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They're shooting for 150+ hours of leveling (if you know what you're doing) so expect getting to max level to take quite a while.
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Apr 23, 2013 02:40
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Wheeee posted:I don't think anyone's going to want to run this (Admittedly pretty) dungeon that was just linked after they've already run it and the handful of other dungeons available dozens of times each. People do this in every MMO even when the dungeons mostly suck and there is no LFG tool like there is here. I wouldn't worry about that.
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Apr 23, 2013 02:43
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Pawl posted:They're shooting for 150+ hours of leveling (if you know what you're doing) so expect getting to max level to take quite a while. That's like a week.
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Apr 23, 2013 03:10
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Normal Adult Human posted:That's like a week. Yes, but it's a long time for the normals. Most gamers wouldn't put 150 hours into a game they played over the span of year.
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Apr 23, 2013 03:17
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CLAM DOWN posted:People do this in every MMO even when the dungeons mostly suck and there is no LFG tool like there is here. I wouldn't worry about that. People still pay for TOR and Conan; I'm less concerned about subscriber retention than I am about the inherent quality of the gameplay experience. Pawl posted:They're shooting for 150+ hours of leveling (if you know what you're doing) so expect getting to max level to take quite a while. Unless they implement an utterly brutal experience curve people are going to be max level within a couple days of release if not sooner. I think a better question would be how they intend to ensure that content does not become obsolete as quickly as it did in WoW. In Everquest, for example, there were still desirable items to be found in mid-level dungeons when you were maxed at 50 and then in the first (And even second) expansion there were items from the base level 50 end-game dungeons/raids which were desired by players. In terms of content longevity and design Everquest still trumps most every MMO on the market and while modern server populations and player expectations won't allow for things like non-instanced raids/dungeons I would hope that some day another developer figures out that compressing both player and item power down while using a smaller number of hand-crafted items in place of randomized poo poo can in fact lead to much greater content utilization. Years after release I still farmed items from Guk, a release day dungeon, because it was still useful and valuable. In WoW (And most other modern MMOs) as soon as an ilevel tier opens up to you via leveling or raid progression everything beneath it is obsolete.
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Apr 23, 2013 03:17
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Bloody Hedgehog posted:Yes, but it's a long time for the normals. Most gamers wouldn't put 150 hours into a game they played over the span of year. No joke, that's about half a year's time for me at this point. But I wouldn't tolerate a game that couldn't give me value faster than that. I barely have tolerance for poo poo I like that takes longer than a couple hours to get into. Too much stuff to do outside gaming. MMOs really need to learn some lessons about drop in fun. And not bullshit ones like 'drop in every day for 30-45 mins for 2 months and you'll earn a rep reward'.
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Apr 23, 2013 03:21
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Wheeee posted:Given that this game looks more or less like WoW+ I wonder what the developer's plans (If any) are to deal with how rapidly players mow through content and become bored with it. Jeremy Gaffney, Wildstar executive producer posted:Have predominantly theme park type content early in the game - and then hook more and more sandbox elements as you level up.
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Apr 23, 2013 03:25
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grrarg posted:The executive producer made a longass post about the old "themepark vs. sandbox" MMO debate on Reddit. It's worth a read. WildStar - cause games are like hard.
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Apr 23, 2013 03:33
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Normal Adult Human posted:That's like a week. Do you play 20+ hours a day? What the hell?
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Apr 23, 2013 07:10
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Ghost of Eazy E posted:Do you play 20+ hours a day? What the hell? Exactly what I thought. And after you've reached the level cap you can still farm for furniture and then throw a party. In all seriousness though, I wouldn't worry. It seems like they know what they're doing, as you can tell from their interviews. They're completely honest about the whole game.
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Apr 23, 2013 07:26
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I will be happy as long as the leveling takes so much time that the idiots who always run streams with "no sleep till max level" end up collapsing out of their chair.
