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luncheon meat posted:It's so so dumb though. They're loving over the developers and the console owners every year. Why would I bother writing a game for the OILYAUPANDWRASSLEYA if I know that system is going to be obsolete and my game will look like poo poo compared to the next wave of games? How is that different than the phone market? I think you're overvaluing graphical fidelity. "Better hardware/games will be out next year that overshadows our stuff" doesn't seem to be an insurmountable obstacle there. I guess if your game's visual style consists of nothing but "check out these cutting edge graphics!" then it would be hurt by the yearly updates. But someone who's making a game like that for the OUYA is a loving idiot anyway. I think your whole premise is silly. Good art isn't defined by polycount or number of shaders, it's defined by good art. If your game looks like poo poo compared to stuff that comes out just a year afterwards, then it always looked like poo poo. Games with a solid visual style will still look good even when games with more advanced graphics come out. Mercenary Kings, Legend of Dungeon, Broken Age, Silent Enemy, Freedom Planet, Ittle Dew, The Other Brothers, Penumbear, Rival Threads, Shadowrun Online, Talbot's Odyssey, Volgarr - none of these are games that will be impacted by this issue. New games won't make them "look like poo poo". I mean, I see your point. A game designed to have as many graphicses as possible in generic realistic style, like Shadowgun, won't look like poo poo compared to next year's games; but it'll have an unavoidable competitive disadvantage. Them's the breaks if you choose to substitute genuine art direction with flashy graphics. Shadowgun will run into this problem; Cloudbase Prime won't.
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Apr 23, 2013 12:14
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XboxPants posted:How is that different than the phone market? What's the point in upgrading the OUYA if there's not going to be any games coming out that'll make the previous version completely obsolete? Either you need more power or you don't - if you do, the old model is worthless to you, so your tiny market is even smaller.
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Apr 23, 2013 12:37
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XboxPants posted:How is that different than the phone market? It's not wireless and you can't phone people?
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Apr 23, 2013 12:39
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peter gabriel posted:It's not wireless and you can't phone people? I hope somebody gets an Ouya and does a SIIIIIIDETALKIN' photo with it.
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Apr 23, 2013 12:48
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I'm actually with the pants on this one. With that logic no one should ever make an iPhone game, which is obviously incorrect. The hardware revision shouldn't matter much for smart devs. In the back of their heads they should be coding to allow future scalability to improve the game for beefier hardware. It's not hard to do things like "oh the OUYA got an update, we can increase draw distance, number of objects, or polygon counts" etc. I think you're all silly for even talking about a hardware revision when the company hasn't been able to reliably ship out their first model.
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Apr 23, 2013 13:03
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The Dave posted:I'm actually with the pants on this one. With that logic no one should ever make an iPhone game, which is obviously incorrect. That too. Dex posted:What's the point in upgrading the OUYA if there's not going to be any games coming out that'll make the previous version completely obsolete? Either you need more power or you don't - if you do, the old model is worthless to you, so your tiny market is even smaller. You're approaching this from the wrong angle. The reason the OUYA needs to upgrade every year isn't really because users or developers need more power. That's a nice benefit, but if it that was the only reason OUYA wouldn't need to do it. They only need to do it in order to stay competitive with other devices. A Tegra 4 OUYA doesn't make a Tegra 3 OUYA "completely obsolete", it's just better. Someone can release an OUYA-like device next year that's exactly like OUYA in every way, but better because it has a Tegra-4 level chip. At that point, OUYA has to release a new model to stay competitive. Tell me I'm wrong. (also, give it a rest with the black and white, catastrophic "completely obsolete" "totally worthless" talk)
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Apr 23, 2013 13:07
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So if in a year someone can make an identical console for much cheaper, or the same features for the same price, why would I buy an Ouya? Is it the controllers with bits that fall off and break? Is it the developers who have failed to ship more than 1% of their sales? Which of these features am I buying into with my Ouya purchase specifically?
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Apr 23, 2013 13:11
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Are we forgetting that this is supposed to be a games console? If I get a new phone and I can't play "poo poo Timewaster 3" it's no big deal because I can still make phone calls and send texts. If I get a games console and can't play games on it, that's a problem.
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Apr 23, 2013 13:15
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crowfeathers posted:So if in a year someone can make an identical console for much cheaper, or the same features for the same price, why would I buy an Ouya? Is it the controllers with bits that fall off and break? Is it the developers who have failed to ship more than 1% of their sales? Which of these features am I buying into with my Ouya purchase specifically? I've been missing the insanity of this thread so maybe this was from a past discussion I missed. But what's your point? Who's arguing against that. Obviously you should go with a better product, with better promise and the same price. I don't think pants or aweful would argue against that. Hey you should get value for your money, obviously.
