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Novum posted:Not to change the subject, but I just started Judo-ing recently, how long have you been playing? i.e. How long until my knees start acting up like I'm an old man? I've only been doing Judo for 8 months now. My knees aren't bad or anything, it's just that during randori two weeks ago someone's knee caught me right to the side of mine and bruised that whole area up and it just hurts to put pressure on it. I'd just stay off the mats, but I guess I'm just a masochist or something. I'm a heavy dude so just kneeling hurts. I figured I'd get a pad now and just keep it on until my knee feels better and put it on whenever something like that happens again.
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Oct 28, 2012 06:09
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The Darlok posted:Definitely couldn't have come close to expecting the huge adrenaline dump and nerves going on.
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Oct 28, 2012 10:42
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Lectim posted:I've only been doing Judo for 8 months now. My knees aren't bad or anything, it's just that during randori two weeks ago someone's knee caught me right to the side of mine and bruised that whole area up and it just hurts to put pressure on it. I'd just stay off the mats, but I guess I'm just a masochist or something. The bruises from messed up foot sweeps, sasae and hiza never really go away, but they do hurt less after a while. Also as you work with better people who can sweep and play ashi-waza without just kicking the poo poo out of you will make a huge difference. Knee pads are not a bad decision. If your knees hurt from falls, just take the fall on your back, its just practice. If it's from getting kicked, find better partners/ask your partners to stop kicking you.
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Oct 28, 2012 11:39
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I hope this hasn't been brought up but I'm afraid I haven't read the last hundred pages. Anyway, I've read a little about MCMAP, the US Marine Corps' fighting system -- I'd like to give it a shot without actually joining the Marines. Is it possible to get training in it, without being a soldier? If so, does anyone know who I might contact in the NYC area?
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Oct 28, 2012 16:28
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niethan posted:You'll probably be way less nervous in your next competition, at least that was my experience. I find myself a little nervous right before the first match, then once I get through it the day is smooth. But my first tournament I totally blew out my arms in the first match and was struggling after that. picosecond posted:I hope this hasn't been brought up but I'm afraid I haven't read the last hundred pages. Anyway, I've read a little about MCMAP, the US Marine Corps' fighting system -- I'd like to give it a shot without actually joining the Marines. Is it possible to get training in it, without being a soldier? If so, does anyone know who I might contact in the NYC area? If I could ask, what intrigues you about what MCMAP teaches?
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Oct 28, 2012 16:33
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TheKingslayer posted:If I could ask, what intrigues you about what MCMAP teaches? A couple of things: One is their muscle gouges, which is something I've never really done because it never seemed like it would be effective. I imagine that if anyone can show you how to make it effective, it's the military. There's also the bayonet work -- I've never done that, and would probably never need to in a real-life situation. Still, it just seems kinda interesting. Finally, as much as I like the ceremony and tradition behind the training, I've been more interested lately in fighting systems that can be used in a day-to-day situation. My (minimal) Krav Maga studies have awakened this in me so I feel like I should pursue it further. The US Marines are one of the worlds' better fighting forces, so if anyone has a good combat system that'll work in real life, it's them. Or so I assume, maybe my patriotism has biased me. 
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Oct 28, 2012 16:46
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I don't know, from what I've seen and read all the military hand to hand combat systems seem to be more like let's teach and instill as much confidence as we can in a couple of weeks, these dudes will be packing heat anyways.
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Oct 28, 2012 16:52
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Yeah, military martial arts, wether it's Krav Maga, MCMAP or whatever really aren't anything especially advanced. They are designed so that they can be taught to raw recruits in a a few weeks, in between all other training so focus will always be on what's simpel and effective. There really won't be any special techniques. Just simple stuff like straight punces and kicks and a focus on agression and never giving up over refined skill.
DekeThornton fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Oct 28, 2012 |
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Oct 28, 2012 17:26
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Someone training boxing and BJJ would destroy most military systems.
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Oct 28, 2012 19:18
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MCMAP is real basic and pretty lame. It's more about just hazing the poo poo out of you physically than teaching anything. And bringing out your inner warrior spirit or some poo poo. It's just little bits of things taken from all martial arts. Basic BJJ moves, wrist locks, how to fall, punches, kicks, etc. Not sure why you'd want to learn bayonet strikes. Your patriotism has blinded you. Marine accomplishments aren't front kicks and eye gouging people. Look elsewhere. There's a reason you don't see "FREE MCMAP TRIALS" all around like Krav Maga places. Nostalgia4Dogges fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Oct 28, 2012 |
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Oct 28, 2012 19:28
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So I take it you guys recommend not spending time and effort on this? Fair enough, then. This thread seems to know what it's talking about, most of the time -- so I'll take that recommendation & stick with what I was doing earlier.
