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Kerc Kasha
Apr 18, 2007

Acquire Currency! posted:

Yeah that poo poo is insane! How exactly is that supposed to be fixed? I couldn't tell from that crazy bad translation.

Those commands are incredibly important for modding, and similar commands have existed prior so both in the form of the CBA mod and another BIS version.

There's zero anti cheat in the alpha at the moment as they'd have to update it literally every build and it'd be a waste of developer time at this point.

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Chortles
Dec 29, 2008

Kerc Kasha posted:

Those commands are incredibly important for modding
And therein lies the fundamental problem with the Real Virtuality engines and with Arma.
:negative:

Kerc Kasha posted:

There's zero anti cheat in the alpha at the moment as they'd have to update it literally every build and it'd be a waste of developer time at this point.
Yeah, Dwarden pointed out the lack of anti-cheat a LOT earlier in the alpha, but it's evident that none of the prior hacking incidents are causing the Arma 3 devs or the BattlEye devs to move up anti-cheat any quicker.

EDIT: Here's an earlier reply by Dwarden:

Dwarden posted:

nothing unexpected
the BIS_fnc_MP https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/BIS_fnc_MP
is evolution of TOH's replacement https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/BIS_fnc_MP_(Take_On_Helicopters)
of A2/OA old MPF (multiplayer framework) https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Multiplayer_framework

as Alpha has no security yet, cheating or exploiting ingame scripting and functions is bound to happen

One forums-goer's report:

Ack4orge posted:

I started doing some testing with infected servers and investigating how it actually gets spreading. First of all, by joining the infected server, you don't get infected just by being in the lobby. You actually have to play inside of the server to get infected with it. Then the infected person will join another server.

It's not clear to me whether or not the server will get infected or not just by having the infected player in it. But once they're inside the server, the they will activate it by pressing escape, causing everyone to fly. Only the infected person can activate this by pressing enter. I've already got my friends trying to press enter when I joined played in the server as an infected person, and the hack wasn't activating.

So I'm guessing that the infection doesn't spread until the script is actually activated, or has been activated on the server, which will then infect anyone who joins it. Then the infection can be gotten rid of by restarting the infected game client and the infected server. I'll do some more testing on this right now.

Chortles fucked around with this message at 07:52 on Apr 24, 2013

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!
The non-dev builds aren't updated daily or even weekly. It'd be in their own interest to cut down on the cheating and hacking by now, because it's starting to get ridiculous. ArmA always had a hard time to establish itself against games like Battlefield and all as it was. You don't need to have hacking go rampage even before the game officially hit gold. Most people interested in the game will be buying it now, because it's on the cheap.

Chortles
Dec 29, 2008
Saw a Redditor's theory that BI doesn't actually care because Arma 3 is really just a testbed for RV4 for an eventual VBS3 and thus there'd be a sunk cost in changing from the existing architecture, buuut...

In any case, Dwarden's statements basically match what he said about earlier hacking incidents, "no anti-cheat in alpha, almost to be expected".

Kerc Kasha
Apr 18, 2007

Combat Pretzel posted:

The non-dev builds aren't updated daily or even weekly. It'd be in their own interest to cut down on the cheating and hacking by now, because it's starting to get ridiculous. ArmA always had a hard time to establish itself against games like Battlefield and all as it was. You don't need to have hacking go rampage even before the game officially hit gold. Most people interested in the game will be buying it now, because it's on the cheap.

Arma is also a game that's major playerbase is mostly private servers, where hacking etc isn't an issue (or very easily dealt with)

The company that does VBS is a separate entity to the arma BIS, their engine upgrades aren't compatible with the Arma ones so that 'test bed' nonsense is idiotic. I mean the Arma 2 engine version of VBS was only released very recently while arma 2 has been out for years.

Global execute commands are incredibly important nearly every mission I have uses it at least once - with the more advanced scripts using it several times as it allows the server to act as an 'authority' regarding when and what gets executed on the client.

