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Powershift posted:With a carbon fibre chassis?
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Feb 12, 2013 19:41
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Alfa are to Fiat what Audi are to VW, so think of it like an R8.
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Feb 12, 2013 19:54
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Well, we can only hope it depreciates like a sofa :P
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Feb 12, 2013 19:55
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bull3964 posted:I just think they're going to have trouble with finding the people that have Cayman money buying in this car segment that will divorce themselves from the Porsche badge. I don't know, Alfa Romeo is a pretty strong brand, and they can at least trundle along with brand mysticism for a long time.
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Feb 12, 2013 20:22
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I think Marchionne really wants to move Alfa further into luxury and sports car territory. We already saw a glimpse of this with the 8C Competizione. Alfa used to build some of the greatest race cars and sports cars ever made. Put in simpler terms, if it wasn't for Alfa Romeo, there would be no Ferrari. People talk about heritage and history in relation to various car makers. No other brand has nearly as much of that as Alfa Romeo. Having Alfa reduced to premium family car maker, making only FWD cars no less, was a great shame. I really hope they succeed in moving back to outright sports cars. They've been making premium Fiats for far too long, I want to see them succeed as a little brother to Maserati and Ferrari. I'd like to call it now. The 4C is the new Lancia Stratos. KozmoNaut fucked around with this message at 20:44 on Feb 12, 2013 |
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Feb 12, 2013 20:40
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Yeah, Alfa has a lot of heritage, but the brand got diluted into pointlessness with all the mediocre FWD rebadges. Thankfully Marchionne seems to know what's up, because Alfa and Mazda are also already working on the
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Feb 12, 2013 21:24
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Powershift posted:More like call it the impala and scrap the existing impala. Chevy has too many models that are crippled and weak out of fear of stepping on one of their other product's toes. The imapala is going to be a $27,000 175hp i4 FWD shitheap that couldn't exist along side a $27,000 320hp v6 RWD SS. The v6 impala is going to be a $35,000 300hp v6 FWD shitheap that couldn't exist along side a $35,000 400+hp v8 RWD SS. the american SS is probably going to be LS3+ only, and around $40,000. Would fleet buyers be willing to buy a RWD vehicle even if price and fuel economy were comparable to the FWD Impala?
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Feb 12, 2013 21:29
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Fat Twitter Man posted:Would fleet buyers be willing to buy a RWD vehicle even if price and fuel economy were comparable to the FWD Impala? They've been buying the Crown Vic for god knows how long so why wouldn't they?
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Feb 12, 2013 21:35
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Rear vis on the Alfa looks challenging, not that I'd complain.InitialDave posted:Alfa are to Fiat what Audi are to VW And now Lancia :: Skoda
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Feb 12, 2013 21:42
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Powershift posted:The BRZ/FRS made a lot of compromises to hit the price point it did like steel body pannels, cast iron suspension components. Considering this has elise specs, i'd expect elise prices, so 75k+ in the US minimum. I believe Elises start around $50k, nowhere near 75k.
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Feb 12, 2013 22:53
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dissss posted:They've said that about every model since at least the VN Not really, since GM Europe were still developing the V platform (which became the VT) at that time, so the Commodore had some life. The Falcon was the one which was on death row in 1980, due to fuel prices at that time, and the fact the smaller VB/VC Commodore was outselling it. The XD was going to be the last model, replaced by either a stretched Telstar (oh yeah, that would've gone down well) or stretched Granada. Thankfully sales for the Falcon rebounded in 1981 and beat the Commodore in 1982 so those plans were shelved.
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Feb 12, 2013 23:14
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It looks like a cross between an Elise and an MR2 Spyder. Gotta love the back window that lets you see the engine... oh wait that's just a plastic engine cover. I'll take a Corvette, thanks.
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Feb 13, 2013 00:13
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I like the concept of 850kg, Italian styling (AND IDEALLY RELIABILITY!!!!) and a mother loving real Alfa for 60k.
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Feb 13, 2013 01:40
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I saw the concept for the 4C in Geneva. The same show debuted the Aventador which looked nice, and had a hi-vis yellow SLS which certainly stood out, it had some Koenigseggs which looked like cool anime cars and countless other amazing and desirable cars. The 4C outshone them all, it was truly jaw-dropping. I'd love to see the production version in person to see if it's anywhere near as nice.
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Feb 13, 2013 02:17
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With a 1.8l 4 cyl engine it's kind of down on power, so I doubt they could charge as much for it as a 6 cyl Porch. Americans still want the big motor even if the car is lighter.
