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IOwnCalculus posted:They really are excellent to drive. I took one for a test drive and it reminded me a LOT of my '99 Miata, just with less power and a hard top, so yeah I'd definitely like to know if anyone has driven both. The Fiat has more style, but it's not as good underneath.
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Aug 15, 2011 17:41
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einTier posted:I got to thrash both around a race track a few weeks ago. The Mazda 2 was definitely more fun and seemed more capable, though we didn't actually time laps. I was really surprised by the brakes on the 2. Overall, considering it's one of the cheapest cars you can buy, it's pretty drat good. Good to know (also, you could buy one for less than putting the Cayman back on the road  )The Abarth will flip that around, I'm sure.
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Aug 15, 2011 17:52
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IOwnCalculus posted:The Abarth will flip that around, I'm sure. What I still want them to do is put the Panda 4x4 transmission and 500 Abarth engine into the Panda 100HP chassis, it'd be like having a half-scale Evo or WRX.
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Aug 15, 2011 18:16
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IOwnCalculus posted:The Abarth will flip that around, I'm sure. Yeah but for how much more money. Doesn't sound like you can do better than a Mazda 2 for under 15k in terms of fun to drive factor. The base Fiat sounds more like a stylish driving appliance than something that's actually fun to drive. I wonder if the Mazda 2 is drive by wire, may explain why it feels better if it isn't.
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Aug 15, 2011 18:35
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InitialDave posted:Maybe, maybe not. While some cars are transformed by upgrades to sportier versions, what you really want is something that's a complete hoot even with the housewife-spec powertrain. Well the Abarth is going to have nearly twice the horsepower, and will be significantly cheaper than a Mini Cooper S
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Aug 15, 2011 20:22
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Detroit Q. Spider posted:How the hell do you mess up the steering and clutch feel on a "sporty" compact? Isn't the Euro-spec supposed to have really good feel? I've driven a pre-America euro spec one and let me tell you the clutch is one of the worst I've experienced.
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Aug 15, 2011 20:51
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Well how about that. So I guess the 500 is indeed more of a "lifestyle" thing more than a hot hatch. Kinda disappointing really. The Mazda suggestion was solid though. Pretty much every Mazda I've driven in anger has been a hoot and a half.
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Aug 15, 2011 21:04
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heat posted:Well the Abarth is going to have nearly twice the horsepower, and will be significantly cheaper than a Mini Cooper S
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Aug 15, 2011 21:44
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Detroit Q. Spider posted:Well how about that. So I guess the 500 is indeed more of a "lifestyle" thing more than a hot hatch. Kinda disappointing really. It was never going to be a hot hatch; the Abarth is the hot hatch. Remains to be seen how the Abarth actually is. I am very hopeful that it will cure the issues I have with the regular 500 in terms of power, gearbox and clutch. I didn't mind the EPS too much.
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Aug 15, 2011 22:12
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There isn't an issue to be cured with the clutch though - thats just what Fiats feel like and you'll quickly get used to it. Pretty sure the 2 is drive by wire but the system is relatively transparent in it - I don't think they've done anywhere near the amount of monkeying with it in the quest for fuel economy as a lot of other manufacturers did. Surprised to hear the US spec 2 actually drives better than the Fiesta overall though, definitely a reversal from the ones available in my part of the world.
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Aug 16, 2011 00:03
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I've driven a Mazda2 a few times on test drives and it's a drat good car for the money. If you needed something dead reliable, fun and new for the least amount of money, the Mazda2 is the only ticket in town. It doesn't have any power (surprise), but it understeered less out of the box than a 2010 MX-5 around the same corners.
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Aug 16, 2011 00:07
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dissss posted:There isn't an issue to be cured with the clutch though - thats just what Fiats feel like and you'll quickly get used to it. I don't think there has been a cable accelerated car for a few years now, emissions requirements rendered them unusable. More correct would be to complain about their programming, the hardware is fine and can open the throttle plate faster than you can push the pedal down 
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Aug 16, 2011 00:20
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DJ Commie posted:I don't think there has been a cable accelerated car for a few years now, emissions requirements rendered them unusable. More correct would be to complain about their programming, the hardware is fine and can open the throttle plate faster than you can push the pedal down I'll just bitch about the fact that the DBW throttle body in my Mazdaspeed3 is flaking out and will cost me $500 or so to replace.