It also doesn't help that a lot of servers are running with even the most basic of security functions off and essentially allowing players to run with any mods that they want.

DatonKallandor
Aug 21, 2009

"I can no longer sit back and allow nationalist shitposting, nationalist indoctrination, nationalist subversion, and the German nationalist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious game balance."

Vatek posted:

:flashfap: That is amazing.

And the new DayZ is not using ArmA 3's engine because...

Mederlock
Jun 23, 2012

You won't recognize Canada when I'm through with it
Grimey Drawer
Edit: double posted, :argh: awful betamax

Mederlock fucked around with this message at 17:59 on Apr 24, 2013

Mederlock
Jun 23, 2012

You won't recognize Canada when I'm through with it
Grimey Drawer

DatonKallandor posted:

And the new DayZ is not using ArmA 3's engine because...

Because.... they've already put over a half a year into the RV 2.5 engine they've been working on, and have some really cool custom features that are made specifically to make Dayz cool, and much more secure from client side hacks. No point in throwing away all that progress.

Chortles
Dec 29, 2008

Mederlock posted:

Because.... they've already put over a half a year into the RV 2.5 engine they've been working on, and have some really cool custom features.
Plus all this poo poo that we're talking about re: Arma 3's "hilarious" lack of anti-cheat. Part of it is a fundamental issue with the engine's design, whereas DayZ is based off of the Arma 2 engine because it was way more stable at the time than Arma 3's was, and because the CEO's brother Ondrej "Suma" Spanel wrote said "Arma 2.5/DayZ SA" engine to be more like a MMO under the hood, with a different client-server relationship from Arma's as Rocket's preferred way of providing security (alongside VAC).

DatonKallandor, I'd also point to this:

Kerc Kasha posted:

Arma is also a game that's major playerbase is mostly private servers, where hacking etc isn't an issue (or very easily dealt with)

Kerc Kasha posted:

Global execute commands are incredibly important nearly every mission I have uses it at least once - with the more advanced scripts using it several times as it allows the server to act as an 'authority' regarding when and what gets executed on the client.

It also doesn't help that a lot of servers are running with even the most basic of security functions off and essentially allowing players to run with any mods that they want.
EDIT: Ahahahaha holy poo poo:

quote:

_layer cutText ['These attacks wont stop until the BIS_fnc_MP/Spawn/MPExec etc commands or the BIS scripting library in general are REMOVED. No seriously. This is the "worse" I mentioned earlier. This plague is out of the creators control. It cannot be stopped any other way. VE, mute 1.', 'PLAIN', 1]; _layer cutFadeOut 4096; };
So far what we have for dev responses:

Dwarden posted:

you can't stop them (for now, until we deploy additional updates),
because there are dozens of ways how overwrite and execute scripts remotely ...
it's not just this one function ... w/o low level access it 's lost fight by default

Moricky posted:

Hi,
we're aware of the issue and working on a fix which should prevent "hijacking" a function (like BIS_fnc_MP) for hacking purposes.

Dwarden posted:

we are working on multiple solutions to these issues (as it's not just one while it seems to be)

DnA posted:

Hi all, the problem of multiplayer being a target of those who wish to ruin the experience for others is certainly not something we are ignoring. It's also far from an easy thing to solve. Just like with other big topics (optimization :confused:) there are no magic bullets. I'll try to expand on the issue and our plans in the next SITREP - but I do not intend to promise specific solutions until they are fully confirmed.

Chortles fucked around with this message at 18:37 on Apr 24, 2013

Vatek
Nov 4, 2009

QUACKING PERMABANNED! READ HERE

~SMcD
It won't even be an issue on a private server which is what was always used for Arma 2 goons anyway.

