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The Culture comes across as morally ambiguous in Consider Phlebas, depending on your world view I suppose. They certainly don't come off as evil, just arrogant. The Idirans don't come off very well (they don't think many other races are more than 'biomachines' and are uber religious etc).
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May 9, 2013 09:34
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Hydrogen Sonata is up for a Locus award this year. http://www.locusmag.com/News/2013/05/2013-locus-awards-finalists/ I really loved the book, hoping it wins. Winners announced end of June.
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May 9, 2013 11:34
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Jet Jaguar posted:Hydrogen Sonata is up for a Locus award this year. Hydrogen Sonata was really good, up there with Excession as one of my favorite Culture novels. I'm just hoping that Banks finds a way to continue with the universe after his passing, either by whipping some kind of "Guide for the Culture Universe" type thing, or by finding another author to continue after him. The Culture universe is too fantastic, I need more of it! Bank's passing will be a true tragedy, he's a genius, and I wish him the best.
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May 9, 2013 17:17
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The Culture universe is fantastic, but I don't think I've ever encountered another author who'd be able to pull off the feel of the thing, let alone the creative, impossibly imaginative application of post-scarcity.
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May 9, 2013 17:46
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I didn't really dislike The Hydrogen Sonata, but I didn't love it either. I'm sure I missed a lot on the first reading, but the structure of the story made it kind of hard for me to get into. It seems like everyone who we spend much time with is already pretty convinced of the truth of the big scary secret, which made the QiRia scavenger hunt feel superfluous. There also seemed to be some threads that didn't really go anywhere, like the back-from-the-sublime Mind who doesn't seem to connect to anything else in the story. MikeJF posted:The Culture universe is fantastic, but I don't think I've ever encountered another author who'd be able to pull off the feel of the thing, let alone the creative, impossibly imaginative application of post-scarcity. Yeah, it's tricky. It's an amazing setting in the right hands, but give it to a writer who doesn't know what to do with it and it's perfectly set up for shallow wish-fulfillment pap.
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May 9, 2013 17:53
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Basically you'd need to hand it off to another communist.  And not China Mieville, because his strengths as a writer are completely different.
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May 9, 2013 23:43
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He Who Dares posted:I'm just hoping that Banks finds a way to continue with the universe after his passing, either by whipping some kind of "Guide for the Culture Universe" type thing, or by finding another author to continue after him. The Culture universe is too fantastic, I need more of it! Has Dune taught us nothing? 
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May 9, 2013 23:54
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Hedrigall posted:I just finished Use of Weapons. I've been really slow getting into Banks, considering this is only the second book I've read by him, and I read Player of Games back in 2011. I'm going to try to get through a couple more of his books this year now, because wow that man can write.
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May 10, 2013 00:08
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I just finished Use of Weapons, and have a question. It's probably been repeated in the thread before, so I apologize: Is the protagonist sane? In particular, I'm wondering if he's got some kind of shattered personality thing going on where he doesn't truly know who he is. He gets massive brain trauma quite early in the story chronologically, enough to cause memory loss. Otherwise a few things don't make sense to me, like the shard of bone in his heart. Are his memories a jumble of the two, with false recollections hiding the truth from his mind?
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May 12, 2013 13:46
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02-6611-0142-1 posted:I just finished Use of Weapons, and have a question. It's probably been repeated in the thread before, so I apologize: No; he thinks he's Zakalwe. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 14:10 on May 12, 2013 |
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May 12, 2013 14:07
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02-6611-0142-1 posted:I just finished Use of Weapons, and have a question. It's probably been repeated in the thread before, so I apologize: If I recall correctly, the story about the bone shard is vague with its male pronouns, leading the reader to believe that Cheradenine was hit without ever actually saying so. I think the chapter in which the chair is revealed is the only one from the perspective of the real Cheradenine Zakalwe.
