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I downloaded the patch. Can't wait to see if I can stop taking so long with this Impossible run now that (hopefully) Sectopods won't just pop in to say "what up" when I'm trying to take on a squad of Muton Elites.
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Mar 5, 2013 02:06
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So today, in this thread, I learned what the teleportation bug actually was and then they released the beta patch that supposedly fixes the issue. I totally feel like I am responsible for this change. You are all welcome.
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Mar 5, 2013 02:34
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I somehow never encountered a battleship in my first play through. Did I beat the game too fast the first time? Cause I could've used the Gallop chamber to start the final mission but decided to research the final few things I needed and it showed up.
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Mar 5, 2013 03:05
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Pumpkinreaper posted:Maybe I'm missing something, but the guide you quoted doesn't seem to work, I never have enough money for the satellite uplink after buying the 4 satellites. This is on impossible with africa as my starting continent. My start was North America on Classic, so that probably has a lot to do with it. I restarted several times until I got the first UFO early enough to ignore it and shoot down the second, larger UFO before 21 days to the report.
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Mar 5, 2013 03:05
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Orgophlax posted:I somehow never encountered a battleship in my first play through. Did I beat the game too fast the first time? Cause I could've used the Gallop chamber to start the final mission but decided to research the final few things I needed and it showed up. It's a random occurrence. Best bet on seeing it is just to wait before the final assault since it only shows up at the end of the alien's tech path.
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Mar 5, 2013 03:10
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Brainamp posted:It's a random occurrence. Best bet on seeing it is just to wait before the final assault since it only shows up at the end of the alien's tech path. Can't you also bait a battleship in by ignoring a scout craft after like month 2?
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Mar 5, 2013 03:15
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Orgophlax posted:I somehow never encountered a battleship in my first play through. Did I beat the game too fast the first time? Cause I could've used the Gallop chamber to start the final mission but decided to research the final few things I needed and it showed up. I didn't see one on my first playthrough either, which does exclude you from some research.
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Mar 5, 2013 03:23
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FairGame posted:Can't you also bait a battleship in by ignoring a scout craft after like month 2? Yep
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Mar 5, 2013 03:48
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Pocket Billiards posted:I didn't see one on my first playthrough either, which does exclude you from some research. I'm pretty sure you need battleships to get the blaster cannon which is pretty much the most awesome thing in the game. Also, with the new patch I witnessed enemies teleporting away from me now.  I could see life bars for a squad of mutons that were just outside my squads field of view and in one turn they teleported a fair distance away but they still "activated" when I got within range of where they were originally standing.
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Mar 5, 2013 05:06
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SeaTard posted:For anyone that can't get to that link because of work proxies, etc, it's a Steam beta for the next XCOM patch. I develop software for a living and I have to debug and unit-test my code to catch bugs like this. I deal with financial transactions that can go up to hundreds of millions in multiple currencies so I have to make sure the math works consistently all the time. Whatever problem they are having indicates a flaw in their mathematical formulas or their approach to the calculations. Firaxis's development team doesn't appear to really understand what the underlying problem is. What I'm getting at is that they need more experienced personnel to help them get to the bottom of the issues. At least, that's what I would do at this point if facing the same problems. Sorry to rant, as this all just frustrates me as a software developer.
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Mar 5, 2013 05:34
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I don't see it that way. I think they're just throwing a bone to the community while it goes through console approval hell.
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Mar 5, 2013 05:42
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teethgrinder posted:I don't see it that way. I think they're just throwing a bone to the community while it goes through console approval hell. I wonder if they found the way around Microsoft's xbox update scam, by calling the actual patches for PC users "betas".
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Mar 5, 2013 06:03
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straw man posted:I wonder if they found the way around Microsoft's xbox update scam, by calling the actual patches for PC users "betas". That's what Bethesda did for Skyrim patches. I doubt there's anything from the console companies that states PC versions cannot be updated independently of the console versions though.
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Mar 5, 2013 12:58
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Can anybody verify that the beta patch actually fixes the telepoprting enemies bug? I'm kind of afraid to try it given how their past attempts to fix it just made it act weirder. 
