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Ghostpilot posted:What I'm saying is not that non-fighting games can't be challenging or that they don't require skill, it is that what was described is not a fighting game. You're kind of splitting hairs: competitive starcraft and casual starcraft are worlds apart (more so than even fighting games), but casual (which doesn't necessarily means single player) starcraft is still an RTS. If you want to define "fighting games" as strictly "competitive fighting games", that's fine, but is not a definition that a lot people would agree with and not one that you can use in conversation with most of the population without previous warning, which makes it kinda useless. For example, I would never play HnK at a serious competitive level, but I do love playing it casually. If I said it's not a fighting game, I would probably get weird stares until I explained why I said so. Mio Bison posted:Versus games against a thinking human opponent are fundamentally different from single-player games against AI, there are superficial similarities but FGs and beat 'em ups can't be meaningfully compared. I'm not comparing them in the way you are implying. quote:The focus on execution didn't become prevalent until KOF XIII... That's not true, btw. 2k2 has similar execution hurdles as XIII, but 2k2 is significantly harder. Snicker-Snack fucked around with this message at 17:48 on Jul 10, 2012 |
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Jul 10, 2012 17:45
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When looking at a fighting game to get into, I think it's also important to look at the pace of the game. If you're a more methodical, thinky kind of player SF4 has a slower pace and virtually no touch-of-deaths. KOF has a very back-and-forth pressure-based game and is generally considered fairly fast. The Marvel series is notoriously, ridiculously fast so if you can't react quickly (not that that's going to totally break your game, just look at the last year's champion) it may seem overwhelming.
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Jul 10, 2012 17:59
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I've just been getting back into fighting games after not playing since the VF2 days (  ) and SF4 helped me get the feeling back. Now it's on PSN for $30 so it's easy to get, too. KOFXIII is also around $30 on Amazon so you could get both for the price of a new game if money isn't tight. Join me in wanting to do cool poo poo then crying at the Trials. It's still fun without being able to all the HD full-screen combos of death, and pulling off a NEO MAX feels awesome every time. The netcode is the worst of the current gen though. UMVC3 feels like it should be easy, but most people have been playing it nonstop since vanilla so they know their poo poo down cold and will eat you alive. Or, at least, that's my experience  It is fun, but IMO it takes the most amount of grinding and muscle memory training of all the current games to get even decent at. Then you have to figure out a good team, good assists, etc...But you should get it and play in the weekly PSN tournament because we need more scrubs like me.Also get VF5FS because VF5FS is awesome and the best and everyone should play it forever and ever amen. It has a great tutorial, great netcode, and right now everyone is still learning it so you won't be years behind. It's $15 for the base game, and extra if you want all the costume dress-up stuff but you don't need it. EDIT I'd also suggest just sticking to one or two games and trying to get really good at them, at first. I went on a binge and tried playing way too many at once from overexcitement and didn't get good at any of them. Now that I'm putting most of my time into just 2 I'm showing some improvement. Static Rook fucked around with this message at 18:26 on Jul 10, 2012 |
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Jul 10, 2012 18:23
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Snicker-Snack posted:That's not true, btw. 2k2 has similar execution hurdles as XIII, but 2k2 is significantly harder. In 13, you must know hd combos to play at a competitive level. You can get by without it, but its obvious that you're capping your damage. As far as what's practical goes, hd combos aren't harder than max mode combos, but they are way longer, and dropping them takes away more potential damage then maxmode combos did. Most practical maxmode combos that people use do around 50-70%, while 70% is the starting point for 'worth it' hd combos in 13. If you don't believe me, just watch 2k2um match videos. Look at how often maxmode is used, how long the combos last, and how much damage they do when compared to 13. Of course there are exceptions like nameless that can do a lot, but even his takes at minimum 4 bars, while Shen can almost kill you with 2 bars in the corner.
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Jul 10, 2012 18:34
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Snicker-Snack posted:I'm not comparing them in the way you are implying. I'm implying that you shouldn't be comparing them in any way! Ghostpilot posted:[ST] falls short in encouraging an important fundamental: mobility - which is more important in this generation of fighters than they were previously. I have no idea what you're trying to get at here.
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Jul 10, 2012 18:39
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He's saying ST is a game for grandpas, get out of here old fart!