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May 12, 2013 15:35
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I just finished my first ever Culture novel, Consider Phlebas, and it was fantastic. I'm certainly going to read the rest. I enjoyed his writing style - it's conversational but detailed, and his occasional out-of-order tellings give the feel of a storyteller rather than a novelist. Same with character perspective - to start with it was pretty much Horza's first person, but by the middle it would jump into others' heads much more often. He's very good at action sequences, especially the ship-iceberg crash, which was very cinematic. I'd already read A Few Notes on the Culture, so I knew what to expect there, but I enjoyed all of the epic settings - Fal'Ngeestra climbing mountain ranges in her own little world, the ship sailing the orbital, and so on. Is there more of this? I also liked how the Culture were portrayed - as very general. An optional body of support and freedom and full life which results in shades of opinion and action which ultimately generalise into what the Culture is generally about. My expectations were subverted in a couple of places: 1) I'd read the description as something like 'Someone on the other side of the Culture ultimately learns how much he has in common with them', which wasn't really Horza's arc at all. I was expecting him to generally learn more of the Culture and tend toward their way of thinking while becoming disillusioned with the Idirans, then to find the Mind and have some discussion with it which cemented that. That didn't really happen and I was a little disappointed that the Mind turned out to be more of a MacGuffin than an opportunity to give IMB's world another perspective or at least another sense of epic scale. 2) More generally, the book reads less like a story and more like an account, especially in terms of character development. There was growth there, but by the end it became clear that IMB wasn't writing it to bring all the characters to some emotional conclusion, instead giving them natural growth within a series of events they had little control over (including their own deaths). I liked this though, it was very non-Hollywood and it felt realistic. One thing remains unclear. As I was reading I thought the Culture was portrayed as future humanity, but then I saw that it's set concurrently. However, some characters refer to themselves as humans, not even just humanoid. If there's a non-spoilery answer I'd appreciate it, or if not and it's explained later then a 'keep reading' would be appreciated. I know that Earth is one of the planets which the Culture has under observation but not interference. I'm excited about the next couple of books, especially since (in release order) the next two I have are the ones listed on the front page as particularly decent. The real reason I'm reading these, though, is for the sense of scale - of space, of time, of civilisation's growth, of computer processing power, of dimensions beyond our space or beyond life. How much of that is there? Are there often little deviations into that kind of discourse? Are there always nice epic settings like the ringworlds? Anything else (spoiler-free of course) I should look forward to? EddieDean fucked around with this message at 10:41 on May 21, 2013 |
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May 21, 2013 10:35
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If you want to read more about the minds, Excession is your best bet. If you want to read more about life inside the culture and their society, I'd say Look to Windward is a prime example of that. If you want to read more about the Culture and it's position in the galaxy and dealings with other societies, Player of Games and Excession are very good in that regard. If you want to read a more personal account of the Culture (much like Consider Phlebas, but from inside the culture as it were), I'd recommend Use of Weapons, although it's not inside the Culture as such. Many consider this to be his best work. If you want a good introduction to the Culture from an outsider's perspective, I found Surface Detail to be enlightening on the whole setting. If you want more clarity on the our position (us humans on Earth) within the Culture universe, read The State of the Art, a short story collection of which the titular story deals with that issue. Inversion is only sort of a Culture novel, and Matter a bit more, but still different from the others. Both are also really good reads though. Enjoy. I'll spoiler it just in case, although there aren't any spoilers for any of the stories, but the following is on humanity in the setting: (Pan-)Humanity is more a collection of humanoid races which are similar enough (due to convergent evolution, genetic tinkering and all that) to allow for a kinship which enables them to collectively consider themselves 'human'. We, from Earth, are fairly typical examples, although when you read more of the novels (a good example would be Surface Detail, best would be State of the Art) you will find out that they vary a lot. Some will be more elf like, other more dwarf like, to put it in fantasy terms, while some will barely be recognisably human, being apelike or even more different. Generally speaking, when they talk about humans, it's best to read it as humanoid, but because the Culture is inherently so vast and diverse, the whole distinction between humanoid and human becomes meaningless because there simply is not prototypical human race to speak of. Don't underestimate the Culture's ability to fashion themselves, socially, culturally and genetically, as they please. I still have to read the Hydrogen Sonata, but I'm putting that off until the summer, when I've got the time to properly enjoy it. Taeke fucked around with this message at 11:23 on May 21, 2013 |
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May 21, 2013 10:51
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Thanks for putting that together, I really appreciate it. I'm still going to read through them in release order, I think, but now I'm excited for ALL of them. Regarding Earth-humanity's place, that all makes sense. In the Cultureverse, did Earth-humanity evolve independently of other humanoids (due to it being a Good Shape), or was it part-guided by some seeder race (or early accident)?
