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Yeah, the game's definitely pointing us at Nagito now. Whether or not he actually did it, though, is still up in the air. Though now I have to wonder about his motive. That speech that he gave us just now about hope and how none of the students could have done it is definitely very weird. I mean, even our protagonist noticed it. Plus, if Nagito really did commit the crime and intends to escape, then why is he being so helpful? A possibility has occurred to me. Perhaps Nagito did intend to kill someone during the party - himself. Perhaps they're showing the flip side of Naegi's role as the ordinary student amongst super-talented individuals; someone who feels like an outcast who doesn't belong at the school. After all, I recall that Nagito mentioned that the school had to twist his arm a bit to convince him to actually attend Hope's Peak. So maybe he thought the best use of his talents was to set up the knife under the table and the blackout, dive under the table, and stab himself, orchestrating his own "murder" to unite everyone else. But, of course, Togami proved to be the spanner in the works, and noticed Nagito diving under the table thanks to his night-vision goggles. That's some Super High-School Level Bad Luck, right there. (There's also the possibility that Monobear blackmailed him into being the first killer, like he did with Sakura in the first game. Then he'd be trying for the same loophole that she did in Chapter 4 of the last game, only this time things didn't go as planned.) Working from this theory, maybe Nagito believes that he really did kill Togami in the kerfuffle, but doesn't want to confess right off the bat because he thinks no one would actually believe him. Of course, as mentioned before, whether or not he did it is still up in the air. If there is a way to get under the floorboards, that could end up changing everything. Wyvernil fucked around with this message at 17:48 on Mar 22, 2013 |
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Mar 22, 2013 17:40
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Ever since I saw Nagito's character art, I've had him filed under 'long term malignancy'. If the game is going where I think, and hope, it is, I wouldn't be surprised if he is accused of the murder, admits that he was the knife-planter (and thus conspired to murder someone), and perhaps admits to being (or lies about being) Monobear's agent, before he points out who the real killer is (probably either Souda or Hanamura). If that happens, Nagito ends up as the constant threat, and scapegoat, for the game; a Hannible Lecter to Syo's Freddy Krueger. If he is Monobear's agent, what better position to be in to passively cause despair? The students wouldn't really be able to do anything permanent to diffuse his threat, he throws off investigations by his very presence, makes everyone paranoid and uncomfortable, and is able to make his creepy hope/despair speeches when emotions run high in the hopes of causing people to lash out. Or, ya know, he could just be the killer, but that would feel like a waste of opportunity in the writing.
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Mar 22, 2013 17:43
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Wyvernil posted:Perhaps Nagito did intend to kill someone during the party - himself.  I'm not sure that this is where the game is going with this, but it does make a remarkable amount of sense. People have criticized the Nagito-knife-planting theory because there's no clear exit strategy once he's standing there with a knife in pitch blackness; the exit strategy was through his own jugular. The letter to Togami wasn't a threat, it was a suicide note. Nagito is legit fruit loops and the reason he's rambling about throwing the trial as if he had a death wish is because he has a death wish.
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Mar 22, 2013 17:56
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Was anyone else reminded of Junko's alternate personalities when Nagito was making his speech, 'cause I sure was. I don't think he is the killer, but he is probably the traitor, working for SHSL Despair, which could explain the whole Junko-like personality shifting he had going on.
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Mar 22, 2013 17:56
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I really hope it's not Nagito. His little psychotic break just made him one of the most interesting characters. It would be a shame to see him go to waste. The trial is far from over, though. We haven't brought up the fact that the knife isn't the murder weapon.
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Mar 22, 2013 17:57
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That Spot Select thing brings back baaad memories from Phoenix Wright. I must have tried that one fifty times and never did get it even though the clue seemed obvious and I tried clicking everywhere else just to be safe. Also I didn't think it was possible, but I think I might wind up enjoying this cast more than the original! Chiaki and Sonia were particularly great this update.
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Mar 22, 2013 18:01
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And here we see Nagito's fickle side. I can't wait for the at least three minutes of "Wait I take that evidence back!" when the culprit is unmasked. If it's not him, I mean. And I don't think it is. I might just be smitten, though. This guy's fantastic. 
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Mar 22, 2013 18:08
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orenronen posted:
My god Nanami is amazing. Definitely the best character now! Plus she was pretty much the only one keeping calm when Nagito was freaking everyone else out. And Nagito is just kinda freaking me out a bit as well 
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Mar 22, 2013 18:09
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You've got that wrong!
...I think.
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I'm with everyone else saying that we all really think Nagito is a super interesting character now (a kind of subversion of Naegi anymore, rather than just a straight "Hey I'm Naegi but secretly." thing.) This really kind of throws out my idea that Nagito was behind some kind of Super High School Level Hope dealie... I'm excited to see exactly where this trial leads us. I do have the itchy feeling that it could have been Nagito that did it, but I really hope (eh? EH!?) that it wasn't.
