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Guardian LiveBlog: quote:Sudan: Protestors break into German embassy, pull down emblem and raise Islamic flag, smash windows, start fires (Reuters quoting witnesses) Spillover effects...
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Sep 14, 2012 13:46
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I think I read earlier Germany had closed it's embassy in several countries earlier today. They've also burnt down a KFC in Tripoli, Lebanon.
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Sep 14, 2012 13:48
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Brown Moses posted:I think I read earlier Germany had closed it's embassy in several countries earlier today. Nooo, not the delicious fried chicken! 
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Sep 14, 2012 13:50
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The Real Foogla posted:Protesters try to storm German, British embassies in Sudan German media are now reporting that the German embassy has been stormed and set on fire. No word on the British embassy. ^^^^ oh OK apparently it's up next
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Sep 14, 2012 13:51
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steinrokkan posted:Reducing the issue to "they are thugs, end of discussion" is dangerous and idiotic. No, legitimizing bunch of extremist thugs like they are an actual popular social movement is dangerous and idiotic.
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Sep 14, 2012 13:52
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Sep 14, 2012 13:59
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Warcabbit posted:http://freethoughtblogs.com/rodda/2012/09/13/mrff-advisory-board-member-glen-doherty-among-those-killed-in-libya-attack/ Man. This sucks. The ambassador seemed like an alright guy too. What's the deal with German embassy getting burned? They didn't do anything.
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Sep 14, 2012 14:00
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Adrastus posted:Man. This sucks. The ambassador seemed like an alright guy too. I think it's got to the point that it's any thing vaguely western is a target.
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Sep 14, 2012 14:03
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They've found our achilles heel! It was our KFC command and control centers all along. We are doomed 
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Sep 14, 2012 14:04
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Considering how this film was basically carefully engineered to create this effect, I certainly hope something happens to the producer. Is he a citizen or an immigrant? Cause I wouldn't mind seeing him extradited. But we shouldn't get completely distracted. How's Syria?
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Sep 14, 2012 14:11
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Jarmak posted:No, legitimizing bunch of extremist thugs like they are an actual popular social movement is dangerous and idiotic. Reducing extremist thugs to mindless drones are idiotic since extremism does not materialize out of thin air and infest the minds of random helpless victims, it takes indoctrination and experience to shape a mind like that, and those are very much influenced by factors like culture, economy and foreign policy.
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Sep 14, 2012 14:13
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Could the petrol-tanker and the airstrike, Germanys supply of submarines to Israel and its involvement in Afghanistan have had anything to do with motivating people to attack the German embassy?
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Sep 14, 2012 14:27
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Zudgemud posted:Reducing extremist thugs to mindless drones are idiotic since extremism does not materialize out of thin air and infest the minds of random helpless victims, it takes indoctrination and experience to shape a mind like that, and those are very much influenced by factors like culture, economy and foreign policy. People who think the way to settle differences is by wanton violence and killing are not welcome in any civilized society, anywhere. Whatever their grievances, their behavior is unacceptable. Period.
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Sep 14, 2012 14:27
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Deteriorata posted:People who think the way to settle differences is by wanton violence and killing are not welcome in any civilized society, anywhere. Whatever their grievances, their behavior is unacceptable. Period.
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Sep 14, 2012 14:39
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Deteriorata posted:People who think the way to settle differences is by wanton violence and killing are not welcome in any civilized society, anywhere. Whatever their grievances, their behavior is unacceptable. Period. Not that I disagree, but it seems like a majority of people even in civilized society are huge fans of wanton violence and killing. Where will they all go?
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Sep 14, 2012 14:41
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Jippa posted:I think it's got to the point that it's any thing vaguely western is a target.
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Sep 14, 2012 14:52
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Adrastus posted:What's the deal with German embassy getting burned? They didn't do anything. Neither did the Americans at the consulate in Libya.
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Sep 14, 2012 14:52
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Clipperton posted:Not that I disagree, but it seems like a majority of people even in civilized society are huge fans of wanton violence and killing. Where will they all go? London riots in august 2011 are a good example.
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Sep 14, 2012 14:56
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Deteriorata posted:People who think the way to settle differences is by wanton violence and killing are not welcome in any civilized society, anywhere. Whatever their grievances, their behavior is unacceptable. Period. When the "differences" in question are things like, "I don't think my children should have died because of your drone attack" I think it's a little less black and white.