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Apr 23, 2013 13:16
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XboxPants posted:A Tegra 4 OUYA doesn't make a Tegra 3 OUYA "completely obsolete", it's just better. Someone can release an OUYA-like device next year that's exactly like OUYA in every way, but better because it has a Tegra-4 level chip. At that point, OUYA has to release a new model to stay competitive. Did you seriously crib "OUYA-like device" from the Tegra 4 whitepaper I posted, because props if you did. If something runs just fine on Tegra 3, what makes the Tegra 4 better? There's a bunch of TegraZone games that have revealed no intention of porting to the OUYA, despite being optimised for the hardware it's using, and you think changing up the hardware every year is going to somehow keep the OUYA competitive without hurting the existing market and not be a clusterfuck? Basically, what's the point in using more expensive hardware if all the games are going to run fine on the older hardware? This is a console that plays mobile phone games here, we're not talking whatever the current day Crysis is. Most of the people I know who upgrade their phones on the regular get a discount because of their contracts, plus new phones get new features - the OUYA doesn't have either of those going for it. You're literally buying it to play games because you can't or won't connect your phone to the TV. XboxPants posted:(also, give it a rest with the black and white, catastrophic "completely obsolete" "totally worthless" talk) Give it a rest with the unpaid-shilling-looking-to-upgrade-to-paid-shilling, and then maybe we can talk terms.
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Apr 23, 2013 13:18
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nexus6 posted:Are we forgetting that this is supposed to be a games console? If I get a new phone and I can't play "poo poo Timewaster 3" it's no big deal because I can still make phone calls and send texts. If I get a games console and can't play games on it, that's a problem. Is your point that your fake game is too old to play or too new? If too old, then yeah OUYA would be 100% retarded to not be backwards compatible with their original catalog. If too new, well that's just the nature of the low price point entry model for the hardware. Best to hope for is games are optimized for the last 2 years of hardware. It's hard though, like if you make an iPhone app you sure as poo poo don't want to support iOS 4.0 or iPhone 3GSes and for the people with them they have to realize they have reallllly outdated hardware.
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Apr 23, 2013 13:21
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So... when the console "launches" in June, how will the store's content be any different? Just like the months leading up to the March release, I'm not seeing any big trailers released or updates from major developers saying that they're going to be releasing their game at the "true" launch date. Won't it still be those ~120 games? (Or maybe it's that the "good" developers just haven't gotten their OUYA yet, just like everyone else! Once they get them, then they can start developing for it and everyone can expect games next year!)
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Apr 23, 2013 13:23
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e: wrong thread, poo poo
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Apr 23, 2013 13:29
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It's clearly the big three forcing all their developers to sign a contract to not develop for the Ouya.
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Apr 23, 2013 13:30
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If developers are treating OUyA just like any other Android device, than it doesn't really matter if OUYA has more than one iteration or not. It's just one more set of hardware to test compatibility with and possibly better resolutions or whatever. Why this is bad for OUYA should be obvious. These games aren't being designed with a controller and television in mind. They're still just generic phonegames.
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Apr 23, 2013 13:36
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Dex posted:Basically, what's the point in using more expensive hardware if all the games are going to run fine on the older hardware? They won't. There will be some new games that either run better on the new hardware, or only run on the new hardware. Most games will run fine on the old hardware, but some won't. Hawken mobile can run on a T4 but not a T3, for instance. Dex posted:Most of the people I know who upgrade their phones on the regular get a discount because of their contracts, plus new phones get new features - the OUYA doesn't have either of those going for it. You're literally buying it to play games because you can't or won't connect your phone to the TV. The "OUYA 2" isn't meant for owners of the current system. They'll be fine. Look to the phone market to see how this plays out; one or two year old phones play 99% of new games just fine. The "OUYA 2" is for new buyers. Look at it this way. If a Tegra 3 OUYA-like device is 10 points of value, then a Tegra 4 OUYA-like device is 11 points. If you already own a Tegra 3 OUYA, there's no reason to shell out another $99 just to get a slightly better system. But if you're a new customer making a purchase decision between two OUYA-likes, you're going to get the better one, even if it's only a slight improvement.
