Middle East Thread of Despair: More Broken Than Syria

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mila kunis: Jun 10, 2011

Libyan government officials claiming that these were organized by 'cells of the former government'. Seems weird, I thought Gaddafi was secular and not particularly linked with religious extremists?

# ? Sep 12, 2012 12:58

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# ? Apr 28, 2024 20:01

Plavski: Feb 1, 2006; I could be a revolutionary

FuriousxGeorge posted:

CNN on TV is suggesting two separate incidents. One person dead at the consulate and later the ambassador and three staff killed when trying to leave the consulate in a vehicle. Very confusing right now.

*And they just confirmed on air Sean Smith as one of the dead.

The Guardian is claiming that Sean died in the first attack on the consulate while the Ambassador and his bodyguards died while arriving to inspect the damage in the morning.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/middle-east-live/2012/sep/12/libya-egypt-attacks-muhammad-film-live

# ? Sep 12, 2012 12:59

sean10mm: Jun 29, 2005; It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, MAD-2R World

Mans posted:

Is this guy banned? I hope so.

Nope!

http://forums.somethingawful.com/member.php?action=getinfo&userid=27201

# ? Sep 12, 2012 13:00

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

quote:

Statement on the Death of American Personnel in Benghazi, Libya

It is with profound sadness that I share the news of the death of four American personnel in Benghazi, Libya yesterday. Among them were United States Ambassador to Libya Chris Stevens and Foreign Service Information Management Officer, Sean Smith. We are still making next of kin notifications for the other two individuals. Our hearts go out to all their families and colleagues.

A 21 year veteran of the Foreign Service, Ambassador Stevens died last night from injuries he sustained in the attack on our office in Benghazi.

I had the privilege of swearing in Chris for his post in Libya only a few months ago. He spoke eloquently about his passion for service, for diplomacy and for the Libyan people. This assignment was only the latest in his more than two decades of dedication to advancing closer ties with the people of the Middle East and North Africa which began as a Peace Corps Volunteer in Morocco. As the conflict in Libya unfolded, Chris was one of the first Americans on the ground in Benghazi. He risked his own life to lend the Libyan people a helping hand to build the foundation for a new, free nation. He spent every day since helping to finish the work that he started. Chris was committed to advancing America�s values and interests, even when that meant putting himself in danger.

Sean Smith was a husband and a father of two, who joined the Department ten years ago. Like Chris, Sean was one of our best. Prior to arriving in Benghazi, he served in Baghdad, Pretoria, Montreal, and most recently The Hague.

All the Americans we lost in yesterday�s attacks made the ultimate sacrifice. We condemn this vicious and violent attack that took their lives, which they had committed to helping the Libyan people reach for a better future.

America�s diplomats and development experts stand on the front lines every day for our country. We are honored by the service of each and every one of them.

# ? Sep 12, 2012 13:01

Adrastus: Apr 1, 2012; by toby

So what's going to happen next? I'm correct in assuming that this is a Fairly Big Deal, right? How is the U.S. going to respond to this?

And also, what are the reactions from Libyans?

# ? Sep 12, 2012 13:01

Nuclearmonkee: Jun 10, 2009

Holy gently caress, I saw the thread title and expected stupid irony, not this :smith:

.

RIP Vilerat. gently caress extremists.

# ? Sep 12, 2012 13:02

greatn: Nov 15, 2006; by Lowtax

I have two friends who are consulates in Pakistan but in the states right now for a few more days. I really really hope they don't have to go back.

# ? Sep 12, 2012 13:04

Crusader: Apr 11, 2002

Holy poo poo, I decided to check the thread for commentary on the attack and only just found out about Vilerat. RIP

# ? Sep 12, 2012 13:04

ReindeerF: Apr 20, 2002; Rubber Dinghy Rapids Bro

That's McCaine. He's basically a nice and very intelligent guy, but still a a little young and precocious to have learned how to forgive, I think. I know exactly what he's talking about there and it was an unfortunate discussion from a time when Vilerat still had some pretty half-informed political opinions and made a pretty stupid argument (I think even I called him on it) - which is something anyone who's lived long enough to discover how stupid they used to be can relate to. It's in poor taste and McCaine really should think twice before acting like that as I'm sure he knows the Vilerat of today wouldn't have said or thought the same thing, but it's not reflective of who McCaine really is deep in his Nazi porn loving little rainbow heart.

Vile was the kind of guy who, had the roles been reversed, had lived long enough that he wouldn't have said something equally callous about McCaine had McCaine died unfortunately. Someday McCaine will be that kind of guy too.