GateheaD
Sep 27, 2005

Gatorade me bitch
How does lag in this game work,
I'm in Australia and We dont exactly have a lot of non tacticlol private servers

Mederlock
Jun 23, 2012

You won't recognize Canada when I'm through with it
Grimey Drawer

GateheaD posted:

How does lag in this game work,
I'm in Australia and We dont exactly have a lot of non tacticlol private servers

The game is very forgiving when it comes to ping, however if you're bandwidth is less then say, something like a 5 down 1 up on speedtest (easy to obtain, unless you're on dialup or something awful), you'll run into bandwidth issues. Also, the game hates packet loss with a passion. You win one, the ping side, but yeah, you need a stable connection, basically.

Chortles
Dec 29, 2008
As of build 104588:

DnA posted:

6-04-2013
EXE rev. 04588
Added: compileFinal command
Removed fully script commands: setVehicleInit, clearVehicleInit, processInitCommands
Made all script commands final (no longer possible to reassign)
Tweaked darkness detection and use of NVG by AI
Minor WIP optimizations to dynamic lights
Added: difficulty command to return high-level selected difficulty mode
Added: getArtilleryETA script command
Input Array: [unit, targetX, targetY, targetZ, magazineType]
Returns: ETA of the first available mode (the mode the AI will probably use)
Fixed: Glitch in blending of 2 animations masks
Disabled using more threads for PhysX vehicle simulation for now
Added: Functions are now compiled using newly introduced compileFinal
Added: Functions meta data are now secured against rewriting
Removed use of vulnerable script commands in DynO functions
Added numberOfDoors parameter to structure configs
Added numberOfHatches parameter to structures configs


Find a little bit more on new security features here.
That last link elaborates:

DnA posted:

The second stage of restrictions to secure parts of MP have been added to Development branch.

Scripted functions can be compiled using compileFinal, meaning the resulting variables can not be re-compiled, nilled or otherwise changed. Final state is carried over when copying the value or publishing it over the network. Our functions library is now compiled as final. We are working on methods to allow community function designers to be able to re-compile their work for debugging in selected areas of the game.

The most well-known vulnerable script commands were removed entirely from the game. This was done instead of disabling them on purpose - we want to know how widely these are used (for legitimate purposes :mad:). We don't use them ourselves.

Pending how these changes work, we'll see about the logistics of making a default branch hotfix next week (not a matter of copy-paste!).
Yet here it claims its first victim:

Lordprimate posted:

In the =BTC= Revive script. in one of my missions I use setVehicleInit to add an addaction for the Vitrual Ammo System after the MHQ is destroyed and respawns.
In another SP mission I use setVehicleInit on randonly spawned units in my missions, for things like UPS or UPSMON, and other random patrol scripts.
Krap, Basically %90 of my missions use a setVehicleInit or processInitCommands somewhere either in the scripts or in the Init.sqf.
I know that i have seen it used in countless scripts for dynamic spawning of stuffs
.

If i understand correctly compileFinal replaces processInitCommands. ??
what do we use to replace setVehicleInit?
Also:

Nimrod posted:

The problem with this now is that mission files that were locally compiled by cfgFunctions such as missionConversations.sqf or missionTasks.sqf are compiling their blank defaults in the "a3\functions\scripts" directory at runtime, but on mission load / init the local equivalent of the script file cannot be compiled and overwrite the default blank file because it's protected.

This is obviously breaking any missions that use BIS_fnc_missionTasks or BIS_fnc_missionConversations (such as all the showcase missions).
Although this last part has apparently since been hotfixed on the dev build.

As far as what the changes mean for scripters and mission builders:

MadDogX posted:

Basically any previous use of processInitCommands now needs to be replaced by an equivalent public variable + event handler. The main difficulty there is going to be syncing all important events to JIP players after they connect. Will probably require some rethinking and rewriting of scripts, but in the end the enhanced security should be worth it.

Chortles fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Apr 26, 2013

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!