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Oct 28, 2012 20:51
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picosecond posted:So I take it you guys recommend not spending time and effort on this? Fair enough, then. This thread seems to know what it's talking about, most of the time -- so I'll take that recommendation & stick with what I was doing earlier. I might catch flack for this but doing military combative training without ever being on the battlefield is basically mental masturbation. Do a combat sport and you can actually compete in real life and test yourself
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Oct 28, 2012 20:57
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Hey man if it gets you outside and working out and you have fun then by all means. But I much prefer the feeling of exhaustion and reward after a hard Muay Thai workout. Rather than doing buddy carries all over the place and poo poo. Just keep in mind it's not some super top secret deadly thing. As someone else mentioned above about krav maga (same applies) it's not something that's emphasized a lot and is more team building, etc. Are there even places that offer it? mewse posted:I might catch flack for this but doing military combative training without ever being on the battlefield is basically mental masturbation. Do a combat sport and you can actually compete in real life and test yourself And this. Nostalgia4Dogges fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Oct 28, 2012 |
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Oct 28, 2012 21:08
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From what I understand, great care in hand to hand combat is only given in special forces type units, and even then it's not exactly practical training for people who live in civilization (in that it really is dangerous). So, yeah, most of that military combat stuff is silly. I work out with a guy who is 58 years old and looks 35; he was in things that he can't really talk about and is real quiet, but he sure has taught me a lot and sees things differently than most people. He's where I get the "yeah, that stuff isn't really for you" information. Most people I've met that are interested is that kinda thing are idiots anyway and they're the ones that end up just getting hurt in practice trying to do something they saw on the internet. Take boxing/kickboxing/judo/jujitsu/whatever and have fun and understand that it's really not about beating people up. At least not entirely.
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Oct 28, 2012 21:59
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And my experience in working with people who were in the military and walk onto the mat thinking they're gonna be bad dudes hasn't left me with much respect for most of their training.
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Oct 28, 2012 22:02
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JAY ZERO SUM GAME posted:Take boxing/kickboxing/judo/jujitsu/whatever and have fun and understand that it's really not about beating people up. At least not entirely. A guy who I haven't seen at the gym in a while got a new, better job and was able to come back to classes. I gave him congrats on that job and then we sparred each other. That's how much of a sport/hobby it is, and not some mystical death art.
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Oct 28, 2012 22:24
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JAY ZERO SUM GAME posted:From what I understand, great care in hand to hand combat is only given in special forces type units, and even then it's not exactly practical training for people who live in civilization (in that it really is dangerous). So, yeah, most of that military combat stuff is silly. I work out with a guy who is 58 years old and looks 35; he was in things that he can't really talk about and is real quiet, but he sure has taught me a lot and sees things differently than most people. He's where I get the "yeah, that stuff isn't really for you" information. Kind of sounds like a patronizing idiot poser. There is no mystical Jason Bourne martial art that us proles don't 'need' because we're not fighting super assassins on a regular basis.
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Oct 29, 2012 00:36
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Well, alright. Cool post man
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Oct 29, 2012 00:39
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Techniques so deadly they cannot even be discussed.
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Oct 29, 2012 02:03
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Shhhhh  You're gonna get us all killed.
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Oct 29, 2012 02:09
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There is no special Navy Seal/Ranger/Delta Force martial art you dummy.
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Oct 29, 2012 02:20
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origami posted:Techniques so deadly they cannot even be discussed. According to my Narutos, this is a legitimate technique of Bujinkan.
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Oct 29, 2012 07:25
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JAY ZERO SUM GAME posted:From what I understand, great care in hand to hand combat is only given in special forces type units, and even then it's not exactly practical training for people who live in civilization (in that it really is dangerous). So, yeah, most of that military combat stuff is silly. I work out with a guy who is 58 years old and looks 35; he was in things that he can't really talk about and is real quiet, but he sure has taught me a lot and sees things differently than most people. He's where I get the "yeah, that stuff isn't really for you" information. Say hey to Steven Segal for me.