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Apr 23, 2013 07:28
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While this game seems promising and it's the next one that I'll actually try out, I'm a jaded mmo veteran and I'll believe it when I loving see it. Mmo devs are are the new used car salesmen.
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Apr 23, 2013 07:39
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Lyer posted:While this game seems promising and it's the next one that I'll actually try out, I'm a jaded mmo veteran and I'll believe it when I loving see it. Mmo devs are are the new used car salesmen. True indeed, but the fact that they're so honest about development and the fact that even TotalBiscuit seemed pleased with it gives me some faith. Not a lot of companies are that open about everything.
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Apr 23, 2013 07:44
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Flumbooze posted:TotalBiscuit That idiot is hardly a seal of quality. As burned out as I am on this entire genre, especially the WoW-clones, I'm watching Wildstar. If it does what it does as well as the developers are promising it'll probably scratch the generic MMO itch a lot of us have. It doesn't appear to do anything particular new or worthy of note, but everything about it just feels competent.
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Apr 23, 2013 09:06
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Wheeee posted:That idiot is hardly a seal of quality. He's good to know wether a game is broken or not. Not to know the content's quality. And he showed some amazing gameplay from PAX, the game looked really good. Spider2414 fucked around with this message at 13:30 on Apr 23, 2013 |
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Apr 23, 2013 13:11
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Flumbooze posted:He's good to know wether a game is broken or not. Not to know the content's quality. And he showed some amazing gameplay from PAX, the game looked really good. So what you're saying is we can't believe anything in TotalBiscuit's PAX video? Sounds about right. The man is really good at not discussing the worst parts of the games he's playing.
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Apr 23, 2013 15:59
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Zasraik posted:So what you're saying is we can't believe anything in TotalBiscuit's PAX video? Sounds about right. The man is really good at not discussing the worst parts of the games he's playing. Like he did with The WarZ and the last 'The Walking Dead'-game?  He's less biased than most of the lovely review-sites out there.And even if you do not like his opinion, he often receives/is allowed to record very good content and I had a good view of how WildStar plays. Wether he likes it or not doesn't really matter to me, but it gives me a small indication. That said, I try to watch every single piece of content that's released. It gives you a much better view than focussing on one certain source. Spider2414 fucked around with this message at 16:42 on Apr 23, 2013 |
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Apr 23, 2013 16:16
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Flumbooze posted:Like he did with The WarZ and the last 'The Walking Dead'-game? Sorry for the derail, but holy poo poo was that walking dead game awful. Anyone know when the next round of beta's go out? They were saying every 5 weeks, but I'm impatient.
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Apr 23, 2013 16:51
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sTickHead posted:Sorry for the derail, but holy poo poo was that walking dead game awful. quote:A representative of Carbine Studios emailed us saying, "We have already seen a phenomenal response from our fans and are looking to continually add thousands of players throughout closed beta test 1 to come check out the great content we've been talking about for months. Our closed beta testing process is not a typical weekend event, but instead it will last for several weeks, giving players ample time to come in and check out the factions, races and classes they may choose to play when WildStar launches later this year." http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/04/10/wildstar-begins-beta-testing/ The article is 12 days old, but I think this implies that they're continually sending beta keys out to players and that it will still last for a few weeks. Where did you read the 'every 5 weeks'?
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Apr 23, 2013 16:57
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Right now I am cautiously optimistic. I have been disappointed in too many games in the past to really get excited about Wildstar, but I will definitely be following the entire development process. Which is more than I have been able to do for any MMO in recent memory. I really like the ideas they have been throwing around, but I think everyone is right in their assertions that they aren't really adding anything truly unique to the current formula. Maybe they will find the right mix though, I certainly hope so.
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Apr 23, 2013 17:00
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sTickHead posted:Sorry for the derail, but holy poo poo was that walking dead game awful. Wait, are you guys talking about the Telltale Walking Dead games? If so,  .