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Feb 13, 2013 02:22
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The engine's 235hp in the Giulietta. I'd hope they turn it up a bit for this application. They'd be within touching distance of the Porsche 2.7L that way. I don't think they're going to get a lot of conquest buyers from Porsche. I'd imagine with the limited run that they sell them all to Alfisti who frankly don't give a gently caress about that poo poo except that it's a True Alfa or whatever.
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Feb 13, 2013 03:57
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:They'd be within touching distance of the Porsche 2.7L that way. Huh. Well I guess TIL that Porsch charges a lot of money for the same power as a V6 Mustang.  
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Feb 13, 2013 04:24
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Aren't Elise sales numbers a complete disaster? It would seem shooting for similar paper specs at a higher price gambling on cachet is a risky gambit.
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Feb 13, 2013 04:32
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Snowdens Secret posted:Aren't Elise sales numbers a complete disaster? It would seem shooting for similar paper specs at a higher price gambling on cachet is a risky gambit. The Elise is a weird looking fiberglass kitcar built in a shed from leftover Lucas parts. Where do you even get an Elise? Is there a Lotus dealer near you? This thing is an actual real car from a major automaker that's going to be sold in Chrysler dealers.
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Feb 13, 2013 05:38
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Throatwarbler posted:The Elise is a weird looking fiberglass kitcar built in a shed from leftover Lucas parts. Where do you even get an Elise? Is there a Lotus dealer near you? The Elise also sold very well for what it is, they only ended export to the US because the the airbag exemption ended in 2012.
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Feb 13, 2013 05:43
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Isn't a 2:1 length:width ratio an exceptionally wide aspect car?
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Feb 13, 2013 05:51
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kimbo305 posted:Isn't a 2:1 length:width ratio an exceptionally wide aspect car? I think so, it's basically the same length/wheelbase as a Miata but a foot wider. I can't help but wonder if it might actually be a better handler if they had made the length/wheelbase a little longer, and it's that short just to hit the weight target.
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Feb 13, 2013 05:59
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With that wheelbase and track, I'm going to hazard a guess that the handling of the 4C can be summed up as "tricky". Also, I'll bet it's going to ride like crap on our bad North Ameican roads. I mean, being a focused sports car means it's going to ride harshly no matter what; what I'm saying is that it's going to be almost intolerable.
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Feb 13, 2013 06:15
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MrChips posted:I mean, being a focused sports car means it's going to ride harshly no matter what; what I'm saying is that it's going to be almost intolerable. For a car built to this price, yes, but future supercars will all sport magnetic shocks with the cross side fluid diverters like the MP12. I think those ought to ride pretty well when you want them soft.
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Feb 13, 2013 06:19
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MrChips posted:With that wheelbase and track, I'm going to hazard a guess that the handling of the 4C can be summed up as "tricky". Also, I'll bet it's going to ride like crap on our bad North Ameican roads. I mean, being a focused sports car means it's going to ride harshly no matter what; what I'm saying is that it's going to be almost intolerable. That is probably the wildest speculation you could possibly have. What basis do you have for that? The Fiat 600? Mk1 Toyota MR2? Modern cars with true dastardly handling barely exist anymore, besides the Elise which isn't even in production. The Elise was designed to be an uncompromisingly light near-race car, not a nice place to sit in traffic or drive sloppily in inclement weather. The 4C won't be an Elise, it will be more like a Cayman or a Z4.
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Feb 13, 2013 06:25
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I used to live within 20 miles of 2 lotus dealers. Do people drive Boxters anymore? Or even the Cayman? How are the sales? I see lots of Cayennes,Panameras, Targas and Turbos.
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Feb 13, 2013 06:27
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DJ Commie posted:That is probably the wildest speculation you could possibly have. What basis do you have for that? The Fiat 600? Mk1 Toyota MR2? Modern cars with true dastardly handling barely exist anymore, besides the Elise which isn't even in production. The Elise was designed to be an uncompromisingly light near-race car, not a nice place to sit in traffic or drive sloppily in inclement weather. The 4C won't be an Elise, it will be more like a Cayman or a Z4. It is wild speculation, I'll admit, and partly based on old information which might not be true it seems. My thought was that the 4C was still going to be based on the KTM X-Bow (as the 4C Concept was), which is pretty much all of those things I mentioned in terms or handling and ride quality. However, it seems that the production 4C likely won't share much with the X-Bow, if anything, beyond construction materials and methods. My bad for not looking into this further. That said, I still have serious reservations whether or not the 4C will be any good or not. After all, how long has it been since Alfa has built a truly good car? They've certainly built good looking cars, and even cars which come achingly close to being good, but you even said yourself that they've trundled along on their badge for a long time now.
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Feb 13, 2013 07:53
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It'll be mediocre dynamically like the 8C, and that's if SRT can touch it up a bit. But that car is for looks and attention, and in that respect it'll do fine.
