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I wouldn't have had the jobs I got in 2011 and 2012 if it wasn't for the fact I had a diploma. My recent job searches, nine times out of ten the job I'm looking at asks for a college diploma or university degree in anything.
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Jun 7, 2013 05:41
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:Screaming about becoming a tradesperson is better than what it was when I was getting out of high school which was more or less "if you do not spend the next several years locked into university, you will die homeless and alone in a cardboard box, covered in roaches and lepers". Boy, did that mentality ever work out well for my age cohort, I cannot tell you how many people I know who have absolutely useless degrees because they all rushed into the system without any thought for what they wanted to do with their expensive paper when they had it. PoliSci, Women's Studies, and English majors, ahoy! Thank god I'm going into Computer Science to become a game developer, worst case even if I don't get hired by a studio I can still get something greenlit on steam and make a month to month living that way. Actually worst case is teaching ESL overseas since most programs I'm familiar with only care if you have a University degree, doesn't matter the subject.
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Jun 7, 2013 05:59
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Raenir Salazar posted:Thank god I'm going into Computer Science to become a game developer, worst case even if I don't get hired by a studio I can still get something greenlit on steam and make a month to month living that way. You hope. (not to kill aspirations but that's like me saying oh well if I don't get work soon my book I'm writing will get published and I can live off that)
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Jun 7, 2013 06:00
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From my personal experience, you pretty much do have to go to college and get a degree because apparently you aren't qualified to flip burgers unless you've studied ancient Greece or something for four years.
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Jun 7, 2013 06:03
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:You hope. Surprisingly analogous, I was coming from it more from (and to use your analogy) even if say a company doesn't hire you as a writer (Games, Movie Scripts?) you are still capable of writing a novel; and even if no one touches it (as what nearly happened with Tolkien) you are still capable of self publishing. The point I'm sure we both understand is as careers go, there's a degree of autonomy where we can produce something and maybe be compensated.
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Jun 7, 2013 06:04
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Raenir Salazar posted:Surprisingly analogous, I was coming from it more from (and to use your analogy) even if say a company doesn't hire you as a writer (Games, Movie Scripts?) you are still capable of writing a novel; and even if no one touches it (as what nearly happened with Tolkien) you are still capable of self publishing. The point I'm sure we both understand is as careers go, there's a degree of autonomy where we can produce something and maybe be compensated. Ahh I see, sorry I thought there was a presumption there. My bad and good luck 
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Jun 7, 2013 06:13
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Gus Hobbleton posted:From my personal experience, you pretty much do have to go to college and get a degree because apparently you aren't qualified to flip burgers unless you've studied ancient Greece or something for four years. I went through the similar "University or Life as a Hobo" thing that the Ontario education system forcefully stuffed down my throat in high school and whatnot, but there is something about this sentiment that makes me wonder. It seems like Canada is almost increasing complexity a bit needlessly. I wonder why that could be? If more levels of education are required to sustain our country, then wouldn't a better move would be to move to a polytech system similar to what Quebec uses?
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Jun 7, 2013 06:13
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Raenir Salazar posted:Thank god I'm going into Computer Science to become a game developer, worst case even if I don't get hired by a studio I can still get something greenlit on steam and make a month to month living that way. I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not. I was leaning towards yes but then your second post seems pretty serious... If you're going for a rewarding and reasonably safe career and end up in game development you have taken a horribly wrong turn somewhere along the line. Game development is about as abusive and bottom-of-the-barrel as you can get while still doing actual programming. It's extremely difficult work that takes a great deal of brains-effort to grasp, has some of the longest hours, fewest vacation days yet also the worst pay and least job security. There is literally no reason for anyone to go into game development for any reason. It's not like you actually get to "make games" - you don't get to make any calls about it. The calls come down from the design dudes and the producers and you'll just work on a tiny highly technical component that nobody without a programming background will even understand (let alone notice or care about) under hilariously inadequate deadlines, that, at best, if you, against all reason and at great personal cost, manage to meet, will be rewarded with a bonus to the tune of half a paycheque (assuming your project didn't fail for any one of a gazillion reasons you have absolutely no control over) and a swift kick out the door because you were actually hired on contract for this project only and until the execs decide whether or not this franchise/studio has been "blockbuster" enough to keep around for another iteration, you are worth less than dogshit to them. If everything went exceedingly well you may be asked to come back for the next project, possibly for lower pay depending on how salaries have been going in your area. Doesn't that sound just great? Get your comp-sci degree if you enjoy programming (or just math in general). Use it to do absolutely anything other than game development. Find a cushy job with reasonable hours and work on your amazing zelda sex simulator idea in your spare time, or do the high-burn-out deathmarch thing while actually getting paid lots, saving up some money to some day quit and do your stupid kickstarter. Source: I worked for Activision as a non-game-programmer doing not-game-programming near the actual game developer dudes, and their life was the living nightmare I describe above.