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Apr 23, 2013 17:57
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Doh004 posted:Wait, are you guys talking about the Telltale Walking Dead games? If so, No.
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Apr 23, 2013 18:03
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Oh god, that looks horrific. I had no idea that existed. My apologies for the frog out.
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Apr 23, 2013 18:07
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As much as I'm interested in this, my personal MMO rule applies: I'll believe it when I see it live on a post-launch server. It's easy to make intriguing claims, but making them work is a whole other ballgame. Not that I think they're trying to snow people, but push all too often comes to shove when there's complex concepts involved. Case in point, the rendering engine mentioned earlier in the thread.
Bieeanshee fucked around with this message at 19:57 on Apr 23, 2013 |
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Apr 23, 2013 19:54
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Bieeardo posted:As much as I'm interested in this, my personal MMO rule applies: I'll believe it when I see it live on a post-launch server. It's easy to make intriguing claims, but making them work is a whole other ballgame. Not that I think they're trying to snow people, but push all too often comes to shove when there's complex concepts involved. Case in point, the rendering engine mentioned earlier in the thread. Indeed. I'm not worried about the content, end-game, etc. but there are two things that I'm 'fearing for'. The first one would be free-to-play. Obviously we have the pay to win problem, but even if it was purely cosmetic, I don't want it. I want to pay for my game and get the full experience and not have to spend money so I look decent, so I get decent furniture for my house, etc. The second one is performance. The game looks amazing and seems to run smooth on their PC's but it could be a problem for me. For example, WvW in GW2 was terrible for me when there were 50 men on the screen at the same time0 It'd freeze for a couple of seconds and then show another frame.
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Apr 23, 2013 20:38
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Flumbooze posted:The first one would be free-to-play. Obviously we have the pay to win problem, but even if it was purely cosmetic, I don't want it. I want to pay for my game and get the full experience and not have to spend money so I look decent, so I get decent furniture for my house, etc. Well you won't get this. No matter what MMO you try. If it's a subscription, you pay. It's just that you're budgeted to the sub price per month. Nobody gets all the content. That's what 'rare' means. That's what a rep grind is. You pay. You might just pay free time if it's like GW2 or defiance where you pay up front. If you pay a sub, the time is money on top of already being worth something. You're asking for a game that's like Unreal Tournament, where you crack open the box, and you have access to all levels and all weapons and can play with anyone in the world immediately, and use mods, and new maps freely. poo poo, you don't even get access to all the content for paying up front from *single player* games anymore half the time. I'm looking at my Forza Horizon over there, and it won't let me drive poo poo until I make imaginary money from driving so I can drive more and make more imaginary money to drive more. The gently caress game, I am only playing you to drive imaginary cars on imaginary roads, why do I have to 'earn' anything. When I buy the drat maserati or whatever, you still make me drive the volkswagen during the volkswagen challenge race, so what is this 'buy' bullshit? The only two things that are certain is death and micropayments.
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Apr 23, 2013 20:57
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TheCosmicMuffet posted:Well you won't get this. No matter what MMO you try. Where did I say I don't want to spend some time and/or put effort into gaining my items? Obviously I have to spend time to get these items, because that's content and in fact I pay for that content (if the game works with a subscription fee.) I feel like spending time and doing your best to win a certain special item is much more special and rewarding (and the item is much more 'rare' as well) than paying €5 for a skin, gear, mount, etc. I don't want this to be Unreal Tournament at all, it would suck. I love progression, I hate paying to progress more easily.
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Apr 23, 2013 21:05
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Flumbooze posted:Where did I say I don't want to spend some time and/or put effort into gaining my items? Obviously I have to spend time to get these items, because that's content and in fact I pay for that content (if the game works with a subscription fee.) I feel like spending time and doing your best to win a certain special item is much more special and rewarding (and the item is much more 'rare' as well) than paying €5 for a skin, gear, mount, etc. Pretty much every new MMO these days disagrees with you and I'm pretty happy for that. I don't have the time to spend on playing videogames like I used to and it's really nice I can throw down some money for cash store items so I can still look cool. You're hoping for an MMO from 10 years ago, F2P/B2P/microtransactions are the present and the future so get used to it!
