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With the dollar so weak, I think using Chrysler plants to get the 500 into the US is looking like a good move on Fiat's part. The base price of a Mini is up over 20 grand, and the Japanese can't be making much on their small (and imported) offerings here at the moment, as they can't raise their prices without losing to Hyundai/Kia (and Ford) with their own weak currency. Hah...and the Mexican peso is weaker than usual against the already weak dollar, so they win on that front, too. Basically they couldn't have timed this better. It may not last, but it will be a sweet couple of years for them.
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Jan 2, 2011 17:37
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How is the Kia Soul is the best selling subcompact in America? And how is that still 1/8 the volume of the F150?
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Jan 3, 2011 03:24
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Dirt cheap. They start at just over 13k.
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Jan 3, 2011 03:34
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NOTinuyasha posted:And how is that still 1/8 the volume of the F150?
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Jan 3, 2011 04:31
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NOTinuyasha posted:How is the Kia Soul is the best selling subcompact in America? And how is that still 1/8 the volume of the F150? I think its because it and the Versa are quite a bit larger than most of the other stuff on that list. It has more passenger and cargo volume than a 5 series wagon. http://autos.aol.com/cars-compare?c...mileage=&spAd=y It's like a little Range Rover Sport. 
Throatwarbler fucked around with this message at 05:02 on Jan 3, 2011 |
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Jan 3, 2011 04:49
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Pretty sure the Fit still has more usable interior space than either. Also where the heck are those economy figures coming from? A Fit is rated a lot better than an Aveo here and my own experience would tend to agree with that.
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Jan 3, 2011 05:24
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Got the chance to drive one today. 500 Sport in Grigio with sunroof and a few other options. Sticker was around $18,700 or something like that, plus markup (I'll get to that later). First impressions are good. It's a small, inexpensive car that doesn't look cheap. All the parts look well put together and the detailing in the lights and wheels is nice. Inside, the door panels feel a bit flimsy but the part where your arm goes is nicely padded. The rest of the interior is well done although the seats are a bit on the soft side for me. I fit just fine (I'm 5'8") and someone around 5'3" could probably get behind me without too much issue. The driving position is a bit strange; it feels like sitting on a normal dining chair. I kept trying to adjust the seat to make it lower but it turns out that's as far down as it goes. As a result, you're more pressing down on the pedals rather than forward. I could see myself getting used to it pretty quickly. The windshield is huge and gives very good visibility. This one has a sunroof. The sunroof cover is one of those mesh things like in a MINI so it doesn't really block out any light or heat. I'd avoid getting the sunroof altogether. I've never driven a car with so little power before, so I was expecting to be at least a little disappointed. I wasn't. The power is, well manageable I guess would be the word. I only got it up to about 4k RPM or so since the car only had 8 miles on it but I imagine that's where most people do their day-to-day driving anyway. I was a bit surprised by the torque when I gave it a little gas in second at 20 mph. You can set off below 2,000 RPM and the engine won't bog. Power is definitely not a deal breaker here. I put it in Sport mode for a bit, which didn't seem to make a difference in power delivery, but it firmed up the steering. Not a whole lot; I'd say it was about halfway between the sport and non-sport modes on my MINI Cooper S. In sport mode, it had better steering feel than my MINI (although that might be down to the larger/heavier wheels and tires on my MINI). The clutch was very forgiving. I didn't stall or slip it once, although it was a bit difficult to feel the engagement point. I'm not sure I'd pay the extra 2k for the Sport model. It still has some body roll and the responses aren't as sharp as a MINI. It's not exactly what I think of when I hear 'sport', but it's certainly not a Corolla either. A base model with Bluetooth and alloy wheels is $16,500. That's a great deal and you don't really need any other options. The dealer had three cars out front that were marked up in the form of customer care packages (~1,700) and nitrogen in the tires ($180, unbelievably). The sales lady said I could get one of the ones in the back that hadn't been prepped yet without all that stuff. I could also custom order one and it would take about six weeks (I live in Southern California). I would love to have one of these. It's not particularly fast or economical or practical but I just felt good driving it and that's really my top criteria when buying a car.
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Mar 20, 2011 02:25
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Saw a Prima Edizione version today on Queen St. E (hipster town) in Toronto. Looked really good, I'm dying to get my hands on one or go for a test drive. Just to make things better, it looks like the Ferrari/Maserati dealership is selling them. At least they'll know how to deal with fiery Italian machines.
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Mar 20, 2011 03:17
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hedge posted:nitrogen in the tires ($180, unbelievably) Don't you usually get this for free at any good tire shop?..
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Mar 20, 2011 03:38
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^ I still can't believe people are paying for that scam.
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Mar 20, 2011 06:21
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el topo posted:Don't you usually get this for free at any good tire shop?..
