|
Dr. Cogwerks posted:It's kinda nice to be able to mock these chucklefucks. I'm surprised no-one's mentioned Four Lions in this context, the UK black comedy about four terrorists who plot to blow up the London marathon. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ew-SrlQ9tlI
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2013 18:27
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 29, 2024 17:01 |
|
|
It feels weird not having guys on the run from a terrorist event 
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2013 18:27
|
|
|
ryan8723 posted:Anyone going to supermax lost the right to be called human when they committed their horrific crime, Supermax prisons are designed entirely around the idea of psychological punishment and I'm completely fine with that. Supermax prisons are designed to mentally torture people? I thought they were designed for maximum security. Jesus, we're so far gone.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2013 18:28
|
|
|
ryan8723 posted:Anyone going to supermax lost the right to be called human when they committed their horrific crime, Supermax prisons are designed entirely around the idea of psychological punishment and I'm completely fine with that. All humans have the right to be human. When someone is imprisoned and no longer a threat to society, torturing them is creating more suffering in the world for no purpose except revenge. We shouldn't strive to cause more suffering even if it targets people we justifiably hate.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2013 18:29
|
|
|
ryan8723 posted:Anyone going to supermax lost the right to be called human when they committed their horrific crime, Supermax prisons are designed entirely around the idea of psychological punishment and I'm completely fine with that. This kind of thinking makes you just as bad as the people you are accusing of being inhuman. The point of justice is to serve society and to do so humanely.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2013 18:29
|
|
|
the black husserl posted:You know what actually makes me feel better when I read people calling for more death, more torture? This picture: Put that on the wall of his cell.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2013 18:29
|
|
|
the runs formula posted:How exactly do you plan around a police shootout on a residential street? How about not be out on the street of the same town you blew up days ago? If they would have had a get away plan they could have been already in California by now or on a flight out to Chechnya or wherever they are from.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2013 18:30
|
|
|
the black husserl posted:Supermax prisons are designed to mentally torture people? I thought they were designed for maximum security. God, that's scary. Supermax is really defined as being a "control" type prison designed to house inmates who are way too violent to be in gen pop or are just way too good at coordinating criminal activity inside and out of prison. If anyone gets a chance, read up on the inmate list and you'll see a whole lot of people that just plain cannot contact society anymore. But, yeah, in practise it's all about mental torture because no way can 23 hours in a cell then 1 hour jogging around an empty concrete swimming pool be healthy to anyone's mind.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2013 18:30
|
|
|
ryan8723 posted:Anyone going to supermax lost the right to be called human when they committed their horrific crime, Supermax prisons are designed entirely around the idea of psychological punishment and I'm completely fine with that.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2013 18:30
|
|
|
ryan8723 posted:Anyone going to supermax lost the right to be called human when they committed their horrific crime, Supermax prisons are designed entirely around the idea of psychological punishment and I'm completely fine with that.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2013 18:33
|
|
|
Justin Godscock posted:Supermax is really defined as being a "control" type prison designed to house inmates who are way too violent to be in gen pop or are just way too good at coordinating criminal activity inside and out of prison. If anyone gets a chance, read up on the inmate list and you'll see a whole lot of people that just plain cannot contact society anymore. I really don't understand how Norway manages to do it with "max security" prisons that look like a cramped dorm room while we decide that we need to destroy someone psychologically until they are dead.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2013 18:34
|
|
|
Crashbee posted:I'm surprised no-one's mentioned Four Lions in this context, the UK black comedy about four terrorists who plot to blow up the London marathon. I was going to but it was too soon even for SA standards when I thought of it. That and I couldn't find the explosion clips from the marathon.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2013 18:34
|
|
|
Wildlife Analysis posted:This kind of thinking makes you just as bad as the people you are accusing of being inhuman. Actually, I think killing people and wounding hundreds of others is pretty much objectively worse than having mean feelings / "bad" opinions by any reasonable metric, so it's most certainly not "just as bad".