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Jun 7, 2013 06:39
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Gus Hobbleton posted:From my personal experience, you pretty much do have to go to college and get a degree because apparently you aren't qualified to flip burgers unless you've studied ancient Greece or something for four years. That's what happens when you live on Vancouver Island and don't care to work in forestry or fisheries. ^^^ I know many game programmers and that's pretty much true. It's why I took the easy way out and got a great job writing Django for a security company. If you haven't watched Indie Game: The Movie do so, and understand that for each one of those three dudes, there are thousands of others who never made it. There are decent jobs to be had in the industry but you will have to be drat good to get them, which is going to mean lots and lots of unpaid practice. Or nepotism. ZShakespeare fucked around with this message at 06:45 on Jun 7, 2013 |
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Jun 7, 2013 06:41
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Mr. Wynand posted:A life in game programming. Hey, I escaped from it when I decided I had better things to do than to uproot my family every 10-24 months chasing a poorly paid temporary programmer job around the world. And they are mostly all temporary positions in the end as you pretty much have zero job security. There are way better things to do.
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Jun 7, 2013 07:00
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Mr. Wynand posted:I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not. I was leaning towards yes but then your second post seems pretty serious... Raenir Salazar, You should listen to everything this man says.
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Jun 7, 2013 07:01
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Mr. Wynand posted:I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not. I was leaning towards yes but then your second post seems pretty serious... I agree that this is mostly true in terms of information (regarding the AAA industry anyways) presented but its conclusion "Don't go into game development for any reason" is wrong. I'm going into game development because I'm passionate about games, the direction of the medium as an emerging art form and creating them is a lifelong dream I've been working hard to become well equipped for. The long hours (crunch time), low pay, and sadly, poor job security are most of the time the price of admission to be able to accomplish your life long dream goals. The game industry as a whole isn't this monolithic desolate soul crushing landscape, the mordor of the game industry only makes up a (possibly large) part of it and I do fully expect much misery and hellish ladder climbing before I get there (if I'm going through the AAA side of things). I do enjoy programming and I made the right choice and on the right track as that direction goes as being a good programmer is pretty drat important for being a game developer. I regularly participate in my program's Graduate Game Studies labs, read a voracious amount of material (of which the Extra Credits videos are a tiny tiny rose tinted percent of), and regularly working my rear end off. To clarify, I am not contesting the fact that game development as a career is extremely arduous Herculean difficult feat to accomplish in a satisfying way and everything the post I quoted says is true for much of it; I know, or at least 'recognize on an cognitive level'. I just disagree with the conclusion that one should run the other way and never look back. Obviously if your point is "don't go into game design if you think its a safe easy job" then I agree and that bit of my post can probably be taken as a form of sarcasm. You do this make this point, which is uncontestable, but then you go into the "for any reason" bit and that just doesn't follow and seems as entirely ancillary. Raenir Salazar fucked around with this message at 07:41 on Jun 7, 2013 |
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Jun 7, 2013 07:38
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Raenir Salazar posted:I'm going into game development because I'm passionate about games, the direction of the medium as an emerging art form and creating them is a lifelong dream I've been working hard to become well equipped for. You can continue being passionate about games and even work on your contribution towards that without throwing the rest of your life away for it. quote:I do enjoy programming and I made the right choice and on the right track as that direction goes as being a good programmer is pretty drat important for being a game developer. I regularly participate in my program's Graduate Game Studies labs, read a voracious amount of material (of which the Extra Credits videos are a tiny tiny rose tinted percent of), and regularly working my rear end off. quote:extremely arduous Herculean difficult feat I really think Sisyphus is a much better mythological greek figure to personify your career choice... quote:Obviously if your point is "don't go into game design if you think its a safe easy job" then I agree and that bit of my post can probably be taken as a form of sarcasm. You do this make this point, which is uncontestable, but then you go into the "for any reason" bit and that just doesn't follow and seems as entirely ancillary. No my point is still not to go into game development for any reason, period. (going into for the safety is just an especially hilarious one). It is one of the worst ways to break into "making games". You are much better off doing some other kind of programming for career purposes and just fiddle around with making games on your own time (and terms). Also note that game design is not game development. You can get into game design and still enjoy the terrible pay (wore actually) and poor job security, but you don't need nearly the same level of education or technical proficiency. You can get started doing stuff like even scripting or quest design and that is at least in the same ballpark as "making games". You also have a chance of eventually, given an unreasonable chain of good luck on your part, to be promoted to something like "guy who gets to decide how the game is going to work". That's the right track to be on for that position at least. It's stupid hard to get into those positions though. Getting promoted there from programming though? No way man. The top of your career ladder is a technical lead of sorts (which is also nice, but there are much easier ways of doing that).
