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I don't know if this is a widespread thing but the car dealer I talked to left a voicemail on my phone telling me that there's an additional $1000 rebate on all Fiat 500s, even the Pops with the $1500 rebate from before. It's worth noting that the final price he quoted me at was 5% below invoice. I could probably ride off in a 500 Pop with all the extra options for $15,000. I probably won't do it, though. While the 500 was really fun to drive and had a great interior, it just doesn't seem that practical for me as a daily driver. If only FIAT would bring over some of their bigger vehicles...
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Aug 18, 2011 06:48
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Corbet posted:If only FIAT would bring over some of their bigger vehicles... Which one do you like the look of?
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Aug 18, 2011 07:44
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Bulk Vanderhuge posted:Thanks guys, I just spent 2 hours doing research on the Mazda 2. The Skyactiv that will be in the 2 in other markets is a 1.3L that puts out 85HP, and the Skyactiv in the US Mazda3 is a 2.0L making 167HP. Not sure if Mazda is willing to sell a car with 5 seats sporting only 85HP, or develop an in-between engine, or drop a 163HP lump into a tiny car. Fiat sells an 85HP version of the 500 in Europe called the TwinAir. It is powered by an 875cc 2cyl turbo, and apparently makes the car more fun to drive even if it is a little bit slower. If either this thing or the Mazda 2 with the 1.3L can pull of a 50MPG highway rating, they would both find enough buyers.
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Aug 18, 2011 08:29
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Jork Juggler posted:Fiat sells an 85HP version of the 500 in Europe called the TwinAir. It is powered by an 875cc 2cyl turbo, and apparently makes the car more fun to drive even if it is a little bit slower. If either this thing or the Mazda 2 with the 1.3L can pull of a 50MPG highway rating, they would both find enough buyers. They're not designed as highway cars - they are meant to get very good economy on the urban cycle. That's not to say they wouldn't be good on the highway, that's just not where they're aimed.
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Aug 18, 2011 08:39
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dissss posted:Which one do you like the look of? Honestly, most of their larger hatchbacks seem pretty cool, particularly their Grande Punto.
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Aug 18, 2011 13:30
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Just want a Panda 4x4.
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Aug 18, 2011 17:47
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Corbet posted:Honestly, most of their larger hatchbacks seem pretty cool, particularly their Grande Punto. There's a pretty good rule of thumb, the larger a Fiat gets, the crappier it is. The Panda and 500 were the cars that helped turn Fiat around from an utter fiasco to a company with enough spare cash to buy up more than half of Chrysler LLC. On the other hand, the Croma (their largest car to date) is dreadful and should have been named the Coma. Nobody makes small cars quite like Fiat, but every time they try their hand at larger cars, they gently caress it up. KozmoNaut fucked around with this message at 19:14 on Aug 18, 2011 |
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Aug 18, 2011 19:08
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OBUMMER gave Chrysler to FIAT for free, right after he personally killed the Firebird. 
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Aug 18, 2011 20:09
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Jork Juggler posted:Not sure if Mazda is willing to drop a 163HP lump into a tiny car.
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Aug 18, 2011 20:37
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Throatwarbler posted:OBUMMER gave Chrysler to FIAT for free, right after he personally killed the Firebird.  The Firebird was the first death panel victim
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Aug 18, 2011 20:37
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In terms of small-car power, bear in mind Vauxhall will sell you a Corsa with 192bhp.
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Aug 18, 2011 20:41
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InitialDave posted:In terms of small-car power, bear in mind Vauxhall will sell you a Corsa with 192bhp. The Cruze is available with that same engine (at slightly less power, 180hp I think) in other markets. I think it's one of those SAAB/Opel developed engines that don't meet America emissions requirements, like the 2.8l turbo V6 in the Insignia.
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Aug 18, 2011 21:11
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Saab used a turboed version of that 2.8 in the past in North America, I can't imagine it would be too difficult to federalize. Edit: yeah they're both listed under LP9 so I don't think that engine is really a good example of what you're talking about. Pretty much every mass-market engine line is designed as a world engine platform at this point.