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Sep 14, 2012 15:07
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Nuclearmonkee posted:They've found our achilles heel! It was our KFC command and control centers all along. We are doomed Well it is organized and run by a shadowy figure called "The Colonel"...
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Sep 14, 2012 15:12
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Adrastus posted:Man. This sucks. The ambassador seemed like an alright guy too. I'd like to see a bunch of Israelis watch a double bill of Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS and Schindlers List, then storm and burn the German Embassy in Tel Aviv. I watched the trailer for "Innocence"... It looks incredibly dumb, and poorly made. That said all the protesters are incredibly dumb themselves and also anyone saying the lovely filmmaker is at fault for the violence is also a dumb crumb-bum.
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Sep 14, 2012 15:12
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I just have a hard time understanding the violent outburst/ protests over the film in general. I mean is some other force motivating people into outrage? Are people that upset about the film, that's 14 minutes long. It makes me think that now when people want to just piss off and cause riots they'll just make a film about Muhammed. Like a gay porno. I just have a really hard time wrapping my head around the protests in general. If anything you can bet Terry Jones is going to be like " Hmmmmmm, this worked!!!" and make more. What if he does? More protests?
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Sep 14, 2012 15:14
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Warcabbit posted:Considering how this film was basically carefully engineered to create this effect, I certainly hope something happens to the producer. Is he a citizen or an immigrant? Cause I wouldn't mind seeing him extradited. I really hope this was a fake post at this point of the thread.
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Sep 14, 2012 15:14
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Hollis posted:I just have a hard time understanding the violent outburst/ protests over the film in general. I mean is some other force motivating people into outrage? Are people that upset about the film, that's 14 minutes long. I'm also unclear on how a video that was produced in America, that was unknown to 99.9% of America, is sparking such violent actions across the world. How did these guys over in Libya,Egypt,etc have access and knowledge to look for something that 99.9% of America didn't even know existed?
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Sep 14, 2012 15:18
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Hollis posted:I just have a hard time understanding the violent outburst/ protests over the film in general. I mean is some other force motivating people into outrage? Are people that upset about the film, that's 14 minutes long. To be fair riots have happened over dumb poo poo in the west too. There have been riots over football games and concerts being canceled.
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Sep 14, 2012 15:19
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Mitt Romney posted:I'm also unclear on how a video that was produced in America, that was unknown to 99.9% of America, is sparking such violent actions across the world. I believe it was broadcast on a middle eastern TV network on 9/9. Plus, the news over the initial protests probably got it on the radar of everyone who didn't know about it before.
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Sep 14, 2012 15:20
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Hollis posted:I just have a hard time understanding the violent outburst/ protests over the film in general. I mean is some other force motivating people into outrage? Are people that upset about the film, that's 14 minutes long. Yes, there most likely is organization behind it. But trying to understand that would be wrong. Because they're thugs. So understanding what they do would be... bad? Would be catering to them? I don't know. It's a weird idea that embracing ignorance is noble.
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Sep 14, 2012 15:21
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Was there any conceivable 'reason' for the burning of the German embassy? Or was the thought process just "the US is in the west, Germany is in the west too"
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Sep 14, 2012 15:22
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It's the poke the bear analogy basically, this caused riots. Now that people know this specific concept and video caused riots, nothings going to prevent people who are hard line anti - muslim from making more. I can literally just see it now. Billboards across America and world with a smiling face saying " This is the face of Islam" and it's a depiction of Muhammed. I mean the next step is someone making it even more offensive. It just seems childish? There has to be some other motivating factor here, it can't just be about a 14 minute video, right? I mean who is motivating these people to go out and protest to begin with that just seems crazy to think people sat around and went " loving movie pictures of Muhammad" -> Going outside in my own predominantly muslim country to protest. Ugh, maybe it's because I am atheist and just can't wrap my brain around this concept fundamentally. Hollismason fucked around with this message at 15:25 on Sep 14, 2012 |
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Sep 14, 2012 15:23
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Kafka Esq. posted:I agree, and I think you'll find most posters here will agree - but if the idea is to end further violence and the proselytization of these beliefs, you have to understand and accept their foundation. No: you need to understand what their grievances are and their motivations, but that doesn't mean you have to accept them. That's what's usually lost when discussing understanding why people do things: understanding and explaining isn't the same as justifying.