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Mar 22, 2013 18:11
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Wow, Nagito is REALLY suspicious - so much that even the protagonist is calling him on it. This is a completely unexpected turn. He must have been the one who set up the blackout and knife, and he was closest to the lamp. Nagito, obviously. Holy hell, Namami and "You've got that wrong!" Awesome.
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Mar 22, 2013 18:19
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Yeah, Nagito's episode here is just the tiniest bit unnerving. With that and that look he gave Nanami when she spoke up... yeah, the murderer's probably him. He's been waaaay too helpful otherwise.
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Mar 22, 2013 18:21
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Ok, well, Nagito being the anti-Naegi was kind of a shot in the dark but it's looking more and more likely. It's like he took all Naegi's positive traits and made them warped and evil Also I think we can safely say that Chiaki will be our Kirigiri for this game, since our first partner turned out to be a little crazy, I don't think Hinata will want to work with him anymore even if he survives the trial I'm still thinking Hanamura is the real killer though, but Nagito still totally made an attempt at Togami's life. SOL_Cambot fucked around with this message at 18:36 on Mar 22, 2013 |
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Mar 22, 2013 18:27
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Nagito is acting so suspicious, if no one wants to point out someone from the group he'd get out if he was the culprit right? Also, I guess Nagito yelling "Ow", was him following the cord and touching the still warm lamp.
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Mar 22, 2013 18:31
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resurgam40 posted:Yeah, Nagito's episode here is just the tiniest bit unnerving. With that and that look he gave Nanami when she spoke up... yeah, the murderer's probably him.
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Mar 22, 2013 18:34
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What did Mikan trip on? Was it the lamp cord?
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Mar 22, 2013 18:35
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Brannock posted:What did Mikan trip on? Was it the lamp cord? 
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Mar 22, 2013 18:38
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Paracelsus posted:Except that it's impossible for him to have killed Togami in the manner that actually happened in a fashion that comports with the evidence we have. Nothing about that has changed. It's possible for him to have attempted the murder, though. I do wish we had more evidence on whose blood is on the knife, and wounds that it might have caused. He could have rigged the outage, planted the knife in order to try and kill someone, then got stopped by Commando Togami, who snatched the knife out of his hand only to get skewered by somebody else. Going back to this snippet yet again:  Oy, what are you doing?!Stop it!! Ow!This suggests some kind of struggle between Togami and Nagito, though for how Nagito's been acting, he probably won't talk about it until we have his balls in a vice. So, let's go after Nagito. Pittsburgh Lambic fucked around with this message at 18:51 on Mar 22, 2013 |
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Mar 22, 2013 18:38
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Nagito is obviously who we're meant to point at here, but I won't be at all surprised to find that in the end, he isn't the actual killer. I do, however, believe that he meant to be. My theory is that Nagito is working for the Despair group, and had the same orders this game as Sakura had the last one, that is, to start off the murders. The difference is that Nagito is batshit insane and completely willing to be killed to get the game started. Nagito not being guilty of this murder is actually better for Despair, since the students will now have an attempted murderer (and mole for Despair, whether or not they are made aware of this fact) hanging out with them on the island. So given that Nagito was able to set off the power outage, that takes some heat off of Hanamura, though I still think Hanamura is the killer.
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Mar 22, 2013 18:42
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Sketchie posted:I don't think she tripped over the cord in the pitch darkness. She is way too far away from the cord. The map clearly proves it. Couldn't Togami have bowled her over when he was making a run for the table? But that wouldn't add anything new the case though, so I don't know
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Mar 22, 2013 18:43
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If Nagito did in fact follow the lamp cord to retrieve the knife, that pretty much means that he didn't commit the murder (regardless of intention) because the stabs were from the skewer, and therefore he will stick around for a while! I'm glad, his little side-trip into crazytown there was the most interesting thing that's happened with a character so far and I want to see where they go with it, and especially how he has to deal with 'so, uh, Nagito, your little crazy train ride there' afterwards.
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Mar 22, 2013 18:55
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Watching Nagito actively try to make everyone lie down and die was amazing. It almost worked, too. He can't be the culprit and he (almost certainly) knows it, which means killing everyone is the point. Even if he can't kill the killer now, he can sure as hell get everyone else. If the guesses in the thread are right and he was trying to kill himself, that suggests he was doing it in an attempt to kill everyone else too. Unlike the first game, they're told about the trials and their consequences long in advance. So if he arranged things such that he was the only possible culprit, but made it look like a murder, then he knew they'd try to find the culprit afterward. So everyone else would guess wrong, be executed, and the game comes to a very abrupt end. So now he goes for a double gambit. He tries to make them lie down and die. Either that works, and everyone is dead, or it fails and they start suspecting him. If they do and they vote for him, then they get it wrong and die. If they don't, he can still obscure things enough that it becomes more likely that they do fail. Man. I kind of wish Nagito or someone like him was the face of Despair from the start. This theory is a hell of a lot more chilling than Miss Multiple Personalities.