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2013 18:35
|
|
|
Wildlife Analysis posted:The point of justice is to serve society and to do so humanely. This is your opinion and others disagree.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2013 18:35
|
|
|
Wildlife Analysis posted:I really don't understand how Norway manages to do it with "max security" prisons that look like a cramped dorm room while we decide that we need to destroy someone psychologically until they are dead. In a somewhat comical answer: You are the land of the free. This is what too much freedom does to you.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2013 18:35
|
|
|
Sky Shadowing posted:They're doing a ceremony before the Red Sox game right now- coverage is on ESPN, for anyone interested. "This is our loving city." - David Ortiz
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2013 18:35
|
|
|
Wildlife Analysis posted:I really don't understand how Norway manages to do it with "max security" prisons that look like a cramped dorm room while we decide that we need to destroy someone psychologically until they are dead. It was pretty cool when Brevik said "I did this in part because I know you will execute me and prove that you are killers too" and Norway said "nope".
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2013 18:35
|
|
|
Pardon me for asking an unpopular question, but besides the fact he was a) at the Boston marathon and b) carrying a backpack that he put down (or was that his brother?) in the absence of a confession what is going to prove without doubt that he was one of the bombers? I'm genuinely not being facetious, and whilst I know the probability of him being responsible tends towards 100% there is that niggling feeling in the back of my head that in the whirlwind of emotion we've lost sight of the fact that he is, and was during the chase, "just" a suspect, albeit a very strong one. The media narrative certainly was that he was already guilty, as indeed the contents of others have betrayed this belief. I guess his involvement (or at least proximity) in the MIT shooting, together with his shootout before capture (was this shown? I've heard it says he traded fire with the Police but didn't see the live footage to confirm it for myself) is enough to warrant the response and attitude we have towards him. I guess what I'm saying is I really hope it is possible to prove that this guy was one of two bombers that perpetrated the Boston bombing, with or without a confession, and with no one else out there involved, because it's a chilling thought to imagine that even if the probability of not being involved is vanishingly small, it's still there and he is still just a suspect until it goes to court.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2013 18:36
|
|
|
Sky Shadowing posted:They're doing a ceremony before the Red Sox game right now- coverage is on ESPN, for anyone interested. They just showed it on CNN with the headline "Home Town Cheers Home Team". 
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2013 18:36
|
|
|
the black husserl posted:Supermax prisons are designed to mentally torture people? I thought they were designed for maximum security. Jesus, we're so far gone. It's not so much that they are designed to mentally torture people as they are designed to punish to the criminal. A lot of the psychological aspect comes from the fact that the prisoner is not allowed human contact, lights are always on, no entertainment, has a very slim window pointed to the sky, and is in a room of stainless steel and poured concrete. Most of the psychological stuff is from the prisoner being forced to live within himself. The psychological aspect is a side effect of designing the prison for ultra security. The more security you have, the more it will break a prisoner down. Supermax prisons are not necessarily designed to psychologically or mentally torture, they just do it as side effect of having insane security features.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2013 18:36
|
|
|
Burning Mustache posted:Actually, I think killing people and wounding hundreds of others is pretty much objectively worse than having mean feelings / "bad" opinions by any reasonable metric, so it's most certainly not "just as bad". Advocating psychological torture for thousands of people with varying crimes makes you just as bad as the people who commit those crimes, yes. vaginal culture posted:This is your opinion and others disagree. shut up please respond
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2013 18:37
|
|
|
Durzel posted:Pardon me for asking an unpopular question, but besides the fact he was a) at the Boston marathon and b) carrying a backpack that he put down (or was that his brother?) in the absence of a confession what is going to prove without doubt that he was one of the bombers? Carrying/putting down the backpack that contained the second bomb seems pretty direct evidence.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2013 18:37
|
|
|