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Mar 20, 2011 06:53
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You're quite right about the driving position, you sit quite upright in all Fiat's small cars. Probably because you need the short wheelbase to have a small overall size, but you can increase the height a fair amount without compromising that characteristic. I have oodles of headroom in my Panda, significantly more than in my parents' Citroën C5, which is a much much bigger car. I'm glad you're getting the new Multiair engine in the US, it's got that fancy new fully variable valve system (and no throttle valve, I think BMW has something similar, too) and won Best New Engine of 2010. Like you noted, it drives great below 4000rpm for normal driving, but you really owe it to yourself to rev it like an Italian  It also makes 170hp and 180 lb-ft in the Alfa MiTo, so there should be plenty of room for tweaking. KozmoNaut fucked around with this message at 16:56 on Mar 20, 2011 |
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Mar 20, 2011 10:52
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I saw a Fiat Abarth 695 while driving through munich today, the one that Ferrari collaborated on. I loved the look of it from the pictures I saw, but in reality it looks really over the top and borderline  .And that car should have at least 240 hp. I thought it was somewhat embarrassing when he boldly accelerated, switched to the third lane and had to make room for some random guy in a 3.0L diesel A4 Avant. 
eames fucked around with this message at 16:03 on Mar 20, 2011 |
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Mar 20, 2011 15:57
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Geoj posted:^ How do you get out of it, though? "No thanks, just top it off with air and I'll save my money." "But we already put it in, and get get the nitrogen out and back into our special tanks." "I don't care, just get regular air in there and don't charge me." "..." I could see them giving an endess runaround about it.
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Mar 21, 2011 00:35
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kimbo305 posted:How do you get out of it, though? Order some new tires and wheels, mount and balance them, associate the TPMS with the vehicle and then save your stupid nitrogen tires for the next car. OR, just take it off the bill.
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Mar 21, 2011 01:00
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NOTinuyasha posted:How is the Kia Soul is the best selling subcompact in America? And how is that still 1/8 the volume of the F150? Three words... Hip. Hop. Hamsters.
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Mar 21, 2011 01:06
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kimbo305 posted:How do you get out of it, though? Tell the salesman he can either sell you the car without the nitrogen charge or you're walking. Odds are they'll take the $180 (or whatever charge) off the invoice rather than lose the sale. It can't cost them more than $20 to evacuate the tires, fill them with nitrogen and replace the filler caps with green ones. Geoj fucked around with this message at 03:17 on Mar 21, 2011 |
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Mar 21, 2011 03:14
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The Rocket Salad posted:Fleet sales, and to a considerable portion of contractors (the other demographic) trucks seem to be more or less disposable i.e. replaced on a fairly regular cycle. Also, how many competitors does the F-150 have? Fewer than the Soul. Maybe a half-dozen, while the Soul has one or more from almost every automaker in the US market. The numbers should be bigger for any individual pickup model even if the total market were smaller.
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Mar 21, 2011 04:00
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I saw two different 500's when I was in Austin for SXSW. The first one I saw was band-aid colored, and let me tell you, that is not a good looking color for any car. The second one I saw was the glossy red and daaaaamn it looked good. I wish I could have seen them parked so I could have taken pics.
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Mar 24, 2011 15:37
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The best colour 500 is the Diesel Edition (brand, not engine) bakelite green. It is loving Amazing. If the 500 wasn't too small for work I'd be buying one at the end of the year.
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Mar 24, 2011 15:50
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I sat in a 500 at the recent auto show. Stupidly, Dodge only brought one that you could sit in, while they had two painted-whore display models for you to gawp at. I'm not entirely sure what trim level I was sitting in (the Dodge attendant didn't know either) but it had a neat red plastic dash that got fingerprints on it fairly easily. I liked the seating position but could have done with more bolstering, and the shifter felt like the usual Dodge/cheap-car manual transmission with wimpy linkages and indistinct gates. There's a lot more room inside than I originally thought there would be; it seemed definitely more livable than a Mini or Merc B-class. The engine bay seems surprisingly workable; it's fairly clean and easy to reach the fluid reservoirs, though anything serious (like a timing belt) is gonna be a huge pain. As a side note, they also brought like five Durangos and a pair of booth attendants who literally verbally berated passersby for not wanting to give your wife and kids the safety and comfort of a Dodge Durango. Some lady started yelling at them halfway through the third time they went back to that "skit." Dodge, it's just not cool to have a screechy woman dressed up like a housewife tell you at 90dB that you're a terrible dad for not buying a nice SUV for your stay-at-home, bang-out-eighty-kids wife. Seat Safety Switch fucked around with this message at 17:04 on Mar 24, 2011 |
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Mar 24, 2011 17:01
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echoplex posted:The best colour 500 is the Diesel Edition (brand, not engine) bakelite green. It is loving Amazing. If the 500 wasn't too small for work I'd be buying one at the end of the year. There is also this:  The 500 Blackjack, it isn't even that more expensive than the regular models.
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Mar 24, 2011 17:20
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Lilleput posted:There is also this: Oh wow, I didn't want a black one but that looks great... I still really like the white with the Italian flag color stripes on the side, but I don't think that's offered in the US.
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Mar 24, 2011 18:12
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edit, whoops.
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Mar 24, 2011 18:18
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Seat Safety Switch posted:the shifter felt like the usual Dodge/cheap-car manual transmission with wimpy linkages and indistinct gates. That's a standard feature on all Fiats. That and horribly wimpy synchros, I double clutch all my downshifts now.