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May 21, 2013 13:50
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I don't know if that's ever answered, but if you think about it bipedal species have their hands freed to learn to use tools and then their brains slowly get bigger and they use more tools and boom you have The Culture. It makes sense that evolution would follow a similar path on other earth like planets some of the time. But then sometimes the dinosaurs get their poo poo together and you get the Idirans so there's that. Please don't die Iain  gently caress cancer forever.
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May 21, 2013 14:37
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Plus for sufficiently advanced races shape is pretty much a choice, anyway. It's been mentioned there's been fad periods of history where much of the Culture was non-humanoid, but that during the time of the books a form that's somewhat resembling their pre-space ancestors is in fashion. It's all artificial, which is why the fact that the Culture was formed originally from a bunch of different species' is irrelevant these days. But there's plenty of other evolved shapes around. There's a kind of parallel-Culture-equivalent that's formed from waterbound species, for example.
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May 21, 2013 14:50
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There's also the Affront, and it's quite explicitly mentioned that if the Affront were either a bit more outgoing, a bit less... crude, a bit earlier to develop or maybe even a bit more lucky, they'd have developed a (Gas-planet based) Culture of their own, albeit far from the idealistic and utopian Culture as we know. We mustn't forget that the Culture is only one of several/many societies in play. There's frequent mention of equitech developments and such in most stories, and many are at least as formidable both in power and size as the Culture. The problem is essentially sublimation, which the Culture seems too lazy, idealistic or whatnot to do as a society, even though often parts of it do take the next step. The more I think about it, the less substance and coherence the Culture as a concept has. Iain M. Banks is awesome, quite literally in the sense of inspiring awe for the vastness of the setting.
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May 21, 2013 15:11
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Taeke posted:The more I think about it, the less substance and coherence the Culture as a concept has. That seems to be the case for people in the setting as well. The Culture is so borderless and unstructured that it's hard to pin down who's part of the Culture proper, whatever that might mean, and who's part of some offshoot faction.
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May 21, 2013 15:20
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http://boingboing.net/2013/05/22/iain-banks-doesnt-write-sf-f.html Check this out, wherein he says, in response to an incorrect belief, that the sci-fi never funded the regular fiction. To me the question is backwards; I could never imagine how someone would think that the culture novels were written just to fund the regular fiction. I always felt the scifi read like it was a labour of love (I really don't like referring to it in the past tense!), especially the culture novels, and in particular Hydrogen Sonata where the Old Guy answers a lot of the culture questions Banks must have got over the years, on his behalf (at least I like to think so). If anything I thought the mainstream was written to fund the scifi. e: I'll also way I wish he'd stop replying to all this kind of bullshit and get on with doing fun things.
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May 23, 2013 00:35
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I caved and bought The Hydrogen Sonata today. It's going to give me some much needed relaxation during the busy exam period ahead of me.
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May 23, 2013 17:22
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gender illusionist posted:http://boingboing.net/2013/05/22/iain-banks-doesnt-write-sf-f.html  Why on earth would anyone ever think this? Besides what you mentioned, genre fiction like SF is never going to make more money than thrillers.
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May 23, 2013 22:34
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Banks never wrote thrillers.
General Battuta fucked around with this message at 23:15 on May 23, 2013 |
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May 23, 2013 23:04
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General Battuta posted:Banks never wrote thrillers. I just went with the description in the link. I've been planning to read Iain Banks but, to my shame, so far I've only had time for Iain M. Banks.
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May 23, 2013 23:06
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General Battuta posted:Banks never wrote thrillers. I dunno... Complicity? It's not a set-in-stone definition, is it? Mass market novel with some suspense in it?
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May 23, 2013 23:43
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Antti posted:
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May 24, 2013 01:50
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Basically you'd need to hand it off to another communist.