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Aug 18, 2011 21:19
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Saab used a turboed version of that 2.8 in the past in North America, I can't imagine it would be too difficult to federalize. They used it in the SRX until this year and it's still in the SAAB version of the SRX I think. It had to be detuned to a lower power level, had all kinds of reliability issues (the famous one where they melted a piston because someone accidentally put regular instead of premium in the tank) and every reviewer hated it anyway, so they canned it after like 1 or 2 years. Even GM's engineers admit that it was a terrible engine choice and they should have used the 3.6l Camaro engine to begin with. http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/car/11q3/2012_cadillac_srx-first_drive_review The 1.6T is one of those old old designs that still uses a timing belt, if they bring it here it will probably suck and be too expensive. Throatwarbler fucked around with this message at 21:26 on Aug 18, 2011 |
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Aug 18, 2011 21:22
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Yeah I know it wasn't great but they did use it in the TurboX at full power.
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Aug 18, 2011 21:49
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Yeah I know it wasn't great but they did use it in the TurboX at full power. The SRX, 9-5 and 9-4x have more power than the Turbo Xxxxxxxxx (300hp vs 280hp), I was referring to it being detuned compared to the Insignia OPC which was 325hp. EDIT: Bleep bloop GM is a bad company.
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Aug 18, 2011 22:06
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Apparently we'll be getting a limited edition 500 by Gucci. Maybe this means we'll get some of the other special versions of the 500 too?
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Aug 19, 2011 04:55
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Finally, a car to match my purse and pumps. Guess I don't need a Miata anymore!
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Aug 19, 2011 06:48
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MaverickSWAT posted:Apparently we'll be getting a limited edition 500 by Gucci. Maybe this means we'll get some of the other special versions of the 500 too? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WJFjXtHcy4
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Aug 19, 2011 18:26
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D C posted:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WJFjXtHcy4 what the gently caress did I just watch?
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Aug 19, 2011 19:01
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Jay Leno has a video up where he drives the 500 and talks about the MultiAir engine: http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/video/2012-fiat-500-prima-edizione/1346961/
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Aug 20, 2011 19:16
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KozmoNaut posted:Jay Leno has a video up where he drives the 500 and talks about the MultiAir engine: They gave him Prima Edizione 2/500 
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Aug 20, 2011 23:12
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heat posted:They gave him Prima Edizione 2/500 That's sort of his deal. He does publicity for a car on his site, and in return gets one for himself.
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Aug 20, 2011 23:50
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Leno's Fiat 500 looked WAY nicer than the one I drove for a week in Italy. His has roughly twice the horsepower of the one I had, too, which is good because the 68hp version is dangerously underpowered. Kinda funny when the program manager went through the laundry list of things they had to change to bring it to the US market. Jumbo cupholders as standard I can understand, but why the suspension changes, stronger rear end, more powerful engine, new glovebox, etc? Why wouldn't those have been in the Euro version, too?
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Aug 21, 2011 00:39
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grover posted:Kinda funny when the program manager went through the laundry list of things they had to change to bring it to the US market. Jumbo cupholders as standard I can understand, but why the suspension changes, stronger rear end, more powerful engine, new glovebox, etc? Why wouldn't those have been in the Euro version, too? Because those things all suit American tastes, not necessarily European ones. When you're paying a lot more for fuel, insurance, registration etc things other than engine power become far more important. I doubt any Italian (for instance) would say the basic model they get is 'dangerously underpowered'
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Aug 21, 2011 00:47
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dissss posted:Because those things all suit American tastes, not necessarily European ones. Why do Europeans like open glove box compartments? Do they not keep the car's paper work in it?
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Aug 21, 2011 01:25
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dissss posted:I doubt any Italian (for instance) would say the basic model they get is 'dangerously underpowered' They might if they have to merge on a modern american highway with semi trucks doing 80 mph and not moving over for you.