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Jul 10, 2012 18:48
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Mio Bison posted:I have no idea what you're trying to get at here. It's not like what he said was confusing or opaque: ST has nothing in the way of dashing, rolling, hopping, super jumping, air dashing, etc. This isn't inherently bad, and it would make it a totally different game if you added any of these things, but all modern fighters have them in some form, so it's the one thing that starting with ST won't really familiarize you with.
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Jul 10, 2012 18:53
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Dandy J posted:When you compare the execution requirements for the hardest stuff in the game, sure, most 2k2/2k2um max mode combos are harder than kof13 hd combos. The difference is, maxmode combos are a very small part of 2k2 when compared to hd in 13. There are a lot of strong characters that have virtually no practical use, or at least no necessary use of max mode in 2k2, or have very short combos that use command shortcuts, like maybe a couple specials and a super. Fair enough. I guess you're right that hard stuff isn't as required in 2k2 as in XIII, though mechanically, I still have more problems with the former. I didn't really play UM, though. Mio Bison posted:I'm implying that you shouldn't be comparing them in any way! I disagree regarding my point, then. Which was "The fact that a game is casual does not make it effortless or easy to win, even for fighting games".
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Jul 10, 2012 19:02
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Double Bill posted:There's really no correlation between tournament hype and community/playerbase size. MvC3 and KOF have almost no "casual" players, while SF4 has plenty. I wouldn't say that - KoF has put so much effort in its lore and characterization over the years that a lot of people are into it for the plot, but have never really got into the competitive scene. I mean it's a series that spent 3 1/2 games (2003 to XIII) to introduce a character (Ash) and an associated story arc to have him removed from canon in the end. Yet at the same time it has plotless games which are among the most respected in the genre, 98 and 2002. At least I speak for myself in this, I tend to love the fluff in the series, but the online factor and the willingness to see the series succeed and ensure some future for it has encouraged me to put some effort into training, playing online and completing a trial a day and attending national tournaments to help people in the area find competition that doesn't suck completely. I'm not likely to win tournaments or anything, but it's been interesting to gradually find the amount of things the game system allows, and the exprience helps me to appreciate the tournament matches that I do watch that much more.
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Jul 10, 2012 19:20
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I picked up Marvel as my first serious fighting game and I was pretty poo poo at it until I picked up Skullgirls and learned the basic concepts past "push butan, punch mans." Now I'm only kinda poo poo at it.
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Jul 10, 2012 20:02
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This year's EVO was the best ever! 102 entrants in Skullgirls, which surpassed all our expectations I think. KOF and Marvel 3 top 8 were insanely hype, can't wait for next year! E: Also the indie games corner thing was so sick. Keep an eye out for Super Time Force and Bara Bari Ball, those were some sick games. Jmcrofts fucked around with this message at 20:45 on Jul 10, 2012 |
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Jul 10, 2012 20:42
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I missed EVO. I guess SFxT was pretty poo poo then?
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Jul 10, 2012 20:52
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Jmcrofts posted:This year's EVO was the best ever! 102 entrants in Skullgirls, which surpassed all our expectations I think. KOF and Marvel 3 top 8 were insanely hype, can't wait for next year! How sweet is the new stick?! How did Hologram Gootecks do in Skullgirls?
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Jul 10, 2012 20:55
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Liar Lyre posted:I missed EVO. I guess SFxT was pretty poo poo then? sure was, 1st and 2nd just steamrolled the whole brackets. Good time to be Korean though, we won 3 games.
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Jul 10, 2012 20:57
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Brosnan posted:It's not like what he said was confusing or opaque: ST has nothing in the way of dashing, rolling, hopping, super jumping, air dashing, etc. This isn't inherently bad, and it would make it a totally different game if you added any of these things, but all modern fighters have them in some form, so it's the one thing that starting with ST won't really familiarize you with. Can't disagree with any of that. All of those are radically different and not present in most games though, if anything it reinforces the idea that you should start with fundies and then add things on top so you don't expect hops or instant blocking or focus attacks or whatever to be in your toolkit when you branch out.
