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ThisIsJohnWayne
Feb 23, 2007
Ooo! Look at me! NO DON'T LOOK AT ME!



Kazinsal posted:

Anyone who thinks that "trying to slow down the degeneration of basic rights for American citizens and fumbling on some things" and "actively aiming to turn the country into an evangelical ethnostate" are the same political ballpark -- hell, the same loving sport -- should get their internet privileges restricted to a 1200 baud modem and an 80x24 text-only terminal from 1975.

You know what haggling is? You know what a chicken race is? You know full well why I'm asking you rhetorical questions? People who pretend they won't vote are hoping to alter the deal of incremental progress. Squeaky wheel gets the grease can't be a novel concept needing analysis, come on

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psydude
Apr 1, 2008

ThisIsJohnWayne posted:

You know what haggling is? You know what a chicken race is? You know full well why I'm asking you rhetorical questions? People who pretend they won't vote are hoping to alter the deal of incremental progress. Squeaky wheel gets the grease can't be a novel concept needing analysis, come on

You've got a whole new generation of voters who weren't alive for the 2000 election and were mostly in middle school in 2016, both elections where third party candidates shifted the outcome. I don't think a lot of them will end up using the level of political calculus you just outlined - I think a lot of them will pull the level for third parties.

psydude fucked around with this message at 07:47 on May 2, 2024

lightpole
Jun 4, 2004
I think that MBAs are useful, in case you are looking for an answer to the question of "Is lightpole a total fucking idiot".
Let's take a quick look at the Trump platform. We can ignore prosecuting his political opponents, first among them Joe Biden. If SCOTUS doesn't give him immunity he deserves it. DoJ is a weapon so weaponize that poo poo.

Mass deportations? What's the big deal, they are "just poisoning the blood of our country". gently caress it give the police immunity and then mobilize the security apparatus of the US, including the DoD, to round them up.

Cartels? Yeah we need another full on drug war in Latin America, especially with our closest neighbor.

NATO and allies? Naw gently caress that poo poo. Let Russia "do whatever they want".

Education? Abolish the DoE, "put parents back in charge and give them the final say" and then give funding preferences and "favorable treatment" to schools that allow election of principals. His 1776 commission and further plans are just indoctrination.


Theres more but this is tedious because what the gently caress who looks at any of this and is like "Oh yeah but what about Biden he never gave me my $2000 he promised" so here's what really scares me:

Bureaucracy: Cut everything. Political litmus tests as a condition of employment. Support Trump or get hosed. Fully weaponize the bureaucracy by filling it bottom to top with bootlickers and entrench them. Cut competence with no regard for need or relevance. The federal government is still recovering from his last term and there are still huge gaps and long wait times. It was a train wreck and this will be an absolute tragedy.

bad_fmr
Nov 28, 2007

I feel like the Muslim ban and move US embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem president might be even worse for Palestinians than Sleepy Joe.

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

lightpole posted:

Let's take a quick look at the Trump platform.
Cool. What do you think is the persuasive efficacy of this approach to a left-leaning voter who is genuinely emotionally invested in the belief that the Biden admin is complicit in genocide? More than zero, for sure, but enough for November in battleground states? It's hard to guestimate just how many might sit out, but the polls are already way too close.

Again, I agree that voting for Biden is the best option, but this response to people expressing genuine hurt over the situation probably isn't the best approach. Even if you vehemently disagree with their perspective and can't empathize with them. While the doomers are absolutely making the most of the tensions, there's a lot of sincere feeling.

Dem voters pushing for the administration to correct its course seems both more morally correct and politically efficacious. The admin could even assert the framing that holding Israel accountable is pro-Israel, restraining its far-right leader's worst impulses to protect the principles the country was rhetorically founded on.

Or just bomb the IDF until it can't continue its campaign :shrug:

Cugel the Clever fucked around with this message at 08:29 on May 2, 2024

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

BREADS
Trump was already president for four years.

A lot of people feel that they already know what 47’s term would be like.

The largest group who believe that his second term will be quite different is his own MAGA base. They believe that he will deliver on his promises. Most people left of Mitch McConnell do not.

bad_fmr
Nov 28, 2007

lightpole
Jun 4, 2004
I think that MBAs are useful, in case you are looking for an answer to the question of "Is lightpole a total fucking idiot".