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Aug 21, 2011 01:31
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wav3form posted:They might if they have to merge on a modern american highway with semi trucks doing 80 mph and not moving over for you. I take it you've never driven in Italy. Edit: Yes I'm semi joking as European merges seem to be mostly set up better but European traffic can still be pretty crazy and they do make do with far less powerful cars on average. dissss fucked around with this message at 01:45 on Aug 21, 2011 |
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Aug 21, 2011 01:39
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dissss posted:I take it you've never driven in Italy. No I haven't. Pretty bad over there too?
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Aug 21, 2011 01:44
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I seemed to manage LA just fine with 53hp in a (then) 20 year old 1800lb car. And I certainly did not drive slowly. edit: though at 2000lbs+ and that screaming 993cc @ 53hp (hatchbacks carry almost anything), it was a bit more laborious to get up to 85. DJ Commie fucked around with this message at 02:06 on Aug 21, 2011 |
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Aug 21, 2011 02:03
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KozmoNaut posted:Jay Leno has a video up where he drives the 500 and talks about the MultiAir engine: "You could buy two of these for the price of a McLaren exhaust system!" Great video, saw his Syclone/Typhoon in the background. I really want the Abarth to hurry up and get released so I can decide which one to get.
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Aug 21, 2011 02:13
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grover posted:Kinda funny when the program manager went through the laundry list of things they had to change to bring it to the US market. Jumbo cupholders as standard I can understand, but why the suspension changes, stronger rear end, more powerful engine, new glovebox, etc? Why wouldn't those have been in the Euro version, too?
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Aug 21, 2011 03:17
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Ah, OK, so US just got a lot of the updates first. Makes a bit more sense than significant US-only changes. dissss posted:I take it you've never driven in Italy. grover fucked around with this message at 04:46 on Aug 21, 2011 |
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Aug 21, 2011 04:43
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grover posted:It's a city car, plain and simple. You can't escape physics- the shell might be stiff, but those crumple zones aren't enough to withstand a crash at highway speeds. If a crash with no crumple zones is like falling off the top of a building, the Fiat 500 is like putting two cheap mattress on top of the pavement. To a certain extent thats true, but I' still rather crash in a new 500 than a fifteen year old Camry/Maxima/generic mid sizer. I actually like the overly aggressive Italian driving style - you always know where you stand and as long as you don't run into anything in front of you you can mostly trust the traffic behind to not run into the back of you. Then again I was in a comparatively big and powerful Renault Megane with tourist plates, both of which may have made the locals wary.
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Aug 21, 2011 05:05
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Test drove a Sport at a Fiat dealership today. I thought the Sport's seat was great, and the styling was cool, and that was about it. Some notes, which taken together, probably give off a negative review: - the little armrest on the driver's seat creaked when you put your arm on it and felt like it could snap off. Signs of cheap build quality are everywhere. - the body-colored accent going across the dash should not be shiny. The fact that it's almost vertical means you'll probably never get glare off of it unless it's really early or late in the day, but when sun got on the white car we sat in, it was pretty bad. I hope there's an alternative choice or an aftermarket solution for this. The saleswoman said most people loved it. - the manual has some zip from 2-4k, but is pretty weak otherwise. So power delivery is not very fun when you really want rev it out. The motor sounds pretty nice, though. - the auto upshifted and accelerated fairly smoothly, but seemed to be indecisive while slowing down. - the clutch has twice the travel of the other pedals, and feels like a toy. The shifter is easy to use but also suffers from being really light and loose. I wonder if there's more they could have done to mask the econocar origins. - ride is pretty good, but floaty on the highway as you might imagine. It was quiet at 70 - The satellite radio controls weren't the easiest to use on the faceplate, but the steering wheel controls were well positioned and intuitive. - steering was awful. Even with the SPORT mode turned on, it was extremely numb. This was probably the number 1 negative for me. Bizarrely, the saleswoman claimed that SPORT mode came in a burst, and you had to keep activating it when you wanted to use it, ala KERS in F1. Obviously that's totally wrong. But she also said that leaving it in SPORT mode killed fuel economy, a fact which she claimed a rep from NY had corroborated. I