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Mar 24, 2011 19:04
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Seat Safety Switch posted:I'm not entirely sure what trim level I was sitting in (the Dodge attendant didn't know either) but it had a neat red plastic dash that got fingerprints on it fairly easily. I liked the seating position but could have done with more bolstering, and the shifter felt like the usual Dodge/cheap-car manual transmission with wimpy linkages and indistinct gates. Body-colored plastic dash panel is standard across all trims.
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Mar 24, 2011 19:06
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The dealer will instantly take off any nitrogen charge and also the stupid security numbers they try to sell you. Those numbers by the the way will save you $2 a year on your insurance. I told the guy he would have to bumper to bumper warranty the car for 100 years for me to recover the cost. Dealers like money.
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Mar 24, 2011 21:54
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So what's the current situation with these? Are they being sold at select Chrysler dealerships until a Fiat network is in place or do they already have a few Fiat dealers set up?
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Mar 25, 2011 03:19
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I was looking forward to checking one out at the auto show. Holy disappointment, batman. It's comically tall for it's length and width, the proportions just seem strange. Driving position is very upright and elevated. And interior was chock full of lovely silver-painted plastic that bows, flexes, stains and scratches like it's an etch-o-sketch. At 17 grand, I can't imagine why in a world would anyone buy one over a Fit/Fiesta/Versa, except for the "gotta have it" factor.
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Mar 25, 2011 03:40
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travisray2004 posted:So what's the current situation with these? Are they being sold at select Chrysler dealerships until a Fiat network is in place or do they already have a few Fiat dealers set up? They've just set up a Fiat dealership Toledo, Ohio, right along the Central Ave Strip. The building itself had been vacant for the past few years, but its been spruced up with new cladding & signage and there are a handful of 500s sitting in the lot.
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Mar 25, 2011 05:37
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Nitrox posted:I was looking forward to checking one out at the auto show. Holy disappointment, batman. It's comically tall for it's length and width, the proportions just seem strange. Driving position is very upright and elevated. And interior was chock full of lovely silver-painted plastic that bows, flexes, stains and scratches like it's an etch-o-sketch. At 17 grand, I can't imagine why in a world would anyone buy one over a Fit/Fiesta/Versa, except for the "gotta have it" factor. Are you sure you were sitting in the right car? Because I've found none of this to be true.
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Mar 25, 2011 06:17
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Nitrox posted:At 17 grand, I can't imagine why in a world would anyone buy one over a Fit/Fiesta/Versa, except for the "gotta have it" factor. To be fair, its beyond me why anyone (who knows anything about cars) would buy a new econobox. Wait a few years for the first ones that go out on lease to come back and buy one for less than $10k with less than 30k on the OD.
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Mar 25, 2011 06:24
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Geoj posted:To be fair, its beyond me why anyone (who knows anything about cars) would buy a new econobox. Wait a few years for the first ones that go out on lease to come back and buy one for less than $10k with less than 30k on the OD. Mr. Wiggles posted:Are you sure you were sitting in the right car? Because I've found none of this to be true. Nitrox fucked around with this message at 06:55 on Mar 25, 2011 |
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Mar 25, 2011 06:52
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Geoj posted:To be fair, its beyond me why anyone (who knows anything about cars) would buy a new econobox. Wait a few years for the first ones that go out on lease to come back and buy one for less than $10k with less than 30k on the OD. Tell me about it. My car costs 1/3 of the new price at 3 years old with 25k miles. I'll never understand people buying brand new small hatchbacks.
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Mar 25, 2011 10:30
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Blacknose posted:Tell me about it. My car costs 1/3 of the new price at 3 years old with 25k miles. I'll never understand people buying brand new small hatchbacks. Depends on the car, MY GTI is 4 years old with 42k miles and is still worth 66% of what I paid new. Though I did get a really good price new.
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Mar 25, 2011 16:44
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I'm not complaining, it meant I got an absolute bargain.
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Mar 25, 2011 17:10
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Blacknose posted:Tell me about it. My car costs 1/3 of the new price at 3 years old with 25k miles. I'll never understand people buying brand new small hatchbacks. This isn't small cars, this is any car. In fact, its even worse for full size luxury vehicles. A CLS500 can loose half its value or more in 4 years, a Quarttoporte can loose seventy percent+.
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Mar 25, 2011 18:07
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Nitrox posted:Buying a new car at near 0% interest is cheaper than paying high interest on a lightly used car that lost only a quarter of it's value. This is not about knowing cars, it's about managing finances. Yeah, because everyone qualifies for a near-0% auto loan...
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Mar 25, 2011 18:24
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Nitrox posted:I went right for it, there was only one. Okay then you must have been sitting in a preproduction model or you're just misremembering. It's a great car on a great chassis that handles well and someday, someday, will come with this: 
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Mar 25, 2011 19:13
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Mr. Wiggles posted:Okay then you must have been sitting in a preproduction model or you're just misremembering. It's a great car on a great chassis that handles well and someday, someday, will come with this: I need to find a part time job or start a meth lab or something in preparation for that day
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Mar 25, 2011 19:31
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