Vatek posted:

It won't even be an issue on a private server which is what was always used for Arma 2 goons anyway.
When there isn't a goon session going on, I'd like to play on random servers. Having hackers left and right in that case is still not fun. But I guess I've been e:f,b'd, because that upcoming build seems to shitcan a lot of holes.

--edit: That is if there's actually any populated public servers. For some reason, tonight's pretty quiet.

Combat Pretzel fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Apr 26, 2013

Qwo
Sep 27, 2011

Mederlock posted:

make Dayz cool
I wonder what they did to accomplish this remarkable feat.

Mederlock
Jun 23, 2012

You won't recognize Canada when I'm through with it
Grimey Drawer

Qwo posted:

I wonder what they did to accomplish this remarkable feat.

Check out the dwv diaries

Faffel
Dec 31, 2008

A bouncy little mouse!

I'm a huge Arma nerd and I love Arma but I haven't really gotten to play Arma3 much or with goons yet; how do you figure out when sessions are starting? Is #armagoons just the place to be for that poo poo?

always be closing
Jul 16, 2005

Faffel posted:

I'm a huge Arma nerd and I love Arma but I haven't really gotten to play Arma3 much or with goons yet; how do you figure out when sessions are starting? Is #armagoons just the place to be for that poo poo?

if anyones actually playing, theyre not talking about it haha.

Ralith
Jan 12, 2011

I see a ship in the harbor
I can and shall obey
But if it wasn't for your misfortune
I'd be a heavenly person today

Faffel posted:

I'm a huge Arma nerd and I love Arma but I haven't really gotten to play Arma3 much or with goons yet; how do you figure out when sessions are starting? Is #armagoons just the place to be for that poo poo?
1. Choose a time of day convenient to both east and west coast
2. Announce that you will be hosting a game at that time several days in advance
3. Pick some good missions ahead of time. Be sure to have some suitable for any size of group.
4. Now you know when a session's starting!

Mederlock
Jun 23, 2012

You won't recognize Canada when I'm through with it
Grimey Drawer
I'd be playing if I wasn't on satellite internet with packet loss spikes and 3 mbps down and 0.5 mbps up

Reacon
Feb 17, 2013

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua.
I have a Q8200 running at 2.8 GHz, and a 5850 OC'd. Will this game run above 30 FPS for me on low settings at all times?

Or does anybody have a lite invite that I may demo the game with?

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!
There's even a worse variant of Wasteland, which leaves you with no starter weapon at all, if you get killed. And the only reliable source of weapons (since most item spawns are looted early on), i.e. the gunstore, always gets camped. Seriously, who thinks that this is fun.

Also, I like that among the very few loaded public servers, some are running a mission called Woods, which is a small square with two fix spawnpoints, where everyone shoots the other team. Death if you go past the square's border. There's god knows how many square kilometers for missions, this is what draws people. :saddowns:

frank.club
Jan 15, 2011

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Reacon posted:

I have a Q8200 running at 2.8 GHz, and a 5850 OC'd. Will this game run above 30 FPS for me on low settings at all times?

Or does anybody have a lite invite that I may demo the game with?

Hey there! Post (or edit in your steam name) and I'll get one to you!
Man this thread went Gold fast, and OP: I feel your satellite Internet pain.

Edit: My steam name is same as my SA name, - Acquire Currency! - for those needing a Lite key. Add me and send a message!

Double edit: One key left!

frank.club fucked around with this message at 00:35 on Apr 29, 2013

Obsidius
Nov 18, 2009

If you ever drop your
keys into a river of molten
lava, let 'em go, because
man, they're gone.
I have two lite keys left if anyone is needing one. Add me on steam (obsidius_sa) and I'll send one to you.

always be closing
Jul 16, 2005

Combat Pretzel posted:

There's even a worse variant of Wasteland, which leaves you with no starter weapon at all, if you get killed. And the only reliable source of weapons (since most item spawns are looted early on), i.e. the gunstore, always gets camped. Seriously, who thinks that this is fun.