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Mar 22, 2013 18:57
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Wyvernil posted:Yeah, the game's definitely pointing us at Nagito now. Whether or not he actually did it, though, is still up in the air. Holy hell, that theory actually fills in a lot of missing pieces. Nagito was attempting to commit suicide under the table in pitch black, effectively attempting to get the entire cast killed off in one fell swoop. There'd be little to no evidence implicating any one person, and nobody in their right mind would suggest suicide under that circumstance. Why he would do this exactly isn't clear, but the dude is clearly twisted enough to pull off something like that. The Hanamura theory still holds up, since he'd still be able to witness Nagito setting things up in exactly the same way. Actually it's extremely tragic that instead of killing somebody who wanted them all dead, he killed the one man trying to prevent that (ignoring the fact that killing either of them is trying to kill everybody regardless  )Also, I loving love Nanami. I'm totally down with her being our Kirigiri. Edit: Oh, and obviously the answer here is Nagito. Armanky fucked around with this message at 19:14 on Mar 22, 2013 |
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Mar 22, 2013 18:59
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Nagito is so hung up on the friendship thing that he was willing to get everybody killed over it. Having a guy running around mistrusting people and continuously planning on how to prevent murder and not letting the subject go would get it the way of his views. Guy is clearly not sane in the head.
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Mar 22, 2013 19:00
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Nagito saying "Hope is going to win" seemed almost to be a confession in the third person. It seems fairly obvious at this point that it was him, especially since he was cleaning up the lodge to begin with; wouldn't he have had to know who messed with the air conditioner?
Common Coder fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Mar 22, 2013 |
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Mar 22, 2013 19:01
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Nagito is starting to remind me of Junko. Only instead of having a fetish for despair, he seems to have one for hope of all things. It's really creepy to think about, especially in this sort of circumstance. Also, Nanami taking over a portion of Hinata's job was perfect. It made it so that Hinata's not the only one who's able to have any sort of arguments. It was almost as fun watching her than it was watching Oren!
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Mar 22, 2013 19:06
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I'm pretty sure that people are misconstruing this "culprit choice" as just that. This really doesn't feel like the end of the trial to me. Instead, I think we're literally supposed to choose "who could have followed the lamp cord." Also, I don't know if you should all be declaring Nanami as the New Kirigiri, when the game has already demonstrated that there are plenty of characters that Hinata has worked with. Also, it's the first drat trial. Stop making declarations off of single events.
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Mar 22, 2013 19:12
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Yeah, this probably isn't a murder culprit choice. We just need to help Mr. Indecisive actually decide that "oh yeah, I could have followed the lamp cord! Thanks for clearing that up guys." before we actually crack down the law on the culprit.
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Mar 22, 2013 19:16
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Green Intern posted:I'm pretty sure that people are misconstruing this "culprit choice" as just that. This really doesn't feel like the end of the trial to me. Instead, I think we're literally supposed to choose "who could have followed the lamp cord." Not to mention Nanami pretty much says it outright: orenronen posted:
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Mar 22, 2013 19:19
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I can’t say for sure that it’s the culprit... But there is a clue that points to one suspicious person... I think.
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I agree with some of the other posters, I think Nagito planned to kill someone but did not. I think that he still wants to keep his attempted murder a secret, because he knows that no one will trust him ever again, and in turn might be a target for the next killer. Trying to convince everyone to give up would result in them all being killed, but maybe he views himself as a dead man anyway once the truth is uncovered. He'd rather die with everyone else then have to deal with the consequences of being found out. We still don't have an explanation for the bloody tablecloths in the storage room, do we? Maybe Nagito's "ow" was because he accidentally got stabbed by the skewer while he was under the table with Togami? I don't know if he'd have enough time to bandage himself up/get the tablecloth to the storage room/etc in the amount of time the blackout happened though. I still wonder what they came from. He was so disinterested in them when we found them, he has to have something to do with them. Mondlicht fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Mar 22, 2013 |
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Mar 22, 2013 19:21
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Nagito is the red herring, since the wounds don't really match the knife. It sucks if he is Naegi because that means he's kind of lost it in the interim.
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Mar 22, 2013 19:27
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I was wondering if the tablecloth might be Nagito's blood, too. Though my guess was that rather than being stabbed by the skewer, he could have accidentally cut himself on the knife when Togami was trying to stop him, which would explain why the knife is so bloody in the first place. Though, I'm also not sure if there was enough time for him to get to the storage room and back unnoticed, especially during the blackout, and from the looks of it we don't see him leave the main hall during investigation without Hinata with him.