Cugel the Clever posted:

Cool. What do you think is the persuasive efficacy of this approach to a left-leaning voter who is genuinely emotionally invested in the belief that the Biden admin is complicit in genocide? More than zero, for sure, but enough for November in battleground states? It's hard to guestimate just how many might sit out, but the polls are already way too close.

Again, I agree that voting for Biden is the best option, but this response to people expressing genuine hurt over the situation probably isn't the best approach. Even if you vehemently disagree with their perspective and can't empathize with them. While the doomers are absolutely making the most of the tensions, there's a lot of sincere feeling.

Dem voters pushing for the administration to correct its course seems both more morally correct and politically efficacious. The admin could even assert the framing that holding Israel accountable is pro-Israel, restraining its far-right leader's worst impulses to protect the principles the country was rhetorically founded on.

Or just bomb the IDF until it can't continue its campaign :shrug:

Oh cool. You're right. Sit it out and ignore the guy that moved the embassy to Jerusalem and further enabled the Isreali right wing while also pushing Nazi language. My bad.

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

lightpole posted:

Oh cool. You're right. Sit it out and ignore the guy that moved the embassy to Jerusalem and further enabled the Isreali right wing while also pushing Nazi language. My bad.
Yep, like I said, it's not the right decision from my point of view. But is that going to persuade a Michigander with family ties to Gaza who's been following the war crimes being perpetrated against their relatives? Or the variety of other groups in the Democratic base who for one reason or another are emotionally invested in the plight of Palestinians?

bad_fmr
Nov 28, 2007

If you can find the answer to "How do we convince people not to vote against their best interests" you have pretty much solved the central problem of democracy.

lightpole
Jun 4, 2004
I think that MBAs are useful, in case you are looking for an answer to the question of "Is lightpole a total fucking idiot".

Cugel the Clever posted:

Yep, like I said, it's not the right decision from my point of view. But is that going to persuade a Michigander with family ties to Gaza who's been following the war crimes being perpetrated against their relatives? Or the variety of other groups in the Democratic base who for one reason or another are emotionally invested in the plight of Palestinians?

What the gently caress else is there to say? If they aren't persuaded then better things aren't possible and we deserve everything we get.

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

lightpole posted:

What the gently caress else is there to say? If they aren't persuaded then better things aren't possible and we deserve everything we get.
Why not offer them a reason to vote for Biden instead of against Trump? The US has already rhetorically stated that there will be consequences if Israel goes too far—it can simply back up those words with incremental public action (gonna need to be more than abstaining from a watered-down UN resolution). That would get attention and, though it won't appease everyone, it would ensure fewer sit out.

The admin could also be a lot more careful about painting the whole of the human rights protests as anti-Semitic, pushing back on the Republican narrative to make all the clearer that there is meaningful difference between the parties and that a vote would matter.

e: fwiw I suspect the admin has really been banking on the negotiations to be successful shortly and is afraid to change course until that resolved one way or another

Cugel the Clever fucked around with this message at 09:18 on May 2, 2024

Soul Dentist
Mar 17, 2009
I'm voting for Mickey Mouse, but because of his political platform and choice of running mate

Hannibal Rex
Feb 13, 2010

Platystemon posted:

Trump was already president for four years.

A lot of people feel that they already know what 47’s term would be like.

The largest group who believe that his second term will be quite different is his own MAGA base. They believe that he will deliver on his promises. Most people left of Mitch McConnell do not.

Yeah, no. The American far right is very eager not to repeat the mistake of 2016 and start with a massive purge of all state institutions, so there'll be no sane people left to rein in the loonies this time.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025

The entire world has to deal with the consequences of your election, and we don't get a vote. So those of you who can vote better make drat sure you do.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

BREADS
“You should take Trump at his word this time” is a correct statement, but you have to recognize how weird it is.

AreWeDrunkYet
Jul 8, 2006

Cugel the Clever posted:

Why not offer them a reason to vote for Biden instead of against Trump? The US has already rhetorically stated that there will be consequences if Israel goes too far—it can simply back up those words with incremental public action (gonna need to be more than abstaining from a watered-down UN resolution). That would get attention and, though it won't appease everyone, it would ensure fewer sit out.