Also, I like that among the very few loaded public servers, some are running a mission called Woods, which is a small square with two fix spawnpoints, where everyone shoots the other team. Death if you go past the square's border. There's god knows how many square kilometers for missions, this is what draws people. :saddowns:


Ive never had trouble getting a weapon in wasteland, theres one in every vehicle.

Ralith
Jan 12, 2011

I see a ship in the harbor
I can and shall obey
But if it wasn't for your misfortune
I'd be a heavenly person today

Combat Pretzel posted:

There's even a worse variant of Wasteland, which leaves you with no starter weapon at all, if you get killed. And the only reliable source of weapons (since most item spawns are looted early on), i.e. the gunstore, always gets camped. Seriously, who thinks that this is fun.

Also, I like that among the very few loaded public servers, some are running a mission called Woods, which is a small square with two fix spawnpoints, where everyone shoots the other team. Death if you go past the square's border. There's god knows how many square kilometers for missions, this is what draws people. :saddowns:

It takes good mission design to make gameplay across a large area fun, while in even the worst-designed small PVP mission at least it's easy to find combat.

Crane
Jun 10, 2004

:chord:
I should probably get back into this. I don't remember if I got ArmA2.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

Sulman
Apr 29, 2003

What did you do that for?

Ralith posted:

It takes good mission design to make gameplay across a large area fun, while in even the worst-designed small PVP mission at least it's easy to find combat.

It reminds me of the gimmick 'arena' maps on Day of Defeat and Red Orchestra. They're awful, but always have a contingent of players.

Faffel
Dec 31, 2008

A bouncy little mouse!

Ralith posted:

1. Choose a time of day convenient to both east and west coast
2. Announce that you will be hosting a game at that time several days in advance
3. Pick some good missions ahead of time. Be sure to have some suitable for any size of group.
4. Now you know when a session's starting!

My combination of hardware + internet don't allow me to host playable games, or I would. Oh well.

always be closing
Jul 16, 2005

Ralith posted:

It takes good mission design to make gameplay across a large area fun, while in even the worst-designed small PVP mission at least it's easy to find combat.

This is the truth man, hopefully its better when the game goes live, but the missions were boring as gently caress. just tons of walking and poo poo, no shooting. Im trying to GAME son!

Chortles
Dec 29, 2008

always be closing posted:

This is the truth man, hopefully its better when the game goes live, but the missions were boring as gently caress. just tons of walking and poo poo, no shooting. Im trying to GAME son!
Ended up "testing" a mission where it turned out that the enemies were in a particular area but the "area where they might be" (a red ellipse) on the map is way larger...

But now you're getting what people mean by "hiking simulator"...

Flannelette
Jan 17, 2010


Mederlock posted:

The game is very forgiving when it comes to ping, however if you're bandwidth is less then say, something like a 5 down 1 up on speedtest (easy to obtain, unless you're on dialup or something awful), you'll run into bandwidth issues. Also, the game hates packet loss with a passion. You win one, the ping side, but yeah, you need a stable connection, basically.

ISPs in OZ rarely have upload higher than .5 but lots of down, is that a problem?

Ralith
Jan 12, 2011

I see a ship in the harbor
I can and shall obey
But if it wasn't for your misfortune
I'd be a heavenly person today

Flannelette posted:

ISPs in OZ rarely have upload higher than .5 but lots of down, is that a problem?

You should be fine playing on other people's servers. Might not be able to host very large games, though.

frank.club
Jan 15, 2011

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
How are you guys playing the official missions?

Jippa
Feb 13, 2009
Ridiculous.

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/05/02/important-news-bees-cast-shadows-in-arma-3/

Baloogan
Dec 5, 2004
Fun Shoe
Does everyone on a multiplayer server see the same bees?