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Aug 16, 2011 00:50
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leica posted:Have you test driven the Mazda 2? I'm curious how it would compare, Mazda tends to keep the driving experience intact, and a Mazda 2 with a manual sounds like it could be a fun little car. I've seen a few around and they look MUCH better than the Fiesta. The 500 has the better interior (although the driving position is a little awkward) and looks better overall. It also feels a bit more special, something you'd smile about just seeing it in the parking lot. That last bit is actually important to me but I already own a MINI so whatever.
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Aug 16, 2011 03:19
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hedge posted:I've put about 500 miles on my 2 since I bought it two weeks ago. It doesn't compare too well to the competition on paper but it just works in real life. I did a test drive of a 500 a while back (there's a review somewhere in this thread). The Mazda wins in overall handling and feedback. The gearbox is significantly better. The clutch is slightly numb but not as much as the 500. The steering feels more natural and gives much more feedback (they're both electric systems). The brakes aren't too touchy and work well despite rear drums. It rides quite well, although my 2 is on 15" steel wheels and I tested a 500 Sport. The 2 is also cheaper (I paid $1200 less than the cheapest 500) and there's 0% financing right now. It takes regular fuel (I forget if the 500 does or not) and makes the same power despite not having direct injection of fancy Multiair. Can taller/bigger people drive the Mazda 2 comfortably? I'm 6'5" and haven't had ta chance to sit in one yet.
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Aug 16, 2011 03:56
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Hughmoris posted:Can taller/bigger people drive the Mazda 2 comfortably? I'm 6'5" and haven't had ta chance to sit in one yet. I'm 6'9 and was ok in a fiesta. nobody would be sitting behind me, but it wasn't bad.
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Aug 16, 2011 04:17
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Hughmoris posted:Can taller/bigger people drive the Mazda 2 comfortably? I'm 6'5" and haven't had ta chance to sit in one yet.
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Aug 16, 2011 04:24
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Thanks guys, I just spent 2 hours doing research on the Mazda 2. I'm curious as to when it's going to get the Skyactiv engine, info is pretty vague.
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Aug 16, 2011 04:25
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Hughmoris posted:Can taller/bigger people drive the Mazda 2 comfortably? I'm 6'5" and haven't had ta chance to sit in one yet. 6'4" and was closer to 280lb when I test drove one; no problem, though I had to get used to how close the driver and passenger seats are to each other. Wouldn't want to be in the seat behind me, but hell, that's the case in my 3 as well. Sorry to have turned this into more Mazda chat
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Aug 16, 2011 05:41
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Just out of curiosity stopped by the Mazda dealer while running some errands to check one out. The interior and exterior is much better than the Fiesta, a lot more on the sportier side. Very tempting, but I probably wouldn't consider one until they're down around 5k used, so maybe ten years? Haha.
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Aug 16, 2011 07:19
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leica posted:Just out of curiosity stopped by the Mazda dealer while running some errands to check one out. The interior and exterior is much better than the Fiesta, a lot more on the sportier side. Very tempting, but I probably wouldn't consider one until they're down around 5k used, so maybe ten years? Haha. They should all be thanking you for supporting their future resale value.
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Aug 16, 2011 15:18
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leica posted:Have you test driven the Mazda 2? I'm curious how it would compare, Mazda tends to keep the driving experience intact, and a Mazda 2 with a manual sounds like it could be a fun little car. I've seen a few around and they look MUCH better than the Fiesta. Yes, one of my friends just bought one with a manual transmission. The 500 and the 2 both have electric power steering; however the 2 has much tighter and responsive feel to it and the clutch engagement is better. Neither of the cars compare to a first generation Miata/Neon/VW GTI though. The 500 and the 2 are the lightest (practical) new cars on the market. I'm crazy about the weight of cars, so there are only three new cars left that are worth purchasing if you ask me. 1) Lotus Elise = 1,931lbs (2011 is the last year before they get fat ala 2,500lbs) 2) Mazda 2 = 2,306lbs (manual) 3) Fiat 500 = 2,363lbs (manual) and then there is my lowly '02 Toyota Echo at 2,128lbs.  I converted it to manual steering and stiffened the suspension. To me, it's more of a sports car than the S2000 I used to own.*edit* This doesn't really matter, but I figured I should mention that the Mazda 2 is hideous to look at. That goofy Mazda signature grin on the front of their cars is a joke. Someone should be fired for that.
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Aug 16, 2011 18:39
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When I was a kid, one of my dad's cars was a Citroen AX. About 90bhp in 1,500lbs.