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Jul 10, 2012 21:04
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Wezlar posted:How sweet is the new stick?! How did Hologram Gootecks do in Skullgirls? I don't have the stick yet, they're mailing them out. They look amazing though: http://shoryuken.com/2012/05/17/custom-skullgirls-arcade-stick-galleries-added-for-toryuken-ultimate-fighting-game-tournament-8/ Mine's gonna have Valentine on it :3 Hologram Gootecks went 3-2 or 4-2 in skullgirls, he got bodied by his lack of Double experience.
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Jul 10, 2012 21:32
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I realize that the Shoryuken forums are the place to go for questions like these, but I didn't see much info on there. Does anybody know if there's a scene for KOF in the Boston area? And if so, how newbie-friendly is it?
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Jul 10, 2012 21:55
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Snicker-Snack posted:Fair enough. I guess you're right that hard stuff isn't as required in 2k2 as in XIII, though mechanically, I still have more problems with the former.
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Jul 10, 2012 22:07
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Fiction posted:I realize that the Shoryuken forums are the place to go for questions like these, but I didn't see much info on there. Does anybody know if there's a scene for KOF in the Boston area? And if so, how newbie-friendly is it? Hey fiction Also looking to get in on this. I know they had a fairly decent tourney in the kenmore area for sf4, mvc3, kof, etc a week before evo. I know rpd weaksauce and gridman from when I was a lad, so I can ask them. Haven't played anything seriously since the soulcal 2 days. Ugh I feel old.
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Jul 10, 2012 23:06
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Dandy J posted:I just used 2k2um as an example since there's more recent match videos of it, thus you'd find the most practiced players. 2k2 was no different. Go and watch the SBO finals and see no maxmode combos used, or even much later and higher level events. A high level match with no hd usage would never happen in kof13. I know, dude. That's why I said you were right. I just mentioned it because I have no idea who nameless is and whether or not he's the only one that can cause a lot of damage, so the example was lost on me.
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Jul 10, 2012 23:09
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Nameless is K999.
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Jul 10, 2012 23:14
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Oh. Copyright issues or something?
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Jul 10, 2012 23:19
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Snicker-Snack posted:Oh. Copyright issues or something? Yeah, if you check their homepage they pretty much admit that they didn't ask Otomo Katsuhiro before taking Tetsuo from Akira and making him a fighting game character, so they couldn't reuse him.
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Jul 11, 2012 00:57
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Bring back Angel, May Lee, and the Agent Team. 
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Jul 11, 2012 01:09
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DaftAero posted:Hey fiction Boston goons, there's a LAN center in JP called Brain Box that has weeklies. I have yet to attend, as I'm out in Somerville, but you can find their info, etc, on Facebook.
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Jul 11, 2012 01:52
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I need a new controller to use for my PC and I've been sorta getting into fighting games lately and I was wondering if there's a gamepad out there with a good-enough d-pad. Should I just go with another 360 controller and see if this develops into something I'd be willing to get a dedicated controller for?
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Jul 11, 2012 01:57
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Dias posted:Injustice has no intention of being a competitive game It absolutely does, even if all the cinematic crap seems to contradict that. The designers are legit, even if Ed Boon doesn't understand anything about anything anymore.
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Jul 11, 2012 02:05
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Fuzzy Pipe Wrench posted:I need a new controller to use for my PC and I've been sorta getting into fighting games lately and I was wondering if there's a gamepad out there with a good-enough d-pad. Should I just go with another 360 controller and see if this develops into something I'd be willing to get a dedicated controller for? The madcatz deals end tonight so if you want a fightpad for $20 I'd look there.
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Jul 11, 2012 02:35
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In terms of "what's a good game for newbies to fighters", I have to say I've been very impressed with Soul Calibur V's Tutorial mode. It has detailed instructions for the entire movelist, it has full and easy puppet control for your opponent so you can practice guards, parries and counters against specific moves, and crucially it shows how the game is reading your inputs, which is something that always vexed me for fighting games in the past. It's a 3D fighter so some of the stuff won't apply to 2D (I still need to wrap my head around the idea of a guard-button-less fighter  ) but for extreme fundamentals like "how do I combo" and "how do I smoothly transition moves and inputs" it has been exactly what I've always wanted. Hell, it's so good and helped me practice fundamentals so quickly that it taught me enough to go online and actually win a few matches (good connection matches no less!) even as a rank newbie.Also character creator  but that's really a SCal thing.