have no idea - room up front is good. I'm 5'10" with long legs and short torso and there was several inches above my head. Room in back is fine. I could sit there but couldn't use the headrest at its max height; it was still too low. Actually, I think it was too low in the front at full extension, too. The back of my head just didn't fit into the hollow of those stylish circular headrests. I wanted to test drive the Mazda 2, which approaches the econobox from the opposite tack -- naked cheapness but fun driving. But the dealership we went to across the street wouldn't send anyone out to greet us, pacing the lot looking at the 2s. They had a whole out of business hours left  so we said gently caress those guys and bailed.I think the way I'm gonna frame the 500 to people I talk to will be: "a hopefully reliable econobox with some really committed styling. If you really like the style and don't care about the dead steering or the econobox build quality, you should get it." e: I didn't reveal the dealership because I didn't want to call them out publicly. That saleswoman didn't know much about the cars, which is not a good thing for a one-model brand trying to make a comeback into the country. Is there a polite way I could tell the management to get her more trained up on the cars? She was called a "product specialist," for chrissake. I want the 500 to do well, despite its flaws. Would rather the people selling them really know the car inside and out. kimbo305 fucked around with this message at 06:15 on Aug 21, 2011 |
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Aug 21, 2011 05:45
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The Mazda 2 is pretty great and I recommend it; my wife and I bought one earlier this year. We didn't get a chance to compare to the 500, but it's more fun to drive than the other cars in the class (Fit, Fiesta, Yaris, etc...). The clutch is a bit weird; the friction point is near the top of the petal travel and quite long. My wife loves it, but it's so different than the VWs I've been driving for the last decade it's taken me a bit to get used to it. The electric power steering system works well--you get decent road feel, and it basically disappears with speed providing some stability on the highway. The car is very light though, and will get blown around a bit at speed. Seats are pretty comfy; we drove 12-hours away and back again last weekend and I had no problems. The back seats will fit a pair of adults, but probably would become uncomfortable on a long drive. But a reasonable car for a single or small family.
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Aug 21, 2011 14:04
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kimbo305 posted:- steering was awful. Even with the SPORT mode turned on, it was extremely numb. This was probably the number 1 negative for me. Bizarrely, the saleswoman claimed that SPORT mode came in a burst, and you had to keep activating it when you wanted to use it, ala KERS in F1. Obviously that's totally wrong. But she also said that leaving it in SPORT mode killed fuel economy, a fact which she claimed a rep from NY had corroborated. I think this is a Fiat-thing. Not just the steering feeling but also the suspension setup. My friends 500 Abarth really didn’t feel much different from my sister’s 2007 Grande Punto, which I consider the worst handling/steering and most boring car on this planet. It’s like the engineers decided to fit a dead fish somewhere between the steering shaft and tie-bars. Considering US cars are going to be set up even softer than the EU cars, I have no idea how anyone can tout these cars to be "fun to drive". I suspect that these people would probably have a permanent orgasm while operating a GTI or Cooper S. I’m really curious how the MiTo Quadrifoglio Verde is like. All the Alfas I’ve driven so far were 40+ years old (and a total blast).  My secret hope is that Fiat will go "oh hey, just kidding, this is the real Abarth" by presenting a 270hp rear-engined version of it, but who am I kidding. Until then it just doesn’t love up to it’s awesome brand with an even more awesome history. 
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Aug 21, 2011 15:17
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I don't care about the awkward driving position or the lack of steering feel or the numb clutch anymore.    http://italiaspeed.com/2011/cars/abarth/08/frankfurt_iaa_preview/abarth_500_cabrio_italia/3008.html quote:In Frankfurt next month Abarth will show a special series model that aims to promote elegance and style: the Abarth 500 "Cabrio Italia" comes in a special Blu Abu Dhabi livery - a tribute to Italian design in the year of the 150th anniversary of Italian unity - combined with an electrically operated black top and tinted rear windows.
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Aug 31, 2011 04:28
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Why add a carbon fiber knob to a shifter that feels like it only weighs 3 ounces?
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Aug 31, 2011 05:25
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kimbo305 posted:Why add a carbon fiber knob to a shifter that feels like it only weighs 3 ounces? So it will feel like it only weighs 2 ounces, duh.
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Aug 31, 2011 07:16
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