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Jun 7, 2013 08:00
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Ah I see, there's a misconception here that's my fault as its 3 AM and I accidentally conflated the two terms, This is actually the correct video so yes I meant game designer. Though while "directly" getting there from programmer may not be the case its a good starting point as any and doesn't pigeon hole me (Because well, a solid Bachalor's in CompSci is good for a good range of technical fields/jobs). From which then your other suggestions are perfectly reasonable depending on what opportunities present themselves and the choices I make.
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Jun 7, 2013 08:19
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:I don't consider it an ineffective smear because it's just the kind of thing to keep people negative about the NDP leader. It's an easy smear to attach on him and him doing his best to smile and laugh up ain't going to change the political ads that paint him as angry. I guess we'll have to see how things play out over the next two years but for my part I doubt that "Angry Tom" will be a terribly effective attack. The most reliable way to hit the NDP is and will remain the idea that they are high taxers who will be bad for the economy and will give special favours to Quebec. Angry Tom just doesn't have the traction that the personal attacks on Dion and Ignatieff had. If the CPC or Liberals manage to gut the NDP before 2015 they'll do it by attacking their perceived untrustworthiness rather than by assassinating Mulcair's character. quote:My later point was how a lot of people already prepared to vote NDP even if they decide to support something stupid tend to miss why the CPC and Liberals can at times be much, much more effective at selling their brand and how they are a bit more teflon when it comes to smearing because they understand an on the fence voter better. If you need "proof" read the politics thread a week before the BC election and then the day of the election. I don't remember too many NDP supporter posts saying they think they sold their message improperly or that the attacks against the BC NDP were working. A week before the BC election I was noting how awful the polls looked and asking BC NDPers on the ground whether or not they were sensing a change of direction, so the idea that somehow all NDP supporters were assuming the BC election would be a sure thing is wrong. Besides which, using an election that almost every pollster and pundit, regardless of party affiliation, got wrong as proof that NDP supporters are somehow uniquely bad at understanding politics is nonsensical. I also don't see how you survey the last ten years of political history and conclude that either the Liberals or Conservatives are "teflon" when it comes to politics. The Conservatives lost the 2004 election after one of their candidates spooked the electorate by implying that the CPC would use the notwithstanding clause to abolish gay marriage, playing to voter fears that Reform party radicals would be the real power in Ottawa. In 2008 and 2011 the Liberals had disastrous election results because their leaders were hit by actually damaging political attacks (unlike the "Angry Tom" stuff). Meanwhile Harper's current negatives are extremely high and the only thing that keeps him in power is vote splitting. I have no clue how you look at a situation like that and conclude that the CPC or LPC are "teflon". They have some obvious entrenched advantages over the NDP and those are reflected in election results, but the advantages presumably come primarily from having more money and a favourable media, not because of some mystical and poorly specified understanding of the "average Canadian".
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Jun 7, 2013 15:56
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The Ford saga keeps getting weirder:Gawker posted:A Pipe-Wielding Thug Stormed the Rob Ford Crackhouse, Seeking Video The behind-the-scenes struggle to acquire this video is proving weirder and more disturbing than the existence of the video itself.
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Jun 7, 2013 16:44
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Pshaw, that's yesterday's Weird Scoop. The new hotness today is a mysterious fall from a 5th floor balcony. quote:Two weeks after a Fort McMurray man was arrested and charged in a murder that has become linked with the alleged Toronto Mayor Rob Ford drug video, police say the Alberta man’s former home was the scene of a bizarre incident where a man allegedly fell from a fifth-floor balcony.
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Jun 7, 2013 16:51
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vyelkin posted:In totally unrelated, and bizarre, news, the Competition Bureau has charged Nestle and Mars, along with a large distribution network, with price fixing. Hershey would have been charged too, but they cooperated with the investigation and are expected to plead guilty. This investigation started in 2007 btw. Don't get your hopes up for anything to happen anytime soon in any other industry.
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Jun 7, 2013 17:13
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Against the wishes of the DND, the government has repainted a military jet with CPC colours. One can only wonder what kind of cheques were used to pay for it.
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Jun 7, 2013 17:49
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This whole Rob Ford saga has the makings of an amazing Coen Brothers movie.
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Jun 7, 2013 17:54
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priznat posted:This whole Rob Ford saga has the makings of an amazing Coen Brothers movie.