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Jul 11, 2012 03:00
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AnonSpore posted:Yeah, if you check their homepage they pretty much admit that they didn't ask Otomo Katsuhiro before taking Tetsuo from Akira and making him a fighting game character, so they couldn't reuse him. PunkBoy posted:Bring back Angel, May Lee, and the Agent Team. I touched upon this in the KOF thread a long time back, but I wouldn't count on seeing Angel, K9999 and May Lee again. Kuai posted:K9999 and Angel will never be in another KoF game again will they? I recalled SNK being disquieted by Eolith's Akira homage (though Eolith even went as far as to get the original voice actor of Tetsuo to voice K9999): inspiration was one thing, but K9999 went way beyond that. This was along with the liberties they took with the storyline, cast and engine with 2001. After Eolith's contract with the series was up (they produced 2001 and 2002) SNK buried K9999 and virtually everything having to do with Eolith. This was somewhat problematic as 2002 was the most popular game of the series behind 98 (until XIII came along), hence 2k2 UM. Angel's an unfortunately casualty of that since canonically she was his girlfriend. Shame, really; she was a fun and unique character. They tried creating a character with a similar mechanic in XI (Momoko), but both the design and her playstyle just didn't go over at all (I believe she was far and away the worst in XI as well, if memory serves). But yeah, I wouldn't count on seeing any of the Eolith-era characters again. Now as for the Agents Team (Vanessa, Ramon and Seth), we could very well see Vanessa and Ramon teamed with Blue Mary in the next installment of the series (there was a cutscene with them along with Heidern), but for now it's just speculation. I'd be ecstatic for any of them, but if we were to get all of them...  .
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Jul 11, 2012 03:03
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Fuzzy Pipe Wrench posted:I need a new controller to use for my PC and I've been sorta getting into fighting games lately and I was wondering if there's a gamepad out there with a good-enough d-pad. Should I just go with another 360 controller and see if this develops into something I'd be willing to get a dedicated controller for? Sega Saturn USB controllers have the best D-PAD in my opinion, but you have to wait for international shipping (Mine cost about 16 bucks after international shipping)
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Jul 11, 2012 03:07
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I hate to bust in and rant like this, but I've had it with trying to get my MadCatz TE Rnd 2 fight stick to work with my Mac. I've done everything I can think of, everything that's out there on the net and everything that's been suggested on SRK Tech Talk that I can find and absolutely nothing works. Does anyone have any idea what the hell might be the problem? What dark ritual do I have to perform to get this goddamn thing to operate? Do I have to make some kind of mf'ing sacrifice to MarkMan before this thing will even be detected and run like a joystick? I'm so sick of using some decade old USB Logitech gamepad to play SFAlpha2 and Vampire Savior.
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Jul 11, 2012 03:33
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Fiction posted:I realize that the Shoryuken forums are the place to go for questions like these, but I didn't see much info on there. Does anybody know if there's a scene for KOF in the Boston area? And if so, how newbie-friendly is it? I haven't seen a Boston-specific thread at DreamCancel, but that seems to be the gathering spot for the US KoF scene, might be worth a look: http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?board=65.0 As for the K9999 thing and the other characters, while K9999 is never coming back, Angel and May Lee still appear in SNKP's mobile games in Japan like the Days of Memories stuff - even if Eolith was the developer for 2001 and 2002, SNK was still the publisher and gets to keep the rights over the characters - they just have a really really large cast to pick from, and NESTS-era stuff is tricky to include in other plots of the main series after that. Even with the bit about Angel and K9999 being together, the Great ash Retcon easily get to replace K9999 with Nameless canonically if SNKP deems so, and they can just tweak the type of relatioship (even if 2002UM is supposed to be a dream match game, they bothered to give him a plot about being a NESTS experiment with an obsession about a girl in similar circumstances that didn't quite survive the whole thing, so I don't see him getting too attached to a different girl) to keep her around. Momoko didn't feel that similar to Angel, for the time I spent using either, so I don't think that's the issue either. Almost every thread online where people mention adding characters to the KoF XIII casts people mention some more famous characters like Yamazaki and Geese, or more recent additions like Gato and Oswald, so some of those might take precedence over someone like May Lee.