GoldenNugget
Mar 27, 2008
:dukedog:

haha I remember when ambient life in ArmA2 spawned a ton of animals and killed performance in missions.

http://www.arma3.com/news/this-is-war-photography#.UYJ-57WG2Sq

The camera controls seem really neat. Not super detailed but you can control aperture and focus which I assume allows you to play around with DOF effects. I remember people posting about being bird photographers so... maybe we can do macro and be bee photographers now.

Chortles
Dec 29, 2008
Stable build updated to 0.56.104778, changelog at SPOTREP #00003:

SPOTREP #00003 posted:

DATA
  • Added: Functions are now compiled using newly introduced compileFinal
  • Added: Functions meta data are now secured against rewriting
  • Removed use of vulnerable script commands in DynO functions
  • Added: BIS_fnc_log enabled in public version when 'allowFunctionsLog = 1;' is set in description.ext
  • Fixed: BIS_fnc_sideColor can now load non-number values
  • Fixed: BIS_fnc_functionMeta was not working with scenario and campaign functions
  • Added: Scenario / campaign functions now support 'forced' param, allowing them to be executed automatically upon mission start
  • Added: BIS_fnc_spawn
  • Added: Ability to execute BIS_fnc_execVM and BIS_fnc_execFSM without arguments
  • Fixed: BIS_fnc_error was not working correctly
  • Changed: Splendid Camera roll speed decreased, users should no longer be inclined to take screens with too extreme roll
ENGINE
  • Fog is now really enabled for this branch
  • getFuelCargo, getAmmoCargo, getRepairCargo commands added
  • Fixes to serialization of particle emitters
  • Fixed: shoreline was not covered by fog properly
  • Correct vonCodecQuality is set now
  • Fixed: Animation source gear for PhysX vehicles
  • Fixed: Ships are now using the correct Arma 3 gearbox
  • Merge from OA: attack helicopter was unable to engage with rockets (PhysX-compatible)
  • Fixed: canMove on a vehicle with dead driver would return false in some cases
  • Improved synchronization of structure destruction in MP
  • Hotfixed: http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=5928 (MP crash)
  • Fixed: AI now uses optics better to detect enemies
  • Fixed: Switching HDR settings could cause graphical corruption
  • Added: Removing destroyed buildings from PhysX simulation
  • Fixed: Crash opportunity related to PhysX
  • Added: new events for inventory event handlers: "Take" and "Put"
  • Fixed: improved path planning related to roads
  • Tweaked darkness detection and use of NVG by AI
  • Minor optimizations to dynamic lights
  • Added: difficulty command to return high-level selected difficulty mode
  • Added: getArtilleryETA script command
    -- Input Array: [unit, targetX, targetY, targetZ, magazineType]
    -- Returns: ETA of the first available mode (the mode the AI will probably use)
  • Fixed: Glitch in blending of 2 animations masks
  • Added: compileFinal command
  • Removed fully script commands: setVehicleInit, clearVehicleInit, processInitCommands
  • Made all script commands final (no longer possible to reassign in most circumstances)
  • Fixed: healing sound could play in an endless loop
  • Attenuation of dynamic lights can now be influenced by a new
  • parameter in asset configuration - maximum distance of light
  • On steep surfaces, players now crouch instead of fully standing up
  • -showScriptErrors enabled by default
    -- To allow better debugging (may or may not be changed for final release)
Maybe try hopping back onto stable servers?

Flaky
Feb 14, 2011
Probation
Can't post for 3 years!
I kind of hope the next Arma is set partway through a conflict so that the mapping team can model a city/country being worn down by the conflict. More Aleppo than sleepy seaside resort.

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ExtraNoise
Apr 11, 2007

Flaky posted:

I kind of hope the next Arma is set partway through a conflict so that the mapping team can model a city/country being worn down by the conflict. More Aleppo than sleepy seaside resort.

Has it been confirmed that the game is only shipping with Stratis and Altis? There are no plans at this time to add another map?

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