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Mar 5, 2013 17:26
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Jibo posted:Also, with the new patch I witnessed enemies teleporting away from me now. This has always been in the game. Unactivated aliens move via teleporting, which is fine if you can't see them. Unfortunately, the switch to regular walking happens when the aliens are activated and not when you see them, which means if you see them either via a scanner or move to the exact edge of vision then you will be able to see them teleporting. Edit: though the activating thing is definitely a bug.
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Mar 5, 2013 17:46
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sean10mm posted:Can anybody verify that the beta patch actually fixes the telepoprting enemies bug? I'm kind of afraid to try it given how their past attempts to fix it just made it act weirder. It seems to fix the Hunker Down teleport bug (Hunker Down reduces soldier sight range to 3 tiles, Alien patrol teleports to exactly 3 tiles away even if other soldiers are not in Hunker Down), but now there are many "soft teleport" problems, where enemies will activate from across the map inside the FOW, then immediately teleport to another area, take their free move, and disappear. It's definitely an improvement, but still not ideal.
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Mar 5, 2013 17:47
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nnnotime posted:Sorry to rant, as this all just frustrates me as a software developer. Unit testing doesn't deal with interactions between multiple objects. That's the point of mocking. The teleport bug is definitely multiple objects interacting in a way they shouldn't. Beyond that, nothing is ever truly working until it's tested under use (Agile definition, anyway). It is dishonest to tell your superiors or customers something is known working until this is done. This also bothers the crap out of me as a professional, but all the issues I've seen from Firaxis are staffing, not competence or process. They likely don't have dedicated QA resources the way you and I are used to. They definitely don't have product managers to handle persistent business issues like patch verification. It's a great way to set up a developer to fail even when he's done his job faithfully.
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Mar 5, 2013 17:50
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Finally did get a battleship encounter, storming the bridge was more exciting than my previous Temple Ship run. All the good Xcom stuff hit at once units being mind controlled, rockets going off course, missing a couple of >=75% shots in a row, critical wounded soldier in an exposed area, etc. With the battleship I think I've seen all the game has to offer now. I'm definitely done with Normal difficulty. This teleportation bug hasn't bothered me at all, I had a couple of instances in my first play through, but none I could tell in the second. I've managed to put 50 hours into the game, but the odd thing is I can't play it for extended periods. As soon as I get the same mission type a second time around, like terror, crashed UFO, etc, I'll lose all desire to play and then leave it. Then a little while later I'll come back and do the same thing.
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Mar 5, 2013 18:22
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I've taken to reloading if I move somewhere where it looks like I should have LOS and don't. Not all the time but if it's an important shot, I don't feel guilty or cheap. Being able to see line of sight before you move should be there already. Does it seem like something that would be hard to implement?
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Mar 5, 2013 18:25
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It probably isn't but the point here is that the turn base simulates a running action where you don't know if you have line of sight for sure until you get there. This is why it's unlike a lot of other turn based RPG type games where you can select and reselect where you want your character before you lock it in. It's a signature XCOM thing.
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Mar 5, 2013 18:31
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Raar_Im_A_Dinosaur posted:I've taken to reloading if I move somewhere where it looks like I should have LOS and don't. Not all the time but if it's an important shot, I don't feel guilty or cheap. Being able to see line of sight before you move should be there already. Does it seem like something that would be hard to implement? This was a day 1 request from me.
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Mar 5, 2013 18:35
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Coolguye posted:Unit testing doesn't deal with interactions between multiple objects. That's the point of mocking. The teleport bug is definitely multiple objects interacting in a way they shouldn't. From what I could tell from the game credits and the various tidbits I've watched or heard, Firaxis doesn't do QA in the standard way at all like you've mentioned, but they also shipped X-COM with a number of bugs they knew about partly because they were working so hard to actually ship their final iteration and polish it somehow after spending years flailing about with various prototypes. In fact, this is vaguely reminiscent of the project I'm on now, and our "QA" truly is horrifyingly bad. But for getting a lot of stuff (perceptibly) right with minimal risks to the budget? Nothing beats iterations for delivering that. Except the project I'm on is like half a billion loving dollars and it's falling apart constantly with the goal being to support thousands of concurrent users while everyone's slaving away at more and more features being added because the longer a project runs, the more the world changes and you get crap like Duke Nukem Forever.