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Apr 23, 2013 13:41
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XboxPants posted:If a Tegra 3 OUYA-like device is 10 points of value, then a Tegra 4 OUYA-like device is 11 points. If you already own a Tegra 3 OUYA, there's no reason to shell out another $99 just to get a slightly better system. But if you're a new customer making a purchase decision between two OUYA-likes, you're going to get the better one, even if it's only a slight improvement. And if I'm a developer trying to decide whether to port my game to a tiny fractured marketplace or not... you know what, nevermind. Yes, it's perfectly cool to assume that just because you're using the same hardware as mobile phones, the upgrade path should be the same. Edit: i can't believe I typed all those words about a hypothetical situation where the OUYA doesn't suck poo poo and die before round 2.
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Apr 23, 2013 13:47
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XboxPants posted:They won't. There will be some new games that either run better on the new hardware, or only run on the new hardware. Most games will run fine on the old hardware, but some won't. Hawken mobile can run on a T4 but not a T3, for instance. An OUYA 2 in my mind is more like the Sega 32X to the Sega Genesis, not like the Xbox 360 to the Xbox. In a situation where the OUYA 2 is the 32X of its generation, there is going to be little reason to actually develop for it. Incremental upgrades like the 32X generally don't offer enough of a benefit for developers, they know that not every person who owned an OUYA 1 will buy one so it makes little sense to optimize for OUYA 2, since that does cost money and time to do so and on top of making an option to downport to OUYA 1 so they'll just make an OUYA 1 game, make sure it loads on OUYA 2 and be done with. It's better to make sure the game works on all OUYA's, so design for OUYA 1. There will be no reason to buy an OUYA 2 as a consumer if games will continue to be optimized for OUYA 1 because unlike cell phones, there is no other reason to upgrade to an OUYA 2 other than to play games on it. Cell phones have all kinds of other features worth upgrading that makes people continue to upgrade them on their 2 year cycles. So games like Hawken can be made to run on Tegra 4 because there will be a large amount of Tegra 4 devices in the wild, the OUYA 2 will end up having a fraction of the market the OUYA 1 has (oh boy, imagine having only a fraction of the OUYA 1 market) making it a worthless investment for developers, just like how developers ignored things like the 32X, Jaguar CD and other such contraptions meant to extend the life of the previous console instead of being its own device in a new ecosystem.
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Apr 23, 2013 13:54
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Can we have a quick reality check here? The oooyah isn't being delivered, the games are 90% poo poo / playable already on other, better devices, the controllers are like something out of a loving Kinder Egg, the potential install base is tiny, the dev forum is silent, the whole thing is being run by a woman who releases finger paintings for sales projection graphs, there is input lag, there is theft of art and assets going on, no exclusives to speak of, nothing of any interest at all happening across the board and people are now beginning to ask for refunds. oooyah 2? SERIOUSLY?
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Apr 23, 2013 13:56
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XboxPants posted:Look at it this way. If a Tegra 3 OUYA-like device is 10 points of value, then a Tegra 4 OUYA-like device is 11 points. Ouya 2: It Goes To Eleven
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Apr 23, 2013 14:20
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Beautiful Ninja posted:An OUYA 2 in my mind is more like the Sega 32X to the Sega Genesis, not like the Xbox 360 to the Xbox. In a situation where the OUYA 2 is the 32X of its generation, there is going to be little reason to actually develop for it. Incremental upgrades like the 32X generally don't offer enough of a benefit for developers, they know that not every person who owned an OUYA 1 will buy one so it makes little sense to optimize for OUYA 2, since that does cost money and time to do so and on top of making an option to downport to OUYA 1 so they'll just make an OUYA 1 game, make sure it loads on OUYA 2 and be done with. It's better to make sure the game works on all OUYA's, so design for OUYA 1. Eh it's really not going to be that dramatic. It's going to be like any other dev making an android game, and beefing it up for OUYA 2 shouldn't be that much work if they have that in mind when they start development. You're right though, there's going to be little allure to upgrade to OUYA 2 without a handful of games that perform way better on the OUYA 2 platform, which we know will never happen.
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Apr 23, 2013 14:21
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Beautiful Ninja posted:OUYA 2 I think you mean OUYB 
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Apr 23, 2013 14:25
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Crackbone posted:I think you mean OUYB Ooooh, do you think they'll update the buttons on the pad?
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Apr 23, 2013 14:39
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peter gabriel posted:Ooooh, do you think they'll update the buttons on the pad? I'd expect Uhrman to say something like "The buttons will be fantastic!"
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Apr 23, 2013 14:49
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peter gabriel posted:Ooooh, do you think they'll update the buttons on the pad? With the level of planning previously exhibited, I'm expecting them to call it "OUYO" and then updating the buttons on...
