch Yummly for some reason I never understood. I think it was to practice scrolling? But I sucked at it at first and they just had me quit it. My wife accidentally opened the keyboard so they had her try typing a bit. I heard some folks did get the Encounter Dinosaurs demo in store but we didn’t.
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Feb 18, 2024 06:44
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gregday posted:They did have me launch Yummly for some reason I never understood. I think it was to practice scrolling? But I sucked at it at first and they just had me quit it. You can just ask for the dinosaur and they often will do it, from the folks I know who have gone in. Has anyone here used the AVP with AirPods Max? The pros hurt my ears after an hour or 2 of use, and I'd want to benefit from the better noise cancellation of the Max anyway.
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Feb 18, 2024 19:25
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The Vision Pro demo should just let you come in, put the headset on and mess with it however you want. But also, Apple probably doesn't want a customer to come in, put the headset on, and get instantly blasted with virtual reality porn.
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Feb 19, 2024 23:38
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can you even use one of the many macbooks or imacs in an apple store to visit a porn website? i imagine they can put restrictions on safari so you can't just go to any url
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Feb 20, 2024 00:33
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ShoogaSlim posted:can you even use one of the many macbooks or imacs in an apple store to visit a porn website? i imagine they can put restrictions on safari so you can't just go to any url Doubt it. They probably setup IP filtering decades ago in Apple store/demo OS. Be the change tho. Also the vision pro demo they have a guide person there who can see what you see via air play so you can't hide anything but maybe they don't stop you or just gently push them out of the way or block their hand if they reach over to stop the demo. "I'm good dawg"
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Feb 20, 2024 06:47
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Feb 21, 2024 19:34
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I'm trying to find something that will let me fit a Magic Keyboard and Magic Touchpad in something to let it be more or less the same ergonomics as a MacBook Pro keyboard & touchpad; this way I can essentially use this like a headless laptop. So far I've found some acrylic stuff that looks sort of jank; anyone found a good solution for something like this?
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Feb 22, 2024 00:29
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metztli posted:I'm trying to find something that will let me fit a Magic Keyboard and Magic Touchpad in something to let it be more or less the same ergonomics as a MacBook Pro keyboard & touchpad; this way I can essentially use this like a headless laptop. So far I've found some acrylic stuff that looks sort of jank; anyone found a good solution for something like this? if you aren't handy i'd just find a local woodworker in your area to have them cut you a little frame to mount them in
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Feb 22, 2024 02:07
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metztli posted:I'm trying to find something that will let me fit a Magic Keyboard and Magic Touchpad in something to let it be more or less the same ergonomics as a MacBook Pro keyboard & touchpad; this way I can essentially use this like a headless laptop. So far I've found some acrylic stuff that looks sort of jank; anyone found a good solution for something like this? https://iwoodstore.com/products/apple-magic-keyboard-tray-walnut
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Feb 22, 2024 02:17
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personally i wish they'd border all around but that walnut looks nice
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Feb 22, 2024 02:20
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Inspect Your Gadgets > Apple Vision Pro - I have too much Botox and the Persona scan doesn't register me raising my eyebrows.
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Feb 22, 2024 05:00
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mediaphage posted:if you aren't handy i'd just find a local woodworker in your area to have them cut you a little frame to mount them in Good call - I'm looking for something thats flush, and most of the ones I see on Etsy have a bit of a lip or dip - I guess I could ask the maker to make one custom but eh, rather give someone local some business. Yeah those aren't quite flush and I just know it would get to me over time. Ideally I'd love something identical to a M1 16" MBP base, in weight and size. metztli fucked around with this message at 15:13 on Feb 22, 2024 |
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Feb 22, 2024 15:10
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