# ? Sep 12, 2012 13:05

Total Confusion: Oct 9, 2004

FuriousxGeorge posted:

CNN on TV is suggesting two separate incidents. One person dead at the consulate and later the ambassador and three staff killed when trying to leave the consulate in a vehicle. Very confusing right now.

*And they just confirmed on air Sean Smith as one of the dead.

Yeah, before the ambassador was confirmed dead, they were saying that one person had died from smoke inhalation (which would fit with Vilerat's situation), but I've just read an Al-Jazeera report that says the ambassador died from smoke inhalation, which is not how I would imagine a person attacked with an RPG in a car would die. Also from reading the same article, apparently the Libyan deputy interior minister said this about the event:

"They [the US] are to blame simply for not withdrawing their personnel from the premises, despite the fact that there was a similar incident when [al-Qaeda second-in-command and Libyan citizen] Abu Yahya al-Libi was killed. It was necessary that they take precautions. It was their fault that they did not take the necessary precautions"

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/09/20129112108737726.html

# ? Sep 12, 2012 13:06

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

Adrastus posted:

So what's going to happen next? I'm correct in assuming that this is a Fairly Big Deal, right? How is the U.S. going to respond to this?

And also, what are the reactions from Libyans?

From what I've seen it's revulsion at the act and anger at the government for failing to deal with the Salafist issue earlier.

# ? Sep 12, 2012 13:08

BunnyBunny: Aug 17, 2005; Picking up the field mice...

Mans posted:

Is this guy banned? I hope so.

It would only be fair. McCaine banned a lot of good posters for no reason over petty things when he was mod.

# ? Sep 12, 2012 13:09

Decius: Oct 14, 2005; Ramrod XTreme

Gold and a Pager posted:

"They [the US] are to blame simply for not withdrawing their personnel from the premises, despite the fact that there was a similar incident when [al-Qaeda second-in-command and Libyan citizen] Abu Yahya al-Libi was killed. It was necessary that they take precautions. It was their fault that they did not take the necessary precautions"

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/09/20129112108737726.html

Blaming the victims. Classy move.

# ? Sep 12, 2012 13:09

powers: Jul 26, 2005; The Maller is an Amarrian frigate, used by hotdroppers.

~SMcD

http://www.state.gov/secretary/rm/2012/09/197630.htm

quote:

It is with profound sadness that I share the news of the death of four American personnel in Benghazi, Libya yesterday. Among them were United States Ambassador to Libya Chris Stevens and Foreign Service Information Management Officer, Sean Smith. We are still making next of kin notifications for the other two individuals. Our hearts go out to all their families and colleagues.

A 21 year veteran of the Foreign Service, Ambassador Stevens died last night from injuries he sustained in the attack on our office in Benghazi.

I had the privilege of swearing in Chris for his post in Libya only a few months ago. He spoke eloquently about his passion for service, for diplomacy and for the Libyan people. This assignment was only the latest in his more than two decades of dedication to advancing closer ties with the people of the Middle East and North Africa which began as a Peace Corps Volunteer in Morocco. As the conflict in Libya unfolded, Chris was one of the first Americans on the ground in Benghazi. He risked his own life to lend the Libyan people a helping hand to build the foundation for a new, free nation. He spent every day since helping to finish the work that he started. Chris was committed to advancing America�s values and interests, even when that meant putting himself in danger.

Sean Smith was a husband and a father of two, who joined the Department ten years ago. Like Chris, Sean was one of our best. Prior to arriving in Benghazi, he served in Baghdad, Pretoria, Montreal, and most recently The Hague.

All the Americans we lost in yesterday�s attacks made the ultimate sacrifice. We condemn this vicious and violent attack that took their lives, which they had committed to helping the Libyan people reach for a better future.

America�s diplomats and development experts stand on the front lines every day for our country. We are honored by the service of each and every one of them.

# ? Sep 12, 2012 13:10

sean10mm: Jun 29, 2005; It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, MAD-2R World

BunnyBunny posted:

It would only be fair. McCaine banned a lot of good posters for no reason over petty things when he was mod.

He was always an unbearable loving rear end in a top hat. Didn't have him pegged for a "dancing on the grave of a murder victim" level loving rear end in a top hat though.