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Sep 14, 2012 15:23
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Jarmak posted:You are the stereotype that Fox News et al use to scare mainstream Americans away from "liberal" policies and politicians. And you're the reason the rest of the world thinks Americans are a group of jingoistic hypocrites. Any random post in this forum or news story will tell you about American drone and military strikes inflicting 'collateral damage' on innocent people or propping up repressive regimes friendly to our politics. If VileRat was killed walking around New York at night that would be an attack by 'random thugs'. But he obviously wasn't or his death wouldn't be the massive news story it is. I love America, and I hated my East Coast liberal classmates blaming it for 9/11 on the day of the attacks. But refusing to consider any motivations for protest because VileRat was one of ours makes you look idiotic. The Asian Oprah posted:Richard Engel was apparently doing interviews with some protesters? He said folks would just refuse to acknowledge the United States hadn't been complicit in the film's production, saying that these folks are familiar with a censorship environment where, if the government doesn't like your film then your film doesn't ever get made. I live under a 'censorship regime' where films are at least reviewed before being allowed to be released. Turns out that absolute American-style free speech is mostly an American thing. If an Australian released a racist YouTube clip that lead to riots and it wasn't pulled or investigated by the government heads would roll. So don't act like they're crazy for thinking this. Count Chocula fucked around with this message at 15:37 on Sep 14, 2012 |
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Sep 14, 2012 15:23
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Narciss posted:Was there any conceivable 'reason' for the burning of the German embassy? Or was the thought process just "the US is in the west, Germany is in the west too" I'm guessing it's the equivalent of that white power guy who shot up the sikh temple.
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Sep 14, 2012 15:25
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Jippa posted:I'm guessing it's the equivalent of that white power guy who shot up the sikh temple. Except no one was talking about the root causes of his act, he was just evil.
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Sep 14, 2012 15:26
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What's the ultimate goal here of the protests? I mean even if you made a factual and I am not saying you implied anything about The Prophet, just a factual accounting of his life. People would get really pissed off. It just seems this is not only based around the implications of him but the fact they depicted him. From what I understand it's a big NO NO , on depicting the Prophet in any works at all. I mean what are the goal of the protests to show outrage, so now it's this weird Pavlovian dog style routine. Create Offensive Video of the Prophet Release to media in Middle East Riots ?????? I mean this just tells Terry Jones who is probably cackling with glee that he instigated this, to produce more. Burn the Koran! That's a Riot, depict the Prophet as a pedophile, that's a riot. It's just going to get worse. Hollismason fucked around with this message at 15:30 on Sep 14, 2012 |
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Sep 14, 2012 15:27
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CeeJee posted:Except no one was talking about the root causes of his act, he was just evil. Actually, the root causes of that are just as interesting and important. And, yes, people ARE talking about it.
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Sep 14, 2012 15:28
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evilweasel posted:No: you need to understand what their grievances are and their motivations, but that doesn't mean you have to accept them. That's what's usually lost when discussing understanding why people do things: understanding and explaining isn't the same as justifying. I think Kafka Esq meant accept as in accept that that is why they are acting rather than accept as in accept their views as correct.
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Sep 14, 2012 15:29
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Hollis posted:What's the ultimate goal here of the protests? I mean even if you made a factual and I am not saying you implied anything about The Prophet, just a factual accounting of his life. People would get really pissed off. I can't remember how it breaks down, but yes, depicting the dude is a no-no for many muslims. (Look up Iconodules and Iconoclasts for the Christian version).
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Sep 14, 2012 15:31
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CeeJee posted:Except no one was talking about the root causes of his act, he was just evil. What I mean is it's the whole "us" and "them" thing, like dividing the world up into two teams or what ever.
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Sep 14, 2012 15:31
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evilweasel posted:I believe it was broadcast on a middle eastern TV network on 9/9. Plus, the news over the initial protests probably got it on the radar of everyone who didn't know about it before. Does anyone know how the film got put on the Egyptian TV? Who made the decision and so on? I hesitate to call conspiracy, but I think that it might be interest to know the context of how it was aired.
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Sep 14, 2012 15:32
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HMDK posted:I can't remember how it breaks down, but yes, depicting the dude is a no-no for many muslims. (Look up Iconodules and Iconoclasts for the Christian version). I would hope we wouldn't get our embassies burned down if a thoughtful and serious movie about the Prophet's life were to be made in the U.S., but I'm not so sure.
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Sep 14, 2012 15:33
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