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Apr 23, 2013 14:49
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XBoxPants, Awful Dreams, I have to say I'm not interested in all your replies regarding game design since it seems we really don't have similar tastes in games at all. But there is one thing I would like your opinion about: If you honestly look back at the previous weeks and remember that despite all the PR bullshit fed to the backers by Julie; no more than 1% of the backers have their console and it's almost end of April. On top of that we also have; people asking refunds because Julie isn't being honest (and it seems she still doesn't get what kind of communication backers expect from her); a made-up chart for shipment projections, all with false data and hypocrisy from the OUYA team; bad reviews regarding both hardware and software and OUYA saying it's too early to review but that the hardware is final version; no new games announcement besides the few initial ones, most being mainly ports of existing games or bad rip-off or even straight stolen assets. Without even discussing the non-existing consoles that might one day be shipped, or the non-existing games that might one day be published, can we agree that the OUYA launch so far is a disaster? I understand that you are not eager to criticize this project given your positions and connections to it, but honestly, between potential customers/players of that thing, are you still as excited as you were months ago?
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Apr 23, 2013 14:51
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gschmidl posted:With the level of planning previously exhibited, I'm expecting them to call it "OUYO" and then updating the buttons on... They should just gently caress the pretence at this point and rename then YOLO or ROFL
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Apr 23, 2013 14:51
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:I'd expect Uhrman to say something like "The buttons will be fantastic!" I can't wait to use all these buttons on my Ouyb games console!
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Apr 23, 2013 14:53
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How does one pronounce Ouyb? ooo-yub? oib? ouie-bee?
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Apr 23, 2013 15:01
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Manslaughter posted:How does one pronounce Ouyb? ooo-yub? oib? ouie-bee? Reep-of
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Apr 23, 2013 15:17
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Manslaughter posted:How does one pronounce Ouyb? ooo-yub? oib? ouie-bee? "Ubi". Followed by a lawsuit.
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Apr 23, 2013 16:22
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Guys, something big is coming! http://www.joystiq.com/2013/04/22/kellee-santiago-on-ouya-wrangling-developers-dubstep quote:Ouya is hoping to make some announcements about its most promising projects in "the upcoming few weeks," Santiago tells me. edit: Note that this is a single throwaway line in the article? OUYAForum.com posted a thread about it. That man is incredibly desperate.
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Apr 23, 2013 16:36
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Here is the dubstep game in question. DubWars. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upyfOgyCdHo quote:Awesome concept; No fire button, just auto-firing to the beat. What an amazing concept. I think I'll create this very game, allow you to use your own tracks, and call it Beat Hazard.
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Apr 23, 2013 16:52
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theflyingorc posted:Guys, something big is coming!
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Apr 23, 2013 16:53
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JazzFlight posted:That sounds like the best way to have great games on your system and not ones that look like a tech demo threw up all over your TV. Man, you don't be knocking the quality that is Barley Break. Barley Break is going to save gaming as we know it. Trying to spin stuff like that as positive has to be depressing.
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Apr 23, 2013 16:58
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What are the chances of OUYA 2 actually happening? Wouldn't that require OUYA 1 to be successful?
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Apr 23, 2013 17:00
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averox posted:Here is the dubstep game in question. DubWars. Put on Atari Teenage Riot, close eyes, win. NSFW - Sweary language https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrD5nny_Mt0
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Apr 23, 2013 17:02
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KimT posted:What are the chances of OUYA 2 actually happening? Wouldn't that require OUYA 1 to be successful? I would say zero. The company probably doesn't have any money and probably will never get any considerable amount. Kickstarter dreamz was their one shot.
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Apr 23, 2013 17:03
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Liquid Penguins posted:I would say zero. The company probably doesn't have any money and probably will never get any considerable amount. Kickstarter dreamz was their one shot. Yeah, even if I strip away all the bullshit from the oyah project and just pair it right down to being a gaming console without any baggage attached I still find hard to see a world where there will be a v2.0 of this, simply because of the small audience due to it's usage of the oyahahh store. If it was an Android device using Google Play who knows? Maybe.
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Apr 23, 2013 17:07
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The Ouya 2, aka the Ouya More, aka OUYAMO, will most likely never exist. Mentioning of hardware updates was only made so Uhrman gives the illusion that the Ouya is a long-term console market, to push current developers and gamers with some sort of confidence boost in a product that a month after release, still has yet to really exist. It can't even get its horse out the door and it's already planning on the next race. The Ouya team is a joke. edit: According to OuyaForums list of Games available in store Fist of Awesome is off the store. Anyone know why? Madcosby fucked around with this message at 17:27 on Apr 23, 2013 |
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Apr 23, 2013 17:19
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