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Aug 16, 2011 18:54
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toaster_pastry posted:and then there is my lowly '02 Toyota Echo at 2,128lbs. Haha are you serious? If so, my next car is an Echo. And yeah the smiley face sucks on Mazdas, but it's not as pronounced on the 2 as the it is on the 3 which is horrible. I could live with it on the 2 I think. [edit] drat the Mazda 2 weighs less than my 96 Kia 
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Aug 17, 2011 07:20
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The smiley face is the best reason to own a Mazda IMO. 
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Aug 17, 2011 17:31
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Technically if you don't like the smiley face on the Mazda 2 you can always buy a Fiesta, they're built on the same platform. I quite liked the Fiesta, with the upper trims you do get a lot for your money.
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Aug 17, 2011 19:31
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Is the Fiesta at all different from the 2? Like different suspension and whatnot?
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Aug 17, 2011 19:41
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Of Mazda's line, I think the Mazda2 wears the smile best. Maybe the Shinari concept's design language'll rub off and we'll see more a more pug-like corporate face in future redesigns.
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Aug 17, 2011 19:52
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Well according to Edmunds the Fiesta has a slightly larger and more powerful engine (1.6 vs. 1.5, 120 BHP vs. 100) with at least comparable mileage. It's also listed as about a grand more, so I guess that's something to consider.
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Aug 17, 2011 19:54
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Detroit Q. Spider posted:Well according to Edmunds the Fiesta has a slightly larger and more powerful engine (1.6 vs. 1.5, 120 BHP vs. 100) with at least comparable mileage. It's also listed as about a grand more, so I guess that's something to consider. The Fiesta has the DSG while the Mazda2 still has a 4 speed auto. Insideline has a longterm Mazda2 http://blogs.insideline.com/roadtests/Vehicles/2011-mazda-2-touring/
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Aug 17, 2011 20:06
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Existing Chrysler stores in selected markets could apply for a Fiat franchise; I think they gave out about 160 of them. There's a list on Fiat's website. Not sure what the situation is in the States, but here in Canada it seems that Fiats are being sold through existing Chrysler dealerships. I guess the thinking is the infrastructure is already in place and, if the Fiat/Chrysler partnership falls apart, Fiat wont be left with a bunch of useless real estate. However, not every dealership is stocking the 500s -- I live just outside of Toronto and only one of the two (or three) Chrysler dealerships in my city are selling them. I took one out for a test drive today and I was pleasantly surprised; even on the highway it was a lot better than I expected. It feels a lot bigger than it looks (if that makes sense). I think I'm going to pull the trigger on a Lounge, I just can't decide between black or red (or that premium red). Black with all chrome everything would be nice but I kind of want something flashy. unlimited shrimp fucked around with this message at 20:31 on Aug 17, 2011 |
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Aug 17, 2011 20:08
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el topo posted:Technically if you don't like the smiley face on the Mazda 2 you can always buy a Fiesta, they're built on the same platform. From what I've read you can feel the extra weight on the Fiesta, the extra tech is fun to play with though.
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Aug 17, 2011 20:31
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Yeah, the reviews I've read have said the Fiesta is "softer" than the 2. I think it was C/D that compared the two with the Honda Fit, and they said the 2 was the most fun to drive, the Fiesta was the least, and the Fit nicely split the difference. I really wanna drive a 500 convertible. If it's fun to drive and that roof seems durable, it might be my next car, if I can get over my Volkswagen-born mistrust of European cars.
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Aug 17, 2011 20:37
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The Fiesta has a more comfort oriented suspension setup.
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Aug 17, 2011 21:07
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:The Fiesta has a more comfort oriented suspension setup. Some days this doesn't seem like such an awful thing though. 
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Aug 17, 2011 22:01
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Detroit Q. Spider posted:Some days this doesn't seem like such an awful thing though. this type of talk should be a ban-able offense 
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Aug 18, 2011 00:03
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toaster_pastry posted:this type of talk should be a ban-able offense Hey man I can't help it if I'm getting old and easily bruised OK?!?!?
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Aug 18, 2011 00:11
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toaster_pastry posted:this type of talk should be a ban-able offense I say the same thing every time I get back from LA, but forget about it after a day on Phoenix's roads again.
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Aug 18, 2011 01:29
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Detroit Q. Spider posted:Is the Fiesta at all different from the 2? Like different suspension and whatnot? Since someone brought up ride quality I'll point out that the seats in the 2 are unusually cushy, which helps significantly with comfort on rough roads. At least as far as your spine is concerned.
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Aug 18, 2011 01:48
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 Fiat ContentI put my new wheels on my 500 today, I'll do the lowering springs this weekend. 
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Aug 18, 2011 06:39
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