Here's a simple reason - in a first past the post electoral system, if you want your electoral preferences represented the best strategic option is to vote every time and vote for the least bad viable candidate in general elections. People aren't entirely rational of course and it's not entirely fair to blame individuals for making bad choices in a system that's designed poorly. But that's not changing any time soon, and anyone who considers themselves at all politically informed and is even thinking about voting for someone other than Biden in a general election is not thinking it through, delusional, or actually prefers Trump. Not voting, spoiling your ballot, or voting for a third party in a first past the post system is not a meaningful protest, and while it's nice wishful thinking that the least bad candidate or party has to "earn" your vote that only helps put worse people in power.

AreWeDrunkYet fucked around with this message at 10:56 on May 2, 2024

Xakura
Jan 10, 2019

A safety-conscious little mouse!

Hannibal Rex posted:

The entire world has to deal with the consequences of your election, and we don't get a vote. So those of you who can vote better make drat sure you do.

pantslesswithwolves
Oct 28, 2008

Kith posted:

My take on the 2024 Election is as follows:

Biden has done a lot of really good poo poo. Economy policies, student loan debt forgiveness, environmental stuff, supporting the auto workers' union, actually following through with his promise to help out the locomotive workers after he broke their strike because the country would fall apart if he didn't, and a lot of other things that I can't think of off of the top of my head. Biden is also, at this very moment, enabling the genocide of Palestinians by sending arms shipments to Israel. In a sane world, this would disqualify him from my vote, because I don't give a gently caress about how many nice things he's given me, my closest friends' families have been slaughtered and he's actively supporting that.

But this is not a sane world.

I pulled the lever for the Green Party in 2020 because I couldn't bring myself to vote for a man that I believe to be a sexual predator. But January 6th was a wake-up call: the Alt-Right weren't shitposters on /pol/ or bellowing manchildren in yellow shirts anymore, they were a bloodthirsty crowd in our nation's capitol and they very nearly succeeded in getting the blood that they craved. A Trump presidency would instill in them a new boldness that we are not likely to survive, to say nothing of the policies he promises that would bring ruin to us and beyond.

In the end, it's a modern spin on the classic Trolley Problem:
  • On one hand, pulling the Biden lever allows the trolley operator to continue barreling through a bunch of innocent brown people who are inconveniencing Israel by existing, and the trolley operator might even pull the brake if the passengers complain loudly enough about the cries of the dying.

  • On the other hand, doing anything else runs the risk of bringing back the old trolley operator that promised to equip the trolley with fully automatic weapons that fire wildly in every direction, more efficiently slaughtering innocent brown people and also putting the passengers (myself and everyone I care about included) in immediate and serious danger. Additionally, the old trolley operator does not believe in brakes, and has promised to stomp on the accelerator at every available opportunity until the trolley explodes, killing everyone.

I do not like Biden. I hate him, in fact. However, I will vote for Biden because it's the only chance we have.

I wish I had any other choice.

This is pretty much exactly where I'm at. The US government has made some important policy decisions that have legit made a lot of people's lives better/easier, even if I get the feeling that Biden had to be pulled along by his advisers to get there on some of these things (especially weed), and there's absolutely no doubt that Trump would be worse on quite literally every single issue. But this:

quote:

Biden is also, at this very moment, enabling the genocide of Palestinians by sending arms shipments to Israel. In a sane world, this would disqualify him from my vote, because I don't give a gently caress about how many nice things he's given me, my closest friends' families have been slaughtered and he's actively supporting that.

is a very salient point that can't be ignored. We didn't have a competitive primary season where voters could state their preferences; Joe decided that he was the best person to beat Trump again even though polls tell an uncomfortably different story and the DNC fell in line. Regardless of the public outcry and mild statements condemning certain Israeli actions/actors, the administration continues to shovel billions of dollars of weapons at a country whose response to an atrocious attack has been wildly and dangerously disproportionate. And it also doesn't help that the Biden administration puts out what should have been a milquetoast statement on Passover that bizarrely singles out college campuses when the protests were ramping up:

quote:

This blatant Antisemitism is reprehensible and dangerous – and it has absolutely no place on college campuses, or anywhere in our country.

If you're a student who is participating in these protests because you care about the human rights and lives of the people being bombed into paste, then this is an absolute slap in the face from the man who expects you to fall in line and vote for him in November. I can understand why people are heaping blame on Biden during the protests, even though it's absurd to think he's directing the police response (which I would also argue is wildly and dangerously disproportionate!)