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Feb 13, 2013 08:42
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mobby_6kl posted:
Alfa RoMazda 
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Feb 13, 2013 09:28
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b0nes posted:I used to live within 20 miles of 2 lotus dealers. May be a regional thing; I'd be willing to bet roadsters are the most popular in areas which have the most top-down days. Boxsters used to be extremely rare in my area, but they seem to be getting a lot more common as cost comes down in the used market and spend less time sitting in the garage as a 2nd car for rich people and more time as middle class DD. grover fucked around with this message at 11:48 on Feb 13, 2013 |
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Feb 13, 2013 11:45
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:The engine's 235hp in the Giulietta. I'd hope they turn it up a bit for this application. They'd be within touching distance of the Porsche 2.7L that way. Allegedly, they have it running reliably in test cars with 300hp, which I'd say is pretty good for a production 1750cc four-cylinder turbo engine. Turbocharging, direct injection and independent variable valve control is one hell of combo.
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Feb 13, 2013 13:46
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Throatwarbler posted:
I still think you may be overestimating brand recognition. To most people in the US, the only awareness to Alfa Romeo that they know (if they know any at all) is "Isn't that the name of the small vintage convertible the quirky old guy down the block owns?" I mean, the only car they've sold in the US in the past 17 years is the 8C Competizione and there are a whopping 84 of them banging round the country.
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Feb 13, 2013 15:06
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I said nothing in my post about brand recognition? Lotus probably has more brand recognition than Alfa in the US, due to Top Gear, that's not what was holding back the Elise. In any case various sources are saying that total global production is not exceeding 2,500/year, so we probably won't have to worry about them selling. I posted this before but here's a blurb about the 1750 TBi engine's intake and exhaust. Apparently it uses direct injection to inject fuel into the exhaust stroke, like anti-lag. http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evocarreviews/240904/alfa_romeo_1750_tbi.html quote:
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Feb 13, 2013 15:35
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New Audi S3 with 300hp autoblog posted:Not content to let Volkswagen have all of the fun with its GTI and Golf R, Audi is rebooting its five-door S3 Sportback with rather monstrous power. Headed for an official unveil at this year's Geneva Motor Show, the new S3 rolls out with a 300-horsepower, 280-pound-feet of torque turbocharged 2.0-liter TFSI engine under the hood. The four-cylinder powerplant is strong enough to shove the Sportback to 62 miles per hour in just 5.0 seconds when connected to the optional S-Tronic gearbox, or 5.5 seconds with the traditional manual transmission. Top speed is said to be an electronically governed 155 mph. Almost as impressive as those performance figures are the fuel economy ratings: the S- S3 is said to average 34 miles per gallon. http://www.autoblog.com/2013/02/13/300-hp-2013-audi-s3-sportback-unwrapped/ probably not coming to the US though 
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Feb 13, 2013 19:12
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Because, gently caress audi, new A45 with 360hp and a dual clutch 7 speed. quote:Fun coincidence. On the same day that Audi announces the unveiling of its new S3 Sportback at the Geneva Motor Show, Mercedes-Benz steals the spotlight by confirming that the all-new A45 AMG will also receive its official debut early next month. Starting life as the entry-level A-Class hatchback, the A45 AMG gets the full AMG treatment, which includes numerous performance, handling and styling upgrades. http://www.autoblog.com/2013/02/13/mercedes-benz-a45-amg-shows-up-to-fight-the-hottest-hatches/ i would give my spleen for this to be sold in canada, but i doubt it will ever come.
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Feb 13, 2013 19:17
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Wonder what the price would be for america. The video is sweet, sounds awesome because AMGs always sound good, and it has AWD which is interesting + a DCT. Real nice specs but i personally think the nose, headlights, and taillights are really oversized. Id have to see one in person.
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Feb 13, 2013 19:47
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It looks like a Mercedes'd up Focus ST to me  .I would still drive the poo poo out of it.
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Feb 13, 2013 20:00
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I love the horsepower wars currently going on 
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Feb 13, 2013 20:02
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Tusen Takk posted:It looks like a Mercedes'd up Focus ST to me except it's AWD, over 100 more horsepower, and 60 more ft/lbs of torque. In canada, the C63 AMG is 65 grand, a loaded STI is 43 grand, The evo starts at 42 grand, and an evo MR is 52 grand. This car could potentially be competative in the market, as there is no way it would cost more than a C63 amg.
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Feb 13, 2013 20:07
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Powershift posted:except it's AWD, over 100 more horsepower, and 60 more ft/lbs of torque. I meant the body styling, not performance. Also, I didn't realise that STI's had gotten that expensive, though I had a feeling an Evo would be around that much  .
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Feb 13, 2013 20:16
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