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Mar 22, 2013 19:27
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There's still a lot of evidence we have to reconcile (bloody tablecloth, embarassing pose??) so it's fine to hold the game's hand for a little longer. The least obvious thing (to me) would be where the blood on the not-murder-weapon knife came from. I also wonder if we're ever going to hear more about the kitchen's power-guzzling hot pot and electric griddle. Also pretty sure Saionji has no capacity for emotion whatsoever and started crying in that moment of uncertainty just to be a dick.
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Mar 22, 2013 19:28
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I feel like the basic outline is shaping up to be: Hanamura is the actual murdering, Nagito had something planned but was beaten by Hanamura doing something unexpected beforehand." I get the feeling Hanamura didn't plan a murder but found himself in a convenient situation for one. If he was under the floorboards it was probably more for something like, say, being a massive pervert. That leaves Nagito as an actual lasting threat without dumping him too early on.
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Mar 22, 2013 19:30
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Now i'm really starting to hope that this Nagito Komaeda thing is Team Despair just making fun of him by going "hue hue hue look at me guys im NAEGI and i like to HOPE that you all DIE hahaha shitbirds". This whole thing is definitely just some really convoluted schoolyard bullying, and I for one won't stand for it. 
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Mar 22, 2013 19:31
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I was like 90% certain that this update would be the one to establish Nagito as the knife-planter but seriously, goddrat son. If I were actually playing the game and didn't have the LP format to comb over every little detail I'd definitely be thinking he was the killer by now if not for the facts that the wounds don't fit with the knife and that the skewer couldn't be used from the angle that it was used from by someone under the table.Mondlicht posted:We still don't have an explanation for the bloody tablecloths in the storage room, do we? Maybe Nagito's "ow" was because he accidentally got stabbed by the skewer while he was under the table with Togami? I don't know if he'd have enough time to bandage himself up/get the tablecloth to the storage room/etc in the amount of time the blackout happened though. I still wonder what they came from, though.
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Mar 22, 2013 19:35
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Okay, while the "Nagito is planning to commit suicide" theory is actually a great one to entertain... Wouldn't it just be easier to not plan the party, go to his room, lock the door, take out his store-bought-knife and then kill himself? He could even still leave a suicide note for Togami! Say he was blackmailed into killing someone by MB or the Despair Group or such. Why risk everything going awry by making it look like a murder since then there's a HUGE risk he wouldn't be saving everyone by killing himself, he'd threaten to take everyone else with him if they looked at his corpse and went "MURDER!!!" I'm not discounting it, but to me it looks more like he's insane on Hope, and is also possibly in denial about the killing when his own murder plan didn't go according to plan.
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Mar 22, 2013 19:35
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TKMobile posted:Okay, while the "Nagito is planning to commit suicide" theory is actually a great one to entertain... Wouldn't it just be easier to not plan the party, go to his room, lock the door, take out his store-bought-knife and then kill himself? He could even still leave a suicide note for Togami! Stabbing in the dark here but Nagito doesn't know how Monobear would react to suicide, although we do by seeing it in the first game. If we operate from the assumption that the current players have no idea of the events of the previous game, Nagito may not want to risk upsetting the rules of the game by introducing an uncovered situation.
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Mar 22, 2013 19:40
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TKMobile posted:Okay, while the "Nagito is planning to commit suicide" theory is actually a great one to entertain... Wouldn't it just be easier to not plan the party, go to his room, lock the door, take out his store-bought-knife and then kill himself? He could even still leave a suicide note for Togami! He's trying to save everyone, which is, naturally, why he told everyone to give up, stop looking for the culprit, and accept death. In my eyes, the only way to look at this last trial section's events is that he really does want everyone there to die. In which case killing himself in a way that makes it look like a murder has a much, much different look to it.
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Mar 22, 2013 20:00
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Requested_Username posted:Chiaki's pretty awesome. Chiaki and Nagito are easily my two favorites characters because of that scene. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Mar 22, 2013 20:04
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TKMobile posted:Okay, while the "Nagito is planning to commit suicide" theory is actually a great one to entertain... Wouldn't it just be easier to not plan the party, go to his room, lock the door, take out his store-bought-knife and then kill himself? He could even still leave a suicide note for Togami! If you're assuming he's trying to pull a Sakura and save everybody, then yes, this would be a better option. What I'm proposing is that he wanted to achieve just the opposite. He wanted to get everybody killed at once. To do this, he attempted to create a situation where every single person in the room could have been his killer, leading to an (ideally) unsolvable trial. It seems to me that his idea of "hope prevailing" involves everybody escaping this situation via death. At the very least, during this last update he was clearly trying to sabotage the entire trial, which would also get everybody (including himself) killed. The actual killer would be home free, obviously, but hey, fifteen out of sixteen ain't bad.
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Mar 22, 2013 20:08
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