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Mar 5, 2013 18:41
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Andre Banzai posted:You dedicated souls are the reason why Jake Solomon will probably have to dedicate a LOT of time making 800 maps for the expansion or, if he's smart, consider randomly generated maps like in the original. That last wish was covered in one of the many very interesting interviews involving him. He really wanted randomly generated maps. Really REALLY wanted them, fought for them until blue in the face. But when confronted with the certainty that it just wasn't possible with the resources available, he had to compromise. So yeah, if you're looking for the person who was most disappointed that the game didn't have random maps, you need look no further than ole Jakey himself. 
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Mar 5, 2013 18:51
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Good timing on an attempt to fix the bug. I just got a promising early I/I run smashed apart by about a dozen sectoids appearing all at once and getting a free round full of shots. I might have even survived with only the one red shirt casualty if my rocket hadn't also misfired.
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Mar 6, 2013 01:57
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nnnotime posted:I'm glad to see Firaxis is outsourcing quality-assurance to the public to see if the problem is resolved, but it's odd they don't know for sure if their fix will work. Financial transactions include a hell of a lot fewer variables than videogames. It's like comparing a bike to  Higher stakes, sure, but probably not as complex.
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Mar 6, 2013 04:38
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Toussaint Louverture posted:Financial transactions include a hell of a lot fewer variables than videogames. It's like comparing a bike to Anyhow, I do hope the problem is fixed. I just wish Firaxis showed more confidence that they understood and found the problem and resolved it for good.
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Mar 6, 2013 05:22
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There's no bug, that's the problem. The teleport is meant to work in zones where you do not have line of sight. Once you've done all-hunker down, there's no line of sight, and the zone near you becomes free for teleporting in. On this point, their code was solid. Trying to break it created a crapton of bugs, it seems. (I still think that coming up from hunker down and finding a muton squad should be expected, in XCOM spirit) As a fellow (junior) software developer, a game is an incredibly complex system - especially if AI is involved. In those cases, it's just incredible what bugs can come up for the dumbest reasons, and then you have to do a crapton of tests to point down a problem, IF you know there's any, that's bound to a special case, or even worse, a miscalculation of randomness. I don't think they simply lacked unit-testing pratices.
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Mar 6, 2013 05:33
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Speaking like that, it sounds like you've never encountered the actual bug. It occurs even without everyone hunkered down (that just exasperates it). The problem is they literally warp in to places where they should not be able to reach without someone seeing them at some point. At its most egregious, mutons will appear in the middle of your squad even with everyone standing on overwatch, flanking them, and then proceed to shoot half of your squad dead. teethgrinder fucked around with this message at 05:52 on Mar 6, 2013 |
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Mar 6, 2013 05:49
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When the game is feeling nice, the teleporting enemies will just do the usual "oh poo poo it's the humans!" animation and scramble for cover, giving you a full round to try and deal with them first. When the game is feeling less nice, nine loving guys (aka "the entire map's worth) will appear in the midst of your group, "pre-activated," so they still get to move for cover and take a free shot at your poor flanked bastards.
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Mar 6, 2013 06:33
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teethgrinder posted:Speaking like that, it sounds like you've never encountered the actual bug. It occurs even without everyone hunkered down (that just exasperates it). Mh, that kind of changes it. In four playthroughs, i've only had the teleport bug with hunker downs.
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Mar 6, 2013 14:14
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I'm probably jinxing it, but I think I might have a winning I/I game going. I did all of Slingshot--including that loving train mission--precisely when the Council asked me to. Now I've captured and interrogated sectoids, thin men, floaters, and mutons, and am also sitting on an absurd amount of alloys and elerium. I'm even going to assault the alien base in month 2 since this way I can not lose any countries beyond the 3 I lost in month 1. I'll also have enough money to get 8 (maybe 10 if I can do a nexus) satellites up by the end of month 3. I just wish I hadn't lost Mexico in month 1; I'd love to start building firestorms with the guided fusion laser to humiliate things in Month 3.