# ? Sep 12, 2012 13:13

iyaayas01: Feb 19, 2010; Perry'd

Gold and a Pager posted:

Yeah, before the ambassador was confirmed dead, they were saying that one person had died from smoke inhalation (which would fit with Vilerat's situation), but I've just read an Al-Jazeera report that says the ambassador died from smoke inhalation, which is not how I would imagine a person attacked with an RPG in a car would die. Also from reading the same article, apparently the Libyan deputy interior minister said this about the event:

"They [the US] are to blame simply for not withdrawing their personnel from the premises, despite the fact that there was a similar incident when [al-Qaeda second-in-command and Libyan citizen] Abu Yahya al-Libi was killed. It was necessary that they take precautions. It was their fault that they did not take the necessary precautions"

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/09/20129112108737726.html

I think the minister needs to reread the Vienna Convention.

# ? Sep 12, 2012 13:13

Petey: Nov 26, 2005; For who knows what is good for a person in life, during the few and meaningless days they pass through like a shadow? Who can tell them what will happen under the sun after they are gone?

Nuclearmonkee posted:

Holy gently caress, I saw the thread title and expected stupid irony, not this .

RIP Vilerat. gently caress extremists.

Me too. Oh my god.

# ? Sep 12, 2012 13:15

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

Just saw this from the assholes who murdered Vile Rat

quote:

#BREAKING: Ansar Alsharia says in a press conference that what happened in #Benghazi attack was Libyan people's response for insulting Islam

# ? Sep 12, 2012 13:22

powers: Jul 26, 2005; The Maller is an Amarrian frigate, used by hotdroppers.

~SMcD

I would tell them to go kill themselves, but I don't want more decent people dying in the fallout.

# ? Sep 12, 2012 13:23

CeeJee: Dec 4, 2001; Oven Wrangler

Decius posted:

Blaming the victims. Classy move.

Well to be fair a lot of people here consider the maker of the movie just as guilty as the actual killers.

# ? Sep 12, 2012 13:24

Pegged Lamb: Nov 5, 2007; Can't post for 3 years!

Is it really necessary to have an embassy going immediately after a revolution?

# ? Sep 12, 2012 13:25

FuriousxGeorge: Aug 8, 2007; We've been the best team all year.

They're just finding out.

I wonder what the Muslim folks angry enough at Jones to kill random Americans would say about this.

Free speech really is hard to comprehend I guess.

# ? Sep 12, 2012 13:26

Arzy: Apr 17, 2003; You are the Dragonborn, Ride forth to your Destiny

Our President better have a pretty loving good response to this. This is outrageous.

# ? Sep 12, 2012 13:28

Lamuella: Jun 26, 2003; It's like goldy or bronzy, but made of iron.

Livebladder posted:

Is it really necessary to have an embassy going immediately after a revolution?

Isn't maintaining diplomatic communication at its most important in the early days of a government?

# ? Sep 12, 2012 13:28

Un-l337-Pork: Sep 9, 2001; Oooh yeah...

I know that they are just ignorant, nutjobs who cling to their religion because it's their only source of hope, but I really don't like that they have killed Americans.

It's a tough situation, because I do understand the point of view of the attackers. Not sure what you can do about it, though. I mean, sure, you can just say "lol bomb them to hell!", but that's really just treating the symptoms (religious zealots) and not the cause.

They don't understand freedom of speech because they don't have it themselves. They don't understand why the American government allows people to make a film that makes fun of Mohammed. What they do not understand is that we make fun of all religions -- they are not special. Thus, they think that all Americans (or, at least, those that govern America) must agree with the views of the filmmaker.

I don't know how you can educate them. I don't think you can, to be honest. This is the sort of cultural change that takes generations to accomplish.

Un-l337-Pork fucked around with this message at 13:33 on Sep 12, 2012

# ? Sep 12, 2012 13:29

Mirthless: Mar 27, 2011; by the sex ghost

CeeJee posted:

Well to be fair a lot of people here consider the maker of the movie just as guilty as the actual killers.

Well, he's a man who lives in California despite considering himself 'Israeli' who made a hatespeech movie about Islam, and both he and his backer (a similairly intolerant baptist minister jackass) are peppering their half-assed apologies with defiant proclamations that Islam is a religion of hate and their movie was The Truth. Excuse me if I think they're implicit.

# ? Sep 12, 2012 13:30

The Macaroni: Dec 20, 2002; ...it does nothing.

Arzy posted:

Our President better have a pretty loving good response to this. This is outrageous.

What kind of response would meet your expectations?

# ? Sep 12, 2012 13:31

Filboid Studge: Oct 1, 2010; And while they debated the matter among themselves, Conradin made himself another piece of toast.

RIP, Vilerat. drat shame.