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Oct 29, 2012 07:31
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origami posted:Techniques so deadly they cannot even be discussed. Yeah, that stuff really isn't for you
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Oct 29, 2012 09:57
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An old marine I knew had a funny joke about how he could kill you with only his finger...because it was on the trigger. I've seen a lot of military dudes in the gym and the total for what they learn there is what you'll pickup in about a month of whatever style you pursue. Its 2012, soldiers use bombs and rifles, they give a fraction of a percent of a poo poo about hand to hand. Military guys are often really good at this stuff because they're in shape, used to learning and are mentally tough. None of that comes from the MCMAPs or whatever system. Find a boxing gym or a Judo school or any style with alive training.
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Oct 29, 2012 15:53
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Xguard86 posted:An old marine I knew had a funny joke about how he could kill you with only his finger...because it was on the trigger. Same goes for police officers (at least here in Quebec). I'd say their total training is usually equivalent to 2-3 months of judo. So they do get a head start as white belts, but it all disappears real fast. The big difference is that they are forced to be in shape for the three years they are in "college" and a couple years after for their other exams and stuff and they tend to have some experience being uncomfortable positions without giving in to their "panic" instinct. But mostly, they usually are fit and that always makes a huge difference.
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Oct 29, 2012 16:02
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Seriously willing to bet a lot of money that a large reason why Military guys are good fighters is because they're forced to get into shape and do the road work/conditioning. I can't count how many martial arts students who have been training nearly any martial art, be it muay thai, boxing, kung fu, karate, etc. for multiple + years who are still carrying spare tires and have a RoM of a horse because they don't put in the extra time and effort to train seriously
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Oct 29, 2012 17:11
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The Army Combatives program, at least, in terms of groundwork is basically white to blue belt requirements from most BJJ. The main instructor at my gym is an army reserve drill sergeant instructor and thats the program they use. The stand up is more like fundamental striking concepts you pick up in boxing or muy thai like how to gauge range, what to do inside each range, etc.
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Oct 29, 2012 17:24
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Guilty posted:Seriously willing to bet a lot of money that a large reason why Military guys are good fighters is because they're forced to get into shape and do the road work/conditioning. I can't count how many martial arts students who have been training nearly any martial art, be it muay thai, boxing, kung fu, karate, etc. for multiple + years who are still carrying spare tires and have a RoM of a horse because they don't put in the extra time and effort to train seriously Which is pretty different from middle aged folks in any gym. (I would say my gym was about half young guys 16-25 and half is older folks, 30+) Wayne Muromoto has a pretty interesting article on the subject.
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Oct 30, 2012 02:53
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Senor P. posted:They also have the time to do so and are at the age for peak physical conditioning. There are few people in the world who can legit say thdy don't have the time to train. Even grad students and post docs (my business circles) find time to train and train intelligently. The amount of training required to make a decent and capable fighter is not a lot
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Oct 30, 2012 03:00
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Guilty posted:There are few people in the world who can legit say thdy don't have the time to train. Even grad students and post docs (my business circles) find time to train and train intelligently. The amount of training required to make a decent and capable fighter is not a lot I'm not talking about students. (Graduate or undergrad) I'm talking about people with family with mouths to feed, with insurance to provide. People who work 10-12 hours a day, 5, 6, 7 days a week. You know, people who have some actual responsibilities. (Most graduate students don't have family to support. From the ones I worked with a couple of post docs were just starting their family and that takes a whole new realm of responsibility that you don't 'get' while you're single.) How much time are you talking about? I don't do MMA at the moment. In my head I'm picturing 1.5-2 hours a day say 3-4 days per week. In addition to weight training. Commuting back and forth to the gym. Its starting to look like a lot of time to me. Especially if you only get a 2-3 of hours per day 'off' before you need to rest for the next. Most middle aged adults that I work with are not going to be able to sink the time into training when they need to be with their families. They've got poo poo to do. Of course if you're living in the city with a 9-5 job Monday thru Friday with a short commute, then yeah I agree anyone is able to train with that kind of easy schedule. But if you're working the blue collar life, things are quite a bit different. Senor P. fucked around with this message at 03:28 on Oct 30, 2012 |
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Oct 30, 2012 03:06
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Ah that's right, I live in Germany where there are actual labor laws protecting workers and no one is forced into an insane schedule just to remain employed. I used grad students because we are the ones with insane schedules here. You're also getting super pedantic in order to prove a point. Edit: it's funny you said blue collar life because if anything, most gym members are blue collar people Guilty fucked around with this message at 09:51 on Oct 30, 2012 |
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Oct 30, 2012 09:48
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Senor P. posted:People who work 10-12 hours a day, 5, 6, 7 days a week. You know, people who have some actual responsibilities. This is illegal in every western country except the USA, so it's not really fair to hold us all these standards. 02-6611-0142-1 fucked around with this message at 10:44 on Oct 30, 2012 |
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Oct 30, 2012 10:37
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02-6611-0142-1 posted:This is illegal in every western country except the USA, so it's not really fair to hold us all these standards. If you work any less, you don't have actual responsibilities. Responsibility is measured in hours worked
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Oct 30, 2012 12:32
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I think the point was that it's hard to put in serious hours when you're working a full time job and raising a family where those responsibilities coupled with potential commuting to the actual gym as well as other miscellaneous odds and ends might leave someone with an undesirably small amount of free time for other recreational pursuits. I also think you know that's what he was trying to get at.