People threatening to withhold their votes is the last tactic they can employ since the administration has indicated that it won't change course on its own and have been dismissive of protests in general. As I've mentioned before when this topic has come up, I live in DC, a city with two electoral votes that went at least 90% against Trump in 2016 and 2020, so my vote in the general election simply doesn't matter, and yeah, I'll still pull the lever for Biden in November because he's not Donald loving Trump. However, I do plan on voting "uncommitted" during DC's "primary" because I have no other meaningful way of telling Biden that he is loving up enormously. And as painful as it is, I can understand why a Palestinian-American voter in Michigan is agonizing about voting for Biden or staying home, but saying "well actually you know Trump would be way worse than Biden on this issue" because they loving know that, which is why it's so painful to watch the "better" guy continuing to aid the country that's bombing their extended family into paste.

bad_fmr posted:

If you can find the answer to "How do we convince people not to vote against their best interests" you have pretty much solved the central problem of democracy.

Again, the greatest lie that political science has ever convinced itself of is that voter behavior can be explained.

Soylent Pudding
Jun 22, 2007

We've got people!


Israel is genociding Palestinians. Dems say it must be done slowly with decorum and insist on slight restraint. Trump says they're not genociding quickly or thoroughly enough. While frankly the Dems will save far more Palestinian lives, genocide count: Biden 1, Trump 1.

Russia is attempting to genocide Ukraine. Dems support Ukraine. Chuds have fully embraced Russian propaganda and will work to ensure Russian success. Genocide count Biden 1, Trump 2.

China is genociding the Uighers. Dems don't say poo poo, but Biden has been working to shore up alliances against Chinese imperialism and reduce economic dependence on China. Republicans don't say poo poo except as an excuse to say racist things about the Chinese. They push a lot of performative anti-China laws while actually weakening counter China cooperation in the in the Pacific. Genocide count, Biden 2, Trump 3.

Red states are genociding trans people. Genocide count Biden 2, Trump 4.

Chuds are calling for a new round of central American drug wars, mass deportation of Hispanics, and deliberate inhumane treatment of Hispanic refugees fleeing the consequences of our previous imperial meddling. Genocide count, Biden 2, Trump 5.

Can I have no genocide? No? well gently caress me, but at least two is less than five.

Now if y'all will excuse me but I need to go see if my representative just voted for the law saying I'm a Jewish antisemite because I want to see Operation Israeli Freedom depose the WMD possessing Netenyahu regime and bring democracy to the Israeli people.

Steezo
Jun 16, 2003
Now go away, or I shall taunt you a second time!


Soylent Pudding posted:


Now if y'all will excuse me but I need to go see if my representative just voted for the law saying I'm a Jewish antisemite because I want to see Operation Israeli Freedom depose the WMD possessing Netenyahu regime and bring democracy to the Israeli people.

Pre '48 borders or GTFO.

facialimpediment
Feb 11, 2005

as the world turns
If you want to inject some levity into the proceedings, here's a business owner that likely just detonated her vegan restaurant because she doesn't know her clientele, got irrationally angry at a migrant paying for food with a prepaid card, and Donnie's belief that she has time travelling powers.

https://twitter.com/compujeramey/status/1785804047049494854?t=0IRbIo4G3rvvJzhaOkUQlw&s=19

pantslesswithwolves
Oct 28, 2008

Meanwhile, First Amendment, what's that?:

quote:

House Republicans are seeking to unite their unruly majority around an evergreen conservative cause, devising a strict response to the wave of pro-Palestinian protests that have roiled college campuses across the country in recent weeks.

GOP leaders this week announced plans for new oversight investigations of elite universities where — in the words of House Republican Whip Tom Emmer (Minn.) — “pro-terrorist anti-Semites [are] taking over.” And on Wednesday, they passed the Antisemitism Awareness Act, which its advocates said would empower the federal government to crack down on anti-Israel protests on campuses by codifying a definition of antisemitism that encompasses not just threats against Jews, but also certain criticisms of Israel itself.

“We must give the Department of Education the tools to … hold college administrators accountable for refusing to address antisemitism on their campuses,” said Rep. Michael Lawler (R-N.Y.), the bill’s lead sponsor.

The bill was approved by a vote of 320-91, with a majority of Democrats — 133 — joining Republicans.


Lawler’s bill — with 61 co-sponsors, including 15 Democrats — would create “a clear definition of antisemitism” in U.S. law that the Education Department could then use to cut off funding to academic institutions found to tolerate such behaviors. The definition, however, has drawn fierce opposition from First Amendment advocates such as the American Civil Liberties Union and liberal Democrats, who say it veers sharply into the realm of restricting political views.