On the 'what the everliving gently caress, McCaine' front, wasn't it the permabanned T-Paine who made the "laughable Xhosa girl" post, anyway?

# ? Sep 12, 2012 13:31

Matoi Ryuko: Jan 6, 2004

The Macaroni posted:

What kind of response would meet your expectations?

Resurrection.

# ? Sep 12, 2012 13:32

ReindeerF: Apr 20, 2002; Rubber Dinghy Rapids Bro

It was a consulate. Not a huge deal, but people keep calling it an embassy and they're pretty different things in most cases. Generally speaking, if you're talking about a city other than the capital then we don't have an embassy there, we have a consulate there (of course there are exceptions, and Vile actually worked in one).

# ? Sep 12, 2012 13:32

iyaayas01: Feb 19, 2010; Perry'd

Livebladder posted:

Is it really necessary to have an embassy going immediately after a revolution?

Short answer: yes.

Slightly longer answer: diplomatic recognition and reopening the mission is an extremely important way to engage with the nascent government.

As for a response...what do you propose the U.S. does? I mean, it feels good and all to get all vengeful and pissed off and whatever but beyond words and using this as an opportunity to engage with the Libyan government about their Salafi issue, I don't really see what could realistically be done.

# ? Sep 12, 2012 13:33

Fabricated: Apr 9, 2007; Living the Dream

Arzy posted:

Our President better have a pretty loving good response to this. This is outrageous.

Watch Obama start a loving war

# ? Sep 12, 2012 13:34

Silverback: Sep 19, 2004; FYAD shit in GBS

Un-l337-Pork posted:

I know that they are just ignorant, nutjobs who cling to their religion because it's their only source of hope, but I really don't like that they have killed Americans.

It's not their only source of hope, it's their only source of power. Power over their women. Power over the weak. Power over anyone who can't or will not fight against them. These aren't people of religion, these are armed thugs.

# ? Sep 12, 2012 13:36

OMG JC a Bomb!: Jul 13, 2004; We are the Invisible Spatula. We are the Grilluminati. We eat before and after dinner. We eat forever. And eventually... eventually we will lead them into the dining room.

FuriousxGeorge posted:

I wonder what the Muslim folks angry enough at Jones to kill random Americans would say about this.

Free speech really is hard to comprehend I guess.

He's trying wwwwaayyy too hard.

# ? Sep 12, 2012 13:37

tonelok: Sep 29, 2001; Hanukkah came early this year.

As soon as I saw it was Sean Smith, I hoped it wasn't VR. I really liked him. gently caress.

# ? Sep 12, 2012 13:39

Arzy: Apr 17, 2003; You are the Dragonborn, Ride forth to your Destiny

iyaayas01 posted:

Short answer: yes.

Slightly longer answer: diplomatic recognition and reopening the mission is an extremely important way to engage with the nascent government.

As for a response...what do you propose the U.S. does? I mean, it feels good and all to get all vengeful and pissed off and whatever but beyond words and using this as an opportunity to engage with the Libyan government about their Salafi issue, I don't really see what could realistically be done.

So just suck it up huh? Allow US ambassadors to be killed whenever and wherever?

We look weak, and the world will see it. Pathetic. Embarassing.

# ? Sep 12, 2012 13:41

ReV VAdAUL: Oct 3, 2004; I'm WILD about
WILDMAN

Can we not turn vilerat's tragic death into an excuse to purge people we don't like from the forums? Regardless of what McCain's said on Twitter I doubt vilerat's would want his death to be used as an excuse to stifle free speech.

Let's not make our 9/11 tragedy into a carbon copy of the first one, complete with pointless lashing out just to satisfy vengeance and anger.

# ? Sep 12, 2012 13:42

Mans: Sep 14, 2011; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Aren't the Wahabists the extremists? These guys are Salafists right? What's the difference?

# ? Sep 12, 2012 13:42

Arzy: Apr 17, 2003; You are the Dragonborn, Ride forth to your Destiny

"Thank you America, for helping us rid ourselves of Qaddafi and 4 decades of oppression. Here, have a rocket propelled grenade."

# ? Sep 12, 2012 13:42

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# ? Apr 28, 2024 20:01

Decius: Oct 14, 2005; Ramrod XTreme

Fabricated posted:

Watch Obama start a loving war

There is no government behind those extremists which could be targeted, so it will just be drone strikes and maybe some raids if it comes down to it, the usual.

# ? Sep 12, 2012 13:43

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Middle East Thread of Despair: More Broken Than Syria

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