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Apr 23, 2013 21:16
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CLAM DOWN posted:F2P/B2P/microtransactions are the present and the future so get used to it! Yep. They know from WoW's horsie experiment that people are willing to pay stupid amounts of money for cosmetic crap, mounts and boosts. No developer in their right mind is going to release an MMO these days without some kind of optional micro-transactions whether it's f2p, b2p or a subscription game.
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Apr 23, 2013 21:29
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Flumbooze posted:I hate paying to progress more easily. Others do not so I guess you can just not pay for X, Y or Z if you don't want to? Cash shops are basically going to be around for awhile now since as the average gamer is getting older developers/publishers have learned that what they can't get with time in game they are willing to spend their, hopefully, disposable income on getting. As for your performance issue, they have said they are trying to make it accessible to as many systems as possible but  Isn't cheap and there comes a time where you need to spend money on your hobby.
BadLlama fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Apr 23, 2013 |
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Apr 23, 2013 21:37
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Grimby posted:Yep. They know from WoW's horsie experiment that people are willing to pay stupid amounts of money for cosmetic crap, mounts and boosts. No developer in their right mind is going to release an MMO these days without some kind of optional micro-transactions whether it's f2p, b2p or a subscription game. We were all already willing to pay for them. Remember what it took to get a netherdrake? A frost saber? Devoting your playtime to a grind that could often take a month or more on its own. Later with rep reward based grinds the time was *guaranteed* to be *at least* a month or more in some cases to get your brown griffin or whatever. Functionally you aren't paying any more. You're actually buying the silly thing *and* getting free time refunded that you'd have had to spend to do it the lovely old fashioned way. Every time someone talks about effort and a feeling of accomplishment I feel like I'm having some marathon addict tell me how great marathoning is. 'No you don't understand, the *feeling* you get when you train up to a marathon is just amazing--I want that feeling' no. Yeah. I get it. Good for you. I want to be able to buy a bicycle and cover the same distance faster with less effort and still get the fun of being outdoors/getting to whatever the destination is. Or, skiing. You want to hike up a mountain so you can 'earn' your ski run, more power to you. I want a chairlift. I don't care if it costs extra and takes away the self respect I might have if I just climbed the hill each time. I'm more interested in skiing. If I want to hike, I'll hike. For the porpoises of this analogy, I want to ski. ski and not hike. Also I think forcing people to go on long hikes by repeatedly saying 'we're almost there' and feeding them cookies one at a time as they pass set points in the trail is weird. Either the hiking is fun and people want to do it, or not. Someone shouldn't have to hike just to get cookies. There should be a plate of cookies for them.
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Apr 23, 2013 21:57
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The person who hikes up the mountain and skis down is going to enjoy his trip more than the person who just uses the chair lift. They will both enjoy their trip more than the guy who stays home and spends fifty hours getting ego gear. The guy who spent fifty hours getting ego gear will still enjoy that gear more than the guy who just buys it from ncsoft. Why not instead of hiking up a mountain and skiing back down you just play videogames all day in order to maximize your shallow meaningless achievement potential? Normal Adult Human fucked around with this message at 22:21 on Apr 23, 2013 |
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Apr 23, 2013 22:15
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CLAM DOWN posted:Pretty much every new MMO these days disagrees with you and I'm pretty happy for that. I don't have the time to spend on playing videogames like I used to and it's really nice I can throw down some money for cash store items so I can still look cool. You're hoping for an MMO from 10 years ago, F2P/B2P/microtransactions are the present and the future so get used to it! But there were people back then as well that didn't have the time to spend on video games just like there are people now that do have the time. Just because you don't have the time to get an item in a week (or in whatever time you want it) doesn't mean you should be able to pay for it. Even if there is a shop it shouldn't replace the epic items that require dedication. If it does, why bother having dungeon and raid drops then?