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May 24, 2013 21:26
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lllllllllllllllllll posted:Or Englishman (no offence to the famous Scottish writer intended). Somehow I sometimes get the impression the Culture could also be understood as the victory of British politness over brutish ruffians. Well, that's certainly not intended and probably wrong anyway. China Mieville comes to mind when it comes to the politics of The Culture series. That would be amazing.
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May 24, 2013 22:56
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fookolt posted:China Mieville comes to mind when it comes to the politics of The Culture series. That would be amazing. China Mieville is my favorite author but that wouldn't be The Culture. e: He could do a Zetetic Elench sort of spin-off in a Culture inspired universe maybe?
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May 24, 2013 23:38
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MeLKoR posted:China Mieville is my favorite author but that wouldn't be The Culture. The writing style would be very different, but I think China has plenty of crazy as hell ideas about biology and environments.
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May 25, 2013 00:03
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lllllllllllllllllll posted:Or Englishman (no offence to the famous Scottish writer intended). Somehow I sometimes get the impression the Culture could also be understood as the victory of British politness over brutish ruffians. Well, that's certainly not intended and probably wrong anyway. I'm... not so sure about that. Because there is a spacegoing species in the Culture universe that's really obviously modeled on the British Empire, and they are not depicted in a flattering light.
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May 25, 2013 01:25
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:I'm... not so sure about that. Because there is a spacegoing species in the Culture universe that's really obviously modeled on the British Empire, and they are not depicted in a flattering light. Oh god how did I not see this before And literally full of hot air and selfimportance, argh
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May 25, 2013 09:58
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Illuyankas posted:Oh god how did I not see this before I've literally always picture the Affront as being Monty Python caricatures with large colonial moustaches
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May 25, 2013 10:09
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I think The Culture should die with Banks. I cant imagine anyone else really able to do it justice. Maybe Gene Wolfe...but then it would be a Gene Wolfe thing.
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May 25, 2013 13:05
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Argali posted:I think The Culture should die with Banks. I cant imagine anyone else really able to do it justice. Maybe Gene Wolfe...but then it would be a Gene Wolfe thing. I'm sure tons of people said that about Vance's Dying Earth universe but then we got a great tribute anthology and he's not even dead yet.
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May 25, 2013 14:38
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I'd love to see someone like Neal Asher start writing books set in the Culture universe (only with Banks' blessing of course). Imagine what would happen if an eccentric Mind, off wandering billions of light years away from the Culture proper, encountered the Polity (actually no that's a terrible idea but still, Asher's take on the Culture would be great). Taratang fucked around with this message at 17:53 on May 25, 2013 |
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May 25, 2013 17:01
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If it's not Banks it's not the Culture. His stories are more than the worlds and tech he thought up, it's the way you tell stories that matters not the world building. If anyone is good enough to take over for him when he dies(in 40+ years because gently caress cancer) they should just make up their own stories. Dune is the best example in the ways that a great series can be ruined by another author, but honestly i don't think anyone could have taken over for Frank Herbert. You can't take over a dead persons brain.
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May 25, 2013 19:46
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Yeah, as much as I love the Culture novels, there's no way it would be the same with someone else writing. I think it would do what Banks has written a greater disservice than just leaving the setting and material stand as they are.
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May 25, 2013 21:47
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On the other hand I'd love to see a TV series of something like Use of Weapons. Or a movie (maybe). They talked about doing Player of Games but I think there are much better books to start with. Consider Phlebas would be a good start as it's a bit more nuanced about the nature of the Culture.
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May 26, 2013 09:13
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BastardySkull posted:On the other hand I'd love to see a TV series of something like Use of Weapons. Or a movie (maybe). If they were making a movie I'd say Player of Games or Consider Phlebas; for a miniseries I'd rather go with something with a few more plots going on at once, like Surface Detail.
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May 26, 2013 10:19
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Banks always freely admitted he wrote Consider Phlebas as if it were a massive-scale sci-fi film. The Culture universe as a whole is absolutely ripe for a visual medium, but I can't help but feel incredibly precious about it.
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