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Jul 11, 2012 03:39
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AndyElusive posted:I hate to bust in and rant like this, but I've had it with trying to get my MadCatz TE Rnd 2 fight stick to work with my Mac. I've done everything I can think of, everything that's out there on the net and everything that's been suggested on SRK Tech Talk that I can find and absolutely nothing works. Install (You should mention which console your TE is for, at least in windows that makes a difference.)
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Jul 11, 2012 04:03
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Jeffrey posted:Install If I could install Windows, I would in a heart beat. 360 stick. What I wouldn't do for a PC right about now.
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Jul 11, 2012 04:17
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Fiction posted:I realize that the Shoryuken forums are the place to go for questions like these, but I didn't see much info on there. Does anybody know if there's a scene for KOF in the Boston area? And if so, how newbie-friendly is it? Brain Box at 383 Centre St in JP. I go there Wednesdays and Fridays to play Marvel, and I just picked up KOF. Right now everyone there mostly plays Marvel and KOF so you'll fit right in. I think when I stopped by on Friday there was an old KOF cabinet being worked on. As for how newbie friendly it is, I was playing Skullgirls and then we got bored with it, and Amish Mike threw in KOF and we played while he explained the concepts and what made it different from other fighters. I only started in the FGC like two months ago and everyone's pretty welcoming. The FGC isn't that big so you're going to see the same people a lot and it's always awesome to see a new face. There's also Game Underground in Framingham and Ultimate Gaming Spot in Dedham, but from what I understand GU has more AE players and UGS is a lot of Virtua Fighter and Tekken. Go check em all out. xan! fucked around with this message at 05:10 on Jul 11, 2012 |
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Jul 11, 2012 05:08
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SpaceDrake posted:In terms of "what's a good game for newbies to fighters", I have to say I've been very impressed with Soul Calibur V's Tutorial mode. It has detailed instructions for the entire movelist, it has full and easy puppet control for your opponent so you can practice guards, parries and counters against specific moves, and crucially it shows how the game is reading your inputs, which is something that always vexed me for fighting games in the past. Agreeing with this. If you don't have a preference for 3d/2d, I find SC is the most accessible fighting game to newbies. It's easy to digest the action, and not completely impossible to beat someone better than you if you're just starting out. Not a whole lot that's difficult execution-wise, either. And playing dress-up is a lot of fun. Seeing people's creations keeps the game a lot more interesting. I hear the game is kind of dead on PS3, though. I've never had much trouble finding matches on 360, and have played it pretty much weekly since its launch.
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Jul 11, 2012 05:34
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It's cute how everyone is talking like KOF XIV is an inevitability. With their troubled (far and even more recent) past, it's a miracle they got to XII, much less XIII. Last I heard they were still in dire straits, what with them having to work a skeleton crew obscene hours to get the home version of XIII out the door and XIII Climax's limited arcade release, but I guess if nothing else, this past Evo has shown there's still life in the series so as long as SNK still's around, they'll keep trying. As nice as it would be to go out like this, it would be pretty sad.
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Jul 11, 2012 05:44
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SNK's always had trouble, but they're stone cold DEDICATED to making awesome games. You're not gonna find lots of companies who love doing what they do as much as them, and I'm positive that, even if KoFXIII didn't light up the sales charts (being an Atlus-published game, I highly suspect it didn't unfortunately), the extra attention it's attracting now might set the stage for KoFXIV to do remarkably well. It remains to be seen if they'll find the money to actually make it happen, but if they do I think they'll be set for a while.
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Jul 11, 2012 05:51
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leather fedora posted:It's cute how everyone is talking like KOF XIV is an inevitability. With their troubled (far and even more recent) past, it's a miracle they got to XII, much less XIII. Last I heard they were still in dire straits, what with them having to work a skeleton crew obscene hours to get the home version of XIII out the door and XIII Climax's limited arcade release, but I guess if nothing else, this past Evo has shown there's still life in the series so as long as SNK still's around, they'll keep trying. As nice as it would be to go out like this, it would be pretty sad. While you arent wrong, I wouldnt be surprised if KOFs amazingly hype showing this weekend gave the game a huge boost in sales. Im certainly more optimistic about KOF14 now than I was last week.
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