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Apr 23, 2013 22:47
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Hopefully, games bother having those things because they are fun to do. If the game is actually fun, you'll do those things even if you can (maybe even if you did) just buy the items out of the cash shop. If chasing pixel carrots is the sole source of enjoyment in the game you're playing, you're playing a poo poo game.
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Apr 23, 2013 22:50
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Probad posted:Hopefully, games bother having those things because they are fun to do. If the game is actually fun, you'll do those things even if you can (maybe even if you did) just buy the items out of the cash shop. If chasing pixel carrots is the sole source of enjoyment in the game you're playing, you're playing a poo poo game. True indeed, but it's no fun showing off your armour that you've played a whole week for, only to see 20 other people wearing the same armour, bought off an in-game store.
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Apr 23, 2013 22:56
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Flumbooze posted:But there were people back then as well that didn't have the time to spend on video games just like there are people now that do have the time. Just because you don't have the time to get an item in a week (or in whatever time you want it) doesn't mean you should be able to pay for it. I'm not advocating being able to buy a full set of epic armour or something, I'm not remotely advocating "pay-to-win". Devs have accepted that pay-to-win doesn't work and they don't really do that very much. Have you played any other current MMOs? Give stuff like GW2 a try, LOTRO, even STO. That's the kind of cash shop that people ran screaming from 10 years ago but is accepted as the norm now and arguably preferred. You're fighting against the idea of a cash shop when it's basically a given, it's a lost cause. It's not original WoW era circa 2004 anymore. Elitism based on how many hours you had in a week to kill a virtual dragon isn't the big thing these days. Paying for convenience happens in pretty much every game, and I'm sure it will in this one And if Wildstar adds a cash shop for stuff like housing items and mounts and cosmetic stuff, I (and many others) will be all over that and they will have a licence to print money.
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Apr 23, 2013 23:00
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And all three of those games are really repetitive, especially GW2. You can tell it's all for the casuals now. A shame. EDIT: Don't take me wrong. I can only put about 2 hours, 3 hours max a day in these games. But I don't need to have everything right at the start and actually want to put some effort into it. Not because of satisfaction, but because it gives me a goal and gives value to what you do. Spider2414 fucked around with this message at 23:13 on Apr 23, 2013 |
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Apr 23, 2013 23:08
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GW2's cash shop is a godawful mess and you know it. Goons think that a f2p mmo can survive on cosmetic only items and I haven't seen it, GW2 survived on a horrible gold grind and other f2p's just use random loot boxes to soak people. I can understand the desire for a sub game that doesn't have any microtransaction nonsense. Ideally a game could offer both models for people.
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Apr 23, 2013 23:09
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Eltoasto posted:GW2's cash shop is a godawful mess and you know it. Goons think that a f2p mmo can survive on cosmetic only items and I haven't seen it, GW2 survived on a horrible gold grind and other f2p's just use random loot boxes to soak people. I can understand the desire for a sub game that doesn't have any microtransaction nonsense. Ideally a game could offer both models for people. Yeah I never said it was good, obviously I know it all too well, I was just trying to give examples of cash shops in modern MMOs. Flumbooze posted:And all three of those games are really repetitive, especially GW2. You can tell it's all for the casuals now. A shame. So you just don't think casual players deserve good/fun rewards then?
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Apr 23, 2013 23:11
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Don't take me wrong. I can only put about 2 hours, 3 hours max a day in these games. But I don't need to have everything right at the start and actually want to put some effort into it. Not because of satisfaction,but because it gives me a goal and gives value to what you do
Spider2414 fucked around with this message at 23:18 on Apr 23, 2013 |
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Apr 23, 2013 23:15
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