Sky Shadowing posted:They're doing a ceremony before the Red Sox game right now- coverage is on ESPN, for anyone interested. The game is also available for free today here: http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?topic_id=13103834&c_id=BOS&content_id=26415345 And yes, having Ortiz give a speech before the game was the best idea.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2013 18:38
|
|
|
Paulocaust posted:They just showed it on CNN with the headline "Home Town Cheers Home Team". Never change, CNN. Actually please do. You're terrible, just terrible.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2013 18:38
|
|
|
Would it be equally inhumane to try to turn these people against their ideologies? I know that's not an easy thing by any means but its not torture and not death.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2013 18:38
|
|
|
gently caress This Puzzle posted:"This is our loving city." - David Ortiz Please tell me the censors on ESPN missed this.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2013 18:39
|
|
|
They sure missed it on NESN.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2013 18:39
|
|
|
ryan8723 posted:It's not so much that they are designed to mentally torture people as they are designed to punish to the criminal. A lot of the psychological aspect comes from the fact that the prisoner is not allowed human contact, lights are always on, no entertainment, has a very slim window pointed to the sky, and is in a room of stainless steel and poured concrete. Most of the psychological stuff is from the prisoner being forced to live within himself. This is the most mealy-mouthed apologetic crap I have ever heard. Said with the utmost respect, of course.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2013 18:39
|
|
|
Wildlife Analysis posted:Advocating psychological torture for thousands of people with varying crimes makes you just as bad as the people who commit those crimes, yes. Yeah, no. E: I mean, sure, I believe that this is genuinely your opinion but if you go around and poll the entire population on whether advocating that people like these marathon bombers deserve whatever conditions they face in a supermax prison is "just as bad" as the actions these two have commited, I would assume you'd find that the very vast majority would disagree, for good reason in my opinion.Hence why I said, by any reasonable metric, killing people and injuring hundreds of others absolutely is worse and not "just as bad" as merely holding an opinion on prison conditions. And frankly, I personally find that it's an insult to the victims of the crimes of these fuckheads. Burning Mustache fucked around with this message at 18:46 on Apr 20, 2013 |
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2013 18:39
|
|
|
Shaocaholica posted:Would it be equally inhumane to try to turn these people against their ideologies? I know that's not an easy thing by any means but its not torture and not death. The gently caress are you talking about?
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2013 18:39
|
|
|
vaginal culture posted:This is your opinion and others disagree. This is not a matter of opinion and the fact that others disagree does not mean they have a legitimate view worthy of respect.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2013 18:40
|
|
|
Durzel posted:Pardon me for asking an unpopular question, but besides the fact he was a) at the Boston marathon and b) carrying a backpack that he put down (or was that his brother?) in the absence of a confession what is going to prove without doubt that he was one of the bombers? Did you see the picture of him putting down a backpack directly behind the kid that was killed? With a loving smirk on his face.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2013 18:40
|
|
|
Durzel posted:Pardon me for asking an unpopular question, but besides the fact he was a) at the Boston marathon and b) carrying a backpack that he put down (or was that his brother?) in the absence of a confession what is going to prove without doubt that he was one of the bombers? No, it's a good question and it's good understanding of the legal process that's going to happen. The FBI needs either footage of the duo planting the bombs and of them going off or at the very least an ironclad confession in order for the defence not to poke a bunch of reasonable doubt. I truly believe this guy will confess because his life is really over one way or another. Edit: Apparently they do have footage of the bombs being planted, ah, I did not see that development.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2013 18:40
|
|
|
Burning Mustache posted:Yeah, no. Yeah, yeah.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2013 18:40
|
|
|