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Oct 30, 2012 12:47
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Novum posted:I think the point was that it's hard to put in serious hours when you're working a full time job and raising a family where those responsibilities coupled with potential commuting to the actual gym as well as other miscellaneous odds and ends might leave someone with an undesirably small amount of free time for other recreational pursuits. I also think you know that's what he was trying to get at. I also disagree, based purely on the amount of members I've seen training at various gyms in various different sports or even just weight lifting in Germany. It's easy to make excuses, but I wouldn't say that even a small majority of dads in the world are fat. 2-3 times a week is enough to stay fit and healthy. This IS a recreational pursuit. It's one that many people in the world choose. Some people want to watch movies and t.v., read books, paint pictures, play the piano. Some people want to get sweaty with strange men. Different people unwind in different ways. And no one in the world is OBLIGATED to do a martial art or even work out. If you feel this way, you have other issues that you need to sort out in your life. Back to the original point, anyone could be a decent fighter if they're willing to train intelligently and efficiently. If you're wasting those 2-3 times a week learning how to channel chi or something, you're not going to do poo poo. But if you've got a decent trainer and a desire to learn, full time dad or no, you're going to come out ok, and it's well within the realm of possibility that you could be on the level of fighting a marine. (don't put words in my mouth on this one) Guilty fucked around with this message at 13:18 on Oct 30, 2012 |
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Oct 30, 2012 13:15
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Guilty posted:I can't count how many martial arts students who have been training nearly any martial art, be it muay thai, boxing, kung fu, karate, etc. for multiple + years who are still carrying spare tires and have a RoM of a horse because they don't put in the extra time and effort to train seriously You know I don't usually find this as an indicator for someone's fitness I've met people who are incredibly overweight in appearance who have cardio through the roof, likewise I know quite a few people who by appearance would be deemed "fit" but cant run a hundred metres without almost dying. I carry some extra baggage I've been trying to shed it for years but my job involve's alot of sitting around and weird shifts so its sometimes hard to squeeze in training (i try and subsidize with long runs and lifting) Some people are just lucky I guess I always joke with my mates that I my be a little fat but If you take the piss I can punch you harder and faster than you can punch me.
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Oct 30, 2012 13:45
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Just teach jiujitsu instead of work, dumbasses. : :
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Oct 30, 2012 14:01
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Does anyone know when/exactly why ground work was given some time limitation in judo? I know the first rule change that removed many locks and stopped people from pulling guard was a reaction to kosen judo in the first half of the 20th century, but I'm talking about the current "you have a short, yet undetermined, time to do something in the ground phase on the fight". If I recall correctly this was mainly because judo became a spectator sport right? Just how recent is it? I couldn't find any good information on this specific subject. KingColliwog fucked around with this message at 21:50 on Oct 30, 2012 |
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Oct 30, 2012 21:48
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I think it was the 1925 rule changes, but I can't find a lot of detail about them. This might have your answer in it, it looks pretty good: http://www.sydhoare.com/development.pdf So anyway, back to topic, I'm either proud or embarassed to admit that I recently started two jobs entirely to wrap around my training schedule. 40 hours total, both are an easy jog to the gym, both finish early enough to get there on time, neither will care if I rock up with facial bruising.
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Oct 30, 2012 22:07
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