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Jun 7, 2013 17:55
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Kenny Logins posted:"Burn After Eating". "No city for Fat Men" "Ford-go (just go)" "A Serious Crackhead"
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Jun 7, 2013 17:56
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priznat posted:This whole Rob Ford saga has the makings of an amazing Coen Brothers movie. All you have to do is replace Jerry Lundergard's wife with the crack tape and you're most of the way there.
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Jun 7, 2013 17:57
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"Fatgo" "The really big Ford" "Plain Simple"
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Jun 7, 2013 17:57
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"The Cracksmoker Proxy". Okay, I think that's about all of them.
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Jun 7, 2013 18:02
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Kenny Logins posted:"The Cracksmoker Proxy". "True poo poo" 
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Jun 7, 2013 18:11
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O Dealer, Where Art Thou? (I'm Jonesin')
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Jun 7, 2013 18:13
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Jerry SanDisky posted:Against the wishes of the DND, the government has repainted a military jet with CPC colours. One can only wonder what kind of cheques were used to pay for it.   Not even the United States has its plane donned in red, white, and blue like ours is. It looks like it's a commercial airliner too.
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Jun 7, 2013 18:14
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"Blubber Simple" "Drive After Reading" Alternatively, several Cohen Bro movie titles already sound like they are referring to Ford's absenteism. i.e. "The Man Who Wasn't There" or "O' Brother Where Art Though?"
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Jun 7, 2013 18:15
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I don't know much about him, honestly, but it seems like everytime I see MacKay come up lately, I've been impressed with him. He opposed this jet repaint, he put himself through the new fitness test for the Canadian Forces (and owned it), and I kind of wish maybe he had wound up Prime Minister instead of Harper just because he seems a lot more likeable. Stephen Harper is just so... unfriendly and wooden, like he was built by a cheap Hollywood fx house.
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Jun 7, 2013 18:20
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He was still a complete poo poo about the whole F-35 purchase. What the heck is even going on with that now, anyways?
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Jun 7, 2013 18:32
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Plus his wife is a smoke show. If anything, that qualifies him to represent us on a world stage. For your viewing pleasure:  (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 7, 2013 18:35
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gently caress Peter MacKay.
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Jun 7, 2013 18:40
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:I don't know much about him, honestly, but it seems like everytime I see MacKay come up lately, I've been impressed with him. He opposed this jet repaint, he put himself through the new fitness test for the Canadian Forces (and owned it), and I kind of wish maybe he had wound up Prime Minister instead of Harper just because he seems a lot more likeable. Stephen Harper is just so... unfriendly and wooden, like he was built by a cheap Hollywood fx house. He has his moments The entire F-35 thing is pretty unforgivable though
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Jun 7, 2013 18:41
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Yeah, I knew there was something lovely in his dossier. Goddamn it. Can't we just have one single glimmering drop of heroism in the government? 
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Jun 7, 2013 18:43
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There was the time Peter MacKay won the PC leadership by signing an agreement with David Orchard saying he'd never merge with the Alliance, and then did it five months later. And the time he retasked a CF helicopter to pick him up from a fishing trip. And the time he called Belinda Stronach a dog. And the hilariously bungled F-35 imbroglio.
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Jun 7, 2013 18:45
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drat you Pinterest Mom I was trying to be a self deprecating Conservative and you beat me to it.Blade_of_tyshalle posted:I don't know much about him, honestly, but it seems like everytime I see MacKay come up lately, I've been impressed with him. He opposed this jet repaint, he put himself through the new fitness test for the Canadian Forces (and owned it), and I kind of wish maybe he had wound up Prime Minister instead of Harper just because he seems a lot more likeable. Stephen Harper is just so... unfriendly and wooden, like he was built by a cheap Hollywood fx house. Oh man, not MacKay. I mean sure, bash on Harper there have been some questionable calls lately and generally. But as someone who is PC I would still groan if MacKay was PM after all the private procurement of military vehicles for personal use and convenience. He's a great dude maybe to have a beer with. But he is no more fit to be PM than Harper (by your standards, as I have interpreted them) I assure you. Here. Here. Here. Also an interesting point re: F-35 and Justice Gomery re: Ministerial Responsibility. Anyway, just know MacKay is no saint in any other regard. But he is a cool dude.
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Jun 7, 2013 18:45
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THC posted:gently caress Peter MacKay. Pretty much this. If it wasn't for his father Elmer, he wouldn't be elected. Edit: It, not out! SpannerX fucked around with this message at 23:41 on Jun 7, 2013 |
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Jun 7, 2013 18:50
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This was just the worst. 
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Jun 7, 2013 19:00
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SpannerX posted:Pretty much this. If out wasn't for his father, he wouldn't be elected. So, McKay is now my leader?
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Jun 7, 2013 19:05
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