It’s unclear what the bill’s prospects are in the Democratic-controlled Senate or how the White House views it. Previous iterations failed to muster sufficient support in Congress, but both its supporters and opponents say the ongoing protests and a rise in antisemitism since Hamas’s Oct. 7 attack on Israel have injected fresh momentum.

If it does become law, the federal definition of antisemitism, adopted from the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance, would include such speech as “claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor”; “applying double standards” to Israel that are “not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation”; and “drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.”

The idea is that student-held signs, for example, like those displayed at Columbia University in New York this week, calling for “revolution” or “intifada” — which means “uprising” — would amount to antisemitism under the law. The Education Department, in turn, could then revoke federal research grants and other funding to a university that fails to take punitive action toward students who express such views, the bill’s proponents say.

Several Republicans said opposing Zionism — the political movement to create, and now to preserve, a state for Jews in their biblical homeland — would qualify as antisemitism under the law. Some suggested that even holding a prolonged protest would constitute antisemitism. “The erection of encampments on college campuses isn’t an expression of speech,” Rep. Marcus J. Molinaro (R-N.Y.) said on the House floor Wednesday. “It is a direct threat to Jewish students on college campuses.”


But the “double standards” example and the notion that Nazi comparisons are off-limits in the case of Israel, among other aspects of the definition, are deeply problematic because they’re too broad and present “viewpoint discrimination,” said Tyler Coward, lead counsel for government affairs at the Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression, a First Amendment advocacy organization.

“Nowhere else in First Amendment law does it say that you can criticize a certain country up to a certain limit, or else you might risk violating federal anti-discrimination law,” he said.

“The First Amendment allows individuals to criticize every country in the world, including our own” — and that includes comparing other governments to the Nazis, however disturbing many Americans may find that comparison to be, Coward said.

Rep. Jerry Nadler (D-N.Y.), a Jewish lawmaker who has co-sponsored other bills aimed at combating antisemitism and described himself Wednesday as a “deeply committed Zionist,” urged colleagues to reject Lawler’s bill, which he characterized as “misguided” because it “threatens to chill constitutionally protected speech.”

“If this legislation were to become law,” he said, universities wanting to avoid federal investigation “could end up suppressing protected speech criticizing Israel or supporting Palestinians,” and students and faculty might be driven to self-censor.

Student protesters demonstrate against the war in Gaza at Columbia University in New York on Monday. (Victor J. Blue for The Washington Post)

Debate on the House floor grew heated at times, as both sides accused the other of neglecting American values in favor of politics. Pro-Palestinian campus protests have included Jewish participants, and some Democrats noted that several liberal Jewish groups oppose the bill, in addition to the man who authored the antisemitism definition for the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance.

Republicans pointed to incidents of violence and destruction, exaggerating some — such as a report by a Jewish student at Yale who said she was “jabbed” in the eye by a pro-Palestinian protester bearing a Palestinian flag. According to irate lawmakers on the House floor this week, the student, who appeared uninjured when she spoke to CBS News, had been “stabbed in the eye.”


Rep. Josh Gottheimer (N.J.), a centrist Democrat who co-sponsored the legislation with Lawler, pushed back on his colleagues’ free speech concerns, saying he “ensured” the bill “protects the First Amendment” because that is important to him. “It allows criticism of Israel,” he said. “It doesn’t allow calls for the destruction or elimination of the Jewish state.”

Opposing elite, often left-leaning universities has for years been a popular rallying cry for Republicans, and it could prove even more so in an election year in which intraparty tension over how to handle the war in Ukraine and other national security policy questions has slowed congressional action in other areas. The antisemitism bill and college oversight efforts allow conservatives to demonstrate moral clarity in support of Israel while spotlighting divisions among Democrats.

“What Republicans seem to be doing is bringing forward things that they hope will divide us,” Rep. Pramila Jayapal (D-Wash.), leader of the Congressional Progressive Caucus, told reporters this week, noting that several liberal Jewish groups oppose the measure because the definition of antisemitism is so broad. “So why would you do that, except if you want to weaponize antisemitism and you want to use it as a political ploy?”