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Mar 6, 2013 15:52
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Coolguye posted:This also bothers the crap out of me as a professional, but all the issues I've seen from Firaxis are staffing, not competence or process. They likely don't have dedicated QA resources the way you and I are used to. They definitely don't have product managers to handle persistent business issues like patch verification. It's a great way to set up a developer to fail even when he's done his job faithfully. From what I've been able to tell, they have some kind of setup where part of their QA is housed at the publisher (2K Games), rather than in-house. Their community contacts for the process, including the Steam beta distribution and presumably data collection, are definitely on the 2K side of the fence. Bug submission is also done through the 2K Support infrastructure, and not directly to Firaxis. That's not to say they don't also have an in-house QA unit, but it does make me wonder if there's some kind of division of responsibility (and more recent shuffling of roles taking place) behind the scenes that's adding to the delays.
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Mar 6, 2013 18:15
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Edgecase posted:From what I've been able to tell, they have some kind of setup where part of their QA is housed at the publisher (2K Games), rather than in-house. Their community contacts for the process, including the Steam beta distribution and presumably data collection, are definitely on the 2K side of the fence. Bug submission is also done through the 2K Support infrastructure, and not directly to Firaxis. That's not to say they don't also have an in-house QA unit, but it does make me wonder if there's some kind of division of responsibility (and more recent shuffling of roles taking place) behind the scenes that's adding to the delays. As you can see here: http://steamdb.info/app/200510/#section_depots There are six seperate QA branches on Steam, not including the 2k Community Beta.
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Mar 6, 2013 19:40
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amanasleep posted:As you can see here: Yes, but those can be for a lot of different things, ranging from bug testing to localization to demo code. Several of them seem to be leftover from the initial QA push, and there's a clear trail of past RTM builds. I think I may have missed your point.
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Mar 6, 2013 20:11
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Edgecase posted:Yes, but those can be for a lot of different things, ranging from bug testing to localization to demo code. Several of them seem to be leftover from the initial QA push, and there's a clear trail of past RTM builds. All of them have been used in the History in the past 30 days, except for qa_beta2. For instance, qa_beta, qa_beta3, and 2k_community all have the same build, so it's clear that those teams worked on qa for the teleport bug fix build for the community beta. 2k_qa stopped with slightly earlier build numbers, so my guess is they get involved at a different level in the process. firaxis_qa is still adding builds, and the question is: what are they working on? XCOM:EW is the answer, but nobody knows what it is.
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Mar 6, 2013 20:30
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amanasleep posted:All of them have been used in the History in the past 30 days, except for qa_beta2. For instance, qa_beta, qa_beta3, and 2k_community all have the same build, so it's clear that those teams worked on qa for the teleport bug fix build for the community beta. 2k_qa stopped with slightly earlier build numbers, so my guess is they get involved at a different level in the process. Couldn't it also be something as simple as the different qa/qa2/qa3 drops being used to automate testing with and without the various DLCs installed? Point being, this is a lot of reading into a folder structure.
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Mar 6, 2013 20:57
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Edgecase posted:Couldn't it also be something as simple as the different qa/qa2/qa3 drops being used to automate testing with and without the various DLCs installed? Point being, this is a lot of reading into a folder structure. You're probably right about that. qa_beta seems to be associated with testing Elite Soldier Pack and Slingshot. qa_beta3 shows up once, for Executables. That leaves us with separate QA for Firaxis and 2K, plus the Community Beta.
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Mar 6, 2013 21:11
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Are there any cheats to add resources? I'm right at the final mission but I'm 10 fragments short of researching the rocket launcher upgrade and I don't wanna have to play all the way through for the research everything achievement.
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Mar 6, 2013 21:17
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Wait, get a UFO, kill some dudes? It won't take too long.
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Mar 6, 2013 21:18
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Ravenfood posted:Wait, get a UFO, kill some dudes? It won't take too long. I'm in my first classic run and I'm not too keen on putting my soldier's in harms way any more than they have to be.
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Mar 6, 2013 21:20
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