I have a theory. I stress that this is nothing more than speculation based on the facts gathered in http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/04/19/us/boston-marathon-manhunt.html?_r=0. *** The brothers are walking along Vassar St, which is a quiet road along the edge of MIT's campus not too far from where they lived. At around the same time the 7/11 in Tech Square is robbed. The police station is on the opposite end of Vassar St from Tech Square. Collier either responds to the robbery or drives to set up a defensive position near Stata. They see him, panic, and open fire, shooting him. Mortally wounded, Collier drove up the ramp and close to Stata. The brothers take off in the opposite direction, crossing Main St into the maze of East Cambridge, where they carjack a Mercedes on Third St. They drive north back to their apartment and load up their guns and explosives. From Norfolk they drove along Western Ave towards Memorial Drive. Where those two roads intersect there is the shell gas station where they dropped off the dude whose car they stole. At that time, BPD was reporting a carjacking *at* the Shell, but that's where it was *reported.* This is where the widely-circulated image of White Hat was taken, by the way - not at a 7/11, but at the Shell where they ditched the guy.  They drove along either Memorial Drive or Soldiers Field Road until they arrived in Watertown Square. I had taken the same route home from MIT 30 minutes earlier, and they may have come to Watertown for the same reasons: because it's very easy to get on either I-90, on I-95, or on north on Rt 3 from here, giving them a lot of options. There, they parked in front of my house to use the ATM at the Bank of America in Watertown Square at 11:18. Here's where it gets a little fuzzy. By the time I tuned in to the police scanner, all of the action was on Mt. Auburn st, just up the road from the ATM. I know the cops were driving along Memorial, but I'm not sure if they saw the brothers on Memorial, or if they found them on Mt. Auburn. In any case, at some point they exchanged fire near Grove St and Mt Auburn and then drove deeper into East Watertown, where they held their last stand around Dexter / Spruce St. Black Hat was killed, and White Hat fled first by car and then by foot, eventually hiding in the boat near the edge of the perimeter near Franklin St.  Again, I have no idea whether or not this is true. I hesitated posting it because I don't want to contribute to fanfiction. But I'm trying to piece together their odd paths and behavior, which don't make that much sense from a "random mayhem" angle, but could make sense as a series of contingencies of two people panicking and trying to escape. Petey fucked around with this message at 18:52 on Apr 20, 2013 |
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2013 18:40
|
|
|
Syllogism posted:Even people convicted of crimes such as espionage? Probably also arguable in the case of people like Richard Lee McNair. Espionage can indirectly cause the deaths of large amounts of people, so no it's not just some unimportant crime. Also, spies are usually experts at human interaction, which means those are the last kind of people you want in a normal prison.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2013 18:40
|
|
|
ryan8723 posted:It's not so much that they are designed to mentally torture people as they are designed to punish to the criminal. A lot of the psychological aspect comes from the fact that the prisoner is not allowed human contact, lights are always on, no entertainment, has a very slim window pointed to the sky, and is in a room of stainless steel and poured concrete. Most of the psychological stuff is from the prisoner being forced to live within himself. I dunno, if I thought America was super evil than sitting in its most horrific prison would probably just keep that fire going. I'm sure the experts know what they're doing though. Shaocaholica posted:Would it be equally inhumane to try to turn these people against their ideologies? I know that's not an easy thing by any means but its not torture and not death. Do we know anything about the ideology of the surviving suspect? Anything at all concrete?
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2013 18:40
|
|
|
Wildlife Analysis posted:Advocating psychological torture for thousands of people with varying crimes makes you just as bad as the people who commit those crimes, yes. As much as I agree with you for the most part on the general issues with prisons, this is completely wrong.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2013 18:41
|
|
|
ryan8723 posted:Espionage can indirectly cause the deaths of large amounts of people, so no it's not just some unimportant crime. Also, spies are usually experts at human interaction, which means those are the last kind of people you want in a normal prison.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2013 18:41
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 29, 2024 17:01 |
|
|
Maybe unlike some goons I can remember clearly how the US was before 9/11 and how it all sort of went downhill from there and how that attack gave even other countries in the world a carte blanche to crush some inconvenient civil liberties. My first reaction to the boston bombing was actually "How much more batshit insane is the US gonna get this time as a result?". I gues the answer is "quite a bit". The only thing I really worry about at this point is how this is gonna get used by different goverments to pull even more bullshit on their citizens.
Police Automaton fucked around with this message at 18:44 on Apr 20, 2013 |
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2013 18:41
|
|