Polls have shown the American public has grown uncomfortable and divided over U.S.-Israel policy in the six-plus months since Hamas waged a devastating cross-border terrorist attack on Israel and Israel began its punishing campaign of retaliation, destroying most of the Gaza Strip’s infrastructure and displacing most of its 2.2 million Palestinian residents.

The ongoing Israeli offensive, which has so far killed more than 34,000 people, according to local health authorities, and given rise to famine, has unleashed a furor among liberal college students in particular, who have disrupted classes and shut down campuses in protest, calling for their institutions to divest from funding, investments and partnerships with the state of Israel.

Police in New York arrested some 300 people overnight Wednesday, after officers in riot gear breached a campus building that had been occupied by pro-Palestinian protesters. A separate pro-Palestinian encampment at UCLA meanwhile came under attack from counterprotesters, who unleashed fireworks and chemical sprays at the student activists, igniting clashes and a fierce rebuke from the campus newspaper’s editorial board.

Many liberals have called for police restraint and for university administrators to respect a long-standing tradition of campus activism, including antiwar movements. Democrats who oppose Lawler’s bill also called the Republican effort to crack down on antisemitism disingenuous and hypocritical, pointing to Republicans’ frequent defense of free speech — and condemnation of liberals’ “cancel culture” — in other contexts.

“How dare the party of Donald Trump and Marjorie Taylor Greene come down here and lecture Democrats about antisemitism,” Rep. Teresa Leger Fernandez (D-N.M.) said on the House floor Tuesday. “Remember, the leader of the Republican Party, Donald Trump, dines with Holocaust deniers, and said there were ‘fine people on both sides’ at a rally where white supremacists chanted ‘Jews will not replace us.’”

Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-Ga.) said she opposed the bill because she was concerned it could be used to persecute Christians who claim the Jews killed Jesus — a belief that is regarded by many Jews as an antisemitic trope. “Antisemitism is wrong,” she wrote on X on Wednesday, adding that she would not vote for the law because it “could convict Christians of antisemitism for believing the gospel that says Jesus was handed over to Herod to be crucified by the Jews.”

House Democratic Leader Hakeem Jeffries (N.Y.) urged Democrats to back an alternative, also bipartisan antisemitism measure introduced in the House by Rep. Kathy Manning (D-N.C.) that would establish new positions focused on antisemitism at the White House and the Education Department and require federal law enforcement to conduct an annual threat analysis of antisemitism in America.

Even if this bill doesn't survive the Senate or get signed into law, it's still disturbing that so many House Democrats voted in favor of this.

bird food bathtub
Aug 9, 2003

College Slice

pantslesswithwolves posted:

Meanwhile, First Amendment, what's that?:

Even if this bill doesn't survive the Senate or get signed into law, it's still disturbing that so many House Democrats voted in favor of this.

"Blood and soil" Republicans say they're :airquote: concerned :airquote: about antisemitism and people still take them seriously. There is nothing there to salvage, if a Republican is saying something they're lying. Tiki torch marchers aren't voting for Biden.

facialimpediment
Feb 11, 2005

as the world turns
I-95 in Connecticut is closed.

https://twitter.com/katrosenfield/status/1786016026792009987?t=IPz8fiGGGWsmIqBMoqlgRA&s=19

CBJSprague24
Dec 5, 2010

another game at nationwide arena. everybody keeps asking me if they can fuck the cannon. buddy, they don't even let me fuck it

Soylent Pudding posted:

Israel is genociding Palestinians. Dems say it must be done slowly with decorum and insist on slight restraint. Trump says they're not genociding quickly or thoroughly enough. While frankly the Dems will save far more Palestinian lives, genocide count: Biden 1, Trump 1.

Russia is attempting to genocide Ukraine. Dems support Ukraine. Chuds have fully embraced Russian propaganda and will work to ensure Russian success. Genocide count Biden 1, Trump 2.

China is genociding the Uighers. Dems don't say poo poo, but Biden has been working to shore up alliances against Chinese imperialism and reduce economic dependence on China. Republicans don't say poo poo except as an excuse to say racist things about the Chinese. They push a lot of performative anti-China laws while actually weakening counter China cooperation in the in the Pacific. Genocide count, Biden 2, Trump 3.

Red states are genociding trans people. Genocide count Biden 2, Trump 4.

Chuds are calling for a new round of central American drug wars, mass deportation of Hispanics, and deliberate inhumane treatment of Hispanic refugees fleeing the consequences of our previous imperial meddling. Genocide count, Biden 2, Trump 5.

Can I have no genocide? No? well gently caress me, but at least two is less than five.

Now if y'all will excuse me but I need to go see if my representative just voted for the law saying I'm a Jewish antisemite because I want to see Operation Israeli Freedom depose the WMD possessing Netenyahu regime and bring democracy to the Israeli people.

Chuds are saying pregnant women whose pregnancies may not be feasible should die because Jeebus thinks babies are cute and says they should live regardless and, even if they die, well, He Works In Mysterious WaysTM. Biden 2, Trump 6.

stealie72
Jan 10, 2007

bird food bathtub posted:

"Blood and soil" Republicans say they're :airquote: concerned :airquote: about antisemitism and people still take them seriously. There is nothing there to salvage, if a Republican is saying something they're lying. Tiki torch marchers aren't voting for Biden.
My (then 15 year old) daughter went to a "Holocaust Memorial Luncheon" presented by several prominent local Jewish organizations with some of her freshman honors history class last year.

Several very old and prominent members of the local Jewish Community went up and gave speeches and ultimately an award to our very Republican governor.

My freshman daughter reacted like "what the gently caress? This is the party whose supporters had a klan rally about jews not replacing them a few years ago."

The point being, a loving 15 year old can figure this poo poo out.

psydude
Apr 1, 2008

Steezo posted:

Pre '48 borders or GTFO.

Let's not give the Tories any more brilliant ideas.

facialimpediment
Feb 11, 2005

as the world turns
One of the Donnie nicknames is now legally canon:

https://twitter.com/KlasfeldReports/status/1786033918379962428?t=pWTnWJJau4Tjs9OLdNYfkw&s=19

Soylent Pudding
Jun 22, 2007

We've got people!


stealie72 posted:

My (then 15 year old) daughter went to a "Holocaust Memorial Luncheon" presented by several prominent local Jewish organizations with some of her freshman honors history class last year.

Several very old and prominent members of the local Jewish Community went up and gave speeches and ultimately an award to our very Republican governor.

My freshman daughter reacted like "what the gently caress? This is the party whose supporters had a klan rally about jews not replacing them a few years ago."

The point being, a loving 15 year old can figure this poo poo out.

One of the Jewish Republican state reps in Florida who also pushes a bunch of anti-trans poo poo was asked about Florida's neo-nazi problem and whether Republican rhetoric could be contributing to it. He said that definitionally Republicans can't be anti-Semitic because they support Israel and called the reporter insane because obviously anti-semites wouldn't be supporting Israel. Motivated reasoning is a hell of a drug.

CommieGIR
Aug 22, 2006

The blue glow is a feature, not a bug


Pillbug

Soylent Pudding posted:

One of the Jewish Republican state reps in Florida who also pushes a bunch of anti-trans poo poo was asked about Florida's neo-nazi problem and whether Republican rhetoric could be contributing to it. He said that definitionally Republicans can't be anti-Semitic because they support Israel and called the reporter insane because obviously anti-semites wouldn't be supporting Israel. Motivated reasoning is a hell of a drug.

Yeah, reminder that the rabid evangelical that power the GOPs leadership think the Jews taking Israel is part of the requirement for Jesus to come back, so they like Jews....just not here.

facialimpediment
Feb 11, 2005

as the world turns
Biden talked, probably making nobody happy:

https://twitter.com/cspan/status/1786053574687859056?t=vyMxeu0XZp0ysKSQfbYh5Q&s=19

Nothing really new and lefties mad that Biden's blending the encampments, building takeovers, and violent counter-protests (like at UCLA) all into one blob.

Edit: https://twitter.com/jenhab/status/1786052305126584650?t=OW56-sghio1qhW-MZLzTag&s=19

facialimpediment fucked around with this message at 16:46 on May 2, 2024

Soul Dentist
Mar 17, 2009

Is that an overpass in there?

bird food bathtub
Aug 9, 2003

College Slice

Soul Dentist posted:

Is that an overpass in there?

Well, the char-bequed remains of one at that point. Wouldn't trust that poo poo to hold weight at all after that.

Shoutout to the brain genius just chilling on the sidewalk, hanging out 50 feet away from the blazing wall of hellfire erupting from that truck. Certainly wasn't a towering intellect that kept them alive at that moment.

Proud Christian Mom
Dec 20, 2006
READING COMPREHENSION IS HARD

lightpole posted:

What the gently caress else is there to say? If they aren't persuaded then better things aren't possible and we deserve everything we get.

boy sure sounds like you should spend your energy trying to get the biden administration to change its ways rather than vote scolding

McNally
Sep 13, 2007

Ask me about Proposition 305


Do you like muskets?
If we could redirect all this election chatter to this tread please that would be great:

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3946374

facialimpediment
Feb 11, 2005

as the world turns
baaaa baaaaaa baaaaaaaaaaaaa

oh sorry the GOAT just put out another banger

https://twitter.com/jaketapper/status/1786070240796799484?t=rtmKXf5I-G3Eap8P7axKhQ&s=19

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004


joat mon posted:

And also as facialimpediment noted, all this "proposed rule, public comment, OIRA, final rule, congress, effective date, "Why can't Biden wave his magic wand"" whining is exactly why Trump was so thankfully less effective than he could have been if he understood how the government worked.

It's weird how my post was very short but you somehow didn't bother to read it. Thanks for this useless wall of text!

And yes, there were anonymous sources. In an article about this very subject!

Nothing has actually changed in the scheduling of pot. Nothing is going to change in the future, because this is just words being said to make people think that Biden is going to do those things. But he doesn't actually want to change anything about pot because that's how he gets money. So this is all just claims of things that are totally really going to happen, and then the football gets pulled, and nothing will fundamentally change.

Do you not remember the last time a few years ago when the biden administration did the same thing about pot? There was a whole thing about "hey we're totally talking and doing studies about possibly rescheduling pot" and then it dropped off the face of the earth?

facialimpediment
Feb 11, 2005

as the world turns

CainFortea posted:

Do you not remember the last time a few years ago when the biden administration did the same thing about pot? There was a whole thing about "hey we're totally talking and doing studies about possibly rescheduling pot" and then it dropped off the face of the earth?

... that's how things are done under federal rescheduling rules.

WSJ posted:

In October 2022, Biden directed health officials to expedite a review of whether marijuana should remain a Schedule I substance. In August, the Department of Health and Human Services notified DEA that it was recommending marijuana be reclassified. The agency relied on a Food and Drug Administration scientific analysis that found marijuana has an accepted medical use and evidence it can treat certain conditions, including nausea and vomiting. It also cited studies showing “moderate benefit” of smoking marijuana for pain.

This poo poo takes a long time. And if you don't take that time, your new regulation gets overturned by the courts. So it's a good thing Biden's going by the book (too slow), because there are already lawsuits coming:

politico posted:

A public comment period will follow the announcement of the DOJ’s decision on cannabis’ scheduling. Lawsuits challenging the move are also expected. Anti-legalization group Smart Approaches to Marijuana announced recently they would file a citizens’ petition to have the DOJ move cannabis back into schedule I if they do decide to move it out of that category.

So I'm convinced that Things Are Actually Happening. You're not convinced because of sourcing and other factors. All fine, but one of us will be proven right when the federal rule hits the public register in the near future. They're following the same procedures they did with the non-compete clause ban because that's how executive branch regulation making has to run.

Edit: in fact, on the non-compete clause stuff, that just went final, it started in... January 2023

FTC posted:

In January 2023, the FTC issued a proposed rule which was subject to a 90-day public comment period. The FTC received more than 26,000 comments on the proposed rule, with over 25,000 comments in support of the FTC’s proposed ban on noncompetes. The comments informed the FTC’s final rulemaking process, with the FTC carefully reviewing each comment and making changes to the proposed rule in response to the public’s feedback.

poo poo takes forever when Congress won't do it!

facialimpediment fucked around with this message at 19:25 on May 2, 2024

Hyrax Attack!
Jan 13, 2009

We demand to be taken seriously

Would it be accurate to say a huge reason pot isn’t legal yet is lobbying from industries that would be negatively impacted, like why they still make pennies? In WA a few years back when there was voting on letting grocery stores sell liquor there were tv ads from Very Concerned Firefighters about easier access for kids, but for the actual spending it was nearly 100% Costco on one side & the other was beer companies as I guess liquor on the shelves hurts their sales.

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bird food bathtub
Aug 9, 2003

College Slice
What the gently caress even is reality anymore? I don't know. I guess all that's left is to laugh at this insane asylum we live in, so here, have some lols from another thread.

kazil posted:

TOO